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[FM21] Realistic Injuries 1.0 *UPDATED 12/12/20* Added Reduced Frequency


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I downloaded this file in April/May for FM20 but aborted the save about half a season in - squad view was like the emergency room on a saturday night! Everyone got injured all the time.

I love all your other mods but this one didn't work for me. Or maybe I was just unlucky, I managed Sunderland after all...

Safe to download now?

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On 29/11/2020 at 16:01, freddieos said:

I downloaded this file in April/May for FM20 but aborted the save about half a season in - squad view was like the emergency room on a saturday night! Everyone got injured all the time.

I love all your other mods but this one didn't work for me. Or maybe I was just unlucky, I managed Sunderland after all...

Safe to download now?

Haha, guess you are a poor at rotating? Just kidding.

Well, keep in mind there will be more injuries, more day-to-day ones. That's the idea. But there will be less long ones.

For example, default FM may have 400 injuries, with about 10% 4 months or longer. Mine would have 500 injuries, with only about 4% 4 months or longer. You would see more injuries, but ones that are only a few days, or that can be played through with equipment.

So, when you download it next and look, try to pay attention to the length/time out, not just how many.

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Hi I've found my way over here from your files being shared on sortitoutsi, I'm loving the concepts of all your mods! Just waiting on this and the transfer preferences ones before I start my long term save. Do you have a rough estimate of when they might become available?m I just about found some of your mods before the end of FM20 and they're amazing! So thank you for them

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  • majesticeternity changed the title to [FM21] Realistic Injuries 1.0 *UPDATED 12/12/20*

Haha I'm using this and my U21 striker was just sent home for 5-6 days to recover from "Personal reasons"

136071774_Screenshot2020-12-19110749.thumb.png.d1cf221c216fff7f72064cd876126132.png

 

I hope he recovers from those personal reasons it really sounds painful. :lol:

I'm not criticizing, it makes sense and is realistic for players to occasionally miss time for personal reasons, but the way FM words this really really makes me laugh.

 

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6 minutes ago, BedeviledEgg said:

Haha I'm using this and my U21 striker was just sent home for 5-6 days to recover from "Personal reasons"

136071774_Screenshot2020-12-19110749.thumb.png.d1cf221c216fff7f72064cd876126132.png

 

I hope he recovers from those personal reasons it really sounds painful. :lol:

I'm not criticizing, it makes sense and is realistic for players to occasionally miss time for personal reasons, but the way FM words this really really makes me laugh.

 

Oh, yes, I agree!

lol

It was hard to know to leave it or not, but as you said it's realistic for them to occasionally leave for personal reasons, so I figured it was much more realistic to leave it in. And hey, you could say something in his personal life is causing him pain..emotioinally...

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1 minute ago, majesticeternity said:

It was hard to know to leave it or not, but as you said it's realistic for them to occasionally leave for personal reasons, so I figured it was much more realistic to leave it in. And hey, you could say something in his personal life is causing him pain..emotioinally...

maybe his girlfriend broke up with him which made him depressed and that would explain why my female U23 physios are able to "treat" this "pain"   :lol:

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I tried this file eargerly, though its a shame that it requries full detail to apply properly to all temas.

I am sorry to say though that my feedback is not positve. We all agree, even SI, that the base games inury rate is reduced, but I feel like this mod puts it over the top, at least in some scenarios. I just played the preseason and of my planned long term save and I decied to restart after a month in, despite the hassle that the initial setup of the team is.

In a month of pre season I had three 8-10 week injuries, two 5-7 week injuries and like a dozen or more light injuries of 1-2 weeks.  And that just on the main squad. B and U-19 squads had a similar proportion, total numbers been a bit lower due to smaller squads, but basically 1-2 severe injuries and a bunch of light ones each.

 

I was expecting an increase but in line with what its shown in the OP (20-25% more injuries with actually less longer ones) but, compared to what I got in the full season I played without the mod, I got more "severe" injuries already and like 50% of "light" ones. All while doing basically the same regarding training and such. This all was while rotating players heavily to account for low shaprness  (all players except GK got max 60 min a match, with most just 45 min).

I thought that I may have doing thigns wrong, but it was not only me. In the 5 preseason matches I played till I stopped my opponents suffered a total of at least 4 severe injuries and 5 light ones that I noticed during the matches themselves. Like I dont think there was any match without some injury in either side.

