Jump to content

BVB Bielsa inspired tactics help me!!!


Recommended Posts

After 22 games in my first season in fm20 I am 10-6-6 and in 6th place in the Bundesliga. i have been trying to patiently tweak this tactic all season without losing the original intention to emulate Bielsa's philosophies. I am trying to incorporate an enganche and inverted wingbacks into a high energy, high possession, high chance creation side. I initially wanted to use a halfback after watching Kalvin Phillips success but an anchor man seems to fit that role better in game. I average 47% possession in the Bundesliga- 15th, but the third highest chances created with 63 and the most goals with 43 (12 from dead ball situations). I'm reluctant to lower my tempo in order to increase my possession because I don't feel thats the way I want to play. but logically I know it will take some time for my support players to join the attack from deep positions (Brandt my enganche drops very deep when out of possession for some reason leaving Haaland on an island).

Defensively I've allowed 30 goals which is 9th in the league which is a concern but largely to be expected.

Screen Shot 2020-12-09 at 12.11.14 AM.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

my shots seem to be coming from the byline or from a distance. Counter attacks are dribbled forward and passed back. I'm losing multiple games 4-2. Main problem seems to be Enganche not creating chances and wide players (wingers and fullbacks) never getting the ball into the box. If you want to see any particular analysis screenshots lemme know!

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, reggerbob said:

After 22 games in my first season in fm20 I am 10-6-6 and in 6th place in the Bundesliga. i have been trying to patiently tweak this tactic all season without losing the original intention to emulate Bielsa's philosophies. I am trying to incorporate an enganche and inverted wingbacks into a high energy, high possession, high chance creation side. I initially wanted to use a halfback after watching Kalvin Phillips success but an anchor man seems to fit that role better in game. I average 47% possession in the Bundesliga- 15th, but the third highest chances created with 63 and the most goals with 43 (12 from dead ball situations). I'm reluctant to lower my tempo in order to increase my possession because I don't feel thats the way I want to play. but logically I know it will take some time for my support players to join the attack from deep positions (Brandt my enganche drops very deep when out of possession for some reason leaving Haaland on an island).

Defensively I've allowed 30 goals which is 9th in the league which is a concern but largely to be expected.

Screen Shot 2020-12-09 at 12.11.14 AM.png

I don't know how Bielsa's teams generally play, so I'm not sure if this is an instruction that you desperately want to keep. But the one that sticks out for me the most is 'regroup'. Everything else about the tactic suggests that you want to win the ball quickly, and high up the pitch, and then either immediately counter (the 'counter' instruction), or if there is no opportunity for the counter, keep the ball patiently and wait for a chance.

'Regroup' seems to be the exact opposite of what you want from the team.

Think about what you are telling the team to do by regrouping. You are essentially saying 'get back into formation .' While your formation has two DMs, it also has four players in the AM strata or above. They probably are not going to get back into a defensive shape especially well. To make matters worse, the team is playing a higher line with an already positive mentality. AND you then also tell the team to close down extremely urgently. So, you are saying to your players:

Step 1: Get back into a fairly attacking defensive shape;

Step 2: Hold your position, but very high up the pitch; and

Step 3: Immediately break your shape by closing down extremely urgently.

'Counter press' might sound like it would be more risky, but I think it would make so much more sense in the context of your tactic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So since you mentioned Kalvin Phillips I'll assume you are trying to get closer to what he is doing at Leed's over what he did with Chile..  I plan on doing a much longer write up when I get everything sorted but this will get you a lot closer to the way Leed's play over what you have:

image.png.0420df6ce2be56aca9b9b56495ef2d3b.png

Relevant PIs:

T-A - Hold Up Ball

CM-S - This is how you create the "Enganche" - Take More Risks, Dribble More, Shoot Less, Get Forward, Roam From Position, Move Into Channels, Close Down More

