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[England Premier Division] Data Issues


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On 24/11/2020 at 20:51, XaW said:

For what it's worth, Pete, Liverpool bought Bertrand on my save as well

Might be random, but it's strange that Liverpool bought in him in two different saves.

It's happened in my save game aswell, Liverpool bid over 12m for him

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Not sure I am in the correct topic, but EPL goal of the month doesn't seem to work. I was doing test saves for my editor files and saw that the "goal of the month" was greyed even after 4-5 season. So, I thought that maybe something I did in my files messed it up and started a new holiday save with no editor files. This still remains. The same issue happens with France and Italy goal of the Month and Season.

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how come on fm20 and 21 scouts dont have correct pre set knowledge of showing in the game? for example kiko espinar of liverpool is set in database as showing as has knowledge of spain and portugal (correctly as liverpools head of region), however it doesnt show in game but did in fm19. Kind of unnecessary to take it out as adds more realism

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8 hours ago, basqueliverpool said:

how come on fm20 and 21 scouts dont have correct pre set knowledge of showing in the game? for example kiko espinar of liverpool is set in database as showing as has knowledge of spain and portugal (correctly as liverpools head of region), however it doesnt show in game but did in fm19. Kind of unnecessary to take it out as adds more realism

 

If it is in the database but not showing in-game it's an issue for the Transfers, Scouting etc bug forum.

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To brighton research: lallana missing premier league winner with liverpool, also fifa club world cup winner (21/12/2019), which he came in as substitute

 

neverming: whole liverpool squad missing the club world cup achievement: https://www.fifa.com/clubworldcup/matches/match/400089362/#match-lineups

Edited by b13v3r
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18 hours ago, Mikkyk said:

Rekeem Harper (of West Brom) is marked as being born in London.

I believe he should be marked as being born in Birmingham (as I think he was in previous versions).

Evidence:

Thanks, @Mikkyk - we haven't actually detailed Harper's city of birth in the database, and I can't find anything concrete to say where he was born (wikipedia and transfermarkt are useful tools but are not always accurate, and an accent doesn't always correspond to a place of birth).  I'll look into it further.  Thanks again.

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44 minutes ago, b13v3r said:

To brighton research: lallana missing premier league winner with liverpool, also fifa club world cup winner (21/12/2019), which he came in as substitute

 

neverming: whole liverpool squad missing the club world cup achievement: https://www.fifa.com/clubworldcup/matches/match/400089362/#match-lineups

Thanks @b13v3r - this is indeed an oversight - sorry, and thanks for bringing it to our attention.

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naby keita: he's 2 years in England. As I remember his transfer was announced earlier as well. He has no knowledge of English language?

I dont know the Lad in person, got no idea of his languages, but guess the minimum of his english language must be "2" in editor. Imagine the guy must go to the bakery.... :-)

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14 minutes ago, b13v3r said:

naby keita: he's 2 years in England. As I remember his transfer was announced earlier as well. He has no knowledge of English language?

I dont know the Lad in person, got no idea of his languages, but guess the minimum of his english language must be "2" in editor. Imagine the guy must go to the bakery.... :-)

Looks like he might be getting there slowly https://www.thisisanfield.com/2019/10/naby-keita-much-better-after-big-step-with-language/

It's not unheard of though. Claudio Bravo and Nicolas Otamendi left with hardly a word of the language between them.

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21 hours ago, Mikkyk said:

Rekeem Harper (of West Brom) is marked as being born in London.

I believe he should be marked as being born in Birmingham (as I think he was in previous versions).

Evidence:

@Mikkyk thanks...it is set as unknown so I’m guessing it’s randomly selected this. However I will look into it. Thanks 😊 @Pete Sottreli will come back to you later

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On 29/11/2020 at 15:33, Mikkyk said:

Rekeem Harper (of West Brom) is marked as being born in London.

I believe he should be marked as being born in Birmingham (as I think he was in previous versions).

Evidence:

@Mikkyki have now set this for the winter update

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Ward-Prowse should have at least a 19 in free-kicks, if not a 20. Even in summer he was one of the best freekick takers on the planet, with his freekick goals this season he has the best direct freekick conversion rate of all footballers in major leagues on the planet.

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8 hours ago, Celestiale said:

Ward-Prowse should have at least a 19 in free-kicks, if not a 20. Even in summer he was one of the best freekick takers on the planet, with his freekick goals this season he has the best direct freekick conversion rate of all footballers in major leagues on the planet.

If you read and follow the first post then you'll give the Southampton researcher tangible evidence to look into your opinion in more detail.

