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Game became too easy; we are playing online (24 players on 3 leagues with lower teams) and after 10 matches it already became a game against who uses the most bugged tactic, can find Bologna 1st in Serie A with 9 wins and 1 draw, low level striker scoring 15 goals and so on.

The fact that these tactics came out 1 week after the game distribution doesn't go on your favour too, last years people found them after months...

Until few years ago the fun was to find a balanced tactic adjusting players and instructions, now just have to use one of these bugged tactis to win, we have Bologna first in Serie A, Werder Bremen in Bundesliga with 3-4 humans on first positions without buying any big player.

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26 minutes ago, broddoi said:

Game became too easy; we are playing online (24 players on 3 leagues with lower teams) and after 10 matches it already became a game against who uses the most bugged tactic, can find Bologna 1st in Serie A with 9 wins and 1 draw, low level striker scoring 15 goals and so on.

The fact that these tactics came out 1 week after the game distribution doesn't go on your favour too, last years people found them after months...

Until few years ago the fun was to find a balanced tactic adjusting players and instructions, now just have to use one of these bugged tactis to win, we have Bologna first in Serie A, Werder Bremen in Bundesliga with 3-4 humans on first positions without buying any big player.

I judge league positions and statistics after multiple seasons of consistency, not after 10 games, come back when the season is done then complain about how easy the game is.

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1 hour ago, Lawlore said:

I know they were taken over in February, but that still feels off to me. Re-reading it, they were signed after you got them promoted, so OK, there's a bit of cash injection there (which was my initial query). But bringing in one player for almost £5m out of a budget of £9m seems like an absurd strategy, and to be sitting 11th in the Prem with basically the same starting squad seems unusual, considering it's their first-ever season in the Championship.

Correct that was the first signing after promotion. It also was a move made by the DOF. 

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39 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

I judge league positions and statistics after multiple seasons of consistency, not after 10 games, come back when the season is done then complain about how easy the game is.

Same pattern across 3 leagues, this isn't the only save we have and is not different in the other ones. 23 loans on third division from top teams and 2 immediate promotions with unreal stats, no need to continue.

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51 minutes ago, broddoi said:

Same pattern across 3 leagues, this isn't the only save we have and is not different in the other ones. 23 loans on third division from top teams and 2 immediate promotions with unreal stats, no need to continue.

Then show me hard proof, multiple seasons of consistently overperforming teams that really shouldn't be, am not going to just take your word for it after so called 10 games in a league.

It's like your suggesting it should be impossible, like hard coded into the game for Werder Bremen to be top of the league after 10 games, or even dare i say win the bundesliga, i would say it should definitely be possible, cause that's football.

Edited by iAlwaysWin
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Here first and second year, third and second division in Italy. I'm not saying it's impossible, but after 15 matches 3 teams (not just one) that in the best case should be 10th or maybe 8th are overbeating Bayern and Borussia with basically no transfers only because of the tactic is unreal.

In here I had Foggia, my tactic is not from Knap but still a good one, with a roster much better than Monopoli but as you can see I scored less and got more goals. In our online tournament after 15 matches is happening the same thing, and I have no doubts that one of these 3 german teams will be if not winning fighting for the title until the end. 

It shouldn't happen on first year.

1.JPG

2.JPG

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Am not an expert when it comes to the lower divisions in Italy, so i can't say how much out of the normal it is for Monopoli to do so well, i have no idea how much of an overperformance it really is, what i can say is thou you the human manager will always take a bigger advantage of the loan market when compared to the Ai, so maybe that is something Si can have a look at.

You state that 3 unfancied German teams are leading the 2 giants in Bayern and Dortmund in the German League, but you also say the league isn't finshed yet, so things may change. Also luck sometimes plays a part in FM, maybe the league standings would look alot different in a different situation.

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On 08/12/2020 at 23:36, driikk said:

My coaching Reputation was around 5% when at the start I remember that yes, now (almost a month after accepting the job) I'm at 45%. That's barely above two stars.

I don't know what to think  of your case. It's a decent jump though, reputation wise. Still I dunno if 45 % merits Benfica job. My rep skyrocketed after a Slovene league win, so I assumed jobs offer was related to reputation in your case .

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22 minutes ago, The Threadstarter said:

I don't know what to think  of your case. It's a decent jump though, reputation wise. Still I dunno if 45 % merits Benfica job. My rep skyrocketed after a Slovene league win, so I assumed jobs offer was related to reputation in your case .

I agree, 45% is still low for a Benfica job, and too high for what I achieved with that team. I opened a new topic about it and if needed I'll supply the save, but no response so far.

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Will see how easy it truly is. I am managing Cork City.

