defensive mentality

[Red Horizon]

Could you win a title on FM only playing defensive mentality the whole season? similar to Herrera's Inter Milan did with Catenaccio?

 

I have my doubts.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

You can win titles playing a defensive brand of football, absolutely.

Playing exclusively on the defensive mentality on the other hand? I don't see it. You would have to get pretty aggressive with roles & duties to get some form of attack going and at that point, you're probably not a defensive team anyway.

[herne79]

Yes and often do.

But using the Defensive Mentality is not the same thing as playing defensively (if that's what you're asking), nor is it the same thing as catenaccio.  (Also worth noting that Herrera himself said catenaccio was often misunderstood and could actually be quite attacking).

Mentality is your starting point, your broad framework.  The rest of your system and your players determines how it all comes together and the style of football you play.  For example in one of my saves in FM20 my Board wanted me to play attractive and attacking football.  I used the Defensive mentality pretty much the whole season and passed their desired vision with flying colours, scoring loads of goals and conceding few.

So yes you absolutely can use the Defensive Mentality and be successful.  But looking at Mentality (or indeed any tactical aspect) in isolation tends not to be the best idea.  Everything needs to work in harmony with each other - Mentality, TIs, PIs and the players themselves.

Now, can you use the Defensive Mentality, play defensive football and still be successful?  Again, yes you can and it again comes down to your choice of tactical settings, in combination with your players, to help you define your chosen style of play.  In my experience the issue I mainly see with people trying to play in this manner is that they over compensate.  They set the Defensive Mentality and then add on unnecessary additional TIs/PIs.  The Def Mentality already sets a very low defensive line and low line of engagement.  It tells your players to ease off their tackles and to avoid pressing.  Yet typically you'll see people lowering the def line and LoE even further.  They set less and less pressing.  They become too passive in defence and so end up getting battered.

So by all means use the Defensive Mentality.  Just be aware that it (and all other Mentalities) are your starting point and all tactical settings need to combine to form a cohesive whole.

[beverage1982]

26 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Yes and often do.

But using the Defensive Mentality is not the same thing as playing defensively (if that's what you're asking), nor is it the same thing as catenaccio.  (Also worth noting that Herrera himself said catenaccio was often misunderstood and could actually be quite attacking).

Mentality is your starting point, your broad framework.  The rest of your system and your players determines how it all comes together and the style of football you play.  For example in one of my saves in FM20 my Board wanted me to play attractive and attacking football.  I used the Defensive mentality pretty much the whole season and passed their desired vision with flying colours, scoring loads of goals and conceding few.

So yes you absolutely can use the Defensive Mentality and be successful.  But looking at Mentality (or indeed any tactical aspect) in isolation tends not to be the best idea.  Everything needs to work in harmony with each other - Mentality, TIs, PIs and the players themselves.

Now, can you use the Defensive Mentality, play defensive football and still be successful?  Again, yes you can and it again comes down to your choice of tactical settings, in combination with your players, to help you define your chosen style of play.  In my experience the issue I mainly see with people trying to play in this manner is that they over compensate.  They set the Defensive Mentality and then add on unnecessary additional TIs/PIs.  The Def Mentality already sets a very low defensive line and low line of engagement.  It tells your players to ease off their tackles and to avoid pressing.  Yet typically you'll see people lowering the def line and LoE even further.  They set less and less pressing.  They become too passive in defence and so end up getting battered.

So by all means use the Defensive Mentality.  Just be aware that it (and all other Mentalities) are your starting point and all tactical settings need to combine to form a cohesive whole.

Hey Herne - would love to see what TI's you used to make Defensive more entertaining. I agree fully that it can be done, but like your point about overcompensating on the defensive side of thigns I often find myself overcompensating on the attacking side to the point I may just have well gone higher on the mentality scale

 

[facman]

 

above is a link to a post in one of Herne’s threads from back in 2015/16, in which I detailed an analysis of a defensive 4-4-2 that I developed and used successfully with Leeds for 5 seasons.

It might help with understanding the roles, duties, TIs and PIs I used to allow players to be creative within a low-risk defensive mentality system.