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Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?


Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?   

510 members have voted

  1. 1. This is a genuine question, as from reading the forum this year, it seems that FM21 is even easier than previous versions, and they were already very easy to either win the league every single season with a half-decent team or get six promotions in eight seasons with any lower-league team, both of which are unrealistic.

    • Yes, the game is too easy for me, with any team, and would be more fun for the full release to be harder and offer a challenge
      309
    • No, the game is too easy, but I'm happy to overachieve as it's just a game
      32
    • No, the game isn't too easy and I can't win the league every single season with a half-decent team or get six promotions in eight seasons with any lower-league team
      169


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Just now, Mars_Blackmon said:

Lol I'm not even sure what is even being argued. 

Yeah I think there is something missing here either he's not understanding me or vice versa. If you look at his 4 points like his last point just means that I should accept that if I play like Liverpool and I get results as Liverpool even though I'm playing as another team than I should accept the results? Am I missing something here because that is how I interpreted that.

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I will give my opinion on this, since I already gave it on some posts.

 

As normally since fm08 I would start my first save on my team FC Porto, normally I would be winning title and getting knocked out of champions in groups if the group we get were hard, or getting 1st round but losing it. This year, I would go to quarters, only losing to Juventos ( even played better but got fm'ed) , for me this is normal, what isn' normal is the way games are happening, and attencin on porto, doing the same they try to implement in real life, I was playing high line, high press and high tempo, with short passes. Get to the second season and after 10 win without 1 goal conceded, come to the forum to see if it was only me that was finding game really really easy ( because if you play  like me since fm08 you notice the difference) , and in fact there was already a post where I posted after, talking about this ( the one SI closed it) . But as I was reading I was showned that my formation was probably op ( it might be, but no excuse for the game to be so unbalance between teams from the same league ).

 

So I started my second save, on the 6th tier with Curzhon Asthon, style llm, masked on attributes, I would say with the rules that Lollujo uses, even me not following any youtubers on dayly basis, find super interesting the way he do it, so I really use them for myself to, hired 3 guys indicated by scouts, not even starters on the team, and did a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 as you prefer to call it, deep defense, not countering when losing the ball, the counter attack mentality , with a lot of press on or half of the field, and guess what, I'm smashing, with a team that should go 19th ( if i dont go wrong or 2 positions) , I'm 2nd on january and ofc I'm not feeling like playing till the game comes out on the 24th expecting some fix from SI.

 

I love the way they did the game this year, but for it to get better I can't win everytime I have a plan and I do things with the team as I would do if I was their real manager to overarchieve , and this isn't talking about being easy, but about being free, I will not have the pain to try to explain to someone that is doing bad this fm that the game is a lot easier, because when you do things bad, really bad, and counter the sence of football you shouldnt be winning and thats what happen, but if you have experience, and know how to put your ideia on the game ME, you will not struglle to win, and this SHOULDN'T be the case.

 

Sorry for the bad English, but I guess is possible to understand.

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb harrycarrie:

Couple that tactic with player instructions and it happens. You have to use both, and someone please don't tell me doing that is unrealistic as its part of the game!

 

Literally telling one player to stay wider can change how a tactic flows. Shoot more/less etc, it all has an effect. When I make tactics, and it doesn't matter what formation, I dictate shape and PIs. They are both integral.

 

Since starting FM on CM 01/02 I've won everything from all levels. Its impossible not to when hours spent is in the tens of thousands of hours. Nowadays I just like to break and blitz, very attacking, lets go.

 

Give me 7-4 over 0-0 any day of the week.

hold on a second....you can't just bring up other stuff that needs to be set after I run the test. I wanted to show that you don't generally overachieve when you just set your tactics to gegenpress or the tactic you mentioned in a holiday-save. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Lol I'm not even sure what is even being argued. 

Nothing constructive to this conversation, mate.

Basically someone has gone on holiday after setting up an unrealistically attacking tactic and done well a couple of times.  They are then saying that this proves the entire game is "easy" and needs to be made harder instead of just posting evidence of what is clearly an overpowered tactic in the bugs forum.

It takes away from the entire argument/discussion that has been happening for the last few days.

