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Football Manager 2021 *Official* Feedback Thread


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1 hour ago, orlyzao said:

I think his point is more about the fact that they managed to get only 1 shot in a whole match? IRL they're 8th in La Liga but when it comes to shots per game they're actually first.

not necessarily , with Getafe for example they only managed one shot on target the whole game.

 

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53 minutes ago, andu1 said:

not necessarily , with Getafe for example they only managed one shot on target the whole game

He's right though. Barcelona have the highest amount of shots per game in the league (on target as well). To bring this to FM 2021's new feature, xG, they also may be sitting eight place, but according to Expected Points, should sit 5th. They are scoring less than expected as well as conceding more than expected based on the quality of chances (xG). In other words, at least according to this model, whilst still hugely disappointing, they are also a bit unlucky. Usually, this doesn't last very long.

La liga xG Table and Scorers for the 2020/2021 season | Understat.com

I think the point made initially was how/why Barcelona would ever play as defensively that they don't even try to score -- which with just a single shot recorded, looks like may be the case here. Unless this was done with a Gegenpress or whatever OP exploit tactics which just pushes the AI teams back over and over again (and for which the AI has no reply), this is an issue with AI manager tactical picks. 

Edited by Svenc
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5 hours ago, rp1966 said:

13th in the first season. Currently doing OK - 6th at Xmas in second season with Michael Laudrup managing. But defensive minded 'AI' managers definitely need a different plan to sit behind the ball until the 80th minute then go all-out attack. However they've got Mourinho set-up doesn't work very well in this version - haven't seen him survive past Xmas of the 2020/21 season in any save so far. Also in my current FM full-fat save Mourinho has now been unemployed for a year, which looks like the high-reputation bug hitting again (demands too great for any offers).

Yup Jose, got the sack in my save as well, after 3rd round of FA Cup IIRC.

Definitely think they set him up with a tactic that doesn't get results/correctly use the players they have, while boosting Arteta's ability. No way should there be 10-12 places between Spurs and Arsenal... ok ok that comment depends on the direction ;-) But you get what I mean.

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20 matches Real-Bilbao. 16 Real Madrid wins, 4 draws 0-0. Full match, 2D. I want to be eligible to lose a home match as a favorite. And draws only with a score of 0-0 in the match, a strong middle peasant, speaks of the engine's shortcomings. Now this is not football. The chances of a home win are too high and there is no chance of defeat.

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43 minutes ago, nikkk said:

20 matches Real-Bilbao. 16 Real Madrid wins, 4 draws 0-0. Full match, 2D. I want to be eligible to lose a home match as a favorite. And draws only with a score of 0-0 in the match, a strong middle peasant, speaks of the engine's shortcomings. Now this is not football. The chances of a home win are too high and there is no chance of defeat.

20 matches is barely a sample size. Let alone not knowing all other factors around the game. 

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21 minutes ago, freddieos said:

I love all the sceptics to AI managers being too defensive on away games and home advantage being overpowered atm. 

Like, what game are they playing?

 

Well SI did acknowledge a bug that AI isn't attacking currently when behind. So there's definitely something finicky going on behind the scenes. Let's hope it's fixed for next patch. 

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The more I play this game the more I genuinely feel like the beta ME was swapped out for the original FM20 ME at full release. Really really not enjoying it at all anymore which is such a shame as I was loving this game for the first couple weeks!

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Worst FM I've played so far and I've been playing since fm12. Club stats bugs where the stats are always incorrect, french league says competition did not finish every year on club league position history (both bugs ignored when I've reported them so seems pointless having the report bug button in the beta) and the youth intake bug preventing me starting any long term saves. Not impressed at all and I usually love the game. 