First Season: Promoted.

Second Season: National title

Third season: President Cup, Cup, soon National title. I am also going to play against Molde in First Round CL. Will see how far I come. Grouprounds would be totally crazy for the current level of players. 

ps. I want those millions!! Money money moneyzzzzz. 

 

Edit: Away: 3 -4 for Molde. Home: 1-0 for Cork City. Bye CL, hello EL. Lets see how that goes. 

Edit: Europe league was fun. 14-0 against Folgore. And then 0-1 for CSKA Sofia and 0-0 home. Perhaps I need another 2 seasons before i can make into the grouprounds CL or EL. 

Conclusion: National Ireland it seems to be really easy. Europe is stronger. Is the game that easy? No. Perhaps if you've a billion-company club or so. 

Edited by RinusFM
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I put Pep on a non league team with Control Possession and they did poorly despite his attributes.

 

I think attacking mentalities are too strong and the other mentalities are weak.

 

Seems to be true as most people use positive or above even if they are the underdogs. Maybe they’ll go balance but rarely does starting a game defensive have any benefit. Hence why the AI isn’t really attacking as they rarely go attacking unless they are the clear favorites.

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How much realism to people really want in a game. In real life i'm a Carlisle fan, i'm 40 next year and in my time supporting them they have bounced mostly between league one and two with 1 season in the conference. If that was to happen in the game it wouldnt be fun, i wouldn't want to play for say 30 seasons like that.

As its a game, i want to manage a team and do better than they would in real life. In my current FM21 save i am managing Lancaster, it took 3 seasons to get out of the Conference North, i'm in my third season in the Conference National challenging for promotion though theres a long way to go. It could take me about 20 season to win the Premiership, maybe 30 to dominate the world, in real life thats not realistic but in a game, its fun and i will have put hundreds of hours into playing it.

In my 5 and a half seasons so far i've found its not easy but its also not really hard, its been a nice balance of improving the team each season with better players, tweaking my tactic, making in game changes to grind out results and managing morale and club atmosphere.

I've not managed a big club from the start for a lot of Football Managers going back even to the Championship Manager games because its always been too easy to manage a good club, sell rubbish players, buy the best players and newgens and easily win, FM21 is no different, its no easier than previous versions, a human manager is always going to be better than an AI manager. I would like to see an improved AI surrounding tactics, signing players etc but even then it would still be easy managing at the top.

You have to remember that its a game, designed to be played by people of all ages, a veteran like myself is always going to be able to succeed no matter how hard they make it, but new players and younger players won't want it to be as hard as i would want it. The difficulty then comes down to how hard you make it yourself, limit how you play if you want a harder challenge but don't complain that you can take a good club, buy the best players, use the best tactics and easily win

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The main issues raised aren't really about realism, or finding ways to handicap yourself to get a semblance of challenge from the game.  There are fundamental flaws with this versions game, some of which make it extremely easy to succeed at.  The AI is way too passive in some people's saves, as this linked thread highlights...

 

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4 hours ago, Weed07 said:

How much realism to people really want in a game. In real life i'm a Carlisle fan, i'm 40 next year and in my time supporting them they have bounced mostly between league one and two with 1 season in the conference. If that was to happen in the game it wouldnt be fun, i wouldn't want to play for say 30 seasons like that.

As its a game, i want to manage a team and do better than they would in real life. In my current FM21 save i am managing Lancaster, it took 3 seasons to get out of the Conference North, i'm in my third season in the Conference National challenging for promotion though theres a long way to go. It could take me about 20 season to win the Premiership, maybe 30 to dominate the world, in real life thats not realistic but in a game, its fun and i will have put hundreds of hours into playing it.

In my 5 and a half seasons so far i've found its not easy but its also not really hard, its been a nice balance of improving the team each season with better players, tweaking my tactic, making in game changes to grind out results and managing morale and club atmosphere.

I've not managed a big club from the start for a lot of Football Managers going back even to the Championship Manager games because its always been too easy to manage a good club, sell rubbish players, buy the best players and newgens and easily win, FM21 is no different, its no easier than previous versions, a human manager is always going to be better than an AI manager. I would like to see an improved AI surrounding tactics, signing players etc but even then it would still be easy managing at the top.

You have to remember that its a game, designed to be played by people of all ages, a veteran like myself is always going to be able to succeed no matter how hard they make it, but new players and younger players won't want it to be as hard as i would want it. The difficulty then comes down to how hard you make it yourself, limit how you play if you want a harder challenge but don't complain that you can take a good club, buy the best players, use the best tactics and easily win

Yes, the transfer market is the core of most human success vs. the AI. FM21 is a tiny bit better at competing for desired targets. I have noticed more competition against my approaches for loan players and other talent, but it's still too easy to find and rate players. If I wanted to make it tougher, though, I could. I could mask attributes and never use the player search page. Once you can summarize players with numbers then it's simply a case of picking the higher numbers, but real life player rating is much more complicated than in the FM world.

