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4213 Tactical Advise


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Hey guys,

first, I want to apologize if my actual questions are too broad. I´m still rather amateur in tactic creation, plug-n-play was always my way. I do have image of playstyle I want to achieve in my head, but it is hard to put it into words. I found lot of amazing threads here, lot of them about total footbal, possession, tiki-taka. Less of them are about low block or soak and counter. But none of them (or very little) is about system I want to achieve.

Being younger I was amazed of two teams and one manager - Chelsea, Real Madrid and Mourinho. Not so many like Mourinho "anti-football", but as a pure pragmatism lover, I adore it. Watching Real Madrid was a pure joy for me, just as seeing their foes getting "Ronaldoed". 

 

Based on information above, I set myself quite a mission:

- Use a 4213 wide with 2DM, as I feel it is decent bottom-heavy formation and rather unusual, so another challenge

- Use Segundo Volante and Raumdeuter, mainly because I am fascinated with these two roles. SV being my main runner, and Raumdeuter my main goalscoarer (Cristiano Ronaldo-esque role)

- Play defensively solid with a strong direct counter-attacking potential as my main style

- Have formation that can be changed if main style does not work, chasing a goal, or going against pure park-the-bus

 

Not all of these have to be met and can be adapted, if it is pure nonsense. Last point seems to me very important, because I plan to play Chelsea longterm save, so generally I will be a stronger side.

I came up with this:

---------------- TM-S ----------------

--- RMD-A --------------- IW-A ---

----------------- AP-A ----------------

------- HB-D --------- SV-S --------

WB-S --- CD-D --- BPD-D --- FB-S

---------------- GK-D ----------------

In Chelsea case (I really want to play both Werner and Abraham together :-)):

Abraham

Werner, Ziyech

Havertz

Kante, Mount

Chilwell, Zouma, Silva, James

Mendy

 

I am unsure of what kind of TIs and PIs should I use. I can imagine playing on positive, high DL, standard or low LOE, early crosses pass into space, higher tempo, direct passes, narrow defending? As for PIs, should I use split block, centre to TM? And how to set up my other varianton of tactic, that can be used if things are not exactly working (more attacking variantons, maybe with a little bit of possession)?

I will be very grateful to everyone for their help, advise or opinion. 

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I'll wait to see what other have to say, however, you will be playing as Chelsea so I'm not sure a counter attacking style would work for you because if I'm not mistaken the game works with reputation so because you are Chelsea your reputation is high so most teams would play defensively against you and counter attacking football only works when you are being attacked. It would be good style against the Liverpools and Man City but I'd suggest you also work on another style where you control the game.

You can read this; It might give you an idea of how to set up your low block 

Edited by DarJ
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27 minutes ago, DarJ said:

I'll wait to see what other have to say, however, you will be playing as Chelsea so I'm not sure a counter attacking style would work for you because if I'm not mistaken the game works with reputation so because you are Chelsea your reputation is high so most teams would play defensively against you and counter attacking football only works when you are being attacked. It would be good style against the Liverpools and Man City but I'd suggest you also work on another style where you control the game.

You can read this; It might give you an idea of how to set up your low block 

 

Thank you for your reply!

I agree with you, defensive opponents might be a struggle. Counter-attacking style would be best used against higher reputation teams (basically no one in two years of save) or similar reputation teams in away games (PL top 6 basically). But I can imagine scenario, where in most games I can get early lead using other attacking style and THEN switch to soak and counter. That could punish my opponent as even smallest reputation side would need to attack, if they do not, I win. Basically I want to score a goal -> switch to counter attack -> score more goals, no matter of opossition reputation. 

Hope it makes at least a little bit sense. Or if it does not or it is too ambitious, please tell me.

And thanks for that other topic, I will have a look.

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I've played FM20 & 21 with high rep teams & counter attacked very effectively

Three things I use is an Attacking team mentality, lots of support roles & fast players  

Attacking mentality, when we win the ball deep, we look to attack fast & break forward before the opposition can get back into shape. You can catch then out further up the pitch too with fast transitions. Lower mentalities I found a bit  "timid" & Attacking was the most effective 

Support roles so players would be looking to get back & defend sooner rather than later & play the ball forward rather than be in it for themselves  

Pace, effective dribblers can get the ball up field fast

Looking at your roles, I don't think a RMD(A) would be very effective on the counter, he won't be fussed about getting back to defend the flank, I'd think the role would be more effective in a possession type tactic. A support role that runs on the ball might be in line with the tactic     

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18 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I've played FM20 & 21 with high rep teams & counter attacked very effectively

Three things I use is an Attacking team mentality, lots of support roles & fast players  

Attacking mentality, when we win the ball deep, we look to attack fast & break forward before the opposition can get back into shape. You can catch then out further up the pitch too with fast transitions. Lower mentalities I found a bit  "timid" & Attacking was the most effective 

Support roles so players would be looking to get back & defend sooner rather than later & play the ball forward rather than be in it for themselves  

Pace, effective dribblers can get the ball up field fast

Looking at your roles, I don't think a RMD(A) would be very effective on the counter, he won't be fussed about getting back to defend the flank, I'd think the role would be more effective in a possession type tactic. A support role that runs on the ball might be in line with the tactic     

 

Well that is reassuring :-) Would love to see one of those.

