Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community

Teams in playable and non-playable leagues not generating enough players from their youth intakes

obasa_G

By obasa_G,
in All Other Gameplay

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Popular Post
obasa_G

obasa_G

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted

Good evening, I posted this issue on the FM21 Beta bugs forum on 15/11/2020 and the link to the post is here. It appears that the issue with the generation of players from the youth intake of clubs in playable and non-playable leagues is still apparent.

Summary:  A.I. controlled teams in playable and non-playable leagues are not generating enough players from their youth intake after simulating more than 15 years into the future. I have uploaded a save named "ObasaYouthIntakeTest.fm" which expounds on the issue further.

Description:  When compared to FM19 and FM20, the amount of players (newgens) generated by A.I. controlled teams from playable and non-playable leagues in  FM21 has decreased by a significant amount after going at least 10 years into the future. In the save I uploaded to the SI cloud service, I loaded just the English leagues along with an advanced database setup adding the players from top clubs and top divisions which made the player count about 82,000 or 83,000. Initially, the youth intake of teams where about normal.

 

Below is an image of the youth intake of Manchester United in the 2023/2024 season.

Manchester United 2023/2024 Youth Intake 

 

Here is the youth intake of Manchester united in the 2041/2042 season

Manchester United 2041/2042 Youth Intake

 

You can see the drop in the number of newgens generated reduces gradually to the point where teams in playable leagues controlled by the AI produce on 2 or 3 newgens per youth intake. 

NOTE: The youth intakes of player controlled teams are not affected by this "bug". Only the AI controlled teams are hit with this issue.

 

The next example I will present will be from a non-playable team with all its players loaded from the advanced database option. Below is the youth intake of Bayern Munich in the 2023/2024 season

Bayern 2023/2024 Youth Intake

 

Now here is the youth intake of Bayern in the 2041/2042 season

Bayern 2041/2042 Youth Intake

 

For the teams in the non-playable leagues youth intakes were alright at first but as I simulated further into the future the intakes stopped producing players. This coupled with the issue of player production in playable leagues dropped my player count from about 82,000 in at the start of the 2020/2021 season to 36,000 in the middle of the 2041/2042 season.

 

The issues mentioned above have also led to the depletion of players in  the Under -18s and Under- 23s of teams in playable leagues. Below is the Under-18 team of Man utd in the 2041/2042 season.

Manchester United 2041/2042 Under-18 team

 

I see this issue as a bug because I enjoy starting my saves after I have simulated 10-20 years in the future. It's the way I have been playing my FM saves for years now. I just hope that this issue will be resolved by the time the next patch is rolled out.

Thank you :).

15
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • SI Staff
Andrew James

Andrew James

Posted
  • SI Staff
Posted

Hi @obasa_G

Thank you very much for your detailed post, it will help us get this one fixed.

On 24/11/2020 at 17:35, obasa_G said:

I loaded just the English leagues along with an advanced database setup adding the players from top clubs and tip divisions which made the player count about 82,000 or 83,000

I think the issue is more extreme in your example than any other we've seen due to this - the problem seems to be with clubs in inactive leagues, and with inactive clubs accounting for so much of the player count in your save, the decline in numbers is therefore increased.

I believe the issue with active clubs (such as Man Utd in your screenshots) is a knock-on from the issues with inactive clubs, but I'll keep you updated with any more info as I get it :thup:

Thanks again,

Andrew

1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh_bfc

Josh_bfc

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 27/11/2020 at 09:12, Mojo_Pin said:

Is there an official acknowledgement of this, as I wish to send it to Steam to show the game was not released to a satisfactory standard, and therefore a refund should be approved.

How dare they make a game which has issues in it, absolutely disgusting of them. We as players should have a right to play a game with 0 issue WHATSOEVER and it's utterly disgusting that they didn't sit down and go through every possible bug in the game before they release it to us. 

 

 

 

grow up mate, the game has just been released, every game has bugs and they're clearly working on them otherwise there wouldn't be updates to game, like there has been. Be patient....

Edited by Josh_bfc
2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Mojo_Pin

Mojo_Pin

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Josh_bfc said:

How dare they make a game which has issues in it, absolutely disgusting of them. We as players should have a right to play a game with 0 issue WHATSOEVER and it's utterly disgusting that they didn't sit down and go through every possible bug in the game before they release it to us. 