I do think FM21 is even easier than usual, though, outside of the transfer market. I am winning many games against teams with talent better than my own, and it's not because I'm doing anything fancy tactically. I like being able to overachieve, but this feels a little too close to pressing the "win" button.

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5 hours ago, Weed07 said:

How much realism to people really want in a game. In real life i'm a Carlisle fan, i'm 40 next year and in my time supporting them they have bounced mostly between league one and two with 1 season in the conference. If that was to happen in the game it wouldnt be fun, i wouldn't want to play for say 30 seasons like that.

As its a game, i want to manage a team and do better than they would in real life. In my current FM21 save i am managing Lancaster, it took 3 seasons to get out of the Conference North, i'm in my third season in the Conference National challenging for promotion though theres a long way to go. It could take me about 20 season to win the Premiership, maybe 30 to dominate the world, in real life thats not realistic but in a game, its fun and i will have put hundreds of hours into playing it.

In my 5 and a half seasons so far i've found its not easy but its also not really hard, its been a nice balance of improving the team each season with better players, tweaking my tactic, making in game changes to grind out results and managing morale and club atmosphere.

I've not managed a big club from the start for a lot of Football Managers going back even to the Championship Manager games because its always been too easy to manage a good club, sell rubbish players, buy the best players and newgens and easily win, FM21 is no different, its no easier than previous versions, a human manager is always going to be better than an AI manager. I would like to see an improved AI surrounding tactics, signing players etc but even then it would still be easy managing at the top.

You have to remember that its a game, designed to be played by people of all ages, a veteran like myself is always going to be able to succeed no matter how hard they make it, but new players and younger players won't want it to be as hard as i would want it. The difficulty then comes down to how hard you make it yourself, limit how you play if you want a harder challenge but don't complain that you can take a good club, buy the best players, use the best tactics and easily win

The Force is strong with this one!!!!

Edited by grade
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This version seems a bit "arcadey" to me.

I play with mdeiocre team by league's standarts and even without going higher than balanced and overpowered gegenpressig I win non-stop, overshoot every opponent for fun and sit first. And oll  that with counterattacking setup. Haven't scored a single setpiece goal but tons of clearances over CDs heads.

Feels like playin on easy mode so far. True power trip

 

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Well I consider my brother a total noob at tactics but he's about to beat the highest points record in his first season! 

Sometimes i watch him play (haven't bought the game yet) and he plays by instinct having no actual idea about role diferenced and just watches key moments. 

So ye he's pretty hooked to it because he's being very successful and greatly over achieving while playing randomly. It's a bit demoralising for someone who really likes the tactical aspect of the game but well, let's see the next patch.. 

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Agree with all the suggestions above.

One of my great loves of the game in the past was scraping survival, or at least struggling in mediocrity, for a while, even with a engine-favoured tactic, while I dig up and developed players and eventually climbed up the leagues. Sure, in many ways it was inevitable- harvest newgens, and eventually you will dominate- but at least the carrot and effort was there.

Now, its go to gegenpress, and dominate (or at least overachieve) straight away. Click and continue, with no effort. The carrot has gone.

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I dont think the game it too easy as such but certain tactics are very potent, i won the league in my third season with Newcastle buying only Brazilian players between aged 18-23.  inside forwards and wingers with instructions to swap potion for me is phenomenal but i have made sure players have 5/6 of these attributes 16+ . dribbling flair technique pace acceleration or agility.

already having st maxim inspired me to build this tactic i have sold him now 70million straight cash was enough for me.

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On 11/12/2020 at 00:53, Sharkn20 said:

Definitely AI decision making in Roster building has to be improved in FM. AI often undersells or overpays depending on scenarios, amd we humans are always in the winning end of the trade wars.

Most definitely. But it isn't as easy as we think. It does and will get better, even by a small margin every year. Patience my guy

Edited by Preveza
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Normally there is a small percentage of people who find it too easy, a small percentage find it too hard, and most people are normally happy with the difficulty. This year a much larger percentage of people are finding the game too easy, and I think this is down to ai teams not attacking when they are losing its as simple as that. Managers who play defensively really struggle at the moment. I’m hoping for a fix in the next update. 

Edited by Weller1980
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I'm yet to find a tactic that wasn't amazing for 10 games and awful after that. 