Edited by diddydaddydoddy
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Not sure how anyone can argue against him being near the very top of the 1-20 scale to be honest. Been renowned for his delivery for years and showing a real consistency with it this season. What does a theoretical Free Kicks 20 player deliver if Ward-Prowse is 16?

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Here is enough evidence to rethink the rating of pretty much everyone of the best freekick takers on the planet: https://soccerment.com/bend-like-beckham-top-free-kick-takers-europe/

This article is from last april and even then Ward-Prowse was amongst the best direct freekick takers (for example better then Messi who has 19 in FM). Since then Ward-Prowse has even massively upped his conversion rate. If you factor in the higher level of goalkeeping in the Prem compared to other leagues like La Liga or Serie A, this should be regarded even higher.

This article (written before his last free-kick goal against United) mentions him as the most prolific free-kick taker in the Prem ever, with the the slender age of just 26. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/05/james-ward-prowse-free-kick-technique-england-southampton#:~:text=Matt Le Tissier had held,the statistic in 2003-04.

"Ward-Prowse had created a little piece of history. Matt Le Tissier had held the club record for the number of free-kick goals scored in the Premier League era with seven. Now Ward-Prowse had eight. They have come from 64 attempts, giving him a conversion rate of 12.5% – the highest since Opta began keeping the statistic in 2003-04." 

Now he has 9!

 

More then enough to warrant a 20 in free kick taking.

 

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58 minutes ago, Celestiale said:

Here is enough evidence to rethink the rating of pretty much everyone of the best freekick takers on the planet: https://soccerment.com/bend-like-beckham-top-free-kick-takers-europe/

This article is from last april and even then Ward-Prowse was amongst the best direct freekick takers (for example better then Messi who has 19 in FM). Since then Ward-Prowse has even massively upped his conversion rate. If you factor in the higher level of goalkeeping in the Prem compared to other leagues like La Liga or Serie A, this should be regarded even higher.

This article (written before his last free-kick goal against United) mentions him as the most prolific free-kick taker in the Prem ever, with the the slender age of just 26. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/05/james-ward-prowse-free-kick-technique-england-southampton#:~:text=Matt Le Tissier had held,the statistic in 2003-04.

"Ward-Prowse had created a little piece of history. Matt Le Tissier had held the club record for the number of free-kick goals scored in the Premier League era with seven. Now Ward-Prowse had eight. They have come from 64 attempts, giving him a conversion rate of 12.5% – the highest since Opta began keeping the statistic in 2003-04." 

Now he has 9!

 

More then enough to warrant a 20 in free kick taking.

 

Thanks @Celestiale - your posts have given me a great excuse to rewatch Ward-Prowse's excellent free kicks and, even better, to indulge in some of Le Tissier's (many) finest moments.

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Playing the game on iPad but guessing this is a data issue on all formats - for Liverpool Nathaniel Phillips is erroneously called “Nathan Philips” on the game.  Wikipedia page 

 

Also (slightly more subjective) Curtis Jones is down a being “right only” for preferred foot. Think this is harsh as he is very comfortable playing off his left foot, as is evidenced every time he plays. May not be completely two-footed (I’d say he’s pretty close) but certainly “right-only” is too harsh

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Petr Cech was listed as the 4th Chelsea GK just in case one of the other 3 GKs catches COVID. Since covid is not the game, and in every test save I run, Chelsea sell Caballero and buy another GK, Cech should stop being a player in FM 2021. Also, Joe and Ashley Cole are both coaches and not retired persons. Joe was at Chelsea u18 last season but quit to get a job in the national team, that COVID situation prevented (but still is a coach) and Ashley is with the u15s who I know that are not present in game but he IS a normal youth coach.

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On 04/12/2020 at 17:23, Pete Sottrel said:

Thanks @Celestiale - your posts have given me a great excuse to rewatch Ward-Prowse's excellent free kicks and, even better, to indulge in some of Le Tissier's (many) finest moments.

when review this, I also want to point out that, Sigurðsson freekick should also be review. 

He seldom have chance to take freekick, so there is lack of prove of this freekick rating downgrade.

 

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Sheffield United u23 player Hassan Ayari has accepted a call up to the Tunisian u20 squad so he should be primarily Tunisian:

https://www.sheffieldunited.news/news/hassan-ayari-gets-tunisia-call-as-sheffield-united-unearth-yet-another-gem/

He also seems to declare for Tunisia internationally according to his club: "Despite his mixed heritage, Ayari says that he will play international football for Tunisia if the opportunity ever presents itself."

https://www.sheffieldunited.news/news/hassan-ayari-on-joining-sheffield-united-and-breaking-into-the-first-team/

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Dominic Calvert-Lewin

Speed 15 is too low, it should be 17-19 in my opinion, slightly slower than Sane.

