Jump to content

Football Manager 2021 *Official* Feedback Thread


Recommended Posts

It's been 3 weeks since the last hotfix, can we expect another hotfix or will we have to wait until the winter update for the next improvements to the game?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

7 hours ago, mfjin said:

It's been 3 weeks since the last hotfix, can we expect another hotfix or will we have to wait until the winter update for the next improvements to the game?

A hotfix is usually only released if there is a major issue that is affecting a number of users.  The next major update will be the January transfer window update due at  the end of February/beginning of March, so we are not expecting any further hotfixes that we know of

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, BuzzR said:

With all due respect, should these be considered minor issues ?

 

 

Compared to constant crashes, yes, but they are annoyances that I'm certain SI are looking to resolve soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, FrazT said:

A hotfix is usually only released if there is a major issue that is affecting a number of users.  The next major update will be the January transfer window update due at  the end of February/beginning of March, so we are not expecting any further hotfixes that we know of

WOW so many major issues with the Pre- Editor and the game itself i would of though updates would be a common thing by now 

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, kingpoodle said:

What's the point when I'm always buying buggy game?

The most simple stats and player analysis are not even working during match game.

And I have to wait almost 2 months for a new update which might not even solve the issue. Then It will be delayed until June/July where they will be working on FM 2022 and comes up with something buggy.

The cycle just repeats. 

 

I like the game, the match engine of FM 2021. But it really sucks when there are still obvious bugs after 3 months of release. 

They posted a record sales for the FM series this year, so that cycle is not gonna change.

We will have to assume that FM will always have bugs, or just don't buy it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

They posted a record sales for the FM series this year, so that cycle is not gonna change.

We will have to assume that FM will always have bugs, or just don't buy it.

As rubbish as it is i agree with you, we all need to learn to accept that FM will always have bugs and the best time to buy FM in Feb/March when it has the latest update and is on sale for a very good price. 

Over the years ive become way more aware of bugs and balance issues, i remember the days when i didn't really notice bugs in FM and played along without a care in the world, now all sorts of things annoy me and over the last 3 years this has prevented me from playing FM. Now im just trying to learn to play and accept the fact FM will Always have issues. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

As rubbish as it is i agree with you, we all need to learn to accept that FM will always have bugs and the best time to buy FM in Feb/March when it has the latest update and is on sale for a very good price. 

Over the years ive become way more aware of bugs and balance issues, i remember the days when i didn't really notice bugs in FM and played along without a care in the world, now all sorts of things annoy me and over the last 3 years this has prevented me from playing FM. Now im just trying to learn to play and accept the fact FM will Always have issues. 

Accept that FM will always have bug? 
It's like buying a car and you say, "you gotta accept that the car engine has issue, it's normal." 
 

I guess it's the way they produce the game just like FIFA and PES. They only focus on the game for 1 year (or less) before moving on to the next project. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, kingpoodle said:

Accept that FM will always have bug? 
It's like buying a car and you say, "you gotta accept that the car engine has issue, it's normal." 
 

I guess it's the way they produce the game just like FIFA and PES. They only focus on the game for 1 year (or less) before moving on to the next project. 

Yep exactly that. You got it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But as this is the only football manager game in the market, it is what it is.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, XaW said:

Compared to constant crashes, yes, but they are annoyances that I'm certain SI are looking to resolve soon.

If we are going technical about it .. let me put it this way :

if you have a car that is working but all on board displays are showing crazy / unreliable data or no data at all, would you drive it ? Cause technically is working... :confused:

FM21 is executing and doing something when I am using it  - so technically is working, but there are 2 issues :

1. I don't know if it's doing the right thing ( FME v QME ), and with other aspects

2. I don't know if it's doing something at all ( missing/not registering stats ).

Some folks are talking about other things regarding youth intake - so I really don't think you should "drive this car" for a long trip.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BuzzR said:

If we are going technical about it .. let me put it this way :

if you have a car that is working but all on board displays are showing crazy / unreliable data or no data at all, would you drive it ? Cause technically is working... :confused:

FM21 is executing and doing something when I am using it  - so technically is working, but there are 2 issues :

1. I don't know if it's doing the right thing ( FME v QME ), and with other aspects

2. I don't know if it's doing something at all ( missing/not registering stats ).

Some folks are talking about other things regarding youth intake - so I really don't think you should "drive this car" for a long trip.

Why the car analogy? It's been done to bits, a piece of software is not a car.