Was 2nd after 10 games with a 6 point deduction then went on a losing run including 6-1 v Barnsley. It's the same whether I create my own or use a knap or Beowulf tactic etc. 

To sum up, I don't find the game easy at all 

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2 hours ago, redders1977 said:

I'm yet to find a tactic that wasn't amazing for 10 games and awful after that. 

Was 2nd after 10 games with a 6 point deduction then went on a losing run including 6-1 v Barnsley. It's the same whether I create my own or use a knap or Beowulf tactic etc. 

To sum up, I don't find the game easy at all 

Morale plays a huge role.

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38 minutes ago, redders1977 said:

Surely can't be any happier after 10 games though. 

Not saying I'd expect to stay there, just goes from brilliant to shocking. In real life it's just shocking

Need to make sure that the players aren't getting too complacent. If they're on a winning run of several matches, it starts being better to tell them that you expect them to win and anything less isn't good enough, rather than just going for the option that gives you the green response like "I have faith in you" or whatever. 

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Currently sat comfortably in third in the Colombian second division using a team predicted to finish mid table. Most games my goal isn't even threatened - I feel I'm winning games without really having to do much myself.

I chose this league and team for a long-term challenge, but right now I'm on for promotion in the very first season without spending a penny, selling my best player, and trying out a new formation I made myself (based on tika-taka but edited a fair bit and positions moved around etc).

I lost one in the league unluckily, the rest of the games have been absurdly comfortable. Even if I lose in the cup to higher division teams (which are still really close games) or draw a league game I'm not remotely worried by whoever I play next, as my team controls the games throughout.

 

I'm not sure what the issue is really. Are the AI not intelligent enough, or not attacking enough? Or were their signings that much worse than the free transfers I brought in using my limited scouting resources?

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definitely think this version is too easy, got 100 point PL seasons in season 2,3, and 4 and won champions league 3 times in a row with just base Man Utd squad minus Pogba. Even after selling Greenwood to make it tougher. And I use a basic 4-2-3-1 so not some sort of tactical genius.

Edited by Cartopis84
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9 minutes ago, Dreambuilder said:

Team cohesion even more. And player attributes. Tactics is like 25% part of the success.

i wish that was true. 

It's more like 

Tactics

Morale

 

...Then everything else at tier 2 of importance.

 

Morale can either damage a team severely or pump up the team to where they are on a winning streak.

 

As for tactics, playing any form of attacking and high intensity pressure tactics will give you a better chance at winning and overachieving no matter the team cohesion or attributes of players. I recently had a player with 10 finishing lead the EPL by a long shot with 35 goals...

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2 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

i wish that was true. 

It's more like 

Tactics

Morale

 

...Then everything else at tier 2 of importance.

 

Morale can either damage a team severely or pump up the team to where they are on a winning streak.

 

As for tactics, playing any form of attacking and high intensity pressure tactics will give you a better chance at winning and overachieving no matter the team cohesion or attributes of players. I recently had a player with 10 finishing lead the EPL by a long shot with 35 goals...

:) is he good at long shots? :D 

I just noted a huge importance of getting team cohesion up asap when starting a new save and the team cohesion often starts out poor. Play as many friendlies as possible and add as much teamwork and team cohesion as possible to training. Match preparation -> teamwork before every game etc.

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15 minutes ago, Dreambuilder said:

:) is he good at long shots? :D 

I just noted a huge importance of getting team cohesion up asap when starting a new save and the team cohesion often starts out poor. Play as many friendlies as possible and add as much teamwork and team cohesion as possible to training. Match preparation -> teamwork before every game etc.

Long shots were average. 

those other factors help but it's those main two things that are overpowering in the game.

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On 07/12/2020 at 20:30, Marc Vaughan said:

Can I just check what you're indicating here? - you played less than an entire season and decided it was too easy? .... surely that is akin to Ancelotti having stopped this season with Everton top of the league because it was obviously a foregone conclusion?

Yes.

Can you please give some statistical proof of teams that in the beginning of the season were not predicted to fight for the title, that just got a new manager, that in February/March have lost a few games maximum, that finished top of the table in the CL/Europa League group, that have the best attack and defense in the league, that won 75% of the games against stronger and same level rivals, that, apart from the mentality, didn't adapt at all their formation to the opponents? all this in recent years and in a top tier league, thanks.

I might be really "unlucky".

- I'm not saying this is impossible to happen, just shouldn't be that easy -

Everton is sitting 5th in the table, lost already 4 games and it's December.

Don't get me wrong, I like the game, a lot, I want it to improve.

