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[England EFL Championship] Data Issues


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Please post any data issues related to England's EFL Championship here.

As much of the data is subjective we’d ask that you respect everyone’s opinion and accept that the final decision is that of our club researchers and our heads of research.          

We also request you please adhere to the following three point plan when posting in the data topics:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                         

Please note that any non-data issues for England's EFL Championship should be posted in the appropriate thread within the League Specific Issues forum. This would include issues such as league scheduling, league table sorting rules and match rules.

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Maybe it's not a bug but I wanted to point something out with the Forest squad.

It was mentioned in the 'Championship Data issues' forum for the BETA (which I can't seem to reply to now) that there was an issue with Worrall being in the U-23s, whilst Hefele and Clough shouldn't be in the first team squad. Now the full game is out Worrall has been moved but the other two are still in the main team. That's not a major issue to me but in the previous forum @Dean Gripton said the following;

Quote

You're looking at a Forest data file that is old, because you are looking at the BETA. We've been working on the data in the last two weeks, and have now hard-coded Hefele and Clough to be in the u23s.

......

Does the new, full release still contain the old Forest data? Or is this still the new data? I ask as I loaded up FM20 with the original 20.1.0 database to see how players stats had changed during the BETA and noticed that most of the players had identical stats. That continues in the full game.

Samba, Worrall, Yates and Lolley remain the same despite having a good season. Michael Dawson remains the same despite being 36 and having barely played since the start of the year. Youth players Mighten, Richardson, Johnson, Swann and Dekel are the same despite moving up a squad level or spending time out on loan.

The only changes I can see are minor ones to Jake Taylor whilst Finn Back has had improvements in several areas. I'm not saying "player X should have this attribute or that attribute boosted" but, aside from the new signings, you might as well be playing FM20 if you start out with Forest on this database

Edited by matt_forest
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Thanks for your post, matt_forest.

The new release contains the updated data for all clubs, including Forest.

Hefele and Clough are in the Reserve Team if Hughton is the manager (specifically set up to not be preferred by him, in extra code). At the same time, they are both set in the database to specifically be reserve team players, so if that hasn't worked, then it's a bug, I'm afraid. We'll look into it, because everything I have inputted to the data would put them in the reserve team. All our soak tests realise than neither player will be a significant part of the squad during the season in the game, as you would expect under current circumstances.

That said, nobody is being kept out of the first team squad to cater for them, so maybe they are being bumped into that first-team lists on startup due to squad size, though (as mentioned) that appears to be an issue that I shall check up on. 

I would challenge your statement that those other players have not changed. Johnson, Mighten, Richardson, Yates, Worrall and yes, even Lolley (whose profile isn't altered much, I admit, but then, he's 'exposed' in racing parlance) are rated higher now in FM2021 than they were in FM2020.1.0. I have just checked the database to confirm that.

Dawson's CA was dropped from FM2020.1.0. The drop wasn't much, but his overall ability has been dropped.

On reflection, maybe we were too generous with our revised Forest ratings, perhaps? ;)

 

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25 minutes ago, Dean Gripton said:

Thanks for your post, matt_forest.

The new release contains the updated data for all clubs, including Forest.

Hefele and Clough are in the Reserve Team if Hughton is the manager (specifically set up to not be preferred by him, in extra code). At the same time, they are both set in the database to specifically be reserve team players, so if that hasn't worked, then it's a bug, I'm afraid. We'll look into it, because everything I have inputted to the data would put them in the reserve team. All our soak tests realise than neither player will be a significant part of the squad during the season in the game, as you would expect under current circumstances.

That said, nobody is being kept out of the first team squad to cater for them, so maybe they are being bumped into that first-team lists on startup due to squad size, though (as mentioned) that appears to be an issue that I shall check up on. 

I would challenge your statement that those other players have not changed. Johnson, Mighten, Richardson, Yates, Worrall and yes, even Lolley (whose profile isn't altered much, I admit, but then, he's 'exposed' in racing parlance) are rated higher now in FM2021 than they were in FM2020.1.0. I have just checked the database to confirm that.

Dawson's CA was dropped from FM2020.1.0. The drop wasn't much, but his overall ability has been dropped.

On reflection, maybe we were too generous with our revised Forest ratings, perhaps? ;)

 

Hi Dean, using the editor, Worrall's PA and CA are identical to FM20 and Brice Samba is another example with exactly the same CA and PA, year to year.  Grabban as well.  This is worrisome as clearly Worrall has moved a lot closer to his peak potential and when fit is one of Forest's best players and of Premier League interest.   That Figuereido has a better CA to Worrall destroys the credibility of the database.  There is not one Forest fan on earth who would think Figuereido is a better player.   Samba had one of Forest's best keeper seasons since Peter Shilton and whilst I don't think he's massively underrated at 126, some of his stats needed some tweaking to reflect some of the obvious qualities he has shown in the last season.  That there hasn't been a change to his handling, for example, is emblematic of a problem when it's been proven to be a clear strength.    I'd also question Lolley going up when he is playing worse this year and last to that what he did in 2018/19.