 

 

 

grow up mate, the game has just been released, every game has bugs and they're clearly working on them otherwise there wouldn't be updates to game, like there has been. Be patient....

You actually summed it up well there. Through testeing and a beta release, they still never noticed that youth prospects were dwindling year upon year. Quite amazing really. They weren't patient regarding the release of the game, why should they expect anything different than those who pay for it. I only play long-term saves, so essentially I have nothing right now, except access to run a game that doesn't function properly.

3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Domoboy23

Domoboy23

Posted
Posted

@Andrew James just to note, same issue on my save. Although also noticing it on my active leagues, so teams like Man U, Liverpool etc in 2027 and they have anything from 5-10 players in their u18 squad. As opposed to previous editions when it's nearer to 20. As stated above, inactive leagues AND countries not loaded having zero youth players for national teams also

3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • SI Staff
Andrew James

Andrew James

Posted
  • SI Staff
Posted

Hi guys,

Thanks for the extra info provided on this one, we're trying to get it fixed ASAP. 

We had some issues raised in the beta regarding newgen birthday windows and ages and we think this is linked to the current issue with player count, but we're trying to get to the bottom of it. 

@Domoboy23 how many players did these teams have in their intakes, out of interest? This can be found on Transfer History -> Youth Transfers. 

2
Link to post
Share on other sites
jackritchie7

jackritchie7

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, DartsFM said:

So you're telling me there is a bug that has been in the game since the beta and it's still here 2 weeks after full release? potentially ruining any saves that are currently on the go.

 

Absolute joke. 

agreed.... hope it can be solved asap and most of all be save game compatible, hopefully find out asap as its very frustrating. But do appreciate the work going on hopefully to resolve the issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • SI Staff
Andrew James

Andrew James

Posted
  • SI Staff
Posted

Quick update on this one: once we have a fix ready it will be save game compatible. 

We're working hard to get this one addressed ASAP and your patience is greatly appreciated. 

Apologies again for the frustration caused by this bug, I'll keep you updated as and when there's more info. 

 

7
Link to post
Share on other sites
jackritchie7

jackritchie7

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Quick update on this one: once we have a fix ready it will be save game compatible. 

We're working hard to get this one addressed ASAP and your patience is greatly appreciated. 

Apologies again for the frustration caused by this bug, I'll keep you updated as and when there's more info. 

 

save game compatible!!!!! you've made my night and saved my save! superb thanks a lot :):):)

1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • SI Staff
Andrew James

Andrew James

Posted
  • SI Staff
Posted

The latest update contains a fix for this issue. We’ve increased the leniency for top clubs’ player count in non-playable leagues which should increase the likelihood of certain clubs receiving youth intakes each year.

The fix is save game compatible but this doesn’t mean that loads of new newgens will start appearing in all nations in your save straight away. Newgens have a pre-generation date around 3 months before they appear in game, so the fix will apply to the next pre-generation dates, rather than next intake date.

I also want to clarify that the amount of newgens that generate in the first season in non-playable leagues shouldn’t be expected every season. We use newgens to replace retiring players and keep the overall player count relatively consistent, in FM21 there are more retirements than usual in the first season, which we think is a result of more free agents at game start and the COVID 19 financial implications meaning many clubs won’t offer as many contracts. So after the inflated first season intakes, the game balances out and the player count in these inactive leagues is deemed acceptable and therefore they may not receive intakes again for some time.

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, we’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too. The extreme example displayed in the original post above is a result of loading players into inactive leagues via Advanced Options at game start, and the majority of saves will not be affected to this extent. 

Hopefully that all makes sense! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks again for your patience.

1
Link to post
Share on other sites
jackritchie7

jackritchie7

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Andrew James said:

The latest update contains a fix for this issue. We’ve increased the leniency for top clubs’ player count in non-playable leagues which should increase the likelihood of certain clubs receiving youth intakes each year.

The fix is save game compatible but this doesn’t mean that loads of new newgens will start appearing in all nations in your save straight away. Newgens have a pre-generation date around 3 months before they appear in game, so the fix will apply to the next pre-generation dates, rather than next intake date.