It's like someone sitting in a near inaccessible/buggy area of a map on an FPS game, killing everyone, then demanding that they still be allowed to sit there but everyone else should be harder to kill.

:rolleyes:

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9 hours ago, vukigepard said:

You've missed the entire point, Fulham, with all due respect couldn't choose to play ultra attacking fluid football against manchester city whatever they did. You, in fm, as fullham can choose to play ultra offensive football against manchester city, there's a difference. If you don't have a problem with your right chose to play something that is impossible irl because you can, why do you have a problem with the consequences being unrealistic. 

You do know that Fulham are allowed to TRY to play attacking football, don't you?

There have been some poor teams in the past, like Norwich last season, that TRY to play attacking football.

The problem is, this game lets you massively overachieve when you do.

You can't be suggesting that we're only allowed to play a certain way depending on the team you pick.

Why even play at all then? Should we just pick a team to 'follow', let the game choose their tactics, and sim the whole game unemployed?

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I managed to be unbeatean with real madrid in my first season (Including Champions league) Yeah sure managing real is not that hard but if it is that easy, than managing top clubs will be a suffering. It should be harder

Edited by bemate98
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Just now, dannysheard said:

You do know that Fulham are allowed to TRY to play attacking football, don't you?

There have been some poor teams in the past, like Norwich last season, that TRY to play attacking football.

The problem is, this game lets you massively overachieve when you do.

You can't be suggesting that we're only allowed to play a certain way depending on the team you pick.

Why even play at all then? Should we just pick a team to 'follow', let the game choose their tactics, and sim the whole game unemployed?

I don't think anyone is suggesting this at all.  I think people are saying two things;

1- Unrealistic input is more likely to result in an unrealistic output

2- It is clear that overly attacking tactics allow you to massively overachieve as you have said.  This doesn't mean that the game should be made easier, it means the people posting entire seasons of holiday mode and everyone else complaining about it should upload evidence/saves in the bugs forum so that it can be fixed and then playing attacking football with a poor team won't see you winning the league every year. 

No one is arguing that overly attacking tactics result in overachievement.  We are just encouraging people who have evidence via a save to upload it, and in the meantime stop playing that way until it is fixed so they can get some enjoyment from their games.

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Just now, bemate98 said:

I managed to be unbeatean with real madrid in my first season. Yeah sure managing real is not that hard but if it is that easy, than managing top clubs will be a suffering. It should be harder

What tactic did you use?

Positive Gegenpress with lots of PI's by any chance?

Upload your save to the bugs forum if it's too easy and then it will be reviewed :)

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Experienced players are fully aware what the broad strokes of the problem are. Domination with high tier teams is quick, absolute, and perpetual, extending to international club tournaments. Middle tier teams, whether mid-table in the best top flights or elite in second tier top flights, take a few seasons to reach the apex and similarly don't look back. Lower tier teams all the way down the steps of the hierarchy rapidly progress and overachieve. The best and most accurate word to describe the performance of those of us who play this game relative to reality is ridiculous, nothing short of it. In fact, people resort to picking unknown teams at the bottom of scrap heaps and handicapping themselves with artificial restrictions to experience a worthwhile long term challenge. Who actually thinks that this is what players want to do? While the average impatient person may voice frustration I think there is an understanding among players with a brain that the game has a very low ceiling - you cannot play it seriously with many of the teams you would like to for long unless your idea of fulfillment is steamrolling unrealistically weak opposition. Even when managing bad teams the challenge comes from brute inferiority - is your team so bad that you can't overcome the AI's destruction of your opponents? Give it a season. It's just not a very fun experience to play a game against a self-destructive force. You end up questioning what you're doing even more than you should.

Experienced players identify the AI as the cause of the problem. I would like to point out that no one wants SI-net and the Terminator to trace itself back to Football Manager. No one expects this game to contribute to the development of learning artificial intelligence that takes not only your managerial job but also your real job. If this game's so-called AI cannot be told steps to follow ensuring it doesn't destroy everything it touches then this whole topic is moot and we can just part ways. There will always be people who play this game despite its fundamental lack of realism and the way it undermines its serious aspects. I'll leave it to others to go into detail as to how the AI turns teams into husks of what they should be.