 

I dont know how the mod exactly works bu,t maybe it raises the chances too much in some conditions? The preaseason means everyone is a low sharpness and there is no way escaping that, which is normally a risk increase. Maybe the way the mod interacts with it makes the numbers go through the roof there?

 

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Hello love the work you do on FM each year. I just have a few questions; Since Seb from SI said we cant increase the number of injuries using the editor and we can only change the chance that longer injuries occur how did you achieve the 20% increase in injuries?

Did you instead try to make the total length of all injuries equal the total length of all injuries in the real world? Or I guess you might be making players get fatigued more due to training and matches which would make them more susceptible to injuries? Also what leagues are you basing the numbers on? 

Edited by francis#17
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@Jervaj Did you rest the players in between games, or still train them? Because if they'd just played a match they'd need resting, not training. Later, I will upload a Reduced Frequency file you can try out.

2 hours ago, BedeviledEgg said:

My season has just begun and I have 9 injured 1st team starters, lol

however two of them are Sturridge and Wilshere and we know they are both made of glass

Lol, that sounds about right! Often in EPL a team can have 7,8,9 injured players!

2 hours ago, francis#17 said:

Hello love the work you do on FM each year. I just have a few questions; Since Seb from SI said we cant increase the number of injuries using the editor and we can only change the chance that longer injuries occur how did you achieve the 20% increase in injuries?

Did you instead try to make the total length of all injuries equal the total length of all injuries in the real world? Or I guess you might be making players get fatigued more due to training and matches which would make them more susceptible to injuries? Also what leagues are you basing the numbers on? 

I am not sure about the "can't increase the number of injuries" thing...See the comment above, where there are quite a few more, and from our testing, there is more achieved. 

I changed mainly the Occurrence Ratio, but also Inactive Ratio, and Match Injury Percentage. And added alot of injuries. I am not 100% sure what causes the increase, but my Reduced Frequency file last year only change Occurrence Ratio...

I can't determine the total length of all injuries IRL specifically...I have not changed fatigue or anything within the game, only SI can do that. 

It's not specific leagues I'm basing the numbers on, but scientific studies, that studied the UEFA matches players, or all USA professional men's soccer players, or European professional men's footballers, etc

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42 minutes ago, majesticeternity said:

I am not sure about the "can't increase the number of injuries" thing...See the comment above, where there are quite a few more, and from our testing, there is more achieved. 

I changed mainly the Occurrence Ratio, but also Inactive Ratio, and Match Injury Percentage. And added alot of injuries. I am not 100% sure what causes the increase, but my Reduced Frequency file last year only change Occurrence Ratio...

I can't determine the total length of all injuries IRL specifically...I have not changed fatigue or anything within the game, only SI can do that. 

It's not specific leagues I'm basing the numbers on, but scientific studies, that studied the UEFA matches players, or all USA professional men's soccer players, or European professional men's footballers, etc

Thanks very much for getting back to me and explaining. When I said "cant increase number of injuries" I was referring to when Seb Wassell said to you in the thread from last year:

"Simplest way of considering it is this: say we need to give out X number of injuries per day on average to hit our desired total for that season, the occurrence ratio of each injury describes how likely it is that that specific injury will be part of today's X. If you change the occurrence ratio you change how likely a certain injury is to occur on any given day, but you do not change the overall total, X still equals X it is now just made up of different injuries"

and

"sounds like this affects time out injured rather than actual injury frequency by making larger injuries more likely to occur. Therefore, whilst the total number of injury occurrences may remain static, when players do suffer injuries they are more likely to be out for longer, thus at any one time each club has "more" injuries than standard"

He did say that with extreme ratio numbers that maybe there could be an increase so I was wondering if that happened? Or if the aim of this file is to make more types of injuries and change the ratio they occur

Edited by francis#17
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1 hour ago, francis#17 said:

He did say that with extreme ratio numbers that maybe there could be an increase so I was wondering if that happened? Or if the aim of this file is to make more types of injuries and change the ratio they occur

Yes, I knew what you were referring to.

I mean that, when you add the file, the injury numbers go up. That is all. 

