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FM has problems to retain the amount of players when Leagues are set to view-only/ Massive reduction of real players over time


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Due my testing I spotted a problem by the AI to keep the amount of players compared to the start-amount. This happends, when a team get's relegated and the team from down below doesn't have a squad. The relegated team will loose players over time. My test-db had 85k players in 2020. Further in 2033 there were only 40k left. The test-setup contained only one playable Nation, all the others were view-only. 

 

I uploaded them:

"Playeramount2020"

"Playeramount2033"

I have completed some more data, if you need them, just let me know!

Cheers

Daveincid

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb freddieos:

7 years in you think that would still fix it? Or you mean just for going forwards?

If it's the latter, the save is kinda screwed of any realism.

Now I know why Wales won the World Cup in 2026. 

not for an ongoing save. 

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Thanks for the post, this is a known issue and one we are working on to get fixed.

I believe adding nations as playable during a save will fix the issue for that nation - so for example if you want more Brazilian newgens to generate in your save, then adding Brazil as a playable nation would achieve this (as would be the case regardless of the bug, as there are always far fewer players in unplayable leagues). 

 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Andrew James:

Thanks for the post, this is a known issue and one we are working on to get fixed.

I believe adding nations as playable during a save will fix the issue for that nation - so for example if you want more Brazilian newgens to generate in your save, then adding Brazil as a playable nation would achieve this (as would be the case regardless of the bug, as there are always far fewer players in unplayable leagues). 

 

yeah I know. I have a holiday-save with all leagues playable in 2045. It looks really good and realistic! FM 21 really makes fun!  Thank you for trying to fix:)

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19 minutes ago, RinusFM said:

so it's confirmed if its gets fixed it's not savegame-compatible? 

No, once we have a proper fix for this, I believe it will be save game compatible. When there's more information on this I'll let you know. 

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29 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

No, once we have a proper fix for this, I believe it will be save game compatible. When there's more information on this I'll let you know. 

Great. Then I will put FM on hold now and go back to Automobilista 2 and Diablo II. Wish you all luck. This bug is nasty!

Edited by RinusFM
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vor 15 Minuten schrieb Andrew James:

Quick update on this one: once we have a fix ready it will be save game compatible. 

We're working hard to get this one addressed ASAP and your patience is greatly appreciated. 

Apologies again for the frustration caused by this bug, I'll keep you updated as and when there's more info. 

Thank you very much! 

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2 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Quick update on this one: once we have a fix ready it will be save game compatible. 

We're working hard to get this one addressed ASAP and your patience is greatly appreciated. 

Apologies again for the frustration caused by this bug, I'll keep you updated as and when there's more info. 

Well that's good news. Thanks for letting us know.

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The latest update contains a fix for this issue. We’ve increased the leniency for top clubs’ player count in non-playable leagues which should increase the likelihood of certain clubs receiving youth intakes each year.

The fix is save game compatible but this doesn’t mean that loads of new newgens will start appearing in all nations in your save straight away. Newgens have a pre-generation date around 3 months before they appear in game, so the fix will apply to the next pre-generation dates, rather than next intake date.

I also want to clarify that the amount of newgens that generate in the first season in non-playable leagues shouldn’t be expected every season. We use newgens to replace retiring players and keep the overall player count relatively consistent, in FM21 there are more retirements than usual in the first season, which we think is a result of more free agents at game start and the COVID 19 financial implications meaning many clubs won’t offer as many contracts. So after the inflated first season intakes, the game balances out and the player count in these inactive leagues is deemed acceptable and therefore they may not receive intakes again for some time.

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, we’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too.

Hopefully that all makes sense! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks again for your patience.

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Just a little update from my testing. (1 League playable,  advanced db with 100k-players). The problem still exists, but it has slown down a bit in the first years. As @Andrew James said, the decrease in the first 3 years is mostly down to a lot of free agents and a lot of players aged 40+ to 56. The most of them retire after 2-3 years. 

For my feeling the problem is still too big, even for the first 5 years, if only one league is active.  I am planning a All-Nations-playable-Test to see if it works in this scenario. It takes about a week I guess to simulate it. I am quite optimistic in this case, I will give you an update ASAP.

My only concern is, that all Nations, where you haven't loaded a custom league, they will extremely struggle to keep up in the future because they have much less players.

Theese are my numbers:

27.07.20 108522
19.07.21 104593
24.01.22 103928
29.07.22 99175
05.01.23 99391
11.07.23 96005
30.10.23 96401
01.04.24 95256
01.07.24 92412
02.08.24 92198
13.10.24 92523
09.01.25 92057
08.01.27 84924
03.07.27 82161
06.02.28 81816
04.07.28 79019
2038

50000 

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I Did a test of my own with a smaller database and only one league loaded and the results showed a bigger decrease:

2021: 43000

2024: 31000

that's more than 10000 players in just 5 years.

