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[Italy] Data Issues


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Please post any data issues related to Italy here.

As much of the data is subjective we’d ask that you respect everyone’s opinion and accept that the final decision is that of our club researchers and our heads of research.          

We also request you please adhere to the following three point plan when posting in the data topics:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                         

Please note that any non-data issues for Italy should be posted in the appropriate thread within the League Specific Issues forum. This would include issues such as league scheduling, league table sorting rules and match rules.

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Is there any way to change Pirlo’s first preferred formation to 3-4-1-2 to mirror Juventus’ formation in real life? 

In the official version, AI run Juventus has 5-2-3 WB W formation with Cristiano Ronaldo on AML and Dybala on top. (with Morata on the bench). This results in Cristiano Ronaldo barely scoring, and Juventus immensely struggling in the league. Cristiano Ronaldo is no longer on AML since a few years ago, and Dybala is not a striker for Juventus. If you watched any of Juventus matches this season, you would notice right away that this formation and the resultant players’ positions are not even close to any of the formations used by the team. 

In the beta version, AI run Juventus had 5-2-2-1 WB formation with Cristiano Ronaldo on top. This resulted in Cristiano Ronaldo scoring around 30 goals per season competing for the top scorer just like in real life, and Juventus was one of the most formidable opponents you would face in Serie A. Although not perfect, I thought this, at least, represented Juventus well in terms of goals and standing in the league.

FM editor does not let me choose 3-4-1-2 as Pirlo’s preferred formation in real life.

Every time I purchased FM (since 2011), the first thing I did was to simulate the leagues where Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi played and see how closely the results resembled the real life. I think this is the first year the game is seriously lacking in this respect, and that takes away much of my enjoyment of the game.   

Edited by jjkhe
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please reconsider Christian Eriksen's work rate of 7. He is actually  very hard working player and has been told time and time again to work less so he can use his skills attackingly.

furthermore, please reconsider his penalty attribute of 13. He is the regular penalty taker for Denmark and has scored something like 15 from 16 kicks.

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I found hard to believe that most of AC Milan players are almost at the same level as last year while they are unbeated since 20 games (record in Europe...) and first in Serie A.

  1. Ismael Benacer is in the eye of most top European clubs, worth 33k based on transfermarkt and still worth what AC Milan paid for him a year ago in the game
  2. Donnarumma, one of the best keeper in Europe, is still and always a young futur start while he worth 60k again on transfermark, played already more than 200 games and is the Italian squad keeper
  3. Hernandez is considered as one of the best left defender in the world, is evaluated 45k afain on tm and in the game is just regular
  4. Kessié is often nominated as best player of the game but looks like a regular player in the game (35k on tm)
  5. Rebic did an amazing season but again, regular in game (32k in tm)
  6. Calhanoglu has exploded but do not reflect this in game (30k in tm)
  7. Saelemaekers value has doubled based on tm, 15k

Really disapointing and the first thing I will have to do after purchasing a brand new game is to find an more accurate database... What a shame!

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1 hour ago, Profiler said:

I found hard to believe that most of AC Milan players are almost at the same level as last year while they are unbeated since 20 games (record in Europe...) and first in Serie A.

  1. Ismael Benacer is in the eye of most top European clubs, worth 33k based on transfermarkt and still worth what AC Milan paid for him a year ago in the game
  2. Donnarumma, one of the best keeper in Europe, is still and always a young futur start while he worth 60k again on transfermark, played already more than 200 games and is the Italian squad keeper
  3. Hernandez is considered as one of the best left defender in the world, is evaluated 45k afain on tm and in the game is just regular
  4. Kessié is often nominated as best player of the game but looks like a regular player in the game (35k on tm)
  5. Rebic did an amazing season but again, regular in game (32k in tm)
  6. Calhanoglu has exploded but do not reflect this in game (30k in tm)
  7. Saelemaekers value has doubled based on tm, 15k

Really disapointing and the first thing I will have to do after purchasing a brand new game is to find an more accurate database... What a shame!

Hi, I'm not a member of the Italian research team but I will say that valuations on Transfermarkt mean nothing in FM or in real life business so you shouldn't use them as reference. 

Also, in the UK (where SI are based), the abbreviation of k means thousand. Thus, Bennacer being worth 32 k on Transfermarkt would translate to 32,000! I'm presuming that you mean million instead? 

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it isn't very important but in legend players in Italy there are some missing: 

Valentino Mazzola and Giuseppe Meazza (that are both with Baggio the all-time best attacking player of Italy and among the best in the World)

Sandro Mazzola

Silvio Piola

 

and there are not set the value for legends (all are set with value of 1)

Edited by FlorianAlbert9
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15 hours ago, Profiler said:

I found hard to believe that most of AC Milan players are almost at the same level as last year while they are unbeated since 20 games (record in Europe...) and first in Serie A.

