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[Germany Bundesliga] Data Issues


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Please post any data issues related to Germany's Bundesliga here.

As much of the data is subjective we’d ask that you respect everyone’s opinion and accept that the final decision is that of our club researchers and our heads of research.          

We also request you please adhere to the following three point plan when posting in the data topics:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                         

Please note that any non-data issues for Germany's Bundesliga should be posted in the appropriate thread within the League Specific Issues forum. This would include issues such as league scheduling, league table sorting rules and match rules.

 

Anything that is to do with a B team (II team) of a Bundesliga club, should be posted in this thread.
 

Known Issues: 

Youssoufa Moukoko - we are unable to include this player as he was not 16 years old by the cut-off date (01/09/2020) we have to adhere to be included in FM 2021. Therefore, please do not report this as an issue. 

 

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  • Ed Hewison changed the title to [Germany Bundesliga] Data Issues
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Despite being promised both in January and again during the Beta stage that this issue would be fixed in the full release, it's not.
Edmond Tapsoba. Shirt number 12. We have not, nor have we ever to the best of my knowledge, retired the number 12 shirt for the fans.

Since I'm pretty certain a fix to this issue will now not be released for some time, I won't be purchasing Football Manager this year.

It's not about this one issue, it's about the harsh response I received from the research team when I brought the issue up during the Beta stage,
and how clear it is to me that the Bundesliga, and my favourite club especially, are not given the proper attention.

image.png

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb BanOly:

Despite being promised both in January and again during the Beta stage that this issue would be fixed in the full release, it's not.
Edmond Tapsoba. Shirt number 12. We have not, nor have we ever to the best of my knowledge, retired the number 12 shirt for the fans.

Since I'm pretty certain a fix to this issue will now not be released for some time, I won't be purchasing Football Manager this year.

It's not about this one issue, it's about the harsh response I received from the research team when I brought the issue up during the Beta stage,
and how clear it is to me that the Bundesliga, and my favourite club especially, are not given the proper attention.

image.png

Hi BanOly,

i was not responsible for the Bundesliga, but have mentioned that the number 12 is locked or only told the 12 is wrong at the player ??

This is a big difference.

 

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I'm not sure if this is quite data related, given it's about the pictures of the players, but it definitely didn't belong in the League specific Issues forum so I'll put it in here.

The problem is that:

1. Nico Schlotterbeck (on loan to Union Berlin) has the picture of his brother Keven Schlotterbeck (was on loan to Union Berlin last season)

2. I'm guessing due to that, Keven Schlotterbeck has no picture at all.

File attached to show that it's wrong.

schlotterbeck.png

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3 hours ago, Fire_03 said:

Hi BanOly,

i was not responsible for the Bundesliga, but have mentioned that the number 12 is locked or only told the 12 is wrong at the player ??

This is a big difference.

 

I mentioned back in January that the number was reserved for fans. When I mentioned during the Beta stage that his number was still incorrect, surely the researchers job is to work out why it is still incorrect, and not mine?

By the time this is fixed in January, this issue will have been broken for a year. That's actually ridiculous, especially since it is an issue you cannot fix manually with the editor. Hence my refusal to buy the game this year.

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1 hour ago, Durodo said:

I'm not sure if this is quite data related, given it's about the pictures of the players, but it definitely didn't belong in the League specific Issues forum so I'll put it in here.

The problem is that:

1. Nico Schlotterbeck (on loan to Union Berlin) has the picture of his brother Keven Schlotterbeck (was on loan to Union Berlin last season)

2. I'm guessing due to that, Keven Schlotterbeck has no picture at all.

File attached to show that it's wrong.

schlotterbeck.png

Not really a data issue, but nevertheless let me log this so we can get this resolved.

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1 hour ago, BanOly said:

I mentioned back in January that the number was reserved for fans. When I mentioned during the Beta stage that his number was still incorrect, surely the researchers job is to work out why it is still incorrect, and not mine?

By the time this is fixed in January, this issue will have been broken for a year. That's actually ridiculous, especially since it is an issue you cannot fix manually with the editor. Hence my refusal to buy the game this year.

Sorry about this @BanOly, we have new Head Researchers for Germany this version and I suspect they were not aware of the issue from last January. Whilst they have the given the player the correct number in the database, it won't actually work as the number is retired in separate documentation (not in the database). We'll get this fixed for the winter update. 