I also want to clarify that the amount of newgens that generate in the first season in non-playable leagues shouldn’t be expected every season. We use newgens to replace retiring players and keep the overall player count relatively consistent, in FM21 there are more retirements than usual in the first season, which we think is a result of more free agents at game start and the COVID 19 financial implications meaning many clubs won’t offer as many contracts. So after the inflated first season intakes, the game balances out and the player count in these inactive leagues is deemed acceptable and therefore they may not receive intakes again for some time.

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, we’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too. The extreme example displayed in the original post above is a result of loading players into inactive leagues via Advanced Options at game start, and the majority of saves will not be affected to this extent. 

Hopefully that all makes sense! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks again for your patience.

Thanks a lot bud! doing a top job with these updates to make the game even better and sort out any problems! Great to see further future fixes are being ironed out and hopefully fixed asap.  So glad its going to be save game compatible that to me like many others is massive. :):):)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • SI Staff
Andrew James

Andrew James

Posted
  • SI Staff
Posted
12 minutes ago, obasa_G said:

So, will it be advisable to load players from the advanced database option; like the save mentioned above?

Sorry, probably didn't make this clear enough.

The example in the original post used this option, and because of that the player count was affected more than it would in "standard" setups at game start.

I would advise that you load leagues as playable like normal for any nations you wish to play in or receive large numbers of newgens in - and not to use the Advanced Options to load extra players into inactive leagues. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
obasa_G

obasa_G

Posted
  • Author
Posted
6 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

Sorry, probably didn't make this clear enough.

The example in the original post used this option, and because of that the player count was affected more than it would in "standard" setups at game start.

I would advise that you load leagues as playable like normal for any nations you wish to play in or receive large numbers of newgens in - and not to use the Advanced Options to load extra players into inactive leagues. 

Thank you for the reply @Andrew James

So, with reference to what you said, when will I be able to use the advanced options to load players? Is it when all the kinks have been worked out?

1
Link to post
Share on other sites
RinusFM

RinusFM

Posted
Posted (edited)

Looks fine for me at the moment. Perhaps it's beta and post-beta save issue? I need to test more, tho. Africa only 280 regens, but will see next year. My game is concentrated around Europe, tho. World has 500 more regens in 2022. Probably due 2021 missing 3 months. Will see how 2023 goes. Imma in May at the moment.

sefsef.png

Edited by RinusFM
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
Domoboy23

Domoboy23

Posted
Posted

Still noticing this issue. Just 2 seasons into my save and bear in mind all the following leagues I have active...
England U18's
- 15 players
Chelsea U18's 16 players
Southampton - 7 players
Tottenham - 9 players

Celtic U18's - 13 players
Kilmarnock - 1 player
Hibernian - 6 players

1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • SI Staff
Andrew James

Andrew James

Posted
  • SI Staff
Posted

The latest update contains a fix for the lack of newgens generating in inactive leagues, as well as further tweaks to intake and retirement numbers.

The changes are save game compatible and hopefully you will now see a much more consistent spread of youth intakes generating at top clubs across the world in every season.

On 16/12/2020 at 16:51, Domoboy23 said:

Still noticing this issue. Just 2 seasons into my save and bear in mind all the following leagues I have active...
England U18's
- 15 players
Chelsea U18's 16 players
Southampton - 7 players
Tottenham - 9 players

Celtic U18's - 13 players
Kilmarnock - 1 player
Hibernian - 6 players

The average youth intake size for a top active club is 5-8 players, and it can often be less than this for clubs with less established academies. If a team has virtual (greyed out) players in a youth side, this does not necessarily mean they aren’t generating enough youth players. For example, if a team doesn’t buy enough, or loans out too many U23 players, they will then need to promote some players from u18s as the more senior squad takes priority.

Unfortunately, we are aware of some cases where total player count may still decrease in certain instances. We believe the root of this is a high number of low ability free agents retiring after not being picked up by low reputation clubs.

Custom db setups with all players based in certain areas loaded are more prone to this, as they include an unsustainably high number of free agents at game start.

Player count is different for every game and will always fluctuate throughout a save, as well as throughout a season, depending on what stage of the various retirement / intake cycles you’re at.

We’re working on ways to try and keep these numbers more balanced across the board, if you have any examples of players retiring who shouldn’t be, please start a new post in the bugs forum with relevant save game files.

Thank you.

7
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...