  1. Ismael Benacer is in the eye of most top European clubs, worth 33k based on transfermarkt and still worth what AC Milan paid for him a year ago in the game
  2. Donnarumma, one of the best keeper in Europe, is still and always a young futur start while he worth 60k again on transfermark, played already more than 200 games and is the Italian squad keeper
  3. Hernandez is considered as one of the best left defender in the world, is evaluated 45k afain on tm and in the game is just regular
  4. Kessié is often nominated as best player of the game but looks like a regular player in the game (35k on tm)
  5. Rebic did an amazing season but again, regular in game (32k in tm)
  6. Calhanoglu has exploded but do not reflect this in game (30k in tm)
  7. Saelemaekers value has doubled based on tm, 15k

Really disapointing and the first thing I will have to do after purchasing a brand new game is to find an more accurate database... What a shame!

On 23/11/2020 at 15:08, Simon Tipple said:

Please post any data issues related to Italy here.

As much of the data is subjective we’d ask that you respect everyone’s opinion and accept that the final decision is that of our club researchers and our heads of research.          

We also request you please adhere to the following three point plan when posting in the data topics:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                         

Please note that any non-data issues for Italy should be posted in the appropriate thread within the League Specific Issues forum. This would include issues such as league scheduling, league table sorting rules and match rules.

 

Granted, your disappointed, but unfortunately your post doesn't give the researchers anything. Saying "player X is underrated" or "player Y is overrated" won't help unless you can point to WHY they're under-/overrated, or HOW they are, accompanied by some proof or reasoning to why you think they should be rated the way you think.

See the OP for clarification.

Edited by Maaka
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On 24/11/2020 at 08:07, jjkhe said:

Is there any way to change Pirlo’s first preferred formation to 3-4-1-2 or 4-4-2 to mirror Juventus’ formation in real life? 

In the official version, AI run Juventus has 5-2-3 WB W formation with Cristiano Ronaldo on AML and Dybala on top. (with Morata on the bench). This results in Cristiano Ronaldo barely scoring, and Juventus immensely struggling in the league. Cristiano Ronaldo is no longer on AML since a few years ago, and Dybala is not a striker for Juventus. If you watched any of Juventus matches this season, you would notice right away that this formation and the resultant players’ positions are not even close to any of the formations used by the team. 

In the beta version, AI run Juventus had 5-2-2-1 WB formation with Cristiano Ronaldo on top. This resulted in Cristiano Ronaldo scoring around 30 goals per season competing for the top scorer just like in real life, and Juventus was one of the most formidable opponents you would face in Serie A. Although not perfect, I thought this, at least, represented Juventus well in terms of goals and standing in the league.

FM editor does not let me choose 3-4-1-2 as Pirlo’s preferred formation in real life. Instead, I changed it to 4-4-2 in pre-game edit and got very realistic results statistically. 

Every time I purchased FM (since 2011), the first thing I did was to simulate the leagues where Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi played and see how closely the results resembled the real life. I think this is the first year the game is seriously lacking in this respect, and that takes away much of my enjoyment of the game.   

You can also change the staff preferred formations in the pre-game editor. For instance in my beta save they won the CL using that 3-4-2-1 or 5-2-2-1 WB as it's called by the game.

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The game is broken and unplayable. Even the most basic things are not right in the database.

Bayern will pay Douglas Costa's full salary while he is on loan, not Juventus - https://twitter.com/kerry_hau/status/1313077434821025793  

Juventus pays Morata's salary, not Atletico. What is the monthly fee of €1,1m that Juventus pays to Atletico? Juventus paid a €10m loan fee for Morata.  

Quote

The right for Juventus to definitely acquire the player’s registrations rights by the end of the 2020/2021 season for a consideration of € 45 million to be paid in three financial year

https://www.juventus.com/en/news/articles/welcome-home-alvaro

Atletico does not accept instalments in the game.

It's the same with Chiesa. €325k monthly fee, why?? Juventus will pay a €10m (2020/21 season €3m + 2021/22 season €7m) loan fee for Chiesa + €40m obligation to buy payable in three years

https://www.juventus.com/en/news/articles/federico-chiesa-is-bianconero

Edited by saosinfan4
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On 26/11/2020 at 04:56, andu1 said:

You can also change the staff preferred formations in the pre-game editor. For instance in my beta save they won the CL using that 3-4-2-1 or 5-2-2-1 WB as it's called by the game.