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13 часов назад, Double0Seven сказал:

20 matches is barely a sample size. Let alone not knowing all other factors around the game. 

why so few? No bookmaker in the world will make the odds for the victory of a strong Athletic Bilbao 1 to 17. Both teams came up to the match in good conditions and morale. Caught up to 25 games .. 21 wins are the odds of 1 to 21. Should be no more than 1 to 5-6, I think in a home match and 1 to 4-5 on the road under the conditions that are in the game (both teams are in good condition and morality). And the coefficients they are closely related to statistics and mathematical expectation. Until fm brings the results at least to the mathematical expectation, there can be no question of any seriousness of the game. The problem is repeated several seasons + in the mobile version too. I can continue testing, but the conclusions are already there.
Again, in the away matches everything is more or less good with the results, but at home, fantastic is going on. When watching a full match, 2d

And I don't make substitutions during the match, the players are exhausted, they still can't lose

update: 40 matches  35 win / 5 draw (0-0) no chance for adequacy

Edited by nikkk
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8 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

can't find where I adjust squad status to lessen moans about agreed playing time;

On the main squad screen, right hand mouse click -> squad -> agreed playing time.  However, guess what might happen when you switch someone's playing time - yup, they get restless - either want a new contract if you up it or complain when you reduce it (and certainly agree there's too much of that).

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9 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

Don't think I've ever really looked for this annual thread before or commented in it but this version of the game is offkey, it's the only way to describe it.

The game or interface as everyone calls it looks smarter, feels smooth, but is just unnecessary in so many ways.  Too many interactions, pointless interruptions, worthless information just becoming one stupid click following another,  Its as though it has lost objective and is simply stuffed full of easy-clicking fluff that frankly isn't a game or a hobby.  It just....candyfloss.

I've only skimmed the last 3-5 pages but have already seen the comment that I relate to,  There is no immersion.  Its an intangible thing in many ways but FM'ers know when the game feels right, a save is one to savour, you're at home in your little fantasy world for a few minutes/hours.  But it's not here,  FM21 has no heartbeat its just a shiny thing.

Press conferences are both frequent & bloated.  Staff responsibilities have become an annoying chore.  Induction/help an interference.  Restless players literally too restless.  The match experience either OTT, or if build up is turned off, some sort of weird widgetless unhelpful thing.  Btw, what's with the silly hearts for player condition and that kinda nonsense?

And then a lower level winge list like youth players kinda hidden in a detached development centre away from the club (or so it feels); who needs a loan manager; how is a 3-5 year strategy helping anything; can't find where I adjust squad status to lessen moans about agreed playing time; don't care why the manager from the team my player is loaned from is calling me; don't care if I can point an imaginary finger or wave imaginary arms in a press conference and whether or not a reporter likes it; expected goals...expected what excuse me; and so on and so forth.

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.  Or in the case on FM, leave the base game alone but instead keep a damn close eye on the match engine and how tactics react with it.

 

Agree with you on most of this. I am still enjoying this iteration, moreso than I did FM20 due to ME improvements, but the UI and extra clicks are making it harder for me to get my head down and properly into a save. The issue of course for SI is they need to provide a new chassis to the game every year - updated ME and squad lists won't cut it generally, though I'm sure for the majority of the hardcore fans that would be just fine. We're into the realms of tweaked features rather than anything new - the question remains as to what's left for SI to implement from the real world into this game? I'm sure they've plenty of ideas up their sleeves, but this year's iteration def has a look of rehashed rather than refreshed.

The circumstances surrounding this year have most definitely played a part for SI I'm sure, but I'm just pleased the ME now resembles something much more fluid and varied than last year's - is it perfect? No - but then no version ever is. It's the most important aspect for me and although I've almost certainly seen a difference from BETA ME to fully released version (BETA I preferred), this version is bringing me joy again, albeit in smaller doses as I can't get stuck into the game properly yet.

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13 hours ago, nikkk said:

20 matches Real-Bilbao. 16 Real Madrid wins, 4 draws 0-0. Full match, 2D. I want to be eligible to lose a home match as a favorite. And draws only with a score of 0-0 in the match, a strong middle peasant, speaks of the engine's shortcomings. Now this is not football. The chances of a home win are too high and there is no chance of defeat.

is it 20 matches with the same lineup and same tactics and same subs?