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3 minutes ago, Simon Tipple said:

Sorry about this @BanOly, we have new Head Researchers for Germany this version and I suspect they were not aware of the issue from last January. Whilst they have the given the player the correct number in the database, it won't actually work as the number is retired in separate documentation (not in the database). We'll get this fixed for the winter update. 

I appreciate the sincere response. Is there any way whatsoever that I can change this manually for my version of the game? Even if it takes going into the game files and editing a line of text?

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3 hours ago, BanOly said:

I appreciate the sincere response. Is there any way whatsoever that I can change this manually for my version of the game? Even if it takes going into the game files and editing a line of text?

I don't think so, but we have a potential solution that we may be able to get live before the winter update. 

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There are still some small errors at schalke  :)

Christoph Bühler Is currently Assistant Manager --> sacked https://schalke04.de/personal/fc-schalke-04-stellt-chef-trainer-david-wagner-frei/

Nils Schmadkte is currently a scout --> Should be a Scout or chief scout for Wolfsburg https://www.vfl-wolfsburg.de/newsdetails/news-detail/detail/news/neuer-scouting-leiter/

Christoph Kresse is currently a Scout --> Should be a Scout for Wolfsburg https://de.linkedin.com/in/christoph-kresse- 

(Those were probably miss clicks)

Edit: Michael Reschke sacked (Next time please a few days earlier  :D )  https://schalke04.de/personal/michael-reschke-verlaesst-den-fc-schalke-04/

Edited by Super Saiyajin Karn3ol
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1 hour ago, Super Saiyajin Karn3ol said:

There are still some small errors at schalke  :)

Christoph Bühler Is currently Assistant Manager --> sacked https://schalke04.de/personal/fc-schalke-04-stellt-chef-trainer-david-wagner-frei/

Nils Schmadkte is currently a scout --> Should be a Scout or chief scout for Wolfsburg https://www.vfl-wolfsburg.de/newsdetails/news-detail/detail/news/neuer-scouting-leiter/

Christoph Kresse is currently a Scout --> Should be a Scout for Wolfsburg https://de.linkedin.com/in/christoph-kresse- 

(Those were probably miss clicks)

Edit: Michael Reschke sacked (Next time please a few days earlier  :D )  https://schalke04.de/personal/michael-reschke-verlaesst-den-fc-schalke-04/

Amended for possible future updates.

Reschke as well - but that did of course occur after the game release ;)

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darida renewed his contract till 2023 with hertha end of september. Dont know what was the data lock for germany

maximilian beier renewed till 2024 at hoffenheim

Edited by b13v3r
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I don't know how I missed that but in the game release clause of Ozan Kabak set as expiring in 31/7/2021. This is not right. The release clause will only be valid after 2020/21 season according to reports.  Transfermarktbulinewssportbild

 

 

I'd also like to thank you for considering all messages, suggessions and discussions during beta period. We clearly see the improvement in the full release. Great work in such a limited period. The number of players you've newly created is also worth mentioning. 

image.png.43c26e293d9b4a5286056920492601ae.png

 

 

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10 hours ago, b13v3r said:

darida renewed his contract till 2023 with hertha end of september. Dont know what was the data lock for germany

maximilian beier renewed till 2024 at hoffenheim

Checked and amended, thanks!

 

10 hours ago, Super Saiyajin Karn3ol said:

Sorry I was a bit overmotivated

No worries :D

 

10 hours ago, Super Saiyajin Karn3ol said:

Juan Cabrera exists twice at Schalke

Juan Ignacio Cabrera is the other version 

We will look into this (Lower leagues HR)

 

2 hours ago, elazulreal said:

I don't know how I missed that but in the game release clause of Ozan Kabak set as expiring in 31/7/2021. This is not right. The release clause will only be valid after 2020/21 season according to reports.  Transfermarktbulinewssportbild

 

 

I'd also like to thank you for considering all messages, suggessions and discussions during beta period. We clearly see the improvement in the full release. Great work in such a limited period. The number of players you've newly created is also worth mentioning. 

image.png.43c26e293d9b4a5286056920492601ae.png

 

Nice. Not unhappy with those numbers; over 2/3rds changed.  Thanks for checking this and at this speed too 

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5 minutes ago, jfkk said:

was 185 cm in beta and now looks 180 cm

Uhm, so what does it need to be then? 

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                    

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2 dakika önce, Reddiablo said:

Uhm, so what does it need to be then? 

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                    

dont you need to know this informations better than me..guendouzi is 185cm in everywhere

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The rules for Bundesliga in the game say that player under the age of 17 are not allowed to play in Bundesliga.