 

He is the fastest player during season 2017-2018 with a speed of 34.935, faster than waler, sane:

https://talksport.com/football/417949/fastest-players-in-the-premier-league-this-season-sane-richarlison-aubameyang/

You can also find that Sane's top speed during PL career is 35.48 km/h in this article.

 

And so far in this season, his top speed is 35.1 km/h, even faster than before. "He is a very athletic player, reaching a top speed of 35.1 km/h in the Premier League this season, the sixth highest of any player. " 

https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/how-dominic-calvert-lewin-became-one-of-the-premier-leagues-deadliest-strikers/

 

Jumping reach 16 is low, should be 17-18, cz he sit 4th in PL areal won table this season, and you can see this in his matchs too.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/aerial_won

 

 

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On 25/11/2020 at 17:13, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Manchester united's club culture seems to be getting bloated a bit too much. I know there's a bit of an identity crisis on the field, but it could do with toning down. Things need to be running consistently to get added as a cultural philosophy of the club IMO;

 

This year they are saddled with:

* Play Attacking football

* Develop players using youth

* Sign players U22 for future

* Sign high rep players

* Sign English players

* Play Entertaining football

* Sign U23 for first team.

 

That's a lot of additions from FM20's:

* Play Entertaining football

* Develop Youth

And then from FM19:

* Play entertaining

* High profile signings

* Youth for the first team

* Develop Youth.

 

FM18:

* Attacking football

* Youth for the first team

 

What I'm saying is, it needs to be consistent across the years; Attacking football and youth development are two clear philosophies United have always had, and will always value (I think the entertaining football is redundant, the onus is on attack or trying to anyway, so one or the other is fine, but both is a bit... off?) The additions of the transfer philosophies seem better suited to being pinned on the manager and/or Ed Woodward rather than being pinned as a club philosophy.

 

One season of English dominated signings is not a cultural shift to English signings, otherwise, this season's transfer window would be rounded out with a bit more of the old English perhaps? Five new signings, none are English. (There's more English players leaving than incoming... so?)

High reputation signings seems to be a Woodward thing rather than a club cultural thing, and the U22 for future/U23 for first team seems to be superfluous additions, that should be fulfilled as a side effect of the youth development, but aren't central aims of the club - or at least, their signings over recent seasons aren't driving towards that, bar the 2019 window tbh.

Sorry for the delayed response but wanted to make sure this was acknowledged - some fair points here and I'll be making a few changes. One thing I'd say is that the club 'ambitions' and the personal 'ambitions' of the person in charge are merged in-game, so you are seeing a combination of club culture ambitions and stuff from Woodward (high profile signings is only set for Woodward, for example, so were he to leave in-game that wouldn't be there).

On the attacking/entertaining football thing - probably fair although you could make a case that a proper kick and rush style would theoretically be 'attacking' but also ugly enough to not go down well with the fans. Will tweak it at least.

Fair point on the English player thing (I do think United have had a bit more onus on having an English or at least British core than some of the other big clubs but part of that is probably a by-product of the youth emphasis), will lower that at least.

The high rep thing is a Woodward thing as said so I'm happy enough with that.

I do think the players under 22/23 thing is worth looking at as separate to the youth development side - I think that's been a pretty big factor over the last few decades really (thinking particularly of signings like Ronaldo, Rooney etc), looking to bring in and develop superstars rather than flat-out buying them. I can see a few more tweaks I want to make but it's also setup so that Woodward expects most signings to make commercial sense in terms of resale value (so he'd be happy to authorise spending big money on, say, Haaland, less so someone like Lewandowski). I think both on the club and the Woodward side they're also set at a level where you're very unlikely to fall foul of them (desirable rather than essential, and even then at the lower level of desirable).

One other thing I'd say is that things have changed in terms of the options we've had open to us for these settings over the years so that partly explains the changes year-on-year.

Appreciate the considered input anyway and there'll definitely be some changes in the winter update :)

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7 hours ago, acceptz said:

Jumping reach 16 is low, should be 17-18, cz he sit 4th in PL areal won table this season, and you can see this in his matchs too.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/aerial_won

Our guidelines put the Jumping Reach for a player of Calvert-Lewin's height (1.87m) at between 12 and 16, so he's at the top end of the scale due to his obvious quality in that department. Higher ratings are used for exceptionally tall players who also have a great leap. Players who can outleap Calvert-Lewin in-game will (or at least should) be rare.