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7 hours ago, nikkk said:

why so few? No bookmaker in the world will make the odds for the victory of a strong Athletic Bilbao 1 to 17. Both teams came up to the match in good conditions and morale. Caught up to 25 games .. 21 wins are the odds of 1 to 21. Should be no more than 1 to 5-6, I think in a home match and 1 to 4-5 on the road under the conditions that are in the game (both teams are in good condition and morality). And the coefficients they are closely related to statistics and mathematical expectation. Until fm brings the results at least to the mathematical expectation, there can be no question of any seriousness of the game. The problem is repeated several seasons + in the mobile version too. I can continue testing, but the conclusions are already there.
Again, in the away matches everything is more or less good with the results, but at home, fantastic is going on. When watching a full match, 2d

And I don't make substitutions during the match, the players are exhausted, they still can't lose

update: 40 matches  35 win / 5 draw (0-0) no chance for adequacy

I appreciate you appear to be talking about the replaying the same match over & over, but have you actually looked at the history of this particular fixture? Since winning three straight La Liga fixtures against Real Madrid in 2004-2005, Athletic have only won this fixture twice in the following 15 years - both of those at San Mamés. Funnily enough, that's 15 straight games where Real Madrid have not lost at home to Athletic and it was a draw in just two of those. Furthermore, of those three games Athletic won in that aforementioned run, only the last was at the Bernabeu and is their only win in Madrid so far this century.

As luck would have it, this fixture is actually happening tonight! So if you're that convinced that this is unrealistic, you have the opportunity to make yourself a tidy sum.

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So i've played fm21 quite a bit now and i'd like to share my impressions and asking some questions to other users or to devs too...

First of all i must say (sadly) that the game is not worth the price payed if you have already fm19 or fm20 (like me) cause there are no major changes in this version that justify the price payed. Now let's start with what i've noticed palying it:

1. Seems that now players fatigue plays a major role in their development and i find this change very good because you canno more use tactics with super intensity and super heavy training schedules and still develop your players, but: at the start of the first season due to covid-19 you have a very congested calendar and i've tried everything i could but i really don't understand how it works... the last season i've satarted to test i've decided to try to use a tactic with very low intensity and use very light training schedules and guess what happened?!?!? with a team predicted 5th in the league i'm at the last spot in the table  and i lose every game by 0-3 0-4 or 0-5 and no matter wich team i face (sttrong or not) my players' condition drops to red at arond 50-60th minute while AI is always green despite pressing ant tackling as mads.... the only positive thing i've noticed so far is that my players are slowly developing instead of dropping as usual...

2. let's talk now about ME:

a. pls SI fix this ****ing mechanic that allow AI score 2-3 goals per match with long balls over midfield and defense no matter how deep or high your defensive line is!!!!! it's extremely unrealistic!!!!

b. my tipical game: first half or until i score 1 or more goals: 20 shots to 0, 95% passes, 70-75% possession, than the magic happens (no matter how strong the team you're facing is and no matter what changes you make to your tactic to counter this behaviour) i've still 85-90% passes and 65-70% possession but i barely shot while AI attacks as there is no morning (still remaining green in condition) until they equalize or win, if i have a strong enough team i can be lucky and still win perhaps without conceading but still suffering heavy pressure and facing 10-15 shots...

c. pressing: if you use extremely high pressure youre defensive shapewill be completely destroyed and AI doesn't miss a pass whatsoever, but if you win and AI start pressing you than your players become total idiots and start missing passes (even 2 m ones) and shoting the ball randomly forward even if you asked them to play it short and to lose time and play with a slower tempo to make AI's pressing be a waste of energy (obviously AI is always green in condition whatsoever)

d. if AI wins and i decide to attack and press then the behavour should be the same of AI but guess what?!?!?!? i cannot make barely 1 shot on goal while AI scores 2-3 goals with counter attacks using the ****ing long passes over my midfield and defense and my defenders (i've tried to give them 20 in heading, anticipation, position, tackling, speed, acceleration and jumping reach) miss every ****ing header leaving open field to their strikers, but if i win and i put my defensive line low and try to make the same thing my strikers will be always anticipated by AI's headers....

i can go on further but you guys have already understood what are my problems.... 

So my question is: what's wrong with ME and AI's condition?!?!?!?