The pre-game editor does not let me change the preferred formation to 3-4-1-2. I hope the database update will reflect formations that Juventus use in real life while ensuring that they result in realistic stats.

Edited by jjkhe
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On 26/11/2020 at 12:29, saosinfan4 said:

The game is broken and unplayable. Even the most basic things are not right in the database.

Bayern will pay Douglas Costa's full salary while he is on loan, not Juventus - https://twitter.com/kerry_hau/status/1313077434821025793  

Juventus pays Morata's salary, not Atletico. What is the monthly fee of €1,1m that Juventus pays to Atletico? Juventus paid a €10m loan fee for Morata.  

https://www.juventus.com/en/news/articles/welcome-home-alvaro

Atletico does not accept instalments in the game.

It's the same with Chiesa. €325k monthly fee, why?? Juventus will pay a €10m (2020/21 season €3m + 2021/22 season €7m) loan fee for Chiesa + €40m obligation to buy payable in three years

https://www.juventus.com/en/news/articles/federico-chiesa-is-bianconero

The game is not "broken and unplayable". At the top of the thread it states how to post issues in this forum, if you can't post constructively without throwing around statements that are clearly not true then you won't be posting in here at all. 

The rest of the post does contain some good information and sources and I'm sure the Italian researcher will be able to answer why things have been set the way they have or correct the issues should they be wrong. 

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On 26/11/2020 at 15:55, jjkhe said:

The pre-game editor does not let me change the preferred formation to 3-4-1-2. I hope the database update will reflect formations that Juventus use in real life while ensuring that they result in realistic stats.

Some of this may be an issue with how the formations are named in game. 3-4-1-2 in-game uses wide midfielders rather than wing-backs, the wing-back equivalent would be 5-2-1-2 WB in-game. 

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On 28/11/2020 at 13:04, metal_guitarist said:

Some of this may be an issue with how the formations are named in game. 3-4-1-2 in-game uses wide midfielders rather than wing-backs, the wing-back equivalent would be 5-2-1-2 WB in-game. 

So, I need to set 5-2-1-2 WB as Pirlo’s preferred formation to emulate Juventus’ 3-4-1-2 formation? 

Do you know why pre-game editor does not let me select 3-4-1-2 as a preferred formation for managers? 

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9 hours ago, jjkhe said:

So, I need to set 5-2-1-2 WB as Pirlo’s preferred formation to emulate Juventus’ 3-4-1-2 formation? 

Do you know why pre-game editor does not let me select 3-4-1-2 as a preferred formation for managers? 

That formation was removed from the list this year.

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On 26/11/2020 at 12:29, saosinfan4 said:

Bayern will pay Douglas Costa's full salary while he is on loan, not Juventus - https://twitter.com/kerry_hau/status/1313077434821025793  

Juventus pays Morata's salary, not Atletico. What is the monthly fee of €1,1m that Juventus pays to Atletico? Juventus paid a €10m loan fee for Morata.  

https://www.juventus.com/en/news/articles/welcome-home-alvaro

Atletico does not accept instalments in the game.

It's the same with Chiesa. €325k monthly fee, why?? Juventus will pay a €10m (2020/21 season €3m + 2021/22 season €7m) loan fee for Chiesa + €40m obligation to buy payable in three years

https://www.juventus.com/en/news/articles/federico-chiesa-is-bianconero

Cheers @saosinfan4. This is under review. Many thanks for reporting it to us.

In future these issues need to be reported in the forum for country that the player is loaned into.
So that would be Spain for Douglas Costa, Italy for Alvaro Morata.

It appears that some of the details of the loan deals were missed off. Apologies about that.

One that we'll correct for the next data update we do.

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13 hours ago, Ed Hewison said:

That formation was removed from the list this year.

So, the game no longer emulates teams that use 3-4-1-2 formation? 

I wonder why the formation was removed. To see Juventus play in 5-2-3 with Ronaldo as AML in FM21 is not right. 

Edited by jjkhe
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5 minutes ago, jjkhe said:

So, the game no longer emulates teams that use 3-4-2-1 formation? 

I wonder why the formation was removed. To see Juventus play in 5-2-3 with Ronaldo as AML in FM21 is not right. 

There are already in the game those formations, they are named 5-2-1-2 WB and 5-2-2-1 WB. In a 3-4-1-2, with MR/ML they don't act as defenders when defending so i think that's why they removed those formations!

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8 hours ago, andu1 said:

There are already in the game those formations, they are named 5-2-1-2 WB and 5-2-2-1 WB. In a 3-4-1-2, with MR/ML they don't act as defenders when defending so i think that's why they removed those formations!