Smaller details like Figuereido being able to play at a basic level at RB, where he has played on occasion are missing.  Anyone who has watched Ioannou play would see that his best attribute as a LB is his delivery but no change to crossing?  

You have alleged I talk drivel in the past but I can point to many, many things in this database that are emblematic of a lack of forensic detail with regards Forest and I wish it would be better so Forest fans and others can enjoy more realistic saves. 

FWIW I can't play a game as Forest due to the lack of realism and end up playing as Plymouth Argyle most of the time.  This should concern as I am head of one of Forest's biggest overseas support groups and through Ifollow have watched every game Forest has played for the last four years.

My question is does every player get a proper going over for each release?  If not why not?  And if they do, how does that explain the Worrall, Grabban and Samba no CA and PA movement situation and the Worrall v Figuereido issue?  For starters.

Can add Samba Sow as an issue as well.  When right a good player but anyone who has watched him play over the last 18 months would know he very rarely gets through a full game and his stamina at 16 is completely wrong.  How is it that someone watching Forest week in week out would let him be in the database as a guy who can play a full 90 minutes regularly?  It's just not right!

Edited by ForestStoney
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1 hour ago, ForestStoney said:

Hi Dean, using the editor, Worrall's PA and CA are identical to FM20 and Brice Samba is another example with exactly the same CA and PA, year to year.  Grabban as well.  This is worrisome as clearly Worrall has moved a lot closer to his peak potential and when fit is one of Forest's best players and of Premier League interest.   That Figuereido has a better CA to Worrall destroys the credibility of the database.  There is not one Forest fan on earth who would think Figuereido is a better player.   Samba had one of Forest's best keeper seasons since Peter Shilton and whilst I don't think he's massively underrated at 126, some of his stats needed some tweaking to reflect some of the obvious qualities he has shown in the last season.  That there hasn't been a change to his handling, for example, is emblematic of a problem when it's been proven to be a clear strength.    I'd also question Lolley going up when he is playing worse this year and last to that what he did in 2018/19.

Smaller details like Figuereido being able to play at a basic level at RB, where he has played on occasion are missing.  Anyone who has watched Ioannou play would see that his best attribute as a LB is his delivery but no change to crossing?  

You have alleged I talk drivel in the past but I can point to many, many things in this database that are emblematic of a lack of forensic detail with regards Forest and I wish it would be better so Forest fans and others can enjoy more realistic saves. 

FWIW I can't play a game as Forest due to the lack of realism and end up playing as Plymouth Argyle most of the time.  This should concern as I am head of one of Forest's biggest overseas support groups and through Ifollow have watched every game Forest has played for the last four years.

My question is does every player get a proper going over for each release?  If not why not?  And if they do, how does that explain the Worrall, Grabban and Samba no CA and PA movement situation and the Worrall v Figuereido issue?  For starters.

Can add Samba Sow as an issue as well.  When right a good player but anyone who has watched him play over the last 18 months would know he very rarely gets through a full game and his stamina at 16 is completely wrong.  How is it that someone watching Forest week in week out would let him be in the database as a guy who can play a full 90 minutes regularly?  It's just not right!

Right.

Where do I start.

This post is symptomatic of a problem, not just with Forest fans, but, perhaps football fans in general. The expectation that, if something does not live up to a persons expectations, then, it makes it impossible to use. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, but, its just something that I've seen in recent years across all forums and Forest is no different

I go through every player in the Forest squad and DB every research window (something which has been made easier for us this time round with improvements on how we access the database). 

Worrall, the choice was made not to increase certain attributes this summer, as the only interest that has been shown in him, has been from Burnley. There has been no concrete interest from other Premier League clubs, despite the way he has played. I've run through several seasons on the Beta, and he does end up playing Premier League football, and even, some times, at Forest.

Figueiredo having a higher CA than Worrall doesn't really matter, hes older, so, the likelihood of him achieving that becomes less. It doesn't mean I don't rate Worrall, I do, but, I have to look at things figuratively from all areas, and across the division. The rating for him at RB hasn't been added, as, according to my records, he has played there twice, and both times, he ended up moving back into the centre of defence. He prefers to play on the right side of a defensive partnership, and that has been reflected.

Samba, I have to take into account other goalkeepers in the division. According to his CA, he is better than all but 2 or 3 goalkeepers who were in the division last season, and, those 3 goalkeepers were from teams who finished above us. That is something, that despite our fans loving Brice, you can agree with. Yes, he won goalkeeper of the season for the Championship, and, is probably our best goalkeeper for many years (I'd say Mark Crossley was probably our best since the European Cup days, but, thats just me). His handling, yes, it may be a strength, but, how many times has he let the simple shot or cross drop, and concede or make a mistake as a result? 