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2 часа назад, zyfon5 сказал:

is it 20 matches with the same lineup and same tactics and same subs?

the same tactics and without substitutions .. full match, 2D, full acceleration

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1 час назад, joshpmilton сказал:

I appreciate you appear to be talking about the replaying the same match over & over, but have you actually looked at the history of this particular fixture? Since winning three straight La Liga fixtures against Real Madrid in 2004-2005, Athletic have only won this fixture twice in the following 15 years - both of those at San Mamés. Funnily enough, that's 15 straight games where Real Madrid have not lost at home to Athletic and it was a draw in just two of those. Furthermore, of those three games Athletic won in that aforementioned run, only the last was at the Bernabeu and is their only win in Madrid so far this century.

As luck would have it, this fixture is actually happening tonight! So if you're that convinced that this is unrealistic, you have the opportunity to make yourself a tidy sum.

27 home  matches 3 wins by Bilbao)) 40 simulations = 0 wins by opp..

the meaning of dissatisfaction is no chance of losing the favorite in a home match .. It's not the first season, I've also tested past seasons. And not only Real))) but about the statistics of Real-Bilbao and the chance to earn thanks, they raised the mood strongly)))))

in the days of the cm, the game evoked real emotions that are similar to the emotions of a real coach, but now it’s another home match, you don’t have to watch it, it’s still a victory, no matter how you miss the first goals. No emotion for sadness.

Edited by nikkk
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3 минуты назад, luka_zg сказал:

I have lost at home to Huesca and was managing Barcelona. How do you explain that?

full match or highlights? the beginning of the season or is Barcelona already in good shape?

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I'm trying my best to play the game with a smile on my face whilst there are so many bugs going on in the game. But the one I keep seeing (or it may have been added to the game) is players which are either young players or fringe players coming to the end of their contracts and suddently wanting to be a regular starter. Anyone else noticed it's been added to the game or is it just me?

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14 минут назад, luka_zg сказал:

you know you are talking nonsense?

I will not even convince)))

I tested a lot .. The algorithms are different and this is normal .. But sometimes they differ very funny .. For example, this season, for a long time, there was a gap in the performance and statistics, for example, strikes, now they have corrected a little .. And some players with weak skills in the dangerous moments mode became just beasts. From the latest tests, this is Rodrigo from Real Madrid. Excellent game and statistics in dangerous moments mode, leading player. In full matches, he is mediocre and that's okay. Winnie Jr is terrible in highlights. In full match mode, he does what is expected of him - high-speed dribbling, activity. The problem remains with the implementation, but this is normal, as a coach, such an overpowering player suits me, and we will pump the implementation together. Therefore, I only play full matches. Moreover, there is a suspicion that the algorithm for 3D and 2D full matches is different. For example, in 3D, the  fullbacks (Сarvajal, Marcelo, Mendy)  of 90% could not make a cross bumping into the opponent, and in 2D they do it perfectly)))

With events outside the field at FM, everything is amazing. But not very good things are happening on the football field. If there is a normal football with the chances of losing, like winning matches, strong-willed victories and defeats, those emotions, then only then will FM reach its peak.

Edited by nikkk
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9 minutes ago, nikkk said:

different algorithm for calculating matches

No it's not. Different between full detail and view only leagues, but all full detail matches are calculated the same way regardless of highlight mode. ME is not the match visualiser.

Only real difference if you play a short highlight mode (compared to, say, comprehensive) is that you have less time to make changes.  ME calculates full match; visualiser shows match; if you make a change ME recalculates from that point and visualiser shows you the highlights for the recalculated match from that point until you interrupt it again.

Edited by rp1966
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31 минуту назад, rp1966 сказал:

No it's not. Different between full detail and view only leagues, but all full detail matches are calculated the same way regardless of highlight mode. ME is not the match visualiser.

Only real difference if you play a short highlight mode (compared to, say, comprehensive) is that you have less time to make changes.  ME calculates full match; visualiser shows match; if you make a change ME recalculates from that point and visualiser shows you the highlights for the recalculated match from that point until you interrupt it again.

I'm afraid to upset you, but I tested the same match in different modes without making any changes. In the dangerous moments mode, Real Madrid inflicts 30-40 shots  per match, in the full match mode, 10-15. This is in brief. There is also a difference in the style of play during dangerous moments and goals are scored different in execution))

and full match mode in 2D - most of all similar to real football. It remains to add home defeats for the favorite teams of the match.those to remove a certain helper of home matches. Yes, this will complicate the gameplay, but can you introduce a real football mode?