The aim of this file is to do all that you mentioned, increase injuries that occur, vary the types of injuries, and the ratios they occur. So that it is realistic, and all FM players in total will have many more knee injuries than shoulder injuries, will have more strains/sprains than fractures, and so on.

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7 minutes ago, majesticeternity said:

Yes, I knew what you were referring to.

I mean that, when you add the file, the injury numbers go up. That is all. 

The aim of this file is to do all that you mentioned, increase injuries that occur, vary the types of injuries, and the ratios they occur. So that it is realistic, and all FM players in total will have many more knee injuries than shoulder injuries, will have more strains/sprains than fractures, and so on.

Thanks very much!

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4 hours ago, majesticeternity said:

@Jervaj Did you rest the players in between games, or still train them? Because if they'd just played a match they'd need resting, not training. Later, I will upload a Reduced Frequency file you can try out.

Depends what you mean by "rest in between games". Day after match its always Rest-Recovery-Match Review. The latter may get replaced eventually if the cohesion/familiarity isnt needed but if so always but the lightest of sessions.  Of course they do train after that, though there is some recovery in the middle if the following match its not close.

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1 hour ago, Jervaj said:

Depends what you mean by "rest in between games". Day after match its always Rest-Recovery-Match Review. The latter may get replaced eventually if the cohesion/familiarity isnt needed but if so always but the lightest of sessions.  Of course they do train after that, though there is some recovery in the middle if the following match its not close.

Ok, thanks for the info!

For pre-season, you would need rest for more than one day until they get up to par, and even then, usually a couple days at least.

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7 hours ago, majesticeternity said:

Ok, thanks for the info!

For pre-season, you would need rest for more than one day until they get up to par, and even then, usually a couple days at least.

Umm, 2 days at least? Interesting. Seems right if you have a main 11 that plays most matches, but seems problematic otherwise. Let me elaborate.

If there its two matches a week (which is very common in the particular case of this team early on,  even in early preseason due to pre arranged matches) there is literally no space for that unless I completely axe match prep (which is quite a light day already). 

Even if there isn't,  in the season I played pre patch, I already struggled with sharpness towards the end of the season which is when I played 1 match a week for quite a few weeks in a row. More rest would make matters worse in that regard, and bad sharpness worsens performance, condition wear and injury proneness notably (specially with condition also affecting injury proneness) so it seems counterintuitive even for the sake of injuries.

What kind of "rest days" would you do if you have 2 between matches? The thing is that "rest sessions", at least by the info ingame, helps mostly with condition, hapiness and fatigue. With rotations I already rarelly struggle with condition. Similarly with fatigue, specially with recovery been quite effective there too. I only have some issues when there is match congestion (several 2 match weeks in a row, specially if due to day shifts marches are closer) in which case I do try to add some more rest but otherwise it feels that adding more rest will hurt sharpness without much benefit, which, in theory, would be worse for injuries. 

Going back to the start, your advice does seem very fitting for players that keep on playing. In fact when I had that happening (due to important matches in a row or injuries not allowing rotation) I manually gave an extra day (sometimes even two if the situation carries on) of rest a week to the player/s affected. But with the heavy rotations (I basically have 2 11s) it feels counterintuitive by default given all the in game inputs.

In the season I played without your mod, the shape of my team improved (along with player training ratigs) when I noticed this info, and started tweaking more with training and reducing rest sessions, in fact I was one of the sides with the least injuries on my league.

And its not the fact that injuries increased, I expected that. Is the rate as I said, having in one month half a season worth of injuries felt too drastic. I guess the low sharpness had its good share on that, but as I mentioned in the preseason marches players were mostly playing 45 min to balance the low sharpness. I dont even get full sharpness until the first match leagues with this unless I double match most preseason weeks, which feels dangerous injury wise.

 

I really feel Im missing something, or misinterpreting the info so far. Could you PM me some tips maybe regading training and injury management and/or show examples of training weeks to try to see maybe where the issues are?

 

Thanks you for taking the tme to answer and for the work on the mod. Gotta say that outside of this issue I liked overall the injury variety, descriptions and possible treatments. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Jervaj said:

Thanks you for taking the tme to answer and for the work on the mod. Gotta say that outside of this issue I liked overall the injury variety, descriptions and possible treatments. 