You remark about Ioannou. Up until a short time ago, he was in the Cypriot research teams control. I gave him a precursory going over before deciding on things. His crossing is definitely something that will get looked at, but, again, its something I'll look at along with everything else he has done for us, and objectively change it.

As for Samba Sow. He played (when fit), 1870 minutes for Forest last season, spread across 26 games, which works out at 71.9 (lets call it 72 minutes a game). Of those, he made it the full length of a game 9 times, to the 75th minute 3 times, and past the 80th minute twice. So, on 14 of those occasions, he played 1261 of the minutes in total (sometimes, being on the pitch for 100 minutes altogether). I would say, when fit, Samba is a guy that could definitely last 80-90 minutes, which, for someone who plays the role and style he does, is about right, however, take into account his injury proneness (which, I won't share here), that is something that will more than come into play throughout the course of the season.

Other than that, I'm floating around the forums most days at the moment (being self employed and not working at the moment has its bonuses), so, feel free to contact me on here if you need to talk about anything I've put.

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1 hour ago, robterrace said:

Right.

Where do I start.

This post is symptomatic of a problem, not just with Forest fans, but, perhaps football fans in general. The expectation that, if something does not live up to a persons expectations, then, it makes it impossible to use. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, but, its just something that I've seen in recent years across all forums and Forest is no different

I go through every player in the Forest squad and DB every research window (something which has been made easier for us this time round with improvements on how we access the database). 

Worrall, the choice was made not to increase certain attributes this summer, as the only interest that has been shown in him, has been from Burnley. There has been no concrete interest from other Premier League clubs, despite the way he has played. I've run through several seasons on the Beta, and he does end up playing Premier League football, and even, some times, at Forest.

Figueiredo having a higher CA than Worrall doesn't really matter, hes older, so, the likelihood of him achieving that becomes less. It doesn't mean I don't rate Worrall, I do, but, I have to look at things figuratively from all areas, and across the division. The rating for him at RB hasn't been added, as, according to my records, he has played there twice, and both times, he ended up moving back into the centre of defence. He prefers to play on the right side of a defensive partnership, and that has been reflected.

Samba, I have to take into account other goalkeepers in the division. According to his CA, he is better than all but 2 or 3 goalkeepers who were in the division last season, and, those 3 goalkeepers were from teams who finished above us. That is something, that despite our fans loving Brice, you can agree with. Yes, he won goalkeeper of the season for the Championship, and, is probably our best goalkeeper for many years (I'd say Mark Crossley was probably our best since the European Cup days, but, thats just me). His handling, yes, it may be a strength, but, how many times has he let the simple shot or cross drop, and concede or make a mistake as a result? 

You remark about Ioannou. Up until a short time ago, he was in the Cypriot research teams control. I gave him a precursory going over before deciding on things. His crossing is definitely something that will get looked at, but, again, its something I'll look at along with everything else he has done for us, and objectively change it.

As for Samba Sow. He played (when fit), 1870 minutes for Forest last season, spread across 26 games, which works out at 71.9 (lets call it 72 minutes a game). Of those, he made it the full length of a game 9 times, to the 75th minute 3 times, and past the 80th minute twice. So, on 14 of those occasions, he played 1261 of the minutes in total (sometimes, being on the pitch for 100 minutes altogether). I would say, when fit, Samba is a guy that could definitely last 80-90 minutes, which, for someone who plays the role and style he does, is about right, however, take into account his injury proneness (which, I won't share here), that is something that will more than come into play throughout the course of the season.

Other than that, I'm floating around the forums most days at the moment (being self employed and not working at the moment has its bonuses), so, feel free to contact me on here if you need to talk about anything I've put.

Hi Rob, 

thanks for your reply.

I eat and breathe Nottingham Forest.   I live in Australia and spend a few hours every day on Forest forums and keeping up to date with the team. I have supported the team since 1994 and been playing every Football Manager edition and the old champ manager since 1996.

I understand that the ratings of players can differ from person to person but to me that's not really the issue.  My issue is with realism as to how the players actually play and can be used and how the AI uses them.  

I think the Worrall and Figuereido situation whilst not a huge thing in the overall scheme of things of FM21  is a real dent in the realism of the game for hardcore FM21 players and hardcore Forest supporting FM fans.   

As far as I am aware CA is a big driver of FM team selection and in this edition Figuereido has a better CA than both Worrall and McKenna.  There is no Forest fan that would think he is better than those two, the transfer market suggests he is not better than those two and Forest managers selection policy would suggest he is not better than those two.  I find the CAs of Figuereido at 125, McKenna 123 and Worrall 122 is problematic to the CB hierarchy at the club and distorts the game.  Of course once the PAs kick in they will leave him for dead, but do you honestly believe he is a better player now?  And how is it explainable that both Fig and Joe stats have both not changed?  

As to Figuereido at RB, he can be used there in emergencies and it is an oversight in my opinion to not have him as an emergency option in the game. 