There are issues with the game, but they are not game breaking such as the being unable to start with graphic card X, or OS version Y. They can be immersion breaking, sure, but you can still play the game without having major issues regarding it. I had a chat with a friend who has about 500 hours in so far, and he hadn't noticed....

SI know about the issues and are working towards improving them and I'm certain they will fix them as soon as possible.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one to finds Brazilean teams to be stupid broken (as in strong) compared to teams from Argentina or any other country? Every save I've played ends up un utter domination of Brazilean teams in Libertadores and Sudamericana and that's quite unrealistic. This year for example, I'm playing as Liverpool from Uruguay and in the Libertadores QF every team but me was from Brazil, last year was 8 teams from Brazil, 7 teams again in 2021 and 5 teams in the first season (only kind of reasonable number).

Edited by MAMRICCA
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, 4football said:

hahah
exactly what i wrote few seconds ago :D

Does the in-game editor's 'Freeze Attributes' work? Then unfreeze at, say, 35.  

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

Does the in-game editor's 'Freeze Attributes' work? Then unfreeze at, say, 35.  

 

 

I have no idea. I do not use editors. I expect that game provides +- realistic curve for stats. Not like in a game player is 30 old and 15 pace and in 1 season it will drop to 10 or 11. And the next year in fm he will have 15 or 14...

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, 4football said:

I have no idea. I do not use editors. I expect that game provides +- realistic curve for stats. Not like in a game player is 30 old and 15 pace and in 1 season it will drop to 10 or 11. And the next year in fm he will have 15 or 14...

Obviously the game needs to be recalibrated in how it handles older players - just suggesting a possible workaround until they do. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 4football said:

- broken stats
- broken crosses
- broken players ratings

can you run a game without it? yes so it is not critical
can you enjoy it? ofc not
maybe they will get record sales next year also
but for sure without me

ah and
minor problems:
insane physical degradation after 30 or 31
players demands new contract after 1 year of brand new for 5 years
goalkeepers no do not follow personal instructions and hoof the ball to the opposition
and some more things that i forgot for the last few month without a game

Player phisycal degradation has been around for years. Players like Aubomeyang with 19-20 pace end up in a few years with pace below 10? This is complete nonsense and nobody wants to sign players older than 30 which in real life hapens all the time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, XaW said:

Why the car analogy? It's been done to bits, a piece of software is not a car.

There are issues with the game, but they are not game breaking such as the being unable to start with graphic card X, or OS version Y. They can be immersion breaking, sure, but you can still play the game without having major issues regarding it. I had a chat with a friend who has about 500 hours in so far, and he hadn't noticed....

SI know about the issues and are working towards improving them and I'm certain they will fix them as soon as possible.

That's the point of an analogy, to explain a point using something else... But that's not the point ( hehe! ).

I was trying to say that we cannot reduce the minor/major issues discussion to technical problems - if it's not working on OS a /b/c or with video drivers version a/b/c.

It's obvious the product doesn't deliver the expected features - and this is a major issue.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rp1966 said:

Obviously the game needs to be recalibrated in how it handles older players - just suggesting a possible workaround until they do. 

"until they do". This has been a problem for ages. And they will not do anything until people here stop defending this limited, now already primitive development system. 

But I really hope they do. Unless they decide again that it is more important to add an option to throw a bottle. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:

If I Fire my Assistant, will that remove the Dugout? Just wondering. 

Probably not. But you can remove it by skinning.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BuzzR said:

It's obvious the product doesn't deliver the expected features - and this is a major issue.

This is it, correct stats is absolutely an expected feature and something we shouldn't and never do think twice about whether it will work or not when buying the game.

A small bug to do with player interactions, or if only 1 of the stats had issues then fair enough that wouldn't be a major issue. But when almost no stats are reliable AND you can't compare players stats in your league with other leagues its basically a mockery to say that it isn't a major issue for a game that has its stats as one of its main selling points (hence the introduction of xG) . The vast number of stats in the game are available because its what the customers want.

Anyway I dont want to be all negative because I know the team are working hard at this and that is appreciated, also apparently there's a chance there might be a match engine update which could fix these issues to some degree, so again a big thanks to the developers (who Im sure were aware of these issues and warned management about how the stats changes could affect stats quality). What I feel isn't appreciated by some here is the notion thats been put across that its not a major issue because it doesn't cause the game to crash, when we know there are issues SI regard as major which dont cause the game to crash.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

This is it, correct stats is absolutely an expected feature and something we shouldn't and never do think twice about whether it will work or not when buying the game.