 

Thank you for your willingness to discuss this and for both of us to learn! I will pm you 

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  • majesticeternity changed the title to [FM21] Realistic Injuries 1.0 *UPDATED 12/12/20* Added Reduced Frequency
27 minutes ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

Hello, does the "reduced frequency" option brings the injury rate closer to vanilla FM? Is it still higher than vanilla FM but lower than the original version of the mod? Thanks in advance.

It may be slightly higher, but there are also more injuries that can be played through, than in vanilla. It should be about near vanilla.

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1 hour ago, majesticeternity said:

no, sorry. fmfs have to be loaded on new game database

Okay. Struggling with the original mod to be honest. In half a season so far quite a few of my players have spent 50% of their time injured and its hampering their development. I hope it's just going through a bad patch. 

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17 hours ago, karanhsingh said:

Okay. Struggling with the original mod to be honest. In half a season so far quite a few of my players have spent 50% of their time injured and its hampering their development. I hope it's just going through a bad patch. 

This has been exactly my experience after 1 1/2 seasons.  Some players literally never play a game.

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Is there any tips for managing this? @majesticeternity

I don't want to start a new game as I am already quite a bit in - I just had EIGHT injuries in one day. It's getting a bit much, and I am fearing will also impact on player development.

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9 hours ago, karanhsingh said:

Is there any tips for managing this? @majesticeternity

I don't want to start a new game as I am already quite a bit in - I just had EIGHT injuries in one day. It's getting a bit much, and I am fearing will also impact on player development.

Wow, that’s crazy!!

lots of things. 
 

a good full physio team. 
Adding injury risk column to your squad view, and always resting any players who are at higher risk, for a day or two depending on their status. This is very important!

making sure to only play players who are fit and ready.  
sell players who are injury prone. 
don’t play a high press, intense tactic, or at least reduce the amount of time on the pitch that you do. 
make good use of all your subs every game, not just bringing them on in last 10 mins.

Make sure training is light, especially if there’s multiple games. Not physical training during the season. 

make sure your pitch is in good condition. 
Make sure players condition/sharpness is good. 
for injured players who have just healed(unless a minor injury), use rehab or recovery for a few days and slowly bring them back into the games and training. 
make good use of youth team games to keep players condition up. 

and I don’t know what else, right now. 

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On 03/01/2021 at 09:29, karanhsingh said:

Okay. Struggling with the original mod to be honest. In half a season so far quite a few of my players have spent 50% of their time injured and its hampering their development. I hope it's just going through a bad patch. 

I really struggled with this at first but after getting some advice I am not having any issues, pretty much just more realistic injuries. Apart from the advice the author of this great mod has made I would also say.

1. Get squad view made up to look like this which covers most of what you will need injury wise. You will notice the physio recommendation is half intensity but this is post match and I have my rest and recovery day tomorrow. If however after the rest day these players are still high risk I will manually lower their intensity down to the Physio recommendation till the injury risk goes to normal. 

image.png.a018d0e055ef1ee56422632624221324.png

2, Get the best head Physio and Physios possible and get a few of them. I have only recently learnt this but the best Physios are ones that have a high attributes in Fitness training too. 

3, Pre-season is massive, it's vitally important to get match sharpness and condition in to the players as quickly as possible whilst monitoring the injury risk. My first pre-season and post winter break period were a disaster. After that whilst implementing these things I haven't had a problem whatsoever.

4. Match sharpness is vital, as has been mentioned. I am not convinced the amount of time it takes to get full match sharpness(From SI) is accurate but it can be a catch 22 between keeping sharpness up with those players who aren't automatic starters because you are trying to not over-train your players too. So using the reserves to keep the fitness up or regular rotation of players is vital.

Edited by Crazy_Ivan
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14 hours ago, majesticeternity said:

Wow, that’s crazy!!

lots of things. 

a good full physio team. 
Adding injury risk column to your squad view, and always resting any players who are at higher risk, for a day or two depending on their status. This is very important!

making sure to only play players who are fit and ready.  
sell players who are injury prone. 
don’t play a high press, intense tactic, or at least reduce the amount of time on the pitch that you do. 
make good use of all your subs every game, not just bringing them on in last 10 mins.

