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Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?


Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?   

510 members have voted

  1. 1. This is a genuine question, as from reading the forum this year, it seems that FM21 is even easier than previous versions, and they were already very easy to either win the league every single season with a half-decent team or get six promotions in eight seasons with any lower-league team, both of which are unrealistic.

    • Yes, the game is too easy for me, with any team, and would be more fun for the full release to be harder and offer a challenge
      309
    • No, the game is too easy, but I'm happy to overachieve as it's just a game
      32
    • No, the game isn't too easy and I can't win the league every single season with a half-decent team or get six promotions in eight seasons with any lower-league team
      169


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Please, be intelligent and post in the bug forum the problem with AI, complete with pkm.

If we rant in this thread we resolve nothing, and we lose time waiting for a patch. It's time to act, not to rant in a useless way (i know that internet today looks like this, but whatever). Firstly let we have a good game monday, than we can talk about everything 

Edited by RioImmagina
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3 minutes ago, Mcfc1894 said:

Yh the games way too easy I took Woking from the conference to the Champions League in 6 seasons

How?  What strategies did you use exactly?  Which detailed tactic(s)?  What transfers / loans did you use?  How did you set up Training?  Which match highlights did you use?  How did you manage match day?  Team Talks?  News conferences?  Player interaction?  And so on.

The more detail you can give SI, the better they may be able to understand where issues lie and what they may be able to do about it.

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16 minutes ago, herne79 said:

How?  What strategies did you use exactly?  Which detailed tactic(s)?  What transfers / loans did you use?  How did you set up Training?  Which match highlights did you use?  How did you manage match day?  Team Talks?  News conferences?  Player interaction?  And so on.

The more detail you can give SI, the better they may be able to understand where issues lie and what they may be able to do about it.

But isn't this a thing that many people have been able to do for years already? I don't do these type of saves in every version of FM but I do remember doing it on FM 2018 with Boston United. Got promoted after every season, first season in the Premier league 5th and second season won the title. And all this with "regular gameplay". 

Edited by Broken_Record
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20 minutes ago, RioImmagina said:

Please, @Neil Brock close this topic, at least before passive AI problem Will be solved. People come here thinking that writing "it's too Easy" will solve the problem. In order to solve the problems, we have to upload pkm and save, not "i won 30 match!"  

I take your point about uploading pkm, and I'll do it when I start a save.

But there is the wider issue that the game has been too easy to overachieve in for 5+ years.

I presume SI can see this already, so they should have all the data in the world to see how many people are overachieving and what formations/tactics seem to do it the most.

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4 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

I take your point about uploading pkm, and I'll do it when I start a save.

But there is the wider issue that the game has been too easy to overachieve in for 5+ years.

I presume SI can see this already, so they should have all the data in the world to see how many people are overachieving and what formations/tactics seem to do it the most.

Aside from uploading pkms though, what can anyone do about it even if you are right and they do want it to be easy?

We can't just talk about it forever, it's absolutely right that people joining the thread are asked to upload pkms and saves.

Otherwise we've just got loads of people shouting "it's too easy!" into the void.

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Hi everyone, I’m hearing that SI have acknowledged the beta is rather easy. Is that official? If so, have they said that this will be tweaked/fixed for full release?

 

Im struggling to find any specifics on this. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

I take your point about uploading pkm, and I'll do it when I start a save.

But there is the wider issue that the game has been too easy to overachieve in for 5+ years.

I presume SI can see this already, so they should have all the data in the world to see how many people are overachieving and what formations/tactics seem to do it the most.

They actually do not have any access to the data such as tactic being used. The PKMs are the only access they do have. 

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5 hours ago, gio said:

Can you give us / SI some more details on why you find it so easy, and what you mean when you say "All he has to do is change his opponent and he's got a chance"? With more details, SI might be able to make the necessary changes to make the game better. If you can upload some matches, SI could help. See here:

 

I don't know exactly how to explain it, but I have a style of play. I've got four clubs I play with the way I get it. They are Foggia, Cibalia, Wimbledon and Dynamo Dresden. Always in my first season I remove older players and rely on youth drive and cheap young potential. I need two to three seasons to make a team for the league more and then for bigger things. Up until fm 20, I immediately entered the first division with Cbalia with only 3 losses and 2 draws.

Fm 19 has already given an indication that it's easy. He was still good even if he was an unrealistic possession. Fm 20 was so easy and now I felt it was the same with fm 21. The opposing team needs to be reassessed. I can't say what's right but they need to throw that in with an fm 17 or 18 that I think was remarkable as to the weight of the gameplay.

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39 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

Hi everyone, I’m hearing that SI have acknowledged the beta is rather easy. Is that official? If so, have they said that this will be tweaked/fixed for full release?

 

Im struggling to find any specifics on this. Thanks!