A small bug to do with player interactions, or if only 1 of the stats had issues then fair enough that wouldn't be a major issue. But when almost no stats are reliable AND you can't compare players stats in your league with other leagues its basically a mockery to say that it isn't a major issue for a game that has its stats as one of its main selling points (hence the introduction of xG) . The vast number of stats in the game are available because its what the customers want.

Anyway I dont want to be all negative because I know the team are working hard at this and that is appreciated, also apparently there's a chance there might be a match engine update which could fix these issues to some degree, so again a big thanks to the developers (who Im sure were aware of these issues and warned management about how the stats changes could affect stats quality). What I feel isn't appreciated by some here is the notion thats been put across that its not a major issue because it doesn't cause the game to crash, when we know there are issues SI regard as major which dont cause the game to crash.

What's major to some isn't necessarily major to others. It's not really worth getting bogged down in it, because ultimately, what matters with effect will be SI's ranking of it

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BuzzR said:

That's the point of an analogy, to explain a point using something else... But that's not the point ( hehe! ).

I was trying to say that we cannot reduce the minor/major issues discussion to technical problems - if it's not working on OS a /b/c or with video drivers version a/b/c.

It's obvious the product doesn't deliver the expected features - and this is a major issue.

 

I know what an analogy is, I simply doesn't think a car is in anyway possible to compare to a piece of software, so that point is moot.

And I understand the frustration user can have, even with what objectively could be a minor issue, since for some it can impact their whole experience. What is considered a critical error is very often related to reliability of the software. The outcomes are the 2nd, and for the most part the game delivers. There are reported issues regarding some key stats, but those have been there since the game was released, so if it's that important, why haven't the outcry happened before several months after the release? The answer is that no one noticed until then. So the criticality of that bug cannot be considered major if no one the hundreds of thousands of users reported it before several months had gone by.

The other noticeable here from the feedback is the ratings, and "everyone" said it was the fullbacks. SI looked at it and found some issues and changed it, and now "everyone" says it central midfielders. And I kind of agree it's something there, but it's not happening for everyone, or every player. For my own game, I experience it with one player, but another who I rotate in into the same role does not play poorly. So I imagine this is a very complex issue and I think SI are doing well in taking their time to fix/tweak it. If they had jumped the gun on that and thrown out a change that broke something else then everyone would complain about that as well. This is also the reason why users who experience the issue should report it in the bugs sections, because the more examples SI have to work with the more they can be certain they are doing the right thing to fix it.

That said, everyone are entitled to their own opinion about the game, and everyone is welcome to give feedback here as long as they are respectful and constructive in their comments (And I don't mean that yours aren't respectful). Doing so will also make it much more likely one of the devs will give a more detailed answer as well. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, McClane29 said:

I'm finding it difficult to enjoy FM21 due to its chaotic interface.

The match day screen is an absolute mess. Obviously the inability to have widgets anymore is a big loss, especially when playing in 2D. However, the in-between match highlights just results in everything pinging up at once on your screen with little though given to how it is presented. It's almost impossible to take information in. There are also pop-ups with the latest scores and assistant feedback which repeats what has been pointed out in the dugout, only to block part of the pitch during highlights.

As for interviews and player/staff interaction; these are the least desireable aspects of the game already. Having a dreadful layout with players dotted all over and having the conversation panels being really small on the screen make these tasks even less desirable.

Think I'll have to wait for FM22 and hope they implement a redesign.

You can fix most of this with skinning. It’s almost as if the game has been designed as bare bones so that we CAN skin it ...

Edited by Tyburn
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

What's major to some isn't necessarily major to others. It's not really worth getting bogged down in it, because ultimately, what matters with effect will be SI's ranking of it

Yep agreed,and Im sure there are lots of people that havent noticed the issue. And the player ratings bug was a major issue for lots of people but it wasnt for me, but just because I didnt see it as a major bug doesnt mean it isnt major bug and SI seemed to treat it like it was. Anyway as you said at the end of the day SI decide and they use the customer base to help guide them.

Side point and this is just a general note  to everyone but this forum will always have the most invested players and therefore the loudest complaints. This is also good though as it helps SI with bugfixing and really helps them to find the areas that work well and those that need improvement. However I and everyone else from the posters to the moderators should always be respectful of one another as we are both vitally important in FMs development. 

Thanks for the help youve put into the Key Tackles and stats bug thread @themadsheep2001

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Delvi said:

Player development has a great impact on gameplay and immersion. I would like to discuss with all of you, using also examples related to football IRL.