Edited by nikkk
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11 minutes ago, nikkk said:

I'm afraid to upset you, but I tested the same match in different modes without making any changes. In the dangerous moments mode, Real Madrid inflicts 30-40 hits per match, in the full match mode, 10-15. This is in brief. There is also a difference in the style of play during dangerous moments and goals are scored different in execution))

You are 100% wrong. Also replaying the same match will always have different results, no matter what level of highlights you use. This is due to randomness. 

Also what are 'hits per match'?

Edited by francis#17
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3 минуты назад, francis#17 сказал:

You are 100% wrong  unfortunately. 

Also what are 'hits per match'?

sorry, shots  towards the goal

i test while you play)))

Edited by nikkk
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26 minutes ago, nikkk said:

I'm afraid to upset you, but I tested the same match in different modes without making any changes. In the dangerous moments mode, Real Madrid inflicts 30-40 shots  per match, in the full match mode, 10-15. This is in brief. There is also a difference in the style of play during dangerous moments and goals are scored different in execution))

and full match mode in 2D - most of all similar to real football. It remains to add home defeats for the favorite teams of the match.those to remove a certain helper of home matches. Yes, this will complicate the gameplay, but can you introduce a real football mode?

It's not possible to replay the same match.  All actions in a match are governed by probabilities, so no two matches are ever the same. What you have done is play a number of matches with the same teams.

Think about what a pkm is and how you can replay it in any mode.

 

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57 minutes ago, nikkk said:

different algorithm for calculating matches

There's no difference between viewing highlights and a full match. It makes no difference to the calculations (it's being done at the start of the half anyway) so I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

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9 минут назад, rp1966 сказал:

It's not possible to replay the same match.  All actions in a match are governed by probabilities, so no two matches are ever the same. What you have done is play a number of matches with the same teams.

Think about what a pkm is and how you can replay it in any mode.

you make me assume the worst. About the fact that the outcome is simulated, and statistics - different algorithms for their modes. But I don’t believe it now. ))

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I was reading the SI's update on ME for FM21 and thought of this:

 

Quote

Defenders are also now more aware of the threat of play in central areas and will react more instinctively to those scenarios which will lead to even more interceptions as a result.

We know that now players have some sort of improved spatial awareness, but I think what it's lacking is "aerial awareness". A lot of through balls from CBs and GKs could be easily deflected by any center back who just position themselves correctly, jump and deflect the ball with a header. It's kind of ironic, because in a long ball, the defender have more chances of having success, due to being in front of the ball most of the time. Yet in FM21 (and FM20), in such long balls, the defender is often running behind the ball and looking towards the goal.

The other thing that I though it's that maybe gravity and ME's physics may play a part. I feel that balls are too light, so it's easy for any player to just smash it like they were Cristiano Ronaldo. Maybe a heavier ball will produce less of those nasty assistances, since the ball won't be able in most cases of crossing 3/4 of the field.

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8 минут назад, HUNT3R сказал:

There's no difference between viewing highlights and a full match. It makes no difference to the calculations (it's being done at the start of the half anyway) so I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

you are a moderator and your word is law. A little even made me happy. But I see slightly different statistics for the players and the match, depending on the mode. I am a fan of the game with 25+ years of experience. And I am scrupulous about the game. Your answer is to reassure the non-believers, okay)) I ask only to increase the chances of home defeats of the favorite teams and strong-willed results

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5 minutes ago, nikkk said:

But I see slightly different statistics for the players and the match, depending on the mode.

If you haven't played the same match 100 times on each mode, and 100 times when the mode is randomly changed throughout the match, (so in total 600 matches), averaged out all the data and accounted for wild randomness, you really don't have a basis to claim that statistics are different depending on the mode. If you have, I'd like to see and replicate the data :)

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5 минут назад, goranm сказал:

If you haven't played the same match 100 times on each mode, and 100 times when the mode is randomly changed throughout the match, (so in total 600 matches), averaged out all the data and accounted for wild randomness, you really don't have a basis to claim that statistics are different depending on the mode. If you have, I'd like to see and replicate the data :)

an interesting offer, but thank you, I'll give it up, 600 is too much, maybe another time)))))))

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One small tweak I would like to see, and one which doesn't seem that it would be all that hard to implement, would be to the promises system. I feel like if you promise someone you're going to play them in centre midfield but you end up playing them in front of the defence, for example, you should be able to say to them - at any point, not at some arbitrary point given to you by the game - 'look, I know I said I'd play you further forward but you're playing well in this position / but such-and-such a player is injured / but such-and-such a player is in great form', or whatever, and get a response. It would make it feel a wee bit less loaded and unreal if in general the promises could be a wee bit more dynamic, more subject to change, and more open to intervention from the player. 