My contribution is a few tips on what could be done after the game is made remotely realistic, as is supposedly the ultimate goal. Realism entails stratification and stagnation. Leicester City is a phenomenal exception. The upside of a realistic Football Manager should be a challenging and rewarding experience managing the teams that most players would like to manage - the successful ones with fans. Blasphemy, I know. The downside is a lot of teams may be denied the superlative level of success a lot of players seek. The question arises how to reconcile reality with a game.

I don't think different modes, difficulty levels, or game worlds (per se) are even necessary. Everything could be baked into the one true world some people here value so much. You implement progression within the realistic FM by realistic means - club ownership changes and geopolitical/economic development. Take any team within the deep English hierarchy. In a realistic FM you wouldn't be able to take the team across the hierarchy as the AI's dysfunction somehow lays waste to everything. What could happen, however, is your comparative good or overperformance attracting the attention of ever wealthier owners who invest money into your team, boost its reputation, and attract interest from a wider area (stadium size and ticket prices should correlate). Could be spontaneous events, could be tied to promotions or consistently improved standing, could be in the form of "quests" (e.g. the Arab royal family is buying a club in the EPL and it's between you, Southampton, Everton, and Wolves based on who performs best over a couple of seasons; [American businessmen, Chinese moguls, Russian industrialists, etc.; obviously different levels are needed as you go down, local businessmen, parties joining the ownership group, the owner him or herself finding the extra change in their pockets] individually based on squad stipulations or not and meeting performance/achievement thresholds; etc.). Obviously this would be a user-centric design and tied to performance, i.e. performance reliant progression. Haven't considered exactly how the fair play rules affect this.

A bit of a different challenge is presented by clubs from countries that don't have the best leagues. I know first-hand because that's how I play this game - not with a UK, Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch, etc. team. There it doesn't suffice to just rise in the domestic hierarchy and thereby rise in Europe, or wherever. Your whole country needs to rise as you either do well domestically and hit a low ceiling internationally or if global tycoons buy you then international club tournaments would be competitive but domestic football would be a waste of time. There you need the whole country's fortunes to change for the better outside of football, economically. That would justify better talent domestically as more people can pursue football and a better developmental infrastructure exists, higher player wages and fan revenue, you get the picture. Maybe a nation can just become football-crazy like Brazil. Whatever.

This stuff takes some creativity and seems to diverge from football but it's all about the progression gameplay effect it would have within a realistic football world rather than one ravaged by the AI plague that has been endemic to Football Manager. Simultaneously a realistic Football Manager would allow for a realistic challenging experience managing clubs that people would disproportionately like to manage.

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7 hours ago, vukigepard said:

I like the place where we came up to. Ok, so you can tell your player to play in a certain way to play offensive, but they're too slow, too unfit, to unwilling to fit. So are you then playing offensive because you told your team how to play, or how they are actually playing? That is the difference i wanted to point out. Playing the geggenpress and telling random players to play it is not the same, same as playing offensive. Problem here is that you can play geggenpress in fm, even if you couldn't with those players irl, and get the results that would come from viable supreme geggenpress irl, which is actually fine by me as i can either chose to play it or not. But i don't want the attacking nerfed because of it and have fm19 and 20 all over again.

But how do we know exactly what combinations of tactics and instructions are broken?

If I have a good season, do I enjoy it and try to repeat it the next season, or do I say 'broken tactics' and restart the game?

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10 hours ago, RioImmagina said:

No, i'm Sorry but you are wrong. We're not talking about a strange set up (like, idk, 5 defenders and 5 strikers). We are talking about 442, a standard tactic. This Is clearly a bug, It,'s impossible that ai can't understand a 442

Its literally almost exactly a tactic that's been proven to exploit the match engine by those who dig into the AI to figure these things out, coincidentally, I'm sure, also used on Newcastle. 

Best-FM-2021-Tactics-Knaps-BEOWULF-4-4-2-formation.png.2caa012b0cb08979e8af3c419d44fa09.png

You can download it online.

Search for "knaps 4-4-2" on Google and you'll find it.

The same boy who created this one has created a tactic that's exploited the ME for the past 3/4 years, again, something you'll see if you search the above term.

