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FM21.2 UPDATE. Counter Attacking 352. Liverpool 107 points +107 Goal Difference (135 league goals). Stockport back to back promotions.


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FM21.2 UPDATE. Counter Attacking 352.– Liverpool 107 points - +107 Goal Difference (135 league goals). Stockport back to back promotions.

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UPDATE 21.2

A slight tweak to the formation moving the AMC back to a DLP in the DM position. Tweaked player roles and team instructions, not much but enough to get us back to where we were pre-update, if not better.

LIVERPOOL

This result was obtained during 'holiday mode', whist there is as much as a 15 point variance when repeating tests and this result is towards the top of the scale, repeat runs routinely achieved 100 points/100 goal difference. This consistent high return would normally indicate we are onto a winner.

STOCKPORT 

This is my main save so the result was achieved via normal play. Whilst not a very impressive points total, as i'm doing an Academy Challenge this is achieved with original non-league starting squad supplemented by a couple of youngsters, in that context its very good. (we are holding our own in League 1 now with a non-league squad).

 

Advanced Forward
We feel we are now defensively sound to the extent we can absolve our strikers of pretty much all defensive responsibilities outside of closing down the keeper. This gives us 2 out balls at all times making us very dangerous on the Counter attack, often we will have 2 on 3 or 2 on 2 situations during which our agile Strikers have the upper hand versus clumsy central defenders.  


Highly mobile, agile runner/dribblers are favoured here.


Look for;
Acceleration
Off the Ball
Dribbling
Technique
Finishing  
    

Mezzala 
With the security of a defensive midfielder and 3 centre backs behind them, our central midfielders have licence to go and cause havoc. The Mezzala role encourages some width in their play which means easy link up with the Wingbacks, often with the Wingbacks cutting inside them creating very unpredictable patterns of play which are difficult to defend against. 


Look for;
Passing 
Vision 
Off the ball 
Flair 


Inverted Wingback 
The addition of these roles are a god send to someone like me who likes to focus play through the middle and create central overloads, having said that, they do mix up play often staying fairly wide, especially if you don’t play with inverted feet. However, when play is building on one flank, the opposing Wingback will come narrow and can attack the far post for goals and assists.
To invert or not to invert, keeping a left footer on the left and a right footer on the right will slightly tone down the tendency to come inside, this is my current preferred option to keep variety in our attacks and retain some threat from wide areas. However, the purest form of the tactic would see a left footer on the right and a right footer on the left seeing them cut inside more often with more through balls and less crosses. I likely will explore this more as my save progresses, but either way is good or indeed a mixture of one inverted foot and one natural foot.
This role requires a blend of both attacking and defensive qualities underpinned by a good engine.

Look for;
Stamina
Work rate
Passing 
Dribbling

 

Deep Lying Playmaker

Responsible for breaking up play as well as instigating attacks, our man is a key cog in the wheel. Assisting greatly in playing out from the back, with space and time on the ball he should have a range of passing options open to him, good vision and passing will see him picking out some longer and potentially very dangerous passes. If we can layer on some good defensive qualities we have the ideal player for this role.

Look for;

Passing

Vision 

Decisions 

Positioning 

  

Centre Backs      
Employing 3 central defenders makes us very strong at set pieces, the right centre back in particular will be on the end of a lot of set pieces, I’d put your best Header in this spot.
Beyond that, nothing out of the ordinary are required, just get the best defenders you can. Good headers are a must, pace is always welcome, a good passer is the icing on the cake.

Prioritise
Marking
Tackling
Jumping Reach 
Positioning 

Goal Keeper
Again, no surprises here. We can go for traditional shot stoppers, world class distribution is not required.
Just ensure they are good at one on one’s and are good in the air.
Aerial Ability
One on One’s
Reflexes 
Handling

FAQ’s
Its Attacking not Counter Attacking?
Counter attacking, as a mentality has been removed from the game. A counter attack triggers on any mentality when certain conditions are met, for example, when there is only X number of defenders between the ball and our opponents goal. Outside of that, the Attacking mentality encourages more direct passing from the back and a higher tempo in more general attacking play, mimicking the counter attacking style.  


You have a high line, I thought counter attacking required a low block?
The high line is employed when we are in possession and attacking ourselves. When out of possession our defensive line drops as appropriate with play. You will see plenty of the ‘low block’, but we are happy to win the ball anywhere. 


Why so many attack duties, surely its unbalanced?
We have at least 8 outfield players behind the ball when defending and an explicit reason for keeping 2 players up the pitch. If the Attacking Midfielder on Attack duty did not get back behind the ball, I would have dropped him down to Support duty, but he does defend diligently even on Attack duty which means he is very aggressive in moving forward during transition which is what we want.  The same reasoning applies to the Wingbacks. We have players on attack duty as they still fulfill their defensive responsibilities well but are quick to transition, exactly what we want.
I would employ more support duties on a possession based system. 