This rule was actually changed last year, so that player can play in the league once they turn 16. This rule is active since this season and Youssoufa Moukoko already played 1 day after his birthday.

Here is an official proof of that: https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/new-minimum-age-for-players-of-the-future-youssoufa-moukoko-10723

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4 hours ago, Retrogott said:

The rules for Bundesliga in the game say that player under the age of 17 are not allowed to play in Bundesliga.

This rule was actually changed last year, so that player can play in the league once they turn 16. This rule is active since this season and Youssoufa Moukoko already played 1 day after his birthday.

Here is an official proof of that: https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/new-minimum-age-for-players-of-the-future-youssoufa-moukoko-10723

This has been covered across the beta thread. It's child laws that prevent SI from having Moukoko in the game, not Bundesliga (similar to Odegaard a few years back). You can just use one of the editor files around to add him in, SI won't add him in till the next version.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb Sherkey:

This has been covered across the beta thread. It's child laws that prevent SI from having Moukoko in the game, not Bundesliga (similar to Odegaard a few years back). You can just use one of the editor files around to add him in, SI won't add him in till the next version.

I don't think you read my post properly. I'm talking about the Bundesliga rules that are wrong and not about adding Moukoko to the game.

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1 minute ago, Retrogott said:

I don't think you read my post properly. I'm talking about the Bundesliga rules that are wrong and not about adding Moukoko to the game.

Ah, my bad about that.

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27 minutes ago, marioo said:
 

Si please fix that 16-year-olds players can play in the Bundesliga from the 2020/2021 season

The answer is two posts above yours.

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5 hours ago, j_t_87 said:

Hello,

 

I noticed Haaland doesnt have a release clause anymore? I heard he has a 75mil release clause reported in the medias

We have taken it out since it is not official, just some media reports are not enough.

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Hello,

I noticed a massive Speed downgrade for Mats Hummels (Borussia Dortmund). While his acceleration is certainly very poor, his top speed is actually still decent (last season he ranked 143rd for top speed in Bundesliga - on the same level als Luca Waldschmidt or Tin Jedvaj. 

I would suggest to decrease acceleration to 7 or 8 and increase speed to 10 or 11.

Also Reinhard Rauball is not the head of the board at Dortmund, that would rather be Hans-Joachim Watzke, with Thomas Treß as the head of operations. It looks a bit weird in game when the president of the club, who has very little to do with the football business, is you boss...

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I think the bundesliga rating are too low. 

RB Leipzig are an established champs league team. Dayot Upamecano is rated worse than Davinson Sanchez of Tottenham. Thats impossible. Sabitzer is rated 148 CA, even though half of Europe wants him.

Jude Bellingham is rated at 130CA even though he is a regular for Dortmund, the second best team in the league.

Reyna is also underrated.

<drivel deleted>

Edited by Dean Gripton
edited out the drivel
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18 saat önce, Reddiablo said:

Uhm, so what does it need to be then? 

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                    

https://www.herthabsc.de/en/teams/first-team/page/29--29--.html can you check here for guendouzi's real weight and height..you asked me for proof

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17 hours ago, b13v3r said:

Hannes Wolf // in real life Hannes Wolf has a must buy option after 15 games

We do have this set in the database already for release, but I'm not sure how much this is supported by the game

 

3 hours ago, DCrules said:

Hello,

I noticed a massive Speed downgrade for Mats Hummels (Borussia Dortmund). While his acceleration is certainly very poor, his top speed is actually still decent (last season he ranked 143rd for top speed in Bundesliga - on the same level als Luca Waldschmidt or Tin Jedvaj. 

I would suggest to decrease acceleration to 7 or 8 and increase speed to 10 or 11.

Also Reinhard Rauball is not the head of the board at Dortmund, that would rather be Hans-Joachim Watzke, with Thomas Treß as the head of operations. It looks a bit weird in game when the president of the club, who has very little to do with the football business, is you boss...

We will look into this (Dortmund researcher and myself)

 

1 hour ago, jfkk said:

https://www.herthabsc.de/en/teams/first-team/page/29--29--.html can you check here for guendouzi's real weight and height..you asked me for proof

Thank you, that's what we need - saves time to having to check and recheck etc.  - Guendouzi just recently joined from the English research team, we don't generally go over profile extremely thoroughly as we can assume most things should be correct.  Only if we really spot crazy things, and 1.80m is not too crazy. But we will adjust the height and weight now.