As for RMD(A) - idea behind this was to make it my highest scoring position, basically C. Ronaldo (well Timo Werner in my case, but there are some familiarities). Creative players AP, SV and fullbacks sending trough balls, IW helping with distraction and passing, strong target man to draw out defenders, RMD scoring goals.

Do you think that IF(s) could do the same thing, or should I try to make something with two strikers, maybe asymetric? 

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13 minutes ago, tobula321 said:

Do you think that IF(s) could do the same thing, or should I try to make something with two strikers, maybe asymetric? 

I'm not sure to be honest, I've never tried it but I can't see why you can't have a RMD(A) as your main threat, I'd change a few roles though to start with

Instead of a TM(S) (he'll become a target for your team to play balls to & hold up the ball) a DLF(S) might be better, the DLF(S) will drop deeper allowing your RMD(A) to be the main focal point. Even a F(9) might be ideal here 

Instead of the IW(A) change to an IW(S) so he's more inclined to defend & supply the RMD(A) (his inwhipping crosses & through balls could be a good source of goals)

Should be a lot of fun to try out  

Edited by Johnny Ace
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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

I'm not sure to be honest, I've never tried it but I can't see why you can't have a RMD(A) as your main threat, I'd change a few roles though to start with

Instead of a TM(S) (he'll become a target for your team to play balls to & hold up the ball) a DLF(S) might be better, the DLF(S) will drop deeper allowing your RMD(A) to be the main focal point. Even a F(9) might be ideal here 

Instead of the IW(A) change to an IW(S) so he's more inclined to defend & supply the RMD(A) (his inwhipping crosses & through balls could be a good source of goals)

Should be a lot of fun to try out  

Cool! Those sounds reasonable. Can you help with little bit more, since you have that experience with high rep team and counter style?

---------------- DLF-S ---------------

--- RMD-A --------------- IW-S ---

----------------- AP-A ----------------

------- HB-D --------- SV-S --------

WB-S --- CD-D --- BPD-D --- FB-S

---------------- GK-D ----------------

Here, I am not sure what to do with my fullbacks, maybe changing right one to FB-A or WB-S. 

Im gonna try attacking mentality. What about TIs? I am thinking this:

  • Higher DL + standard LOE (or less to be more compact?)
  • Use offside trap
  • Force them inside, since I want to hit them on counter through flanks
  • Regroup + counter
  • Distribute quickly + distribute to fullbacks
  • Fairly narrow width
  • Pass into space?
  • Over/underlaps im very unsure of, maybe its too much on attacking mentality?
  • More direct passing + much higher tempo
  • Hit early crosses

And as for PIs, thats where I simply have no idea. Maybe I will try experiment with them.

 

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4 minutes ago, tobula321 said:

Here, I am not sure what to do with my fullbacks, maybe changing right one to FB-A or WB-S. 

Im gonna try attacking mentality. What about TIs? I am thinking this:

  • Higher DL + standard LOE (or less to be more compact?)
  • Use offside trap
  • Force them inside, since I want to hit them on counter through flanks
  • Regroup + counter
  • Distribute quickly + distribute to fullbacks
  • Fairly narrow width
  • Pass into space?
  • Over/underlaps im very unsure of, maybe its too much on attacking mentality?
  • More direct passing + much higher tempo
  • Hit early crosses

And as for PIs, thats where I simply have no idea. Maybe I will try experiment with them.

 

Your fullbacks looks fine, though I do like to use wingbacks when not using a winger, just try & balance out the on the ball runners & the non runners as you have a few on the ball runners as it is. More on the ball runners = more chance of them losing the ball 

Yeah, try Attacking mentality then can always move down to Positive if need be

  • Higher DL + standard LOE (or less to be more compact?) - can't see any reason why not
  • Use offside trap - up to you, I'd think Chelsea would have good enough mentals & the pace to deal with balls over the top 
  • Force them inside, since I want to hit them on counter through flanks - sounds like a plan
  • Regroup + counter - I wouldn't bother with Regroup, it's a "safe" instruction, doesn't really sit well with me when you're on an Attacking mentality  
  • Distribute quickly + distribute to fullbacks - yeah, fine
  • Fairly narrow width - not sure that's needed if you're playing more direct 
  • Pass into space? - don't think that's needed, up to you, again it's a possession risk. AP & DLF will already be looking to make risky passes 
  • Over/underlaps im very unsure of, maybe its too much on attacking mentality? - Under/overlaps affect your wide players mentality, I wouldn't touch this yet 
  • More direct passing + much higher tempo - Attacking is quite direct & high tempo as it is, you probably won't need to touch these
  • Hit early crosses - they should be early enough with your roles

Try to start off with less TI's rather than more, you don't have to use all of the options, add some situationally in game rather than starting with them . Try it out, see how it goes. Are you attacking well? Defending well? Countering when you can? Then look to change things if you feel the need

PI's I wouldn't bother with either, your roles have plenty of PIs so see how it plays out first before tinkering with those 

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