Really struggling as Barcelona

[zigaliro]

Hey,

I just started a save with FC Barcelona and we are really struggling. I`m trying to play a possession based football with 4-2-3-1 formation.

This is how my tactic looks:

 

And these are our results:

 

As you can see we are not doing too well. Any suggestions on what`s wrong with my tactic and what I could improve? 

[Justified]

The first thing that stands out, and it's a big one, you're too slow on build-up. Not your fault, a lot of people make the same mistake thinking all those "safe" options in possession means you won't loose the ball and build up to the perfect goal. Just doesn't happen that way.

Think of it this way. You're building up with short passes at the back (Play out of Defence) and then the ball tempo is slow, made even slower by passing short and then you're trying to work the ball into the box so no risky passing. Who would want to watch that?  

So it's your in possession instructions that need tweaking. It might even be something as simple as taking off Lower Tempo or dial it up higher. See what works but it needs changing.

[OleGunnarSolscharl]

Personally I would alway have Messi in a playermaker role - you want him to have as much of the ball as possible. I also think Dembele's attributes are far more suited to being a winger than inside forward, but other than that I don't see any major problems with the tactic, although I'd certainly remove the player narrower shout. 

Something I'm doing in my Barca save is using Sergi Roberto as an IWB to add more midfield presence and security, and that with the "exploit the middle" instruction helps us create central overloads to regain and retain possession, and also draw defenders in so we can release our wide players into space. 

If you need more help I think it'd be useful to share more specifics for some of the issues you're having. I think personnel is key too and that midfield pair isn't one I'd pick. I'm in my 2nd season and it's going a lot better than my first, largely down to ditching Pique and Busquets for Todibo (BWM) and Araujo (BPD). If you want to press high those probably aren't the players to do it for you. 

 

[Experienced Defender]

4231 is a good choice of formation for possession football, as it allows you to press the opposition higher up the pitch more effectively. So it's just a couple of (relatively small) tweaks to roles, duties and instructions that you need to make.

Here is an example of how roles and duties can be tweaked for better space creation and utilization:

CFsu

IWsu       AMat/TQ       IFat

CMde   DLPsu

WBsu   CDde  CDde    WBsu

SKde/su

Basically, I've made only 3 tweaks to your roles, but more than enough to make a notable difference. 

P.S: Play Pjanic as the DLP and Busquets as the CM on defend. 

In terms of instructions, I would suggest the following:

- remove the narrow width and just leave it on default (medium), because you are a top team so you should not limit your attacking options and thus play straight into the hands of your defensive opponents

- you use too many possession-friendly instructions in possession (plus the hold shape in transition), which makes it easier for the opposition to defend by giving them enough time to consolidate and get back into their defensive shape ("shell")

In other words, playing possession football does not mean that you need to have overkill of possession. 

Overlap on one flank and underlap on the other is also something you may want to consider. 

[Johnny Ace]

As the other fellas said, the TI's are overkill then have you really thought about your players roles in a possession system? Wingbacks aren't possession friendly, they want to run on the ball = loss of possession risk.  IF's like to run on the ball & play risky passes = loss of possession risk. SK's play risky passes = loss of possession risk etc 

Try toning down the TIs & player roles to find a happy medium of keeping possession & not nerfing your attack   

I'd watch that Heasca match back & note down where things went wrong 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Johnny Ace

[Luizinho]

On 27/11/2020 at 23:03, Justified said:

The first thing that stands out, and it's a big one, you're too slow on build-up. Not your fault, a lot of people make the same mistake thinking all those "safe" options in possession means you won't loose the ball and build up to the perfect goal. Just doesn't happen that way.

Think of it this way. You're building up with short passes at the back (Play out of Defence) and then the ball tempo is slow, made even slower by passing short and then you're trying to work the ball into the box so no risky passing. Who would want to watch that?  

So it's your in possession instructions that need tweaking. It might even be something as simple as taking off Lower Tempo or dial it up higher. See what works but it needs changing.

I'm using something similar to the OP (possession orientated system with shorter passing, lower tempo and narrower team width).

How are you able to dominate the ball without these instructions?

Also, I guess the same question, but how do you play an possession oriented system (slow, patient build up) but with the penetration of a Pep's Barca/City? As I would think certain instructions would contradict one or the other.

[Justified]

On 29/11/2020 at 20:28, Luizinho said:

I'm using something similar to the OP (possession orientated system with shorter passing, lower tempo and narrower team width).

How are you able to dominate the ball without these instructions?

Also, I guess the same question, but how do you play an possession oriented system (slow, patient build up) but with the penetration of a Pep's Barca/City? As I would think certain instructions would contradict one or the other.

tbh I never play slow tempo personally because I don't see the point when you have technically better players. When you switch from Slow + Short to Fast + Short you see a massive difference and that's because you move the other team around more. I don't think I've even ventured lower then standard tempo on any of my saves because I don't like slow tempo. Bare in mind aswell that shortening passing slows the tempo slightly as well so when you mix short, slow, PooD and WiB it just is an overkill. IMO a Guardiola replication would be Positive, Short, PooD and WiB without the low tempo. 

[Luizinho]

28 minutes ago, Justified said:

tbh I never play slow tempo personally because I don't see the point when you have technically better players. When you switch from Slow + Short to Fast + Short you see a massive difference and that's because you move the other team around more. I don't think I've even ventured lower then standard tempo on any of my saves because I don't like slow tempo. Bare in mind aswell that shortening passing slows the tempo slightly as well so when you mix short, slow, PooD and WiB it just is an overkill. IMO a Guardiola replication would be Positive, Short, PooD and WiB without the low tempo. 

Thanks for this

I guess Lower Tempo can be used to manage games, by slowing down the game and getting on the ball more. I've also read that if your creating lots of low scoring chances, lowering the tempo can allow your players to create better chances but being slightly more patient.

[Justified]

7 minutes ago, Luizinho said:

Thanks for this

I guess Lower Tempo can be used to manage games, by slowing down the game and getting on the ball more. I've also read that if your creating lots of low scoring chances, lowering the tempo can allow your players to create better chances but being slightly more patient.

Possibilities are endless. Again I'd do neither but that's just me  Funnily enough in systems I've created to be more cautious or see out matches I've never had lower then Higher Tempo. There are other things you can do with mentality and roles to effect things and that's usually what I do. I want zip in my play, regardless of the situation.