 

2 hours ago, andyt365 said:

I think the bundesliga rating are too low. 

RB Leipzig are an established champs league team. Dayot Upamecano is rated worse than Davinson Sanchez of Tottenham. Thats impossible. Sabitzer is rated 148 CA, even though half of Europe wants him.

Jude Bellingham is rated at 130CA even though he is a regular for Dortmund, the second best team in the league.

Reyna is also underrated.

<drivel deleted>

I really can't do much with this subjective stuff. Bellingham gets his playing time, but he's not necessarily a regular and he has just recently joined from a foreign league. We haven't see any reason to give him an overhaul within this phase of the research. Reyna is already a good player, especially for his age and this is reflected in his current attributes and his potential is sky high. I'm sorry but "half of europe" and "underrated" is not anything we can work with. If you think eg. Reyna is underrated in particular areas, please provide proof - such as stats or video etc. and then we will obviously look into it - outside of the regular perpetual reviewing we do.

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11 horas atrás, andyt365 disse:

I think the bundesliga rating are too low. 

RB Leipzig are an established champs league team. Dayot Upamecano is rated worse than Davinson Sanchez of Tottenham. Thats impossible. Sabitzer is rated 148 CA, even though half of Europe wants him.

Jude Bellingham is rated at 130CA even though he is a regular for Dortmund, the second best team in the league.

Reyna is also underrated.

<drivel deleted>

I think Leipzig are especially underrated given that they don't have a single player with a CA above 150 now that Werner has left. Konrad Laimer, who established himself as one of the team's best assets last season couldn't even get into the 140's. I know saying this alone won't help much if anything, thus only brought it up out of shere surprise since I expected Leipzig to be given a considerable boost after last season's performances.

Edited by CEVR1996
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Confused about Schalke's financial status in the game. They seem to have a starting balance of €91.35 million and are listed as one of the top 10 "Rich" clubs in Germany. Surprised about this considering their well known financial turmoil at the moment. Is there something I'm missing?

Unless this is a problem related to me playing the Demo instead of the full game, in which case ignore me :)

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19 hours ago, CEVR1996 said:

I think Leipzig are especially underrated given that they don't have a single player with a CA above 150 now that Werner has left. Konrad Laimer, who established himself as one of the team's best assets last season couldn't even get into the 140's. I know saying this alone won't help much if anything, thus only brought it up out of shere surprise since I expected Leipzig to be given a considerable boost after last season's performances.

Thanks...   we also included analysis across the top leagues and I think that the Bundesliga slots in fine - although perhaps with the results in Europe by eg. Gladbach and Hoffenheim too there might be a little bit of room for improvement. However overall, looking at all 18 sides it is an accurate representation.

However RB Leipzig looks like it's the only one that's a little undervalued looking at the CA - we will look to tweak this alongside the overall general research we will keep on doing.  (Schalke might be a little overvalued, but then again I don't believe all of their players are relegation fodder, just like with Werder Bremen)

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On 27/11/2020 at 06:20, Cal585 said:

Confused about Schalke's financial status in the game. They seem to have a starting balance of €91.35 million and are listed as one of the top 10 "Rich" clubs in Germany. Surprised about this considering their well known financial turmoil at the moment. Is there something I'm missing?

Unless this is a problem related to me playing the Demo instead of the full game, in which case ignore me :)

Schalke has 92.000.000 balance and 92.000.000 net debt. Thats +-0 

Furthermore they have 200.000.000 bank loans.

Its fine.

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Any reason why Daley Sinkgraven was completely and utterly decimated in terms of CA, PA, attributes, just about everything really compared to last season, despite competing with Wendell for a position that isn't even his most natural. He also has an Injury Prone rating of 18 despite not even being injured as much as others in the squad last season i.e. Lars Bender?

I don't believe he's done anything to merit any of the downgrades, if anything he was probably deserving of a slight upgrade having featured so regularly at left-back over a fit Wendell, who as I pointed out during the Beta stage, had one of the best tackles/game ratios in the Bundesliga until the first Covid-19 break. Granted it's the Bosz bias to a degree but still wondering the specific reason, if any, for such a drastic drop in ability.

Edit: Also can't forget that cross to assist Lars Bender in scoring the winner vs Dortmund

Edited by BanOly
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24 minutes ago, BanOly said:

Any reason why Daley Sinkgraven was completely and utterly decimated in terms of CA, PA, attributes, just about everything really compared to last season, despite competing with Wendell for a position that isn't even his most natural. He also has an Injury Prone rating of 18 despite not even being injured as much as others in the squad last season i.e. Lars Bender?