On Samba, he is without doubt the best keeper since Crossley and I think his handling is his best attribute and I think position for position he is our best player.  That's an opinion thing and no problem with your explanation.

Re Iannou: you may disagree but I think an opportunity has been lost to make him more realistic versus what is likely to be less reliable research quality from Cyprus than you can provide.  I know there is a very small sample size but still enough to have some of the new players playing more like they do for Forest, not necessarily rated differently.

The midfield hierarchy probably has issues as well and Fin Back is a goalscoring midfielder as other issues.

Anyways these are my frustrations, most stem from players having their ratings the same from one year to the next and what seems a reluctance to make changes to players which effect position hierarchies and the hierarchy of best players at the club which changes the way the game plays.  if you are like me and try to rectify some of these issues with the editor, not only is it time consuming but also has to be repeated with each data update (either official or third party).

But thanks again for the reply, nothing personal, just wanting what's best for the realism of the game and for Forest fans and for those wanting to play as us!

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For Stoke, Harry Souttar has been probably our best CB this season and has been in the championship team of the week a few times, but according to assistant reports is rated the 9th best player able to play CB at the club in FM. He's below Liam Lindsay, who's awful, and tommy smith who isnt a natural CB at all. His CA reportedly is League one level which really shouldn't be the case. His passing, vision, composure and technique all seem low to me as well. Adam Davies has also been a better keeper than Angus Gunn, and a miles better keeper than Jack Butland the last two years, but his CA is below both of them for some reason.  Besides that Jordan Thompson should probably have a slight stat boost as he's been comfortably championship level this season, but is rated as a league one level player. Wimmer and Ince should be downgraded as theyve both been very poor for multiple years. Tyrese Campbell should also have a CA higher than Lee Gregory and his pace, acceleration and anticipation should be higher. All just my opinion of course, but I've wacthed every stoke match the last few years and feel at the very least Souttar should get a bit of a boost to match his real life performances.

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Harry Souttar had been playing in League One for 18 months prior to this season, so being rated at about that level shouldn't be unexpected. The FLeetwood Town researcher will have seen a lot of him in that environment. He has good potential (though not quite the FM wonderkid he once was!) but if there are 8 players ahead of him in the pecking order at Stoke that's certainly an issue.

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1 hour ago, swansongs said:

Harry Souttar had been playing in League One for 18 months prior to this season, so being rated at about that level shouldn't be unexpected. The FLeetwood Town researcher will have seen a lot of him in that environment. He has good potential (though not quite the FM wonderkid he once was!) but if there are 8 players ahead of him in the pecking order at Stoke that's certainly an issue.

Definitely. When we get a player that has moved to a club from the lower leagues, or a foreign club, who immediately begins to show that they're a better player than they appear to be in game, we always get this issue. Sometimes its that a player adapts to his settings quicker, and improves, and other times, its just that in order to maintain some equality in the division/league that they've come from, their ratings are kept slightly lower. 

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17 hours ago, Dean Gripton said:

Thanks for your post, matt_forest.

The new release contains the updated data for all clubs, including Forest.

Hefele and Clough are in the Reserve Team if Hughton is the manager (specifically set up to not be preferred by him, in extra code). At the same time, they are both set in the database to specifically be reserve team players, so if that hasn't worked, then it's a bug, I'm afraid. We'll look into it, because everything I have inputted to the data would put them in the reserve team. All our soak tests realise than neither player will be a significant part of the squad during the season in the game, as you would expect under current circumstances.

That said, nobody is being kept out of the first team squad to cater for them, so maybe they are being bumped into that first-team lists on startup due to squad size, though (as mentioned) that appears to be an issue that I shall check up on. 

I would challenge your statement that those other players have not changed. Johnson, Mighten, Richardson, Yates, Worrall and yes, even Lolley (whose profile isn't altered much, I admit, but then, he's 'exposed' in racing parlance) are rated higher now in FM2021 than they were in FM2020.1.0. I have just checked the database to confirm that.

Dawson's CA was dropped from FM2020.1.0. The drop wasn't much, but his overall ability has been dropped.

On reflection, maybe we were too generous with our revised Forest ratings, perhaps? ;)

 

 

14 hours ago, robterrace said:

Right.

Where do I start.

This post is symptomatic of a problem, not just with Forest fans, but, perhaps football fans in general. The expectation that, if something does not live up to a persons expectations, then, it makes it impossible to use. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, but, its just something that I've seen in recent years across all forums and Forest is no different

I go through every player in the Forest squad and DB every research window (something which has been made easier for us this time round with improvements on how we access the database). 

Worrall, the choice was made not to increase certain attributes this summer, as the only interest that has been shown in him, has been from Burnley. There has been no concrete interest from other Premier League clubs, despite the way he has played. I've run through several seasons on the Beta, and he does end up playing Premier League football, and even, some times, at Forest.

