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Guide how to set up an optimal database for a balanced savegame and ways to increase realism (updated 21. March 21) *Links Added to davie77's megapack*


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Gerade eben schrieb Fritz13:

Thanks for this @Daveincid

where would a single playable league with the 10-15 top flight view-only leagues fit into the above?

specifically for the transfer activity 

same as the first example of only a single playable league?

If you load the players for 10-15 top leagues you should see some transfer activity. My experience in fm20 was, that with your suggested setup, later ingame teams which are in a view-only-league will have much more homegrown players in their squad than usual because of lack of transfer activity.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

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8 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

If you load the players for 10-15 top leagues you should see some transfer activity. My experience in fm20 was, that with your suggested setup, later ingame teams which are in a view-only-league will have much more homegrown players in their squad than usual because of lack of transfer activity.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

Understood - cheers

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Gerade eben schrieb obasa_G:

Thank you for posting this @Daveincid.

I would like to ask a question.

Is a set up of one nation playable (England) with players from top clubs and top divisions loaded from all continents good?

you are welcome!

 

good is always relative, in the end it depends on what you plan for your save. IMO from the player count it's very good, this is how I play when I want it a bit faster. I would also load at least the bigger leagues as view only. There will be no significant difference in terms of speed. 

 

Cheers

Daveincid

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A really good guide but can I make a suggestion regarding a middle point between the two below setups

Loading top 5 leagues and top 2 in South America playable and top 20 as view only with players loaded from the top 20 nations with the advanced-db option: 

Loading top 5 leagues and top 2 in South America playable and all others as view only with players loaded from all nations with the advanced-db option (ca 194k players):

Loading top 5 leagues and top 2 in SA playable and in terms of the advanced database, rather than loading everything from all nations, loading only players with national or continental rep from each continent - that gives you a nice midway level (r. 50k players) with near all international teams filled and regens for every region whilst remaining at a low enough level for lower spec computers to not slow down too much.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb LC15:

A really good guide but can I make a suggestion regarding a middle point between the two below setups

Loading top 5 leagues and top 2 in South America playable and top 20 as view only with players loaded from the top 20 nations with the advanced-db option: 

Loading top 5 leagues and top 2 in South America playable and all others as view only with players loaded from all nations with the advanced-db option (ca 194k players):

Loading top 5 leagues and top 2 in SA playable and in terms of the advanced database, rather than loading everything from all nations, loading only players with national or continental rep from each continent - that gives you a nice midway level (r. 50k players) with near all international teams filled and regens for every region whilst remaining at a low enough level for lower spec computers to not slow down too much.

Thank you for your input. Of course this can be an option aswell. In the end you can customize it exaclty how you want it. I am just not a fan of loading players according to their reputation. Some clubs in a league will have benefits vs their direct rivals, so the risk of inbalance in a nation itself or in a league is much higher because some teams will have real players and some won't.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

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8 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Thank you for your input. Of course this can be an option aswell. In the end you can customize it exaclty how you want it. I am just not a fan of loading players according to their reputation. Some clubs in a league will have benefits vs their direct rivals, so the risk of inbalance in a nation itself or in a league is much higher because some teams will have real players and some won't.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

That's a fair point, I haven't come across it myself but can imagine in some leagues where there is wide gaps between teams it could lead to such an imbalance.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb LC15:

That's a fair point, I haven't come across it myself but can imagine in some leagues where there is wide gaps between teams it could lead to such an imbalance.

Exactly. This is also down to how the reputation of a player is set in a nation. So you might miss a young wonderkid who didn't made it to national reputation yet. I once made this mistake in a earlier version....won't happen again:lol:

Edited by Daveincid
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Good post. 

On my i5 MacBook with 8gb, in FM20 i usually load First division of top 5 + brazilian + Holland + south Africa + the 2 hungarian division (where i play)  and a 15 view only and a custom db with all player from Africa and the First division player from other continent.

 

But it's seems to me that the youth intake in other clubs are too low,  mostly in the african team (from where, as i said, i load all players)

What Is the best way to increase that? 

 

 

 

 

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vor 16 Minuten schrieb FlorianAlbert9:

Good post. 

On my i5 MacBook with 8gb, in FM20 i usually load First division of top 5 + brazilian + Holland + south Africa + the 2 hungarian division (where i play)  and a 15 view only and a custom db with all player from Africa and the First division player from other continent.

 

But it's seems to me that the youth intake in other clubs are too low,  mostly in the african team (from where, as i said, i load all players)

What Is the best way to increase that? 

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

So you loaded all african players, from angola to zambia?  Can you define "low" to me? And which other teams do you mean exacty?