 

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Didn't see the the bit where s.i acknowledged the beta was easy.i would love to hear there point of view on the subject.i am 10 games into my league 2 save with Exeter City in 2nd place.defo finding difficulty ok but I got no cash to spend plus a really slow bunch of centre backs so I can't play with anything but a standard line or would get ripped to pieces.i am really enjoying my save.its obvious that some people are finding it too easy tho not that I know the reasons why🤔

Edited by Weasek
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3 hours ago, Mcfc1894 said:

Yh the games way too easy I took Woking from the conference to the Champions League in 6 seasons

I got it!  Work like that doesn't go unnoticed 

Edited by davidmn27
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3 hours ago, Broken_Record said:

But isn't this a thing that many people have been able to do for years already? I don't do these type of saves in every version of FM but I do remember doing it on FM 2018 with Boston United. Got promoted after every season, first season in the Premier league 5th and second season won the title. And all this with "regular gameplay". 

Yes it has been around for years and potentially always be.  But unless people explicity state precisely what they have been doing to reach such over achievement and provide game save examples, it may not necessarily be easy for SI to recreate, assess and improve.  Reading through this thread it seems there is more than one way in which people are finding things "easy" so the more examples provided the better.

 

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1 hour ago, Weasek said:

Didn't see the the bit where s.i acknowledged the beta was easy.i would love to hear there point of view on the subject.i am 10 games into my league 2 save with Exeter City in 2nd place.defo finding difficulty ok but I got no cash to spend plus a really slow bunch of centre backs so I can't play with anything but a standard line or would get ripped to pieces.i am really enjoying my save.its obvious that some people are finding it too easy tho not that I know the reasons why🤔

I linked a thread where they acknowledge it directly above your post.

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6 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

I linked a thread where they acknowledge it directly above your post.

Oh the bit where they said its not a straight forward m.e. issue!?!.ok thank you I would like to hear more from them but I expect they are busy gathering info on the subject 

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On 17/11/2020 at 21:32, Piksi#10 said:

I don't get how people don't understand that there's no bragging here, a lot of people simply want a challenging game. Look at real life football, how hard it is for teams like PSG and Man City to reach that highest level of winning the Champions League. While on FM you can do that within 4 years with Bournemouth. 

Obviously this game doesn't mirror reality for the full 100% and never should, but there should be a real sense of accomplishment in winning major titles. That's all.

And I'm not talking about nerfing strikers either. Improve defending and AI management and we'll have come a long way already. 

Defending is actually over powered if anything looking at goal totals over a season.

But I suspect Its in fact the AI is so passive that it would rather lose 1-0 every game than try and win a game and risk getting a 4-0 thrashing.

Its fairly easy on FM to pack your 18 yard box and defend for 90 mins let the opposition have 30 shots and I hazard 7 outta 10 times they'll get zero or 1 goal!

AI needs to be far more adventurous in its tactics.

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Dont know how accurate these are but if the game is so easy why do only 8.6% of players have even won a domestic trophy according to steam, or even lower only 7.1% have won the iron curtain trophy, if these are accurate then it just shows how much of a minority even come to this forum.

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12 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Dont know how accurate these are but if the game is so easy why do only 8.6% of players have even won a domestic trophy according to steam, or even lower only 7.1% have won the iron curtain trophy, if these are accurate then it just shows how much of a minority even come to this forum.

Because most players aren't here in the forum and don't read guides. FM has so many factors that most players doing something wrong. If you know the game then it is too easy. I guess the game difficulty is balanced for players who just start the game after work and have their fun. That's bad news for experienced players who can compete in the UCL with a third league team after few seasons.

 

 

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vor 42 Minuten schrieb iAlwaysWin:

Dont know how accurate these are but if the game is so easy why do only 8.6% of players have even won a domestic trophy according to steam, or even lower only 7.1% have won the iron curtain trophy, if these are accurate then it just shows how much of a minority even come to this forum.

yup, and if you look through all the pages you could mean that 90% of the people find the game too easy, and also argue that almost everybody would say the same, but look at the polls, it's not that clear as this thread tells you;) there were arguments, that the steam stat's wouldn't be accurate...if we discuss with such arguments, it definetly will be a never-ending story in here...

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The more complex the game is, the easier it is for humans to defeat the A.I. The A.I can't manage a team properly with all the complexity of team cohesion, squad rotation and club management (staff, transfers etc)

Edited by kingking
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10 hours ago, Overmars said:

I don't think difficulty is the problem. It's the wild swings of form and how you can become invincible or useless based on prior match results -- that's what I'd love to see change.

Yea this definitely adds. In the past, the AI haven’t been that good at managing morale either. I’m keeping track on this problem now for FM21.

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10 hours ago, Overmars said:

I don't think difficulty is the problem. It's the wild swings of form and how you can become invincible or useless based on prior match results -- that's what I'd love to see change.

I agree with this 100%.  If you look at real life form tables, these kind of runs rarely happen - even to top or bottom sides in a division (only the very, very good/bad will have runs) - but in FM they are all too common.