Figueiredo having a higher CA than Worrall doesn't really matter, hes older, so, the likelihood of him achieving that becomes less. It doesn't mean I don't rate Worrall, I do, but, I have to look at things figuratively from all areas, and across the division. The rating for him at RB hasn't been added, as, according to my records, he has played there twice, and both times, he ended up moving back into the centre of defence. He prefers to play on the right side of a defensive partnership, and that has been reflected.

Samba, I have to take into account other goalkeepers in the division. According to his CA, he is better than all but 2 or 3 goalkeepers who were in the division last season, and, those 3 goalkeepers were from teams who finished above us. That is something, that despite our fans loving Brice, you can agree with. Yes, he won goalkeeper of the season for the Championship, and, is probably our best goalkeeper for many years (I'd say Mark Crossley was probably our best since the European Cup days, but, thats just me). His handling, yes, it may be a strength, but, how many times has he let the simple shot or cross drop, and concede or make a mistake as a result? 

You remark about Ioannou. Up until a short time ago, he was in the Cypriot research teams control. I gave him a precursory going over before deciding on things. His crossing is definitely something that will get looked at, but, again, its something I'll look at along with everything else he has done for us, and objectively change it.

As for Samba Sow. He played (when fit), 1870 minutes for Forest last season, spread across 26 games, which works out at 71.9 (lets call it 72 minutes a game). Of those, he made it the full length of a game 9 times, to the 75th minute 3 times, and past the 80th minute twice. So, on 14 of those occasions, he played 1261 of the minutes in total (sometimes, being on the pitch for 100 minutes altogether). I would say, when fit, Samba is a guy that could definitely last 80-90 minutes, which, for someone who plays the role and style he does, is about right, however, take into account his injury proneness (which, I won't share here), that is something that will more than come into play throughout the course of the season.

Other than that, I'm floating around the forums most days at the moment (being self employed and not working at the moment has its bonuses), so, feel free to contact me on here if you need to talk about anything I've put.

Thanks for the replies.

I guess it makes sense if you're changing the PA/ CA of a player over making wholesale changes to their starting attributes. I had thought it would be a bit of a comination of the regular and hidden stats that get tweaked but looking around different clubs in the game I'm  not seeing any players that have had any big changes. As for the hidden stats, I try to avoid looking at them as I think it can spoil the game so I didn't want to go in to the editor to find out how the new ones compare.

Anyway, thanks for the hard work :thup::thup: Time to get an unemployed/ lower league game set up with the Forest job as the ultimate target (when we'll be back in League One and all of these mentioned players will be long gone)

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19 minutes ago, matt_forest said:

 

Thanks for the replies.

I guess it makes sense if you're changing the PA/ CA of a player over making wholesale changes to their starting attributes. I had thought it would be a bit of a comination of the regular and hidden stats that get tweaked but looking around different clubs in the game I'm  not seeing any players that have had any big changes. As for the hidden stats, I try to avoid looking at them as I think it can spoil the game so I didn't want to go in to the editor to find out how the new ones compare.

Anyway, thanks for the hard work :thup::thup: Time to get an unemployed/ lower league game set up with the Forest job as the ultimate target (when we'll be back in League One and all of these mentioned players will be long gone)

Thanks for the comments, there is a whole lot more stuff that goes on when we look at players, and, I'll go a little bit into more detail here than I was going to at 3am (mainly because I was knackered).

Within each division of the English Research Group (so PL, Championship and so on), it is divided into sections, with recommendations on the highest sort of CA we can set a player. The research team (not just myself and Dean), of which there are a fair few, can contribute to how they think a player is in terms of CA and PA (at the higher ends of the league, its a little easier than Conference South or whatever). I have, at this point in time, a folder with a dozen spreadsheets, containing details of total minutes played per player, injuries, goals, assists, in other words, at least a season or twos worth of data to hand for a player (I can go further back on most players, and I have access to other stuff I've done on a lot of players in the division).

I try not to make wholesale changes to CA/PA of players at the top end of the spectrum for us, however, that doesn't mean that there are times I don't. I know off the top of my head, that Joe Lolley has had a couple of changes made, that will alter the way he approaches things in game, and that this, ultimately, won't have much effect on how the game treats him long term. 

Its the same with Joe Worrall. He had a boost in January in terms of some things, and the second half of the season, he will admit, his performance wasn't up to scratch. I held back the temptation to change too much on him, as I'm sure the disruption to the season meant that he couldn't improve how he wanted. 

There are players at Forest whom have had large changes over the past 12-18 months, but, I won't name them.

 

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I know Christmas time is congested in England, but 3 games in 4 days is maybe a little much? This year is the first time this has happened, and it's my second season in Championship after a short year in the Premier League.

 

2056688943_Utennavn.png.78a71fa4a74feb2f361aa5933e6a0618.png

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7 minutes ago, johaN' said:

I know Christmas time is congested in England, but 3 games in 4 days is maybe a little much? This year is the first time this has happened, and it's my second season in Championship after a short year in the Premier League.