The ability to win aerial duels comes down to a combination of attributes (aggression, bravery, strength) not Jumping Reach alone.

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Pace is tricky to judge based on match data alone (some players simply don't make max effort sprints without the ball slowing them down) but I've got 37kph in my head as the top end speedsters. I know Adama Traore can/has hit that and Dan James has been clocked a shade under it. At his peak Gareth Bale was capable of that. Last season Soyuncu hit 37.5kph supposedly, according to one quickly-googled article. Defenders often do well in those charts due to long legs and desperate chases to make challenges.

"Slow" PL players top out around the 30kph mark to give a sense of how a 1-20 scale should work. But again it's hard to judge as many players don't do regular sprints in perfect measurable conditions.

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13 小时前, swansongs说:

Our guidelines put the Jumping Reach for a player of Calvert-Lewin's height (1.87m) at between 12 and 16, so he's at the top end of the scale due to his obvious quality in that department. Higher ratings are used for exceptionally tall players who also have a great leap. Players who can outleap Calvert-Lewin in-game will (or at least should) be rare.

The ability to win aerial duels comes down to a combination of attributes (aggression, bravery, strength) not Jumping Reach alone.

Ok, fair enough, thanks for your reply.

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13 小时前, swansongs说:

Pace is tricky to judge based on match data alone (some players simply don't make max effort sprints without the ball slowing them down) but I've got 37kph in my head as the top end speedsters. I know Adama Traore can/has hit that and Dan James has been clocked a shade under it. At his peak Gareth Bale was capable of that. Last season Soyuncu hit 37.5kph supposedly, according to one quickly-googled article. Defenders often do well in those charts due to long legs and desperate chases to make challenges.

"Slow" PL players top out around the 30kph mark to give a sense of how a 1-20 scale should work. But again it's hard to judge as many players don't do regular sprints in perfect measurable conditions.

I agree it hard to judge because many players doesn't have the right condition to sprints without the ball, but I still think Lewin's pace is underrated in game. 

Look at this video, it's the highlights of the match Burnley vs Everton,  you can start from 7:12. It shows how fast Lewin is, and we can see he is much faster than any other players on the pitch, like Richarlison. 

This sample is for reference only, I still respect your effort and reply here.

By the way, it seems the algorithm of caculate top speed by OPTA has changed, we can find that the top speed of season 2020 is about 2-2.5 higher than previous seasons.

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On 08/12/2020 at 16:12, MrMadLeprechaun said:

Sheffield United u23 player Hassan Ayari has accepted a call up to the Tunisian u20 squad so he should be primarily Tunisian:

https://www.sheffieldunited.news/news/hassan-ayari-gets-tunisia-call-as-sheffield-united-unearth-yet-another-gem/

He also seems to declare for Tunisia internationally according to his club: "Despite his mixed heritage, Ayari says that he will play international football for Tunisia if the opportunity ever presents itself."

https://www.sheffieldunited.news/news/hassan-ayari-on-joining-sheffield-united-and-breaking-into-the-first-team/

Thanks @MrMadLeprechaun

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Dan Ashworth's role at Brighton is essentially a combination of Technical Director & DoF in game, I think he should at least have DoF as a secondary job as IRL he's in charge of contracts and finalising transfers, although the Chief Scout Paul Winstanley also plays a role. Difficult to replicate in game accurately but I think Ashworth should have the DoF role as you can't assign the main responsibilities he has without it.

"In the main, Paul Winstanley - who is a really experienced Head of Recruitment - would lead of transfers in and I would lead on new contracts and transfers out, but we do it as a team.

If we’re getting to the end of a really busy transfer window and have three or four plates spinning then I might pick up one transfer in, Paul might pick up one, (chief executive) Paul Barber might pick up one. Paul Winstanley would generally lead the initial stages of negotiation and then he and I would tend to finish it off."

 

He also has rating of 2 for 'Develop youth using the clubs youth system' which I think should be higher based on this comment from the same interview.

"Of all my roles, the one I’m most passionate about is opening up pathways for young players. Sometimes I've seen clubs work in silos and the Academy is working all hours god sends to try and develop players for the first team and the recruitment department is working all hours god sends to try and sign players.