Make sure training is light, especially if there’s multiple games. Not physical training during the season. 

make sure your pitch is in good condition. 
Make sure players condition/sharpness is good. 
for injured players who have just healed(unless a minor injury), use rehab or recovery for a few days and slowly bring them back into the games and training. 
make good use of youth team games to keep players condition up. 

and I don’t know what else, right now. 

 

12 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I really struggled with this at first but after getting some advice I am not having any issues, pretty much just more realistic injuries. Apart from the advice the author of this great mod has made I would also say.

1. Get squad view made up to look like this which covers most of what you will need injury wise. You will notice the physio recommendation is half intensity but this is post match and I have my rest and recovery day tomorrow. If however after the rest day these players are still high risk I will manually lower their intensity down to the Physio recommendation till the injury risk goes to normal. 

image.png.7c5bd7b1dbfa752bd0b47c0938f4fd8f.png

2, Get the best head Physio and Physios possible and get a few of them. I have only recently learnt this but the best Physios are ones that have a high attributes in Fitness training too. 

3, Pre-season is massive, it's vitally important to get match sharpness and condition in to the players as quickly as possible whilst monitoring the injury risk. My first pre-season and post winter break period were a disaster. After that whilst implementing these things I haven't had a problem whatsoever.

4. Match sharpness is vital, as has been mentioned. I am not convinced the amount of time it takes to get full match sharpness(From SI) is accurate but it can be a catch 22 between keeping sharpness up with those players who aren't automatic starters because you are trying to not over-train your players too. So using the reserves to keep the fitness up or regular rotation of players is vital.

Thanks for the feedback, will try this and see how I get on for a few months.

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23 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I really struggled with this at first but after getting some advice I am not having any issues, pretty much just more realistic injuries. Apart from the advice the author of this great mod has made I would also say.

1. Get squad view made up to look like this which covers most of what you will need injury wise. You will notice the physio recommendation is half intensity but this is post match and I have my rest and recovery day tomorrow. If however after the rest day these players are still high risk I will manually lower their intensity down to the Physio recommendation till the injury risk goes to normal. 

image.png.a018d0e055ef1ee56422632624221324.png

2, Get the best head Physio and Physios possible and get a few of them. I have only recently learnt this but the best Physios are ones that have a high attributes in Fitness training too. 

3, Pre-season is massive, it's vitally important to get match sharpness and condition in to the players as quickly as possible whilst monitoring the injury risk. My first pre-season and post winter break period were a disaster. After that whilst implementing these things I haven't had a problem whatsoever.

4. Match sharpness is vital, as has been mentioned. I am not convinced the amount of time it takes to get full match sharpness(From SI) is accurate but it can be a catch 22 between keeping sharpness up with those players who aren't automatic starters because you are trying to not over-train your players too. So using the reserves to keep the fitness up or regular rotation of players is vital.

Thanks for the additional tips and info! 
 

Nice to get your feedback and see how you grew into a better manager!

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36 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

 

Thanks for the feedback, will try this and see how I get on for a few months.

Not to be patronising but if it's all too time consuming you can also just do this. Select all the players who are high risk, right click through to the training intensity and hit a one or two day rest. If players are very high risk you will either rest them for two days or do one day and monitor from there.

One other point is that after players come back from international duty, especially mid season competitions they also need to be sorted out training wise and treated with kid gloves if you intend playing them on the weekend,

 

Edited by Crazy_Ivan
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1 minute ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

Not to be patronising but if it's all too time consuming you can also just do this. Select all the players who are high risk, right click through to the training intensity and hit a one or two day rest. If players are very high risk you will either rest them for two days or do one day and monitor from there.

 

Would all this resting not impact player development? Or you didn't have any issues with that?

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6 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

Would all this resting not impact player development? Or you didn't have any issues with that?

Sharpness more. Hasn't had an impact on development. I edited my post too about Internationals that need to be taken in to account and also inevitably reserves play on different days so your first team players will need to be rested after a reserves match rather than play and go straight back in to full match training.

Edited by Crazy_Ivan
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2 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

Sharpness more. Hasn't had an impact on development. I edited my post too about Internationals that need to be taken in to account and also inevitably reserves play on different days so your first team players will need to be rested after a reserves match rather than play and go straight back in to full match training.