People can make their own assumptions about why someone is using a proven, long term, downloadable tactic to exploit the ME, and then claiming the game is "easy".

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7 hours ago, vukigepard said:

To the contrary, i'm saying that if they could play geggenpress irl like they could in the game, they would have pretty high numbers. But the thing that is unrealistic is not them scoring 40 goals a season by having the best tactical system right now, but them being able to play that system like they are liverpool players, which they can't, otherwise they would. So you don't want to limit the possibilites what they could play, but want to limit the results of that play. Seem's much more logic to me that everton can't play gegenpress like liverpool, than everton playing liverpool's geggenpress and expecting different results than liverpool. Because if everton played like liverpool, they would be liverpool. 

I think this is exactly our point, that the game should publis punish you for playing inappropriate tactics.

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10 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

But how do we know exactly what combinations of tactics and instructions are broken?

If I have a good season, do I enjoy it and try to repeat it the next season, or do I say 'broken tactics' and restart the game?

You don't know, but the developer does if the save is uploaded. If you think it is unrealistically easy, upload the save. If you think you've just had a good season, don't.

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4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Its literally almost exactly a tactic that's been proven to exploit the match engine by those who dig into the AI to figure these things out, coincidentally, I'm sure, also used on Newcastle. 

Best-FM-2021-Tactics-Knaps-BEOWULF-4-4-2-formation.png.2caa012b0cb08979e8af3c419d44fa09.png

You can download it online.

Search for "knaps 4-4-2" on Google and you'll find it.

The same boy who created this one has created a tactic that's exploited the ME for the past 3/4 years, again, something you'll see if you search the above term.

People can make their own assumptions about why someone is using a proven, long term, downloadable tactic to exploit the ME, and then claiming the game is "easy".

Funny timing - I literally just loaded up this YouTube video: 

 

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4 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

I think this is exactly our point, that the game should publis punish you for playing inappropriate tactics.

100% right. And if people upload saves where this is happening, it will stop happening in the end.

I would upload a save myself but I don't have one because I'm not overachieving because I don't use that tactic.

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1 minute ago, Junkhead said:

100% right. And if people upload saves where this is happening, it will stop happening in the end.

I would upload a save myself but I don't have one because I'm not overachieving because I don't use that tactic.

100% agree - I don't think it should be down to human players to enforce rules on themselves. The game should reward making good use of the resources available and punish the reverse.

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1 minute ago, Haribo1681 said:

100% agree - I don't think it should be down to human players to enforce rules on themselves. The game should reward making good use of the resources available and punish the reverse.

I play in the most realistic way possible because that's what I choose to do. I get realistic results.

Realistic input = realistic output.

 

The issue here is that the game should punish unrealistic play - Huesca would get torn apart trying to use an attacking tactic for 38 games in La Liga. The game should reflect this.

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1 minute ago, Junkhead said:

I play in the most realistic way possible because that's what I choose to do. I get realistic results.

Realistic input = realistic output.

 

The issue here is that the game should punish unrealistic play - Huesca would get torn apart trying to use an attacking tactic for 38 games in La Liga. The game should reflect this.

Totally agree. Looking at some of these examples, it strikes me that aggressive, attacking tactics are too effective in attack for lesser sides. In the video above, the stronger sides achieve roughly what you might expect but the weaker sides significantly over perform as a result of scoring large numbers of goals. IMO, sides trying to play beyond their ability should find it harder to score but leaving themselves vulnerable at the back more often than not. Or put another way, stronger AI sides should be able to keep out weaker sides trying to play beyond their means and then pick them off comfortably.

I'm the same as you - I wouldn't play as a side predicted to be relegated and set them up like a title contender. If I take over a side who are predicted to battle relegation and I find myself dominating the division, I wouldn't feel a sense of achievement, more a feeling that I'd stumbled across a crack in the game.

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IF SI would allow to increase the injuries-ratio from 80%, compared to real life back to 100%, the problem would already be much smaller....because of the intensive pressing-style a lot more players would end up being on the physio's table than on the pitch....but they made that because people were moaning about too many injuries...... A little change in the editor, problem solved.