Of all the things I’ve learnt in the 13 years I’ve been a Technical Director, the big one is that it's about giving young people a chance. That might be a young coach, a young player, a young physio - you don’t know quite what they can do until you give them an opportunity."

https://trainingground.guru/articles/dan-ashworth-inside-the-mind-of-a-technical-director

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On 29/11/2020 at 02:22, tv_capper said:

It's happened in my save game aswell, Liverpool bid over 12m for him

This has happened in all of my saves too. I wonder what makes the AI Klopp buy another left back when we have two good ones? (three with Milner even).

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I already mentioned him being underrepresented in the beta-forum, but i feel this has to be mentioned again: Shola Shoretire of Manchester United.

He is in the U23 squad, not in the U18. He is easily one of the best players there already and a definitive starter. 

In my save, if i force him into the U23, the staff constantly advises me to put him back to the U18 and never gives him even a minute to play.

I feel this should be fixed and his CA should be altered accordingly, to get him into the starting 11 of the U23s. I also feel his PA with -8.5 is really too low. Should be 9.5 or 10, he surely is one of the 5 most talented 16-year olds currently. Probably also the second most popular / noteworthy after Moukoko. 

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a) His CA is already one of the highest of any 16yo in the country (probably in the entire database). We can’t predict the future - at the time of submitting the data he’d started a few of the U23 games without being particularly impressive at all, so nothing needs ‘fixing’. If his current form continues he’ll certainly be in line for an improvement in the winter update, but we don’t typically raise CAs to force a player to be picked for a certain team, given there are other factors beyond ability that go into team selection.

b) A -10 PA would be absurd at this stage. There’s one in the entire database currently (a player who was playing first team football to a good standard at 16). There are very few -95s and again most/all of those have a much stronger case. The sort of rating you are asking for is guaranteed world-class potential, and if you’re basing your judgement off watching him play rather than just hype then that isn’t a call you can realistically make at this stage. Even Mason Greenwood didn’t get that sort of PA at the same stage and he was far more impressive at the same age.

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Worth noting that there's a lot of young players featuring in u23s sides at the moment due to the coronavirus, with first team bubbles preventing top u23s (those who train in the first team) from mixing regularly with academy players. Swansea's u23s have given debuts and starts to at least 4 16 year olds already this season, without it necessarily being a mark of exceptional ability. Early advancement is easier at the moment in real life compared to the gameworld where covid isn't a factor, so it's sensible not to get too excited by appearances at this stage.

Edited by swansongs
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19 hours ago, swansongs said:

Worth noting that there's a lot of young players featuring in u23s sides at the moment due to the coronavirus, with first team bubbles preventing top u23s (those who train in the first team) from mixing regularly with academy players. Swansea's u23s have given debuts and starts to at least 4 16 year olds already this season, without it necessarily being a mark of exceptional ability. Early advancement is easier at the moment in real life compared to the gameworld where covid isn't a factor, so it's sensible not to get too excited by appearances at this stage.

You have obviously not seen Shoretire play, he's entirely there on merit.

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3 hours ago, Clintabn said:

You have obviously not seen Shoretire play, he's entirely there on merit.

I thought he was OK today, up against a young City U23 side (by policy). I wouldn't be rushing to break Nick's rating system for him, as tidy as he was.

As an aside I was impressed with some of Hanibal's movement, however. He's like a nouveau Pogba in lots of ways.

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11 minutes ago, Sean Blinkhorn said:

As an aside I was impressed with some of Hanibal's movement, however. He's like a nouveau Pogba in lots of ways.

If he sorts his temper out he's got a great future ahead of him.

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在 2020/12/10 在 PM1点27分, acceptz说:

I agree it hard to judge because many players doesn't have the right condition to sprints without the ball, but I still think Lewin's pace is underrated in game. 

Look at this video, it's the highlights of the match Burnley vs Everton,  you can start from 7:12. It shows how fast Lewin is, and we can see he is much faster than any other players on the pitch, like Richarlison. 

This sample is for reference only, I still respect your effort and reply here.

By the way, it seems the algorithm of caculate top speed by OPTA has changed, we can find that the top speed of season 2020 is about 2-2.5 higher than previous seasons.

I'm sorry, is there any researcher can take a look at this?

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I rest my case regarding Haller that his technique should be higher than 12, I'd recommend 15 at least with the scissor kicks he's performed at West Ham and also for his previous clubs.

Finishing 14 at least also because he has done well to score the goals he's had with limited chances, usually hits the target.

He always connects with the ball cleanly with the bicycle kicks and the Rabona passes he can do because the guy has clear unique ability.

 

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