My DMC & Wingbacks get low ratings.
The ratings system was ruined in 21.2. DM and Wingbacks seem to suffer the most, hopefully it will be fixed soon. 

 

Corners & Throw in's - Left side wingback takes left side, Right sided wingback takes right side

No Oi's 

 

 

 

107 +107.fmf

Edited by Mr U Rosler
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15 minutes ago, BcfcRich said:

Going to try this out. 

Who takes corners? 

Any OI's?

It meant to say left wingback takes left sided corners and throw ins, right wingback takes right sided. 

No Oi's 

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  • Mr U Rosler changed the title to FM21 Counter Attacking 3412 designed for the underdog, works for everyone. Fulham 7th into Europe, Liverpool 104 points – Original Squads.
8 hours ago, glenjamin said:

Gonna give it a go!

What changes would you make when you're chasing a goal, and what changes for time wasting?

I just plug and play it at the moment.

Having said that, i've been on the wrong end of a few comebacks, i'd drop the AMC down to DMC when protecting a lead.

i leave it as it is when chasing, we score a lot of goals as it is, any tweaks i've tried made it worse.

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45 minutes ago, NicoRcs67 said:

Hello Mr U Rosler,

sorry for my english, i m french.

i've been following you for 2 years, i like tour tactic.

To have a stronger defense,  did you try?

 

CD co    CD de    CD co

I feel like it s better...

 

I feel the defensive record is good and doesn't need tweaking. 

Cover duty will mess up the offside trap. 

The only change I considered was changing the central CB, to Stopper, but again I couldn't see an issue so I left it. 

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I have very fond memories of your previous tactics from earlier versions, such as Rainmaker, Steel & Silk, and the Doom of Men/Breaker of Chains series. Let's hope this can live up to those high standards. Early signs are promising, with my media prediction of 24th looking laughable as we currently sit in 4th in National League South. It also fits with the formation I was already looking to play, albeit I was using traditional wingbacks and the AM as a playmaker rather than as part of an aggressive press., however if it works, it works....

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Hey mate,

I had a mixed experience with this. With an out matched team in the Vanrama North, it sometimes just created chaos. I only started using it after 13 or so games, so it wasn't a true test.

Many of our games ended in bizarre scorelines. We finished 20th and our striker still managed to score 40 league goals.

The squad I am using is weak, and it seemed this set up just gave enough room for better teams to create enough chances against us to end up coming out on top.

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Been trying this, and found that, with the latest AI iteration, it was defensively vulnerable to the long ball over the top of the back line. Dropping the line back to standard and switching off the offside trap cured most of this, without much adverse impact on attack.

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Finding that discipline is a big concern since the last patch. While being top of the table, we have just set the unenviable record of worst discipline in League 2 with 98 yellows and 6 red - and that's with 10 games to go!

It scores loads, and doesn't concede that many, but the league fines for not controlling the players are really starting to hurt. The midfield duo seem to be worst offenders with 12/13 yellow each for the 1st team starters. I think tackling might need to be a key attribute to try stop these bad tackle.

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1 hour ago, Abaddon879 said:

Finding that discipline is a big concern since the last patch. While being top of the table, we have just set the unenviable record of worst discipline in League 2 with 98 yellows and 6 red - and that's with 10 games to go!

It scores loads, and doesn't concede that many, but the league fines for not controlling the players are really starting to hurt. The midfield duo seem to be worst offenders with 12/13 yellow each for the 1st team starters. I think tackling might need to be a key attribute to try stop these bad tackle.

Not seeing that. 

Do your midfielders have high aggression? 

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8 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

Not seeing that. 

Do your midfielders have high aggression? 

Nope, most are <10, with one at 13. Their tackling is around 7/8/9, so maybe just poor timing.

Have walked the league as a newly promoted team, so overall it still works well, but discipline is a concern for me this season.

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Edited by Abaddon879
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  • Mr U Rosler changed the title to FM21.2 UPDATE. Counter Attacking 352. Liverpool 107 points +107 Goal Difference (135 league goals). Stockport back to back promotions.

Absolutely flying in the league with Man U - using this for plug and play. Top of the league at Xmas but Liverpool have a game in hand and can overtake. Won my CL group although did get battered 4-1 to Juventus away with a CR7 hat trick. SF of the LC v Arenal coming up. Bruno Fernandes is INCREDIBLE in this formation. 

I too am seeing issues with yellow cards, particularly from the defenders and centre midfielders - (Pogba and Van Der Beek) 

Love the tactic overall though, going to abandon this save and try something a bit more challenging (current plan is Cambridge United) - will let you know how I get on. 