Edited by madskull.93
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56 minutes ago, madskull.93 said:

Can you please give some statistical proof of teams that in the beginning of the season were not predicted to fight for the title, that just got a new manager, that in February/March have lost a few games maximum, that finished top of the table in the CL/Europa League group, that have the best attack and defense in the league, that won 75% of the games against stronger and same level rivals, that, apart from the mentality, didn't adapt at all their formation to the opponents? all this in recent years and in a top tier league, thanks.

Southampton are currently 3rd in the Premiership today and could have been top if last weekends results went differently, I would love to see them up there at the end of the season - but feel it's unlikely.

If you still have that save I'd appreciate it if you'd play onward and let me know how it goes - I'd also be interested in receiving these saves from you for tuning purposes if you still find its too easy after doing so (and if you want to share the tactic then my Eastbourne team would appreciate it ;) ).

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11 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Southampton are currently 3rd in the Premiership today and could have been top if last weekends results went differently, I would love to see them up there at the end of the season - but feel it's unlikely.

If you still have that save I'd appreciate it if you'd play onward and let me know how it goes - I'd also be interested in receiving these saves from you for tuning purposes if you still find its too easy after doing so (and if you want to share the tactic then my Eastbourne team would appreciate it ;) ).

Do you want my Wycombe save?

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I'm not sold on AI squad building being poor.

From my longer term saves, they do quite well thesedays. They get some youth talents out, and buy aggressively.

Liverpool almost had an unbeaten season until I ruined it for them. They went on to buy Kane, Depay and so on, and were absolutely nonsensical the following season.

 

On 13/12/2020 at 11:37, Weed07 said:

In real life i'm a Carlisle fan, i'm 40 next year and in my time supporting them they have bounced mostly between league one and two with 1 season in the conference. If that was to happen in the game it wouldnt be fun, i wouldn't want to play for say 30 seasons like that.

Indeed. I'm wary of all the 'holiday' results and experiments going on here, as I don't think they prove anything tbh.

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If the devs are interested in looking into this issue, where can I upload saves for them to take a look?

 

I feel like whenever I’ve raised an issue with this game being ridiculously easy it has been swept under the carpet 

Edited by KOSGS1
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On a slightly different issue- is FM Touch afflicted by the same overpowered tactical issues as regular FM? Has anyone noticed a more competitive experience in that?
 

I haven't bought 21 for this reason, but would fire up Touch for 20 if it could provide something other than just set-to-same-super-tactics and win...

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8 hours ago, sthptngomad76 said:

On a slightly different issue- is FM Touch afflicted by the same overpowered tactical issues as regular FM? Has anyone noticed a more competitive experience in that?
 

I haven't bought 21 for this reason, but would fire up Touch for 20 if it could provide something other than just set-to-same-super-tactics and win...

I find FMT much more challenging than normal tbh. I believe that is mainly because in normal one it is easy to increase moral and have an edge over AI even with inferior teams but that is not the case in FMT.

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4th season with Cork City. From Promoted to Premier League to winning in second season, then third season again winning national title and a bunch of cups, so reaching grouprounds in the last season. Crazy. What do to with all these millions.. Oof. Board do not want to invest in the facilities. I guess the game is easy depend on where you start. By the way in real life this should be doable in 10 years, right? I am happy. Wondering what will be next. 3rd place and then EL after Winter would be totally awesome. 

Naamloos.png

 

One day later....Guess I am ultradupersuperlucky. 

Naamloos.png

Edited by RinusFM
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9 minutes ago, Showerman said:

Using my own created tactic, no editor, no outside scout never have I had results like this first season.

tooeasy

 

I have signed 2 players, 1 was a free. (both cbs Garay and Tah)

Restart your save and see if you can replicate it again, might just be luck.

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I think Junkhead has a point though. I have read most of the topic in one go and have noticed something. A lot of people is saying it is too easy, because "Look at the results Im able to get wtih X team", "I barelly made any signings", "Im beating sueprior teams left and right", etc.

Thing is, that doesn't really tell us much. Like yeah, it's an indication that the game may be too easy, but it gives no clue as of why. Why does the player overachieve? Is there something players do that is more effective than it should? Its there something that the AI is doing terribly and idnirectly gives players and advantage? Without searching for the cause I dont see how this is going to yield anything. Showing an unrealistic achievement and shuting "FIX PLEASE" is not going to give any clue to the devs where the issue is.

I get this feeling because after reading 4 pages of topic it hasnt't really enlightened me as to what the issue may be, its just about repeatedly pointing that there may be one. The best hint so far has been the one of AI been too passive instead of attacking more when its behind, which seems to eb already under review and hopefully would yield more results. It would be good to have mroe things like that as I doubt its the only issue given the extreme results.

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