I saw that. How many seasons have you played with this mod - have your players been developing fine? In terms of ability and attributes - that's my bigger concern.

I am currently wondering whether to abort the save or carry on, would like to do the latter as I have already put in a lot into it!

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5 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

I saw that. How many seasons have you played with this mod - have your players been developing fine? In terms of ability and attributes - that's my bigger concern.

I am currently wondering whether to abort the save or carry on, would like to do the latter as I have already put in a lot into it!

I am in to my 3rd season, have 4 academy/reserves prospects(who admittedly I inherited) in the 1st team now.I am using an attribute masking skin to add some more realism. I am one of the less well off Dutch teams in the top division. Just as a sample here are two of them with their all time training,

image.png.1f82e38c3f36102019a5d8d155933b29.png

image.png.1c45fcf4f264b58bff9e21089a0deb64.png

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, karanhsingh said:

I saw that. How many seasons have you played with this mod - have your players been developing fine? In terms of ability and attributes - that's my bigger concern.

I am currently wondering whether to abort the save or carry on, would like to do the latter as I have already put in a lot into it!

Yea it doesn’t seem to effect it much.

Also, player development could use some slowing down... so it’s beneficial even if it did. And more realistic, that you’d need to rely more on improving training facilities and coaches.

Edited by majesticeternity
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So I have made some of the recommended changes - now I am dealing with player unhappiness with training. They want more quickness training etc. Did you guys just ignore them?

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4 hours ago, karanhsingh said:

So I have made some of the recommended changes - now I am dealing with player unhappiness with training. They want more quickness training etc. Did you guys just ignore them?

Yes, lol. In fm there’s generally always someone complaining about training even on full vanilla setup. But you can always add it a bit for them. 

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So I just finished one season with this mod - overall a lot more injuries for sure. Some of the tips have helped manage things a little better.

Here is the overall injury table at the end of the season -

Injuries.thumb.jpg.2df277571e9d0ea46b836feb0a2728be.jpg

I think I have realized that the biggest issue is recurring injuries - a player comes back and then within a few days he is struck down again. Although it's not usually the same injury, which is strange. Here are the 3 main culprits -

1084286384_arizainj.thumb.jpg.caf3ee23f042fc13f7c9a9f55a692c90.jpg

41843751_yeisoninj.thumb.jpg.d96a5e05e161ee42c0259eac994293dc.jpg

1902351675_pedroinj.thumb.jpg.b899db4a02352ea12d09e7e8bdf44fda.jpg

Yeison Guzman only joined us in January and had no less than eight injuries in 5 months. Insane. 

I used an editor to check the injury proneness of these 3 players - Ariza is 11, Yeison 12 and Pelagio 14. So not that high, except maybe the latter. 

I have started resting players for a day or two when they are considered high risk for injury, but I think I need advice on how to tackle this particular issue - how do you ensure a player does not get injured again when they just get back? I noticed one of the posts said sending them for rehab - is that the general rehab option that pops up in the additional focus in training? That's the only thing I haven't done as yet.

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6 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

So I just finished one season with this mod - overall a lot more injuries for sure. Some of the tips have helped manage things a little better.

Here is the overall injury table at the end of the season -

 

I think I have realized that the biggest issue is recurring injuries - a player comes back and then within a few days he is struck down again. Although it's not usually the same injury, which is strange. Here are the 3 main culprits -

 

Yeison Guzman only joined us in January and had no less than eight injuries in 5 months. Insane. 

I used an editor to check the injury proneness of these 3 players - Ariza is 11, Yeison 12 and Pelagio 14. So not that high, except maybe the latter. 

I have started resting players for a day or two when they are considered high risk for injury, but I think I need advice on how to tackle this particular issue - how do you ensure a player does not get injured again when they just get back? I noticed one of the posts said sending them for rehab - is that the general rehab option that pops up in the additional focus in training? That's the only thing I haven't done as yet.

It's nice to see you keep working at it!

@Crazy_Ivan can add his tips if he wishes..

But it's just really slowly getting a player back up to speed. Yes, the general rehab for additional focus in training. Rest for a few days after return. Bring them on a sub instead of immediately starting, or only play them half a game, things like that. Have them play a youth game to get their sharpness back up.

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