WM-S - Cross Less Often, Dribble More, Get Forward

BPD-D - Close Down More

FB-S (both) - Cross from Deep, Get Forward, Stay Wider

 

Bielsa's core shape is the 3-3-1-3 and he either plays with a back 3 to start if the other team lines up in a 2 striker or he plays the 4-1-4-1 we see with Leed's that turns into a 3-3-1-3 in attack.  Quick combos and recycling only to switch the point of attack.  Now I will say you need some serious players to implement this system and even now my Chelsea squad is in what I call phase 1 of being able to play this.. eventually my goal is to get to a Very Attacking mentality.. but the above creates not only some beautiful football but also gets pretty close to how Leed's plays.  More to come on the above but that should get you started.. if you find your team makes tons of stupid decisions lower the mentality and raise the tempo as that should help with teams that don't have the mentals to play at attacking mentality.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, reggerbob said:

my shots seem to be coming from the byline or from a distance. Counter attacks are dribbled forward and passed back. I'm losing multiple games 4-2. Main problem seems to be Enganche not creating chances and wide players (wingers and fullbacks) never getting the ball into the box. If you want to see any particular analysis screenshots lemme know!

This means your creators and attackers can't find space and lose the ball in transition because you can't move the ball safely into the back of the net. Although I'm still on FM20, I think following basic principles of football will never change so let's look at your tactic. AF(A) is a really good role for a low-block counter-attacking tactic but you want to play a high-block so a CF(A) or PF(A) is a good choice and you will still create the depth you need by occupying the CBs. Your right flank will help distracting the defenders from coming to the middle creating space for your enganche but your left side is too aggressive and reducing space for your enganche and your attackers to operate so I suggest you move your DMs to CM strata and make both of them a CM(D). What about the left flank? Well, we created the depth we need for enganche to operate but still you have an IWBS and IWS going inside so let's make them a simple IF(S) and WB(S). Now, your system overloads the flanks and gives lots of space to your enganche to operate.

When it comes to your team instructions, consider removing lower tempo, Your enganche has the space now with the changes I suggested and now playing with a standard tempo will help us prise open a stubborn defence. Also definitely remove regroup-it' s an instruction you use when you play with a weaker team and try to hit the other side on the counter and add counter-press. Finally, with regard to your team instructions,  Higher DL, Higher LOE will suffice here but you should instruct your fbs to close down more to win the ball around the halfway line and quickly transition to attack as well as OI ing the opponents backline ( close down more). So your tactic will look like this:

                                                  CF(A)/PF(A)

IF(S)(close down more)             ENG             W(S)(close down more)

                                                CM(D) CM(D)             

 

                                  WB(S)  CD(D) BPD(D) IWB(A)

                                                     SK(S)

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Kharza_FM said:

So since you mentioned Kalvin Phillips I'll assume you are trying to get closer to what he is doing at Leed's over what he did with Chile.

I've mostly watched Bielsa at Leeds, which is why I tried to use regroup. Watching 8 players quickly track back to snuff out counter attacks is unique and it seems to me only the two players closest to the ball put pressure on while the rest of the team tries to create solidity. However I have been reading about Bielsa's career and enganche and IWBs seems to be a mainstay. My goal with the IWBs is to replace the Segundo Volante when he goes forward and to offer more penetrating runs on the other side. So one will be another DM while the other I want as a Box-Box or mezzala type runner. The wide attacking players for Bielsa create chances both by whipping the ball into the box from deep and from the byline while also cutting in and either shooting or slotting in a deep runner. I want to achieve this versatility but using team instructions usually has them do one or the other at a higher rate than I want. With all these players making forward runs the Enganche should be a constant option to pass to then run off of Defensively the back three of Witsel/Phillips  and CBs hold their ground against counters long enough for the team to get back and recover the ball.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless they have changed it IWB-s automatically function as normal wing back if you play someone in the DM position on their side so the movement you are looking for isn't possible with a 4-2-3-1 deep, you would need to move your DMs to the CM line for it to work.

Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, WhyMe said:

Unless they have changed it IWB-s automatically function as normal wing back if you play someone in the DM position on their side so the movement you are looking for isn't possible with a 4-2-3-1 deep, you would need to move your DMs to the CM line for it to work.

with the segundo volante pushing up I've seen the IWBs tuck inside. when the volante is deeper they go wide

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, reggerbob said:

I've mostly watched Bielsa at Leeds, which is why I tried to use regroup. Watching 8 players quickly track back to snuff out counter attacks is unique and it seems to me only the two players closest to the ball put pressure on while the rest of the team tries to create solidity. However I have been reading about Bielsa's career and enganche and IWBs seems to be a mainstay. My goal with the IWBs is to replace the Segundo Volante when he goes forward and to offer more penetrating runs on the other side. So one will be another DM while the other I want as a Box-Box or mezzala type runner. The wide attacking players for Bielsa create chances both by whipping the ball into the box from deep and from the byline while also cutting in and either shooting or slotting in a deep runner. I want to achieve this versatility but using team instructions usually has them do one or the other at a higher rate than I want. With all these players making forward runs the Enganche should be a constant option to pass to then run off of Defensively the back three of Witsel/Phillips  and CBs hold their ground against counters long enough for the team to get back and recover the ball.

Listen you can replicate what you want but Leed's does not regroup.. they are a high pressing counter pressing team.  They immediately put pressure on the ball when they lose it because they get caught out on the counter if they don't because of the way they play.  And again the shape they use is either a 3-3-1-3 or 4-1-4-1 and there is no segundo volante in the mix.  Kalvin Phillips is a DLP but I use the HB role in FM because you need to get the 3 man build out that they use when building out of the back and I just make sure my HB has PPMs like come deep, dictate tempo, look to switch, etc.  The reason you see this crazy regroup is because they literally man mark all over the field so that is them tracking their marker (which I didn't go so far to implement but I do generally go with individual man marking assignments for the central midfielders.  Everything about there game is high tempo from attacking to defending.  Their tempo is at max when they move the ball around and it is 1-2s and up back and throughs all day long.  They quickly look to switch the point of attack and that's when they will recycle possession but otherwise it's pedal to the floor tempo wise.  In build out the CBs split out and Kalvin drops to create a 3 with usually Klich dropping and the other midfielder pushing high into that enganche role with the fullbacks high and wide creating the 3-3 shape in build out.  If anything a CWB-Su is probably the most ideal role but it has so many hardcoded PIs that I've found tweaking the stock FB role with PIs does a much better job of it.  So far Positive mentality, shorter passing, and maxed out tempo has done the best at recreating the attacking movements without sacrificing possession.  You also pretty much need every outfield player except CBs and GK with the plays 1-2 PPM.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey,

I've also been working on a Bielsa style setup. I think it is hard to enter into the engine since it has no template - but I seem to be getting results playing with pressing and marking instructions. I'm using more urgent/extremely urgent pressing as my general team tactic, definitely use counter-press and counter too.

Individual instructions are more complex than I usually like to do, but I guess that fits Bielsa's style too. I have two loose units of players. Players who are more attacking and have higher workrate I'm asking to press more if the option is available. Often that means one or two of them press at a time - starting with 1-2 forwards counter-pressing quite high up. Players with high marking, concentration, positioning I am asking to "mark opponent tightly" and expressly tell them to press as little as possible (These are the 8 who track back and regroup when we watch Leeds). Who gets assigned to what depends on opposition shape and tactics - but CBs and DM almost always mark, Fullbacks (I'm 4-4-2) usually mark, strikers always press. Each match I tweak the markers so that the specific threats are dealt with.

Haven't perfected it yet but I feel like that is the loose setup to get the combination of a few players pressing really hard while the rest hang back in a shape and wait for the desperate, direct balls that result from the pressure.

Edited by REMNZ
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...