 

Cheers

 

Daveincid

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11 minuti fa, Daveincid ha scritto:

Thanks!

So you loaded all african players, from angola to zambia?  Can you define "low" to me? And which other teams do you mean exacty?

 

Cheers

 

Daveincid

All continent based with custom options. So i think i get all african players (of the original db). 

Looking a the african team, the very top teams barely get 8  (maybe less i don't Remember now) players at max, while the other good ones, 3 (maybe less) at best. 

A little better from Europe or south american teams. But i would prefer to see more younger like the ones i get. 

Edited by FlorianAlbert9
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vor 8 Minuten schrieb FlorianAlbert9:

All continent based with custom options. So i think i get all african players (of the original db). 

Looking a the african team, the very top teams barely get 8 players at max, while the other good ones, 3 at best. 

A little better from Europe or south american teams. But i would prefer to see more younger like the ones i get. 

this is actually perfect as it should be. Just see it in a general way. A player has an average career-length of maybe 14 years. a squad has around 30 players. So 30/14 is around 2. To keep the whole db balanced, every year there will be 2 players in avg. that retire and 2 quality newgens produced to replace them.  Just imagine what would happen if you get 10 newgens a year in every team? after 10 years ingame there will be way too many players and after 15 years every cpu is going to tell you good bye:D

 

Edited by Daveincid
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I only have the English and Scottish leagues loaded and i add all international players from all continents with a large database. It doesnt give that many players so still runs fast, i didnt play FM20 but on FM19 all nations would get newgen players and all top teams have full squads and there is lots of transfer activity. The only thing missing is seeing other nations league tables.

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48 minuti fa, Daveincid ha scritto:

this is actually perfect as it should be. Just see it in a general way. A player has an average career-length of maybe 14 years. a squad has around 30 players. So 30/14 is around 2. To keep the whole db balanced, every year there will be 2 players in avg. that retire and 2 quality newgens produced to replace them.  Just imagine what would happen if you get 10 newgens a year in every team? after 10 years ingame there will be way too many players and after 15 years every cpu is going to tell you good bye:D

 

Yes, that's right, but i prefer rather to see more youngs promoted and more of them retiring. 

Ex: instead of 3 youngs promoted, i'd love 8 with 5 that retiring after 2 years. 

That 'cause with more youngs comes, it will be harder find the good ones. (And harder Is a good thing)

Said that, if i create (or download) a user's custom db with a lot more of african players than the original ones, then i will get more youngs, right? 

Edited by FlorianAlbert9
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vor 12 Minuten schrieb Weed07:

I only have the English and Scottish leagues loaded and i add all international players from all continents with a large database. It doesnt give that many players so still runs fast, i didnt play FM20 but on FM19 all nations would get newgen players and all top teams have full squads and there is lots of transfer activity. The only thing missing is seeing other nations league tables.

yes, this is mostly what I wrote in the guide. I  don't agree about the transfer activity in leagues which aren't loaded. They are much less IMO. 

There are more things missing than the leagues tables. In a unloaded or view only league, there will often after some ingame years no head coach and other staff members at all. 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb FlorianAlbert9:

Yes, that's right, but i prefer rather to see more youngs promoted and more of them retiring. 

Ex: instead of 3 youngs promoted, i'd love 8 with 5 that retiring after 2 years. 

That 'cause with more youngs comes, it will be harder find the good ones. (And harder Is a good thing)

Said that, if i create (or download) a user's custom db with a lot more of african players than the original ones, then i will get more youngs, right? 

The youth intake itself already does this mechanics for you. Often people complain, that most of their newgens are rubbish. They are actually the 5 of your example who retire. It's not realistic if young players are being professionals and after 2 years they retire.

 

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Gerade eben schrieb saihtam:

I think it is possible to save choices so maybe there is possibility to share these files for best DB combinations with playable and view only.

What I try to share with this guide are only rough guidelines. The goal is, that people understand how the db works and how they can set it by themselfes best for their individual playing-style. This is impossible to create for every individual. Some people only want the top league, some want it down to level 6. 

Cheers

Daveincid

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5 minuti fa, Daveincid ha scritto:

The youth intake itself already does this mechanics for you. Often people complain, that most of their newgens are rubbish. They are actually the 5 of your example who retire. It's not realistic if young players are being professionals and after 2 years they retire.

 

Well, but with my intake that Is what happenend. 

At least 2/3 youngs every year left the football 'cause i don't give them a pro contract.

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Gerade eben schrieb FlorianAlbert9:

Well, but with my intake that Is what happenend. 