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8 hours ago, Daveincid said:

I survived the season. It's like I said earlier...the AI has problems when a team uses a tactic, they won't use IRL according their status in the league. So Newcastle got some decent wins over Top Teams. The results were pretty high in average. If you have 2 teams that only attack, of course there will be some strange results like 5-4....And of course a player of your own team will be top-scorer. Your own Team has this strange kind of gameplay 38 times a season and the AI only when they play against you. End of Story.

NC.thumb.jpg.e891d73355dbd38ddac386d31fc2471d.jpg

613173431_Leaguetable.thumb.jpg.0ee15081bbaec441fa5fe561d856a4d7.jpg

I can absolutely guarantee you that if a poor team played those tactics in real life, they wouldn't end up with the two top scorers in the league. They wouldn't even be in games; they'd lost the midfield as the front four would be way too high up the pitch, and the strikers wouldn't get near the ball. 

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2 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

I can absolutely guarantee you that if a poor team played those tactics in real life, they wouldn't end up with the two top scorers in the league. They wouldn't even be in games; they'd lost the midfield as the front four would be way too high up the pitch, and the strikers wouldn't get near the ball. 

We all agree with you mate. So if you have a save where this is happening, upload it.

 

Edit: to clarify - we agree that a team like Newcastle being overly attacking would get hammered. Worried I've lost track of who is arguing what here lol

Edited by Junkhead
Clarity
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8 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

IF SI would allow to increase the injuries-ratio from 80%, compared to real life back to 100%, the problem would already be much smaller....because of the intensive pressing-style a lot more players would end up being on the physio's table than on the pitch....but they made that because people were moaning about too many injuries...... A little change in the editor, problem solved.

There was an editor file available the last couple of years which did this. Added lots of small 3-4 day injuries and upped the frequency. 👍

Edited by Junkhead
Which I have just realised you may well have created 😂
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vor 7 Minuten schrieb dannysheard:

I can absolutely guarantee you that if a poor team played those tactics in real life, they wouldn't end up with the two top scorers in the league. They wouldn't even be in games; they'd lost the midfield as the front four would be way too high up the pitch, and the strikers wouldn't get near the ball. 

never guaruantee something 100%:brock:

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7 hours ago, dominoes012 said:

I fully understand your points I want points 1-3 but the point of #4 is my team should not be able to get the same results as Liverpool. Liverpool can beat any team in the world on their day meanwhile if I'm playing as Everton and Huesca barring major upset my team cannot beat every team in the world. What's happening is I'm playing like Liverpool as Huesca and Everton and I'm beating every single team like I'm Liverpool and that is the exact point. You're not understanding that my team should not be able to have the same amount of success as Liverpool if I am not playing as Liverpool even though I am playing their playstyle. That in turn takes me to scout for players to get better players until I have the players to perform as well as Liverpool. Huesca and Everton should not be able to get the results of Liverpool even if they play like them. You clearly do not understand this point and me explaining it to you for the last couple of hours clearly hasn't helped so really there is no point in me trying to convince you. All I will say is have a good night and good luck in FM21 and I hope you have fun.

In a nutshell, you shouldn’t be able to take a bad player/team and ask them to play like a good player/team, and the game let’s you do it. Every season.

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Is the preset gegenpress tactic an exploit? If it is, why is it included as one the preset tactics?

I understand that there will always be tactics that exploit the ME but sensible tactics with aggressive pressing should not be so powerful that they work with ANY team and considered an exploit.

And I think holidaying whole seasons does not really prove anything, actually playing the matches in ME really shows you how powerful these aggressive tactics are.

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Gerade eben schrieb swippy:

Is the preset gegenpress tactic an exploit? If it is, why is it included as one the preset tactics?

I understand that there will always be tactics that exploit the ME but sensible tactics with aggressive pressing should not be so powerful that they work with ANY team and considered an exploit.

And I think holidaying whole seasons does not really prove anything, actually playing the matches in ME really shows you how powerful these aggressive tactics are.

I set the detail level to full so it is the match engine

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41 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

The issue here is that the game should punish unrealistic play - Huesca would get torn apart trying to use an attacking tactic for 38 games in La Liga. The game should reflect this.