Edited by Reiver
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Thanks for the updates. This issue will be more prevalent in save games where Advanced Options have been used to load extra players into inactive leagues. We are working on a fix to resolve this too. 

Saves with a "normal" setup, whereby the majority of player count is made up of players in playable leagues will be less severely affected. There are still some issues with the player count in these setups after 8 years or so, again we're working hard on a fix which will also be save game compatible. 

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Thank you for the update. I will finish my current season and then put it on hold again. I've loaded 20 countries. 40 leagues. Also every continent has players loaded. 107 000 people total. So I am affected.  31 May 2022 its 105 000.

Edited by RinusFM
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25 minutes ago, RinusFM said:

I've loaded 20 countries. 40 leagues. Also every continent has players loaded. 107 000 people total. So I am affected.  31 May 2022 its 105 000.

Are all of these leagues playable? 'View-only' leagues do not get extra players at game start or via newgens as compared to inactive leagues - the only difference is that the rules for the league are loaded and so you'll be able to see league tables etc. 

If you are loading players into View Only leagues via Advanced Options, then you may as well add them as playable - this will mean that they produce far more newgens and your player count will remain more consistent. 

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3 hours ago, Reiver said:

I Did a test of my own with a smaller database and only one league loaded and the results showed a bigger decrease:

2021: 43000

2024: 31000

that's more than 10000 players in just 5 years.

Just for extra info if needed, this was run with the Canadian League on and national reputation players from all continents.

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13 horas atrás, Andrew James disse:

Thanks for the updates. This issue will be more prevalent in save games where Advanced Options have been used to load extra players into inactive leagues. We are working on a fix to resolve this too. 

Saves with a "normal" setup, whereby the majority of player count is made up of players in playable leagues will be less severely affected. There are still some issues with the player count in these setups after 8 years or so, again we're working hard on a fix which will also be save game compatible. 

Thanks for the input on this. Without being pushy... When you imagine that it will be ready?

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Small update from my testsave with all leagues playable + some custom leagues playable:

Playercount actually increases slightly. I don't know about longterm yet. 

Date players
27.07.20 303034
24.04.21 309798
17.06.21 311758
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5 hours ago, Daveincid said:

Small update from my testsave with all leagues playable + some custom leagues playable:

Playercount actually increases slightly. I don't know about longterm yet. 

Date players
27.07.20 303034
24.04.21 309798
17.06.21 311758

But we dont know if all leagues got youth intakes or do we? Playercount increased, thats true, but that doesnt prove that all teams got their intakes. Maybe just some clubs got more than they are used to. I think this needs more research.

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vor 13 Minuten schrieb blejdek:

But we dont know if all leagues got youth intakes or do we? Playercount increased, thats true, but that doesnt prove that all teams got their intakes. Maybe just some clubs got more than they are used to. I think this needs more research.

all leagues which are loaded and playable get enough youth players. all view-only and unloaded leagues won't

Edit: just to get it right, IMO it's not planned that a Team get's over 10 newgens every season.  between 3-6 looks about right for me to keep balance in the longrun. It's not about a specific club at all. it's about total balance

Edited by Daveincid
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Am 2.12.2020 um 15:55 schrieb Andrew James:

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, we’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too.

The amout of newgens is usually garuanteed in a playable league. The continuous drop of  total player-amount happend's when a team from a playable league falls into a unplayable league. The team that get's promoted instead, has much less youth players (due the bug of inactive leagues-newgens).  The relegated team won't get any or just marginally newgens anymore. So there is a permanent loss of players. So the problem IMO can't be separated between playable and unplayable league. 

A closed league-system should have no problem at all: Australia

Australia.thumb.jpg.c33d0210f1c10d6195b675c4ca831547.jpg

 

A open league system struggles: Germany

TSV Bucholz was promoted las year from inactive to an active league

448063090_TSVB.thumb.jpg.21efd06e4a2cebccaef59743581f731a.jpg

 

 

Chemnitz was relegated last year in a inactive league

Chemniz.thumb.jpg.eb629ea65860bc246555b264e9e05b79.jpg

Dortmund has no issues

Dortmund.thumb.jpg.91780d5bd57527efff63f01847a7f472.jpg

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Stupid question. I want to run my own test on this as I really want to start a fm21 save

Where do I actually see how may players there are in a save once started? 

I see the approx number under the add/remove leagues but Daveincid had very specific numbers and I dont know where to find that!

Edited by jib
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