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I'm getting very inconsistent results with this. It started out working magic. I think we had 7 wins in 8 games with a Middlesbrough who should be fighting for promotion in the Championship. But since then I've only won 6 in 15 games and we are now looking more like a mid-table team. I will keep at it since I took over Middlesbrough in the middle of the season and have only had a January transfer window. But the players I have should be good enough for play-offs.

Any suggestions?

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1 hour ago, Karnack said:

I'm getting very inconsistent results with this. It started out working magic. I think we had 7 wins in 8 games with a Middlesbrough who should be fighting for promotion in the Championship. But since then I've only won 6 in 15 games and we are now looking more like a mid-table team. I will keep at it since I took over Middlesbrough in the middle of the season and have only had a January transfer window. But the players I have should be good enough for play-offs.

Any suggestions?

It would normally need a preseason to bed in the tactic, but you started well so that can't be the issue. 

Beyond that, it's about keeping morale high when you're winning without drifting into complacency. 

Stick with it, it should come good in the end. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

It would normally need a preseason to bed in the tactic, but you started well so that can't be the issue. 

Beyond that, it's about keeping morale high when you're winning without drifting into complacency. 

Stick with it, it should come good in the end. 

Since I wrote that we have actually started to look like we did in the beginning of my tenure so I will keep at it! Thanks for the tactic, I love the movement from mezzalas

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Definitely something funny going on, as already 8 games into the new season and we top the discipline records with 25 yellows and 2 reds.

I'm wondering if its due to the fact I often use Instant results, rather than playing out the games. Maybe there is something in the match engine that makes bad fouls more likely. I'll play out the next few matches and see if I continue to get similar. I'll also consider dropping the Get Stuck In instruction and see if that helps. Guessing its a combination of the urgent press and physical style, as the players dont have high aggression or dirtiness ratings. 

Weirdly however, despite the constant bookings and suspensions, we are continuing to win...

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Actually turned out to be a better season that early form predicted. I didn't finish the season with the league's worst disciplinary record! Only received 103 yellows and 3 reds this season, so we are getting better.

Considering we are scoring the most and conceding the least in the league, I think I can just about accept this. From what I've seen, they are often a result of the urgent press dragging players out of position and then making slightly rash challenges to recover ground or break up attacks.  Considering we are regularly one of the worst for ball possession, it is to be expected somewhat. 

We made the most successful tackles with 1023, however conceded 807 fouls and only had a tackle success rate of 78%, which was one of the worst in the division.

With our promotion to the Championship now, I will hopefully be able to attract more well-rounded players, and thus reduce the number of fouls and poor tackles.

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1 hour ago, Abaddon879 said:

Actually turned out to be a better season that early form predicted. I didn't finish the season with the league's worst disciplinary record! Only received 103 yellows and 3 reds this season, so we are getting better.

Considering we are scoring the most and conceding the least in the league, I think I can just about accept this. From what I've seen, they are often a result of the urgent press dragging players out of position and then making slightly rash challenges to recover ground or break up attacks.  Considering we are regularly one of the worst for ball possession, it is to be expected somewhat. 

We made the most successful tackles with 1023, however conceded 807 fouls and only had a tackle success rate of 78%, which was one of the worst in the division.

With our promotion to the Championship now, I will hopefully be able to attract more well-rounded players, and thus reduce the number of fouls and poor tackles.

Thanks for the update.

I’m now 26 games into my League 1 campaign, no Red Cards so far, but of course lots of fouls & yellows as we are breaking up play.

 I’m in danger of getting promoted to the Championship, as I’m playing an Academy Challenge I know I won’t be ready to stay up in the Championship for another couple of seasons at least, and that is with my next 2 youth intakes being good. Tempted to sabotage my season to ensure we don’t go up, but that would be against the spirit of the game so I’ll do my best to get up and live with the consequences which runs the risk of me getting sacked when we come back down again, on the plus side we’ll bank £5 million TV money and my players will get a season of Championship Football which will accelerate their progress toward their maximum ability.

I have a feeling we’ll fail in the play offs this year, but go up next which is still a bit early but we’ll have a chance.

In terms of the ill discipline, ‘get stuck in’ is the same as any other team instructions, to employ it the upside has to be bigger than the downside, a plus expected value situation (+EV) in gambling terms. The idea is to find all the team instructions with a +EV, use them all and all those ‘little wins’ add up to give you an edge.

If you feel its not worth it, you could drop it off without too much of a downside.    

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3 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

Thanks for the update.

I’m now 26 games into my League 1 campaign, no Red Cards so far, but of course lots of fouls & yellows as we are breaking up play.

 I’m in danger of getting promoted to the Championship, as I’m playing an Academy Challenge I know I won’t be ready to stay up in the Championship for another couple of seasons at least, and that is with my next 2 youth intakes being good. Tempted to sabotage my season to ensure we don’t go up, but that would be against the spirit of the game so I’ll do my best to get up and live with the consequences which runs the risk of me getting sacked when we come back down again, on the plus side we’ll bank £5 million TV money and my players will get a season of Championship Football which will accelerate their progress toward their maximum ability.