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39 minutes ago, TexasDemon said:

I just won the Serie A with Bergamo by a mile, signed Donnarumma after the first year for free(!) - the AI cant handle their contracts probably i think. There are more Contract issues

 

Probably true this. Neymar in 2022 becomes free agent as well after refusing a new contract.

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41 minutes ago, TexasDemon said:

I just won the Serie A with Bergamo by a mile, signed Donnarumma after the first year for free(!) - the AI cant handle their contracts probably i think. There are more Contract issues

 

 

1 minute ago, CM said:

Probably true this. Neymar in 2022 becomes free agent as well after refusing a new contract.

Have either of you raised this in the bugs forum?

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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

 

Have either of you raised this in the bugs forum?

Nope. I stopped playing in November 2021 but when you search for players whose contract due to expire in 1 year it could be seen. 

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Watching some youtubers winning the league in their first and second seasons with teams like Everton and Newcastle is a joke and shouldn't be happening, abousutely I want the game to be harder. Its a simulation after all and winning the league with these teams should be a long term project not just pressing space bar. 

Edited by Weller1980
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11 hours ago, Weller1980 said:

Watching some youtubers winning the league in their first and second seasons with teams like Everton and Newcastle is a joke and shouldn't be happening, abousutely I want the game to be harder. Its a simulation after all and winning the league with these teams should be a long term project not just pressing space bar. 

This. Actually it makes content inherently worse as everyone it's just doing great no matter what!

 

I think the problem this year might be on moral? Have a good array of matches and there you go. AI Manager then plays passive against you, and the circle goes on. I was on a winning streak with my team, injuries came off and now I'm where I'm supposed to be and the matches are more harder now.

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Must be the Elite of the Elites to win the world club cup, only won by 0.5% of players according to steam, there was me thinking that the game was so easy that everyone accomplished everything in this game or users have actually played multiple seasons to actually back there claims.

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1 hour ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Dont think your IQ is high enough to get my point, and your more than happy to correct my grammer which isnt perfect because of laziness but you will struggle to find any spelling mistakes.

:lol::lol:

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3 hours ago, Nahuelzn said:

This. Actually it makes content inherently worse as everyone it's just doing great no matter what!

I think many streamers really give a bad image of the game. At least if you don't consider it as an arcade game in the first place. 

I mean it's fairly common to see them playing with key highlights and during matches just talking about something else than the match itself and "reacting" to things and making changes based on... Nothing, because they are not seeing anything that is happening during the games. 

This kind of gameplay should never be successful but sadly it has been for years. And the second bad thing is that SI have even collaborated with these kind of streamers. 

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12 minutes ago, Wavelberry said:

I've only ever seen a couple of streamers when they did that creators cup thing a few years back and I was absolutely blown away by the tactical madness on show. 

I can see clear reasons why it is a bad idea for SI to be promoting this type of a gameplay but on the other hand: it probably is good for the business and probably money is the one thing that counts most. 

This on the other hand could be changed as probably there are also streamers that do know how to play the game and who pay attention to features and details. Sadly they are probably not the most popular ones though. 

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38 minutes ago, Christmas said:

The snowy/frosted pitch cover design art is again in FM game many times more snowy/frosted than any top division top rank league game has been in about 15 years. 

Can anyone show me picture of la liga teams on white frosted pitch?

image.jpeg.1a94228d847612b9eef790fac68be40c.jpeg

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it feels the values dont reflect at all in the game..

resistance...fadigue...we see it in the heart condition but dont see effect on the field...

as tecnique or passing for example...many times weak passing players do a match with great passes like they were iniesta.

fadigue for me always have been an issue in fm

i cant remember make a subs because my player is finish and stars to make bad decisions...bad passes...why....because i believe if a player has good composer...good passing...we will always do it well

no matter how tired he is

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1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

This version, as you're all aware, is a beta which means it is unfinished. We've very much appreciated all the feedback we've received across the entire game and due to this on full release there will be some changes, fixes and tweaks.

Whilst I'm not in a position to go into specifics (and can confirm there 100% is not an AI difficulty dial we can turn up or down) we'll be interested to see how people find the game post full release.

Thanks.

Thank you, Neil. I very much hope that the change will be good and will make our game difficult. We need a challenge, not easy wins.

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1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

This version, as you're all aware, is a beta which means it is unfinished. We've very much appreciated all the feedback we've received across the entire game and due to this on full release there will be some changes, fixes and tweaks.

Whilst I'm not in a position to go into specifics (and can confirm there 100% is not an AI difficulty dial we can turn up or down) we'll be interested to see how people find the game post full release.

Thanks.

In an ideal world the people who feel the game is reasonably fine now carry on enjoying it as normal whilst the ones complaining its too easy never win a match again :brock:

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23 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

 this definitely adds. In the past, the AI haven’t been that good at managing morale either. I’m keeping track on this problem now for FM21.

I'd be interested to see this. Morale is huge in FM. Win a few games and it just escalates from there.

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