Thanks for your reply. I changed Pirlo's preferred tactic to 5-2-1-2 WB in pregame editor and got very realistic numbers. I hope FM will change Juventus' formations in the next data update. 

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Just a minor recommendation, Calhanoglu in FMs natural position is LW, he was used in that position before Pioli arrived, when he arrived he started playing him in his natural position (CAM, same position he was used in when he was at Leverkusen) and his performances drastically changed, right now he's playing in this position, only when Brahim Dìaz starts he moves to the left wing.

I want also say that I agree about Juventus formation, really affects them and Ronaldo negatively in the game.

Edited by madskull.93
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A lot of Serie D clubs and lower (if not all) don't have facilities, youth coaching and recruitment values set. I don't know if something hasn't 'exported' during the database but clubs like Siena, Messina, Latina, Rimini have 0's in every line. 

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8 hours ago, jjkhe said:

Thanks for your reply. I changed Pirlo's preferred tactic to 5-2-1-2 WB in pregame editor and got very realistic numbers. I hope FM will change Juventus' formations in the next data update. 

You're right that Pirlo seems to favour a two-striker formation, particularly in the league.

That's one that I'm sure researchers in Italy will be aware of and be reviewing for the next data update.

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ac milan has retired number 3 and number 6 for honoring maldini and baresi but, in fm21 player can give these numbers to players.

could you please remove number 3 and 6 as available numbers for ac milan? in fm20 i can't give number 3 and 6 to players and i really like that feature

Edited by Fleaxel
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1 hour ago, Fleaxel said:

ac milan has retired number 3 and number 6 for honoring maldini and baresi but, in fm21 player can give these numbers to players.

could you please remove number 3 and 6 as available numbers for ac milan? in fm20 i can't give number 3 and 6 to players and i really like that feature

Hi @Fleaxel. You should be unable to select those numbers as Milan manager.
This has been set up the same this year, as it was last year.

Please upload a save game if that is not the case for you.

 

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5 hours ago, Ed Hewison said:

You're right that Pirlo seems to favour a two-striker formation, particularly in the league.

That's one that I'm sure researchers in Italy will be aware of and be reviewing for the next data update.

Thank you. I would also like to thank researchers in Italy for their hard work in making FM a realistic simulation of the soccer. 

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A lot of team in Serie A doesn't have rivalry sets. Torino FC doesn't have any rivalries while there's should be the Turin Derby against Juventus. Inter, Lazio, and other clubs as well doesn't have the correct rivalries. Like Napoli should got the fierce rivalry against Juventus. I hope you can solve this issue to improve the realism in the Serie A.

 

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On 01/12/2020 at 19:09, Ed Hewison said:

Hi @Fleaxel. You should be unable to select those numbers as Milan manager.
This has been set up the same this year, as it was last year.

Please upload a save game if that is not the case for you.

 

There was a bug with retired numbers in Holland. It might be universal.

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I will keep posting that hoping that somebody from SI will reply sooner or later. A lot of team in Serie A doesn't have rivalry set. Like Torino FC doesn't have any rivalries while there's should be the Turin Derby against Juventus. Inter, Lazio, and other clubs as well doesn't have the correct rivalries. Like Napoli should got the fierce rivalry against Juventus. I hope you can solve this issue to improve the realism in the Serie A.

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2 hours ago, matthrix93 said:

I will keep posting that hoping that somebody from SI will reply sooner or later. A lot of team in Serie A doesn't have rivalry set. Like Torino FC doesn't have any rivalries while there's should be the Turin Derby against Juventus. Inter, Lazio, and other clubs as well doesn't have the correct rivalries. Like Napoli should got the fierce rivalry against Juventus. I hope you can solve this issue to improve the realism in the Serie A.

Very strange. They are shown as being set up in the editor. They just dont show up in game

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Inter have a club culture set of signing Italian players. 8 of 26 players in their first team squad are Italian and the whole reason the club exists and broke away from AC Milan is because they wanted to sign foreign players, it is literally the name of the club. Just absolutely bizarre.

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As you can see, Juventus got set the correct Turin  Derby under "Derby" (even if Torino is put in other rivalries while should be in fierce rivalry), but Torino got no Fierce rivarly against Juventus and not even the Turin Derby under the voice Derby. Same issue with Napoli as they should got a fierce rivarly against Juventus, as was in last year FM. I hope to got an answer from Data resercher and i hope this issue can be solved asap from SI because ruins a lot of realism when you start a career in Italy.