 

2056688943_Utennavn.png.78a71fa4a74feb2f361aa5933e6a0618.png

Sorry, I can't answer that, johaN, as it isn't as data issue. 

Can you please post about it in the League Specific issues section, League Specific Issues - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com)? Go to the England thread and post in there. This is a bug with the fixture planning for the competition, not the data for the competition.

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Andreas Weimann must've been tired after racking up 90 games for Bristol City in 2019/2020. It's probably been mentioned before but I thought I'd point it out just in case. According to Wiki he played 45 League games and scored 9 goals.

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3 hours ago, EvenFlow82 said:

Andreas Weimann must've been tired after racking up 90 games for Bristol City in 2019/2020. It's probably been mentioned before but I thought I'd point it out just in case. According to Wiki he played 45 League games and scored 9 goals.

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Hey @EvenFlow82.

This was fixed a couple of weeks ago. It looks like it is corrected if you start a new game in the current FM21 build.

Was your save game created in the pre-release beta?

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13 minutes ago, Ed Hewison said:

Hey @EvenFlow82.

This was fixed a couple of weeks ago. It looks like it is corrected if you start a new game in the current FM21 build.

Was your save game created in the pre-release beta?

Yes, it was. Still rolling on a Beta save.

I'll let you get back to errors that still exist, sorry for taking up your time. :lol:

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Just now, EvenFlow82 said:

Yes, it was. Still rolling on a Beta save.

I'll let you get back to errors that still exist, sorry for taking up your time. :lol:

No problem at all. Just making sure that the fix is working.  :D 

Glad it is now corrected in new games. 

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The Bath researcher set the affiliation in error.

Note to any researchers reading: All affiliations must only be set in the file of the bigger club. DO NOT set an affiliation in the file of the smaller club.

We need to ensure this is better signposted in our new database system.

Apologies for not identifying that error before release.

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HUDDERSFIELD TOWN

Almost all first team squad members have very high appearance/goal/assist/clean sheet bonuses (£6k-10k), not representative of what is in place for the rest of the division, or what is reasonable. This looks like a hangover from their Premier League contracts because they also contain two clauses: "Avoiding relegation from the Premier League" and "Reaching the group stage of the Europa League". However the club was relegated in 2019.

This will absolutely not be the case any more as a number of players have signed new contracts since relegation, or had relegation wage drop clauses included (this was revealed by the ex-chairman on a number of occasions).

The clauses are also present for players who have signed for the club SINCE relegation, and in one case - Pipa (rb) - his contract start date is listed as May 2017 yet he only joined in summer 2020. 

This is really detrimental on finances as it almost doubles the weekly wage bill.

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Thanks for your post jammy8892.

There's a contract clauses table in the database with the old Premier League clauses that should have been deleted, but were not. I apologise for that oversight. They will be deleted for the next official data update.

 

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DERBY 

I was looking at Derby and I noticed that Wayne Rooney isn’t a natural ST! Considering he played there for the bulk of his career at United I would have thought we would have remained a natural ST (even if his attributes don’t reflect that). 
 

I haven’t played FM20/FM19 so if he’s like that in those games fair enough but I just thought it was odd. 

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44 minutes ago, Slippy_ said:

DERBY 

I was looking at Derby and I noticed that Wayne Rooney isn’t a natural ST! Considering he played there for the bulk of his career at United I would have thought we would have remained a natural ST (even if his attributes don’t reflect that). 
 

I haven’t played FM20/FM19 so if he’s like that in those games fair enough but I just thought it was odd. 

Thanks, @Slippy. Wayne Rooney is an interesting player to review for FM21 as, clearly, he isn’t the same player he was when he was younger. If he was, he wouldn’t be playing for Derby County in the Championship.

So far this season, Rooney has played in four different positions for the Rams - DM, MC, AMC, SC. In two games, he played three different positions in a single half of football. Of these four positions, he was least effective as a striker. In fact, a fairly significant part of Derby’s problems this season is that they don’t have anybody who looks a natural up front. When I was reviewing Rooney for FM21, I adjusted his rating as a striker down to accomplished to reflect this.

 

Edited by Stuniverse
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16 minutes ago, Stuniverse said:

So far this season, Rooney has played in four different positions for the Rams - DM, MC, AMC, SC. In two games, he played three different positions in a single half of football. Of these four positions, he was least effective as a striker. In fact, a fairly significant part of Derby’s problems this season is that they don’t have anybody who looks a natural up front. When I was reviewing Rooney for FM19, I adjusted his rating as a striker down to accomplished to reflect this.

 

Thank you for your response! That makes complete sense

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17 hours ago, Stuniverse said:

Thanks, @Slippy. Wayne Rooney is an interesting player to review for FM21 as, clearly, he isn’t the same player he was when he was younger. If he was, he wouldn’t be playing for Derby County in the Championship.