At least 2/3 youngs every year left the football 'cause i don't give them a pro contract.

and that's exactly what I said. only 2-4 per year should have the potencial to get a pro contract. 

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1 minuto fa, Daveincid ha scritto:

and that's exactly what I said. only 2-4 per year should have the potencial to get a pro contract. 

:D

maybe I haven't explained myself.

Example

I get 12 young. 

I signed 5 with a pro contract. 

2 with a young contract 

I left free the others, maybe 2 signed forca poor club, the other 3 retired

While:

Kano Pillars (nigerian club) get 4 players.

 

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I notice a big difference between playable and view-only leagues. When playing a European save, I prefer to add more playable leagues rather than just more players. The advantages to more playable leagues is that you get more balanced transfer activity, more interesting scouting decisions, more loan out options, and better competitiveness in European competitions. Loading a bunch of extra players without playable leagues can lead to a really difficult selling environment.

The leagues I always load as playable in FM when managing in England are:

  • ENG (top 4-5 divisions)
  • GER (top 2 divisions)
  • ESP (top 2 divisions)
  • ITA (top 2 divisions)
  • FRA (top 2 divisions)
  • NED
  • POR
  • RUS
  • BEL
  • SCO
  • SUI

The other leagues I pick and choose from are:

  • DEN -- usually yes
  • NOR -- usually yes
  • GRE -- usually yes
  • AUT -- usually yes
  • SWE
  • CZE
  • ROU
  • UKR
  • POL
  • BRZ/ARG are fun to add for talent reasons, but I don't really miss them when they're not playable

I then also load the current international and continental rep players from most of South America, USA, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, a few of the bigger African countries, and the rest of Europe.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb FlorianAlbert9:

:D

maybe I haven't explained myself.

Example

I get 12 young. 

I signed 5 with a pro contract. 

2 with a young contract 

I left free the others, maybe 2 signed forca poor club, the other 3 retired

While:

Kano Pillars (nigerian club) get 4 players.

 

I hope we understand the others logic:lol:

So in your example you have overall a pretty decent intake. These 4 players from Kano Pillars are the best ones and are the equivalent to the 5 you signed.  They had in the background also more youth players which just weren't good enough. The AI makes this decision.  

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Overmars:

I notice a big difference between playable and view-only leagues. When playing a European save, I prefer to add more playable leagues rather than just more players. The advantages to more playable leagues is that you get more balanced transfer activity, more interesting scouting decisions, more loan out options, and better competitiveness in European competitions. Loading a bunch of extra players without playable leagues can lead to a really difficult selling environment.

The leagues I always load as playable in FM when managing in England are:

  • ENG (top 4-5 divisions)
  • GER (top 2 divisions)
  • ESP (top 2 divisions)
  • ITA (top 2 divisions)
  • FRA (top 2 divisions)
  • NED
  • POR
  • RUS
  • BEL
  • SCO
  • SUI

The other leagues I pick and choose from are:

  • DEN -- usually yes
  • NOR -- usually yes
  • GRE -- usually yes
  • AUT -- usually yes
  • SWE
  • CZE
  • ROU
  • UKR
  • POL
  • BRZ/ARG are fun to add for talent reasons, but I don't really miss them when they're not playable

I then also load the current international and continental rep players from most of South America, USA, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, a few of the bigger African countries, and the rest of Europe.

100% correct as written in the guide:) Or do you think something is described differently?

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4 minuti fa, Daveincid ha scritto:

I hope we understand the others logic:lol:

So in your example you have overall a pretty decent intake. These 4 players from Kano Pillars are the best ones and are the equivalent to the 5 you signed.  They had in the background also more youth players which just weren't good enough. The AI makes this decision.  

I understand that. And that Is the problem! :D

'Cause it is easier find a good player in a group of 4 than in a group of 12. 

You have to scout less and you have less % of mistake the player's value. 

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Gerade eben schrieb FlorianAlbert9:

I understand that. And that Is the problem! :D

'Cause it is easier find a good player in a group of 4 than in a group of 12. 

You have to scout less and you have less % of mistake the player's value. 

true story:lol: 

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb mhaffy:

Do you run small database or large database, as small database and fewer players also seems to improve transfer market.

 

Edited by Daveincid
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2 minutes ago, mhaffy said:

Overmars - Do you run small database or large database, as small database and fewer players for playable leagues also seems to improve transfer market.

Medium but I guess the true option picked is "Custom" since I add those extra international players.

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14 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

100% correct as written in the guide:) Or do you think something is described differently?