 

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Napoli Should got a fierce rivarly with JUventus, but is not set, and should have a lot of minor rivalries between clubs in the south of Italy. They also got a derby against Palermo, but Palermo is not amongs rival,not major or minor20201207152004_1.thumb.jpg.2b42eea464f0227990daa44810b7611b.jpg

 

Other issues found:

- AC Milan got a lot of other rivalries not set, especially like the one against Atalanta that is not set in the graphic.

- Fiorentina should got a fierce rivalry against Juventus that is not set. They should also got a minor rivalry against bologna that is not set between the Fiorentina rivalries, but is set in Bologna's ones.

- Inter doesn't display Ac Milan between major rivals. They also miss a lot of minor rivals like other clubs in Lombardia.

- Cagliari got the derby against Palermo set, but Palermo is not set between major or minor rivals

 

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Again, as i have documented all those mistakes, i really hope to got an answer from someby of the data reserch or from SI hoping that they will fix those issues with rivalries in Italy. Last yera's Fm got rivalries set the correct way it seemed, and i hope they can fix this asap. There are also a lot of mistakes like that in other italian clubs, so i rellay hope all this major issues to be fixed to reflect a correct realism in Fm careers in Italy without being forced to used a custom database.

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37 minutes ago, matthrix93 said:

Again, as i have documented all those mistakes, i really hope to got an answer from someby of the data reserch or from SI hoping that they will fix those issues with rivalries in Italy. Last yera's Fm got rivalries set the correct way it seemed, and i hope they can fix this asap. There are also a lot of mistakes like that in other italian clubs, so i rellay hope all this major issues to be fixed to reflect a correct realism in Fm careers in Italy without being forced to used a custom database.

These derbies and rivalries are all set in the database. If you check the editor they are their. But for some reason they don’t show in game. 

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Hi @matthrix93. Please try not to post multiple messages in a row, and try to keep all issues you have spotted to a single post.
I'll move everything you've said into one post, so that when the Head Researcher of Italy sees this thread, they will be able to review everything you've mentioned.

As has been pointed out by @wicksyFM. The rivalries are there in data, but are being hidden by some code or possibly a UI issue.

If you were to use the In-Game Editor you can see these rivalries are present. 

image.thumb.png.917b5c3e5699f489bd9fe2eed485af6b.png

Cheers for posting your issue on the forums, and we'll aim to not hide these well-known rivalries where we can.

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4 minutes ago, Ed Hewison said:

Hi @matthrix93. Please try not to post multiple messages in a row, and try to keep all issues you have spotted to a single post.
I'll move everything you've said into one post, so that when the Head Researcher of Italy sees this thread, they will be able to review everything you've mentioned.

As has been pointed out by @wicksyFM. The rivalries are there in data, but are being hidden by some code or possibly a UI issue.

If you were to use the In-Game Editor you can see these rivalries are present. 

image.thumb.png.917b5c3e5699f489bd9fe2eed485af6b.png

Cheers for posting your issue on the forums, and we'll aim to not hide these well-known where we can.

That’s good to know. 👍Would a fix be save game compatible. 

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Hi 

Those screens posted are subject to licensing approval from the relevant licensor. They have approval over which Derbies and Rivalries appear on that screen and we have to comply with those requests.

Cheers,

David

 

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24 minutes ago, David Siddall said:

Hi 

Those screens posted are subject to licensing approval from the relevant licensor. They have approval over which Derbies and Rivalries appear on that screen and we have to comply with those requests.

Cheers,

David

 

This is why they will be hidden on the Club Overview screen then, @matthrix93 & @wicksyFM.

They will need to stay hidden in game for this reason. 

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1 minute ago, Ed Hewison said:

This is why they will be hidden on the Club Overview screen then, @matthrix93 & @wicksyFM.

They will need to stay hidden in game for this reason. 

That’s a shame. But at least I know that underneath they are working. 
Would new dynamic rivalries show for these clubs or are they permanently locked

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3 hours ago, David Siddall said:

Hi 

Those screens posted are subject to licensing approval from the relevant licensor. They have approval over which Derbies and Rivalries appear on that screen and we have to comply with those requests.

Cheers,

David

 

Always wondered about those and the favourite staff issues of Italian licensed teams.

isn’t it a matter of explaining the functionality to the clubs? I’d suspect that they unintentionally haven’t approved stuff like rivals, favourite staff, etc., and that, if provided with the context, they would.

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Per this thread, Edoardo Colombo is showing as home grown for Zebre. However, he has only spent a single season with them in the youth team, with the remainder of his time with the club being on loan with Carpi (2018/19), Torres (2019/20) and currently Legnago Salus. As such, he does not meet the requirements for being club homegrown with Zebre, and that should be removed to have him only being home grown with Cesena. 

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