So far this season, Rooney has played in four different positions for the Rams - DM, MC, AMC, SC. In two games, he played three different positions in a single half of football. Of these four positions, he was least effective as a striker. In fact, a fairly significant part of Derby’s problems this season is that they don’t have anybody who looks a natural up front. When I was reviewing Rooney for FM21, I adjusted his rating as a striker down to accomplished to reflect this.

 

From what I've seen of Derby this season (admittedly, its a fair bit), Rooney seems to have played the deep lying role more than most. 

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1 hour ago, robterrace said:

From what I've seen of Derby this season (admittedly, its a fair bit), Rooney seems to have played the deep lying role more than most. 

Thanks, @robterrace. I would agree, that’s certainly where Rooney’s been most effective although, if he ever plays for us again, we could do with finding a way for him to influence things further up the pitch.

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I have found an issue with the history of the championship.

1913/14 season shows the runners up as Bradford City however this is incorrect as the runners up were Bradford Park Avenue.

Can this be updated?

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On 07/12/2020 at 11:24, lbowman6 said:

Matthew Jones is now longer a coach at Swansea and is Wales U18 manager.

https://www.faw.cymru/en/news/jones-appointed-intermediate-team-set/

He's not at Swansea in the database. I'm not sure what the situation is with the international u18s sides, if they're not in FM then his role won't be and he probably won't appear.

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1 hour ago, swansongs said:

He's not at Swansea in the database. I'm not sure what the situation is with the international u18s sides, if they're not in FM then his role won't be and he probably won't appear.

Hmmm very odd that my database is displaying him at Swansea.

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41 minutes ago, lbowman6 said:

Hmmm very odd that my database is displaying him at Swansea.

I sorted him back in June so it's not a new change from beta to release or something that might have missed a deadline. Booted up a quickstart Swans career and I don't see him haunting the corridors.

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I had an email in game telling me my player was the youngest ever goalscorer in the Championship at 16 years and 240 days.

 

A quick Google search tells me that Jude Bellingham (63 days) and Ryan Sessegnon (94 days) are actually ahead of him. (Source: https://www.statbunker.com/alltimestats/AllTimeYoungestScorer?comp_code=EC)

Eng Champ Youngest Goalscorer.png

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Incorrect height for Dominic Iorfa, Sheffield Wednesday,
since fm2020 he's been down as 6ft2 when a simple google search shows he's 6ft 4, on top of that the game has he and Julian Borner as the same height despite iorfa clearly being taller in real life.
804768a8db983b42208fb39d4c85b820.png
https://gyazo.com/804768a8db983b42208fb39d4c85b820
9af0ce1177b3472ce2fb5b5600b443dc.png
https://gyazo.com/9af0ce1177b3472ce2fb5b5600b443dc
aab6925e601e055f54e90bae32f5e39c.png
https://gyazo.com/aab6925e601e055f54e90bae32f5e39c iorfa left, borner right.

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Sorry if this isn't the right place for this but I've just started a save with Norwich and was confused as to why they are apparently set to fail FFP. Obviously it's the start of the season so things may sort themselves out but given they spent very little money in the PL, have taken £40m in sales from Godfrey and Lewis, plus the parachute payments, and overall being one of the most sustainable clubs in the country, I really don't think this makes any sense. Looking at the accounts stuff I can see where the loss over 2 years has come from, but there's literally nothing anywhere I can see suggesting Norwich will fail FFP. Everything is very positive about their finances. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Gran2 said:

Sorry if this isn't the right place for this but I've just started a save with Norwich and was confused as to why they are apparently set to fail FFP. Obviously it's the start of the season so things may sort themselves out but given they spent very little money in the PL, have taken £40m in sales from Godfrey and Lewis, plus the parachute payments, and overall being one of the most sustainable clubs in the country, I really don't think this makes any sense. Looking at the accounts stuff I can see where the loss over 2 years has come from, but there's literally nothing anywhere I can see suggesting Norwich will fail FFP. Everything is very positive about their finances. 

 

 

What is the club's financial projection for the first year in-game? They should be allowed to lose a total of around £61m (£13m+£35m+£13m) over the three year assessment period, having made a loss of £37m (£-2m+£39m) over the previous two years - so anything better than a £24m loss in 20/21 should see them pass you would think.

Selling £40m worth of players doesn't solve financial deficits on its own after coming down from the PL, even when you don't spend £9m on replacements. Swansea came down with a similar wage bill and were staring at annual income dropping from £120m to £60m that first year including the parachute payments. We were desperate to shift players for any money to get the bills down, given our owners had no appetite for risk or further investment. And we didn't have anything like that enormous single year loss in your promotion season on our record. £51m in wages in the Championship was not exactly sustainable (a lot of that would have been bonuses for promotion though).

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10 minutes ago, swansongs said:

What is the club's financial projection for the first year in-game? They should be allowed to lose a total of around £61m (£13m+£35m+£13m) over the three year assessment period, having made a loss of £37m (£-2m+£39m) over the previous two years - so anything better than a £24m loss in 20/21 should see them pass you would think.