I doubt the AI, which is lines of code, not some half sentient super computer, understands how to react to someone playing about 8 folk in attack.

It likely won't until technology advances either.

Edited by RandomGuy.
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7 hours ago, dominoes012 said:

Yeah I think there is something missing here either he's not understanding me or vice versa. If you look at his 4 points like his last point just means that I should accept that if I play like Liverpool and I get results as Liverpool even though I'm playing as another team than I should accept the results? Am I missing something here because that is how I interpreted that.

He’s right. It works in real life as well. If my wife gives me a tangerine for a snack, but I want a biscuit, I ask the tangerine to look like a biscuit and taste like a biscuit and it does.

Have you been playing life wrong this whole time?

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Gerade eben schrieb Dagenham_Dave:

I've argued this since the introduction of the gegenpress into FM - It has to be countered with players getting knackered or injured if managers persist on playing that style for 90 mins match on match. That's the biggest failing. Of course that approach is going to win games without that risk involved. Every team in the world would play this way constantly if there was no fear of burnout. 

If SI do this, they will be absolutely flooded with 'too many injuries' complaints, which has already, frustratingly, led them to reduce the injuries in game to 80% of real life, The sooner they put this back to close too 100% the better. These types of aggressive tactics need to have a consequence, otherwise there's no real strategy involved. 

my words...

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6 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

If you find the game too easy, youve just learned what buttons to click, thats it.

You happen to be good at button clicking. So yeah, brilliant. Well done.

As all games are button clicking, this is quite a worrying conclusion.

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2 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Nothing constructive to this conversation, mate.

Basically someone has gone on holiday after setting up an unrealistically attacking tactic and done well a couple of times.  They are then saying that this proves the entire game is "easy" and needs to be made harder instead of just posting evidence of what is clearly an overpowered tactic in the bugs forum.

It takes away from the entire argument/discussion that has been happening for the last few days.

It's like someone sitting in a near inaccessible/buggy area of a map on an FPS game, killing everyone, then demanding that they still be allowed to sit there but everyone else should be harder to kill.

:rolleyes:

That is a tiny subset of the conversation.

Most of the conversation is people using sensible tactics, nothing gamey, and winning way too easy. With any team.

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2 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Nothing constructive to this conversation, mate.

Basically someone has gone on holiday after setting up an unrealistically attacking tactic and done well a couple of times.  They are then saying that this proves the entire game is "easy" and needs to be made harder instead of just posting evidence of what is clearly an overpowered tactic in the bugs forum.

It takes away from the entire argument/discussion that has been happening for the last few days.

It's like someone sitting in a near inaccessible/buggy area of a map on an FPS game, killing everyone, then demanding that they still be allowed to sit there but everyone else should be harder to kill.

:rolleyes:

Do you work from Donald Trump, just picking one extreme point out of 50 normal ones to make your point?

If you take from all this that the game isn’t really easy, everyone that says so is exploiting something, and you’re not bad at it, then we’ll done you.

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1 hour ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

So we've gone from being able to just use any tactic and win easy at the start of this thread to actually only really using a gegenpress style with plenty of PI's?

The plot thickens.

The conclusions being drawn from one person's tactics thicken.

I play 433 Positive/Balanced with one up top on S duty and two wide men, one S and one A, and I overperform every season. Many of us do. 

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156 people voted for this option. It's not like we're talking about 3 or 4 people here. Why do some here need to defend the current state so aggressively? This is not an attack on you, although it does say a lot that you can get offended by such a thread. 

We all love this game. I've been playing since 97/98 and I just want it to be as a good as it can be. I feel like we're really close now, but we just need a stronger AI. These same people programmed the AI to do all the great things it's doing already. Surely there is a way to get them to be even more efficient, be it through better team building, a more aggressive transfer market approach and more aggressive tactics in the ME. 

I play a regular 4-2-3-1 deep btw, with a pressing forward on top, an AP at CAM, an IF and IW on either side. BWD(D) and Segundo Volante and 2 wingbacks on support. No counter press, no extremely high line, no more urgent pressing etc. 

Edited by Piksi#10
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One thing I've noticed when I use an game winning intensive pressing/attacking tactic is that even if the cute heart emojis are down to red, my players keep running at full pace like there's no tomorrow. That does not seem right?