I don't believe he's done anything to merit any of the downgrades, if anything he was probably deserving of a slight upgrade having featured so regularly at left-back over a fit Wendell, who as I pointed out during the Beta stage, had one of the best tackles/game ratios in the Bundesliga until the first Covid-19 break. Granted it's the Bosz bias to a degree but still wondering the specific reason, if any, for such a drastic drop in ability.

Edit: Also can't forget that cross to assist Lars Bender in scoring the winner vs Dortmund

Sinkgraven has had a CA decrease of 3 CA points. We felt his defensive shortcomings weren't accurately portrayed before so he has had some adjustments and he is now portrayed accurately.

We will keep on reviewing his progress once he is not injured for a longer period of time for once.

A 3 CA point decrease is hardly an utter decimation, so that is a bit harsh.

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@Reddiablo the CA is the least of it. You justified lowering a fair few stats, often by 2-3 points, by upping attributes like Flair and Off the Ball. His defensive shortcomings were accurately portrayed - his Marking and Tackling were 11, and he is actually decent at both - he wouldn't be playing out of position as a left-back if he wasn't as good as he is.

Again, no idea what you mean by him being injured for a long period of time. He hasn't been injured at all this season. Before this season, he missed BL matchday 30 and the cup game that followed - besides that exception, the last time he was out of action for 2 or more games consecutively was November 2019. I also told you this during the beta stage so I definitely feel as if giving him an Injury Prone of 18 is extremely harsh.

At time of writing, Sinkgraven has featured in every single Bundesliga match as a left-back bar one, for one of the 2 remaining unbeaten teams and most solid defences in the Bundesliga this season. Yet your changes make it very difficult for us to even play him there. I'd hardly call this 'portrayed accurately.'

Spoiler

Matches missed due to injury (all competitions) during Season 2019-20 (and number of long-term injuries):
Joel Pohjanpalo* - 14 (2)
Lars Bender - 17 (2)
Daley Sinkgraven - 12 (1)
Charles Aranguiz - 11 (3)
Mitchell Weiser - 10 (2)

*first half of season

 

Edited by BanOly
Added guide to Injury Susceptibility
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26 minutes ago, BanOly said:

@Reddiablo the CA is the least of it. You justified lowering a fair few stats, often by 2-3 points, by upping attributes like Flair and Off the Ball. His defensive shortcomings were accurately portrayed - his Marking and Tackling were 11, and he is actually decent at both - he wouldn't be playing out of position as a left-back if he wasn't as good as he is.

Again, no idea what you mean by him being injured for a long period of time. He hasn't been injured at all this season. Before this season, he missed BL matchday 30 and the cup game that followed - besides that exception, the last time he was out of action for 2 or more games consecutively was November 2019. I also told you this during the beta stage so I definitely feel as if giving him an Injury Prone of 18 is extremely harsh.

At time of writing, Sinkgraven has featured in every single Bundesliga match as a left-back bar one, for one of the 2 remaining unbeaten teams and most solid defences in the Bundesliga this season. Yet your changes make it very difficult for us to even play him there. I'd hardly call this 'portrayed accurately.'

https://www.transfermarkt.com/daley-sinkgraven/verletzungen/spieler/215099
Have a good hard look at this.

There were a few games this season where I was sitting down for Bayer and also for SInkgraven and he was replaced due to poor form and/or injuries (that didn't wind up to be too bad) - but he is hardly playing consistently over several games over more stretches of time.

Sinkgraven is not a left back, he also doesn't play as a left back (but as a wing back)
Your input is flawed. You can play him in the positions where he plays for Bayer in real life, although I would personally suggest playing Wendell. But they are different types of players with different strengths and weaknesses. Flair and OTB obviously accomodate his attacking minded prowess further in comparison to his flakey defense.
Thought you weren't going to buy the game now?

Anyway, we are not going to agree and there is also no point in discussing this further. Discussion ended.

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Guys, let's wind it in a bit. I will be removing the above messages because it's just descending into insults. BanOly has raised things that he feels are issues, if the research team don't feel the need to act on them then that is their right as researchers. Either way we don't need to get into personal insults. 

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Appreciated.

Another legitimate issue I raised in the removed messages was the fact that Emrehan Gedikli (as well as over a dozen other Bayer Leverkusen players) still has random attributes.

Just repeating it here to ensure that it gets fixed for the January patch, now that he is featuring for the first team.

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