First of all I want to make clear my opinion about the current PA / CA system:

- PA exists IRL and I think it is implemented correctly in the game, because everyone of us born with a certain DNA and through the first years of life he start to show and develop specific skills and talent, since the players and newgen in the game are already 15-16 yo, they already went through childhood and develop somehow coordination, technique and so on, besides their current attributes (and so their CA), they have already a certain potential. I have been playing football since I was 6 yo, immediately it was clear that I wasn't a new Pelé or Maradona, when I was 15 yo I knew for sure I could not be a professional, at that age there is a certain potential for physical, technical and mental attributes;

- CA is defined by the mix of physical, technical and mental attributes related to different positions on the pitch: I think also this is correct already and IMHO it is already fine tuned, it works well.

The real issue is the way physical, technical and mental attributes are changing across the years in the game. There is a pattern of player developing fast from 15-16 to 23-24 yo and then almost nothing happening until 30-31 when it's the beginning of a decay of physical attributes more or less dramatic. This kind of player development is making almost all of us playing with a certain pattern: build up a team of talented youngsters and wait season after season until they reach their full potential. I think this is the area which need a lot of improvement and I think we don't need to wait for FM22 or FM23, it can be fixed with a patch, of course it requires fine tuning and testing.

My point:

NOT ALL PLAYERS DEVELOP IN THE SAME WAY AND FOLLOWING THE SAME PATTERN AND THE "ENVIRONMENT" USUALLY HAS HUGE IMPACT ON PLAYER DEVELOPMENT: I strongly believe that this is the starting point if we want to improve the player development in the game. Now I start to describe how it works IRL and how should also work in the game, IMHO.

Lets consider a youngster, 15-16 yo in our team, he has certain traits:

- personality

 - CA (physical, technical and mental attributes)

- PA (it can be fixed or can be included in a certain range as -8, -9 and so on)

IRL the player will be affected by the environment (team reputation, league reputation, number of apps in first team or B team of youth teams, skills and personalities of team mates, ability of coaches and training facilities) and I think this is taken into account by the game and is implemented quite well, however I think there is room for improvement.

Physical, technical and mental attributes should improve with training, however for 70-80% of players the growth of mental attributes should not be that dramatic until 23-24, there should be room for improvement in this area going from 24 to 34.

It would not be realistic to have players becoming more fast or strong from 30 to 32 for instance, but there can be an improvement in mental attributes. Technical attributes should not vary dramatically, however the right training should put some +1 or +2 in certain areas.

The personality of player could be set up to change not only because of “environment” but also because of the age, as almost all of us become more wise and mature when becoming older.

The improvement of mental attributes in conjunction with improvement of certain hidden attributes such as consistency, important matches etc. should be more dramatic from 24-25 yo, this will add a lot in terms of gameplay: it will make sense to buy and sign players which are already 27-28 yo or even older than 30 yo, because they will still have the possibility to improve as players and to bring positive attitude to the team. IRL mental attributes and personality have huge impact during the match, furthermore personality have impact also outside the pitch. This latter aspect is already present in the game, but it can be made more relevant.

Now I would like to bring to you the example of some players and how they developed IRL.

Leo Messi: he had a development really “FMish”, since he reached his full potential already when he was 22-23yo and kept doing great until now, he is 33 and since a couple of years we noticed is playing different as he is not fast and explosive as he was in his prime (of course he still a top player);

Cristiano Ronaldo started his career as winger and with the time he lost some of acceleration and pace (he's great but not as 4-5 years ago) but improved enormously some mental skills such as composure and movement and became a n outstanding forward. Here we see another aspect: the ability when already 28-29yo to learn a new role and make it become the natural role;

Another example similar to Cristiano Ronaldo is Paolo Maldini: transition from left back to center back in the last years of his career and he kept a status of top player, winning other two Champions League;

Zlatan Ibrahimovic had a development similar to development of Cristiano Ronaldo, he didn't change the position but role and duties, furthermore he had a change in mentality and his “positive leadership” made him really important for AC Milan nowadays;

Ronaldo Nazario da Lima was a fast and explosive player in his first years, he made a change after, not because of age but because of the injuries he incurred: he became more “a striker” and won Champion League and World Cup with outstanding performances;

Luca Toni had a slow development, he didn't play in top teams until he joined Bayern Munich when he was already 30 yo. The same with national team, he has never been in it until he was 27 yo...and when 29 yo won the World Cup being really important for the team;

Antonio Cassano was a diamond, due to certain traits of his personality he had never reach his full potential (the potential of a top player), however the magic was still there and when the conditions (environment) where the right ones he performed exceptionally well after 25yo, in that certain moment the “CA” was the one of a top player.