Worth mention I've only tried the English L1 so far.

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Just now, dannysheard said:

The conclusions being drawn from one person's tactics thicken.

I play 433 Positive/Balanced with one up top on S duty and two wide men, one S and one A, and I overperform every season. Many of us do. 

And have you uploaded any of these saves to the bugs forum for investigation? You make a lot of noise about the game being too easy without actually being proactive in getting it looked into. 

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Its literally almost exactly a tactic that's been proven to exploit the match engine by those who dig into the AI to figure these things out, coincidentally, I'm sure, also used on Newcastle. 

Best-FM-2021-Tactics-Knaps-BEOWULF-4-4-2-formation.png.2caa012b0cb08979e8af3c419d44fa09.png

You can download it online.

Search for "knaps 4-4-2" on Google and you'll find it.

The same boy who created this one has created a tactic that's exploited the ME for the past 3/4 years, again, something you'll see if you search the above term.

People can make their own assumptions about why someone is using a proven, long term, downloadable tactic to exploit the ME, and then claiming the game is "easy".

In fairness, I think most of us would consider that tactic very gamey. It proves the ME is very poor in some ways, but I’d never use anything like it...

...unless I was losing with 15 minutes to go and maybe I would. And in real life, I’m probably more likely be countered. On FM, I’d probably score.

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1 minute ago, dannysheard said:

The conclusions being drawn from one person's tactics thicken.

I play 433 Positive/Balanced with one up top on S duty and two wide men, one S and one A, and I overperform every season. Many of us do. 

You play only with Liverpool. A team that has literally just won the league with record points. You also said in your other thread that you don't do manual training because you're tempted to rest everyone and game the system by being in better condition than the opposition.

If you have saves where you think it's too easy, upload them. Everyone else should too. Then it won't be too easy anymore.

How hard is it?

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1 hour ago, Junkhead said:

You don't know, but the developer does if the save is uploaded. If you think it is unrealistically easy, upload the save. If you think you've just had a good season, don't.

I’d say every season I’ve played in the last 5+ FMs have been too easy. And this one is even easier.

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Just now, dannysheard said:

That is a tiny subset of the conversation.

Most of the conversation is people using sensible tactics, nothing gamey, and winning way too easy. With any team.

This is true, even though many people seem to try and turn the conversation into something else. Tactical exploits are of course possible and all of them should be inspected but to be fair, it's not easy to get rid of all of them and there will always be some kind of exploits within the tactical side, ME etc.

But heck, it's wrong to say that even a considerable amount of people who say that the game is too easy, are using any kind of exploits. I for example don't use same tactics with each team that I manage but instead create style of play suitable for the current squad. I do have my favorite formations but those are usually 4-1-4-1 and 4-4-1-1, sometimes even a 4-1-2-2-1. And the general mentality that I most often use is either a balanced one or something related to counter attacking or even defensive. 

More often than not, I'm not doing that crazily well in singular matches but in a long run most definitely yes. Usually this "ruins" my save game after season one, when I am able to take way too long leaps forward. In my opinion, there are real issues on how the AI does things during the matches (look at the AI Ancelotti or Rodgers for example) but the biggest issues can be found on the squad building side, where we have been given way too powerful tools against an AI that simply doesn't compete against us at all.

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Gerade eben schrieb Piksi#10:

156 people voted for this option. It's not like we're talking about 3 or 4 people here. Why do some here need to defend the current state so aggressively? This is not an attack on you, although it does say a lot that you can get offended by such a thread. 

We all love this game. I've been playing since 97/98 and I just want it to be as a good as it can be. I feel like we're really close now, but we just need a stronger AI. These same people programmed the AI to do all the great things it's doing already. Surely there is a way to get them to be even more efficient, be it through better team building, a more aggressive transfer market approach and more aggressive tactics in the ME. 

I personally don't get offended at all. I just stand my ground because I think that I understand the mechanics quite good and how it's influenced. I try to make these arguments clear to the ones that just argue that the game is too easy. I am open to change my mind at any time, just haven't seen too much arguements for it till now:lol:

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