Improve my Tiki Taka in Benfica FM21

[vogado86]

Hello,

I'm starting my classic save with Benfica. In this FM edition i want to play a Tiki Taka style and i made some modifications.

Any tips to improve my Tiki Taka?

[ozilthegunner]

One potential problem I see is the WBs on the right. With the Winger on support ahead and the Mez(a), you may only need something like a FB(s) to provide support and then he'd provide better defensive cover. I normally think about a WBs behind either a Winger on attack (since he'll get to the byline) or behind someone cutting in (like the combo you have on the left)

[dcu4life]

It looks pretty good to me. Agree with the previous commenter's point about the right fullback. The other thing that sticks out to me is the lower tempo instruction. The tactic might work great as is, but tiki-taka is very high tempo with quick passes, so if you're looking to recreate a tiki-taka style realistically I think the appropriate instruction is higher tempo or much higher tempo. 

[ozilthegunner]

8 minutes ago, dcu4life said:

It looks pretty good to me. Agree with the previous commenter's point about the right fullback. The other thing that sticks out to me is the lower tempo instruction. The tactic might work great as is, but tiki-taka is very high tempo with quick passes, so if you're looking to recreate a tiki-taka style realistically I think the appropriate instruction is higher tempo or much higher tempo. 

Tempo affects passing range (and vice versa), so a higher tempo will lead to more long range passes, which is the opposite of tiki-taka. It is true that at least some of the passing is supposed to be quick, to suck in defenders before moving the ball on, but for the most part the team needs to be patient and so lower tempo is generally preferable for this style. If the aim is much more about pure possession, then lower mentality is better. And then you have the option, in game, to raise the tempo if your players aren't making progress

[vogado86]

Thanks for the help, i'm gonna make the suggest change on the right flank.

What to you think to remove the RPM and put the BBM?

[ozilthegunner]

1 hour ago, vogado86 said:

Thanks for the help, i'm gonna make the suggest change on the right flank.

What to you think to remove the RPM and put the BBM?

I personally really like the RPM as a role (even though I am currently not using one). In your case, though, you have a DLP in the DM slot, so a second playmaker, especially so close to each other, could slow you down more than you like. Some people like the dynamic that happens in that situation, some don't. Certainly, a BBM would make it more likely most action came through your DLP than may be the case with the RPM.

However, an RPM is certainly going to be more involved with the build-up and passing than a BBM, overall. And so, if you are going tiki-taka, perhaps the RPM is better

[Luizinho]

3 hours ago, ozilthegunner said:

Tempo affects passing range (and vice versa), so a higher tempo will lead to more long range passes, which is the opposite of tiki-taka.

Where have you read this?

[ozilthegunner]

27 minutes ago, Luizinho said:

Where have you read this?

Well, you can see it... set passing range to 'much shorter' and it'll change the tempo to something like 'slightly lower' without you touching it at all. But plenty of others say it on all sorts of tactical discussions. 

The relationship between the two (along with how Work Ball into Box effectively says to slow the tempo in the final third) is what often leads to people sort of 'over-cooking' their tactics by dropping everything and turning on WBIB. So, often the advice is to pull back a bit

More generally, 'tempo' is just about how quickly your team looks to move the ball forward and attempt to get it in the goal... so a higher tempo means 'move it forward more quickly' which can often translate into 'pass it longer'

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Tempo can manifest itself that way, but not necessarily. You're ultimately telling your players to spend less time on the ball before moving it on to another. If your players have poor decision making, anticipation and off the ball (as an example), then yes, playing at a higher tempo can result in more direct or longer passes. Same again if your formation, roles and duties are not set up in a way that properly takes advantage of it. What you're describing doesn't have to be true of tempo at all (although the higher you go, the harder it will be avoid these things) and is very possibly a knock on effect of your chosen mentality (mentality = risk taking. risk taking = opting for lower percentage passes more often).

Standard tempo is perfectly fine when playing tiki taka or possession system in general if you have the players of required quality to do it. If not, then yeah, a lower tempo will be preferred for keeping possession.

[ozilthegunner]

11 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Tempo can manifest itself that way, but not necessarily. You're ultimately telling your players to spend less time on the ball before moving it on to another. If your players have poor decision making, anticipation and off the ball (as an example), then yes, playing at a higher tempo can result in more direct or longer passes. Same again if your formation, roles and duties are not set up in a way that properly takes advantage of it. What you're describing doesn't have to be true of tempo at all (although the higher you go, the harder it will be avoid these things) and is very possibly a knock on effect of your chosen mentality (mentality = risk taking. risk taking = opting for lower percentage passes more often).

Standard tempo is perfectly fine when playing tiki taka or possession system in general if you have the players of required quality to do it. If not, then yeah, a lower tempo will be preferred for keeping possession.

Fair enough, thanks for that. I didn't mean to imply there was a constant direct connection such that any changes in tempo necessarily affect passing, but rather there is a connection in general that can, at least sometimes, show up - particularly at extremes (much shorter/longer passing, much lower/higher tempo)

I do appreciate the link you drew between mentality and tempo and how that can explain the passing distance issue. I had typically been thinking of mentality as more immediately related to tempo (albeit in different ways in different parts of the field) rather than as about risk-taking with passes (even though I know mentality affects risk taking). Helps to see various ways to link these 3 things - mentality, tempo, passing range - to achieve various ends