I think your guide jumps from a relatively small amount of playable leagues (7) to all leagues loaded. There is a reasonable middle ground of around 15-20 playable leagues that hits the sweet spot for me.

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2 minutes ago, Overmars said:

Medium but I guess the true option picked is "Custom" since I add those extra international players.

Thanks. I never add extra players - circa 13 nations, 28 playable leagues and large database usually with circa 66k players at start. Planning on going to small database this year with c 60k players at start to hopefully improve transfer market and chances of actually selling my surplus players...

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Overmars:

I think your guide jumps from a relatively small amount of playable leagues (7) to all leagues loaded. There is a reasonable middle ground of around 15-20 playable leagues that hits the sweet spot for me.

you are right, I will add the sweet spot option. 

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10 hours ago, Overmars said:

I notice a big difference between playable and view-only leagues. When playing a European save, I prefer to add more playable leagues rather than just more players. The advantages to more playable leagues is that you get more balanced transfer activity, more interesting scouting decisions, more loan out options, and better competitiveness in European competitions. Loading a bunch of extra players without playable leagues can lead to a really difficult selling environment.

The leagues I always load as playable in FM when managing in England are:

  • ENG (top 4-5 divisions)
  • GER (top 2 divisions)
  • ESP (top 2 divisions)
  • ITA (top 2 divisions)
  • FRA (top 2 divisions)
  • NED
  • POR
  • RUS
  • BEL
  • SCO
  • SUI

The other leagues I pick and choose from are:

  • DEN -- usually yes
  • NOR -- usually yes
  • GRE -- usually yes
  • AUT -- usually yes
  • SWE
  • CZE
  • ROU
  • UKR
  • POL
  • BRZ/ARG are fun to add for talent reasons, but I don't really miss them when they're not playable

I then also load the current international and continental rep players from most of South America, USA, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, a few of the bigger African countries, and the rest of Europe.

I do bretty mych the same. I load up to 100-120k players. I sometimes add custom specific nationality also to the mix. But yeah, most EU contries 1-2 leagues as playable and then others as view. Maybe can push harder this year as the optimization is very well done and would benefit it journyman save.

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19 hours ago, Daveincid said:

- Carregando as 20 principais nações jogáveis, todas as outras apenas para visualização, jogos internacionais, jogos nacionais e os jogos em sua liga simulados em todos os detalhes, com a opção de banco de dados avançada para todos os jogadores da primeira divisão e de reputação nacional

20 nations, but how many leagues? 
Another thing, if I'm not asking for much, would you like to post a list of recommended nations for those who play in Europe?

P.S: Sorry for the English, I'm Brazilian.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb ivancm:

20 nations, but how many leagues? 
Another thing, if I'm not asking for much, would you like to post a list of recommended nations for those who play in Europe?

P.S: Sorry for the English, I'm Brazilian.

sem problemas!

I recommend at least 2 leagues in every nation. top 5 nations maybe 3 leagues.

With 20 nations playable I would say: England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal, Russia, Netherlands, Ukraine, Turkey, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland. From South America Brazil and Argentina, from North America Mexico and USA. If you still have room left I would add Croatia, Serbia, Poland, Romania, South Africa and South Korea.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

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2 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

sem problemas!

Eu recomendo pelo menos 2 ligas em cada nação. 5 principais nações, talvez 3 ligas.

Com 20 nações jogáveis, eu diria: Inglaterra, Espanha, Alemanha, Itália, França, Portugal, Rússia, Holanda, Ucrânia, Turquia, Bélgica, Noruega, Suécia, Dinamarca, Áustria, Suíça. Da América do Sul Brasil e Argentina, da América do Norte México e EUA. Se você ainda tiver espaço, eu adicionaria Croácia, Sérvia, Polônia, Romênia, África do Sul e Coréia do Sul.

 

Felicidades

Daveincid

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! :applause:

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Daveincid - using your below game setup what is your estimated game speed in stars and is it still quick enough? I don't know how much notice to take of the stars. I have an ok PC (i5-9400 2.9GHz(6 CPUs), 8GB RAM)

but my estimated speed is only 2 stars with the below setup!

In real terms, how slow would you expect this to be versus my usual setup which is just England and Spanish top leagues, with estimated speed at 5 stars?

For example, if a season normally takes me 24hours of my time, is it only going to add on an hour or so, or would it double?!

 

Thanks for this very useful thread.

 I recommend at least 2 leagues in every nation. top 5 nations maybe 3 leagues.

With 20 nations playable I would say: England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal, Russia, Netherlands, Ukraine, Turkey, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland. From South America Brazil and Argentina, from North America Mexico and USA. If you still have