I have a feeling we’ll fail in the play offs this year, but go up next which is still a bit early but we’ll have a chance.

In terms of the ill discipline, ‘get stuck in’ is the same as any other team instructions, to employ it the upside has to be bigger than the downside, a plus expected value situation (+EV) in gambling terms. The idea is to find all the team instructions with a +EV, use them all and all those ‘little wins’ add up to give you an edge.

If you feel its not worth it, you could drop it off without too much of a downside.    

I'll see how the summer transfer acquisitions go. As we've now had five back-to-back promotions, our club reputation is well below where it needs to be to attract the required level of player, or I have to pay inflated wages to secure their signatures. I had expected us to struggle with the progression through the leagues, but this tactic has made them somewhat easy, despite a very small squad and limited ability outside the first eleven.

I find myself in a similar position to you, where I could have done with an extra year spent in one of the leagues so that my reputation and squad ability could catch up. Instead I am faced with another rebuild to remain competitive next season. I  fully expect next season to be our toughest yet, with the step up from League One to Championship. With a tough battle ahead, I would not be surprised to see the number of cards to actually increase next season, as we will be on the back foot even more. As long as we start well though, I am confident this will keep us up.

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@Mr U Rosler

Are you still using the same training techniques you created a few years back or have you updated them?  I think it was FM19 you made them and I still use them myself but if you have better would be interested.

I've used the tactic in Scotland with Albion Rovers and got them up to the Championship in 3 years with back to back league wins. 

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10 minutes ago, Pompeyboyz said:

@Mr U Rosler

Are you still using the same training techniques you created a few years back or have you updated them?  I think it was FM19 you made them and I still use them myself but if you have better would be interested.

I've used the tactic in Scotland with Albion Rovers and got them up to the Championship in 3 years with back to back league wins. 

I have new training schedules, looks like i'll be on furlough so will have time to put them up over the next day or 2.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Always love your tactics Rosler. After 200 episodes with Gateshead using your plug and play last season, decided to use this one in a plug and play series to see where in the world it takes us starting at Farsley Celtic. I'm now with Arbroath and are just promoted to the Scottish Premiership!

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU8Ihfeh1X_-vmRTGlCAFmw

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On 04/01/2021 at 21:31, Mr U Rosler said:

I have new training schedules, looks like i'll be on furlough so will have time to put them up over the next day or 2.

hi rosler 

have you managed to get the training schedules sorted yet and also could you please advise what would be the individual training for each of position to get there attributes up ie Gk CB DLP IWB Mezz and AF look forward to hear from you soon.

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36 minutes ago, mjcr3529 said:

Hi Rosler, 

Hope you are well mate, does this tactic work on the newest update?

Thanks

Chris

 

Its been working OK for me, im sitting around 12th with sunderland 1st season in the prem but form is can be up and down. Won 4 in a row and havnt won in my last 8, in March and only kept 1 clean sheet all season

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3 hours ago, stainyg said:

Its been working OK for me, im sitting around 12th with sunderland 1st season in the prem but form is can be up and down. Won 4 in a row and havnt won in my last 8, in March and only kept 1 clean sheet all season

Thanks for that, I suppose the inconsistent form could be put down to it being the first  season, should fair better in the second season if it keeps you up

 

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Loving this formation – on track for back-to-back promotions. Really creative, the way it plays.

One thing I've noticed in away games (I'm Cambridge in League One) is that if I don't have a tall striker upfront, I end up with maybe 30-35% possession. Having two players who are quick and agile doesn't seem to work for me at all – although it does at home. Anyone else spotted this?

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Just finished my first season with Bolton.

Finished champions with 91 points, a few results towards the end of the season after gaining automatic promotion stopped me from getting near the 100 point mark.

I also won the Papa John Trophy as well, beating Hull 3-0 in the Final!!

 

  • No OI
  • No shouts used during the game
  • Assistant manager was doing the team talks

A true plug and play tactic, really enjoyed the football as well.

 

Onto league one :)

 

 

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Edited by mjcr3529
Forgot to add the fact I won the Papa John Trophy to do the double
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I will keep posting to this tactic, as I feel it does not get the recognition it deserves

Second season finished with Bolton.

Finished 2nd and won automatic promotion to the Championship

 

  • No OI
  • No shouts used during the game
  • Assistant manager was doing the team talks

Onto the next season :-)

 

 

 

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Ive been using this in the Scottish Premier with Partick Thistle.

First 6 months was hit and miss but mainly hit, 2nd season was better and after Christmas was very very good.

Finished 3rd on Goal difference, 

 

Just need to improve the squad a bit and aim for the title next season.

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