As it is I just try to never make any promises to anyone ever, because it feels like a hostage to fortune - one day I'll need to play Joe Rothwell on the left and he'll lose his head and smash up the dressing room, or I'll miss out on promotion by a point and Max Power will come round my house and kidnap my family. Better to opt out of the system at all - which is fine, but it does mean there's a whole system that SI have spent time and money on which I and I bet loads of others just circumvent. 

Oh, and as an addendum to this, while I think the slightly more intense scrutiny you get about loan players is ... partly realistic, I guess, I think it's a wee bit too much. Nino Espirito Santo is on the blower to me every fortnight telling me he wants me to play Dion Sanderson as a wingback instead of a fullback. Get out of my grill Nino, haven't you got more important things to be doing?

Edited by IrishRovers
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This year, as with FM19 and FM20, I feel cheated. In the beta, the game was great and a lot of fun. After the full game came out, things changed that worked fine. The game of my team, despite the same tactics, looks different. In the beta, the game in the middle was very satisfying and now it is practically non-existent. Another year I bought the game and another year I regret my decision. I'm waiting for patch 21.2, hope to come back with the fun patch

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22 hours ago, luka_zg said:

I have my DoF to make offers for young players for the future. So, the level of players which he is persistent bringing in is just horrible. Why does he with his superb attributes have no idea which players are good and have potential? 1st screenshot is my Dof and 2nd is a player he wants to bring.

image.thumb.png.c348dd5283a69bced8058375560dd1bd.png

 

image.thumb.png.67d502eb4b0d465cdcda6edf8a416334.png

So, this player has like absolutely no chance of ever getting into my team, he is clearly not good enough for Serie A in any capacity. And all players my DoF tries to bring are of this level. It's quite funny I have to shut down every move he tries to make.

Same with coaches. Coaches with awesome skills will say that player might become better then player XXX while it is obvious that it not gonna happen. Completely useless...
Same as in your example.
In previous FMs it was the same. Completely broken.

So instead of delegation of this work to appropriate people you have to manage all of this things by your own. Terrible.

Edited by 4football
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2 часа назад, nikkk сказал:

I'm afraid to upset you, but I tested the same match in different modes without making any changes. In the dangerous moments mode, Real Madrid inflicts 30-40 shots  per match, in the full match mode, 10-15. This is in brief. There is also a difference in the style of play during dangerous moments and goals are scored different in execution))

and full match mode in 2D - most of all similar to real football. It remains to add home defeats for the favorite teams of the match.those to remove a certain helper of home matches. Yes, this will complicate the gameplay, but can you introduce a real football mode?

You're just wasted your time for nothing :thup:

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The game runs really poorly on high end systems, this bug has been present in previous iterations as well but has later been fixed. So I'm stunned that it's actually back, I've played less than 2 hours on this years edition just because I can't stand watching a choppy match engine. The bugs are numerous (and many are still remaining from last years game), mainly with the editor.

50£ to be a beta tester, don't be like EA. Please.

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2 minutes ago, linuxe said:

The game runs really poorly on high end systems, this bug has been present in previous iterations as well but has later been fixed. So I'm stunned that it's actually back, I've played less than 2 hours on this years edition just because I can't stand watching a choppy match engine. The bugs are numerous (and many are still remaining from last years game), mainly with the editor.

50£ to be a beta tester, don't be like EA. Please.

Of all the tired cliches relating to EA to chuck, buggy games probably wouldn't be very high up on the list to jump to.  

It's not that shocking that old bugs return.  While it's obviously rubbish for someone affected by it, these things do happen in development.  As usual, way to see it get fixed is to report again with as much detail as possible.  Hopefully it's something simple.

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