What I would love to see in the game is some more variety in the way different players develop, in conjunction with improvement of mental attributes being more dramatic from 25 yo (not for everyone, but lets say for 80% of players) .

I agree with the variety of development arcs suggestion. Even just more uncertainty would be great. I agree with you that the big reason why this is so important is because it would open up different optimal squad building ideas rather than an endless pursuit of wonderkids.

A good example of a late-prime developing player is Jordan Henderson, whose situation in Liverpool encouraged him to progress from good to very good. If Henderson was on some mid-table team in the EPL, he probably would not have reached this peak. Conversely, we are seeing what a team like Chelsea is getting in terms of results from their "sign younger players for the first team" approach. They are unpredictable, as young players should be.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that we are a captive audience consumer base.

All we can do is hope that Si have enough pride to keep the standards as high as they possibly can and to be fair I think that they do.

Things like stats are obvious bugs that I honestly haven't seen in a previous version.

Also I do think that some of the bugs being posted about are not bugs at all and are a result of people not playing the game well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Every form of software has bugs. Even Microsoft Office doesn't work 100% perfectly 100% of the time.

Expecting SI to release a version of Football Manager without any bugs is like expecting Pfizer (or whoever) to produce a coronavirus vaccine that is 100% effective. It's just not going to happen. So either you lower your expectations and take FM for what it is... or you move on and do something else with your spare time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest frustration for me in the last 2-3 years is not just that the big patch doesn't come until Feb/march, but that after that we are told that no more fixes will be released until FMXX despite having clear issues admitted by SI. That strategy didn't happen in the past (or I have selective memory, that could be and somebody can probe me wrong with patch dates for past years) and we had much more small patches during the whole development cycle in between releases.

Imho the match engine patch releases should be done during the whole game cycle, as it's not that we get a whole new ME built form scratch every year but a constant evolution. So why don't we get all these small evolutions all year long? My only guess is that SI needs to stop releasing new ME versions so we are forced to buy FMXX+1 that imho is a wrong strategy. Most of us if not all, will keep buying the game every year not only because the updated ME but because the rest of the new features and the updated database. 

But anyway it's the same strategy that EA or 2K use and of course it works for all them, it's just that SI used to be a different kind of company and we miss these days.

After the critics about the "new" SI and nostalgia, I must say that this is the best FM in years for me and despite the issues I'm enjoying it much more than FM19 and FM20 that were more frustration than fun for me.

Edited by Icy
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Marko1989 said:

To me, the problem is lack of competition. SI can do whatever they want, slowly, and they don't have to worry about the sales because the game will always sell good. 

I can ignore most of the bugs. But I can't ignore for example they are not doing anything regarding older players declining too fast, like some of people here stated. 

And I can't ignore the the fact that they went a couple of years backwards when it comes to looks of 2D ME. That is something I always bring out, and they never even bothered to reply why 2D looks worse now. As I said, they can even make some things in the game worse, and not worry because there is no competition. 

ezgif.com-gif-maker.jpg.768f9b477a52544bd4dac69798fe6b84.jpg

 

I went on and on about the 2d presentation in FM20. It was truely awful. However this year it is much better, purely because now you can change the background from Death Star grey into whatever colour you like. Perhaps you could have last year, but I never found out how, and I searched ALOT.

I strongly recommend downloading the Match Screens Mod to enhance the in between highlights panels during matchday, if you haven’t already. Can be found in the Skinning Hideout part of the forum.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

Some interesting quotes from Guardiola about changing his tactics to demand less movement with the ball and more movement without it. FM could really do with PIs to do this.
 

 

 

I think the TI 'be More disciplined' covers this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

I went on and on about the 2d presentation in FM20. It was truely awful. However this year it is much better, purely because now you can change the background from Death Star grey into whatever colour you like. Perhaps you could have last year, but I never found out how, and I searched ALOT.

I strongly recommend downloading the Match Screens Mod to enhance the in between highlights panels during matchday, if you haven’t already. Can be found in the Skinning Hideout part of the forum.

Sorry, I am confused now. I've checked match screen topic recently and I didn't found a way to change the background. So, you can change the background to some color or you can choose any background you want? Maybe I've missed something in that topic

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...