Selling £40m worth of players doesn't solve financial deficits on its own after coming down from the PL, even when you don't spend £9m on replacements. Swansea came down with a similar wage bill and were staring at annual income dropping from £120m to £60m that first year including the parachute payments. We were desperate to shift players for any money to get the bills down, given our owners had no appetite for risk or further investment. And we didn't have anything like that enormous single year loss in your promotion season on our record. £51m in wages in the Championship was not exactly sustainable (a lot of that would have been bonuses for promotion though).

A lot of player sales, especially now, depend on how the payments are spread. 

Using an example I know, the record signing at Forest is £13.4m.

However, it is not recorded as a £13.4m hit. When the player was purchased, it was agreed to spread the payments over 5 years, with a payment of £2.68m every season for the next 4 years (first payment made when the player signed). I believe the Godfrey signing was definitely done this way, and, I would be sure that the Lewis signing would be the same. Thats how the majority of clubs did business in the summer.

 

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55 minutes ago, robterrace said:

A lot of player sales, especially now, depend on how the payments are spread. 

Using an example I know, the record signing at Forest is £13.4m.

However, it is not recorded as a £13.4m hit. When the player was purchased, it was agreed to spread the payments over 5 years, with a payment of £2.68m every season for the next 4 years (first payment made when the player signed). I believe the Godfrey signing was definitely done this way, and, I would be sure that the Lewis signing would be the same. Thats how the majority of clubs did business in the summer.

 

Player signings are like buying machinery - cash balance decreases but profit/loss doesn't directly as the value is still in the company as an asset. The company only loses money with depreciation/amortisation as the contract runs down regardless of the actual payment plan. So £9m in players incoming  would only be £3m "lost" that year if they're all of 3 year deals. When you sell a player the fee is set against the value they still have on the books when considering player trading profits. I'm not sure exactly how staggered or conditional future payments are supposed to factor into annual profit/loss. There's probably some wiggle room for accountants to earn their pay and keep profit/loss high/low as necessary for tax and FFP purposes.

When Swansea sold players for big money spread over a number of years they would sell the rights to future payments to banks for cash up front, further muddying things. We were carrying £60m in net liabilities when we were relegated having cashed in on all the incoming fees but still needing to pay for players we purchased that way. And then you have clubs delaying the confirmation of a deal so they fall into the next tax year rather than the previous (McBurnie for us) to watch out for.

I'm not an accountant and the financial stuff is probably the biggest headache of research. There's a lot of guesswork because the latest published accounts are always ancient history when we do our club data

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Just now, swansongs said:

I'm not an accountant and the financial stuff is probably the biggest headache of research. There's a lot of guesswork because the latest published accounts are always ancient history when we do our club data

Same here, its something I try to tell others when they are on about Forests finances.

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18 minutes ago, lbowman6 said:

Will Ajani Burchall (Bournemouth) be added to the game?

I know he’s only just turned 16 - so wondered if there’s a process SI follows to get him in game? Especially as he’s now played in the Championship.

https://www.royalgazette.com/soccer/sport/article/20201214/ajani-burchall-laps-up-history-making-professional-debut/

If they're not 16 by September 1st we don't include them. He's two months too young.

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14 hours ago, swansongs said:

If they're not 16 by September 1st we don't include them. He's two months too young.

Understood - is there not a process whereby SI can contact the club/individual and make exceptions once a player becomes active?

If my memory serves me correctly Odegaard was added to a game a few years back when he was 16?

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14 hours ago, lbowman6 said:

Will Ajani Burchall (Bournemouth) be added to the game?

I know he’s only just turned 16 - so wondered if there’s a process SI follows to get him in game? Especially as he’s now played in the Championship.

https://www.royalgazette.com/soccer/sport/article/20201214/ajani-burchall-laps-up-history-making-professional-debut/

He's a schoolboy. Therefore answer is no.

We do not include schoolboys in the game. If they play a game in 2020/21 and are still at school, we won't include them.

We only include first-year scholars, who are 16 year olds who have left school at the end of the 2019/20 academic year.

We're not in the business of contacting every schoolboy who plays a pro game to ask them. 

Odegaard was a one-off exception as he had played at full international level for a major European nation.

 

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5 hours ago, Dean Gripton said:

He's a schoolboy. Therefore answer is no.

We do not include schoolboys in the game. If they play a game in 2020/21 and are still at school, we won't include them.

We only include first-year scholars, who are 16 year olds who have left school at the end of the 2019/20 academic year.

We're not in the business of contacting every schoolboy who plays a pro game to ask them. 

Odegaard was a one-off exception as he had played at full international level for a major European nation.

 

Fair enough :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Question for the Millwall researcher...

Following the appointment of Harvey Bussell as head of recruitment (chief scout) today - does this mean Terry Bullivant (chief scout in game) has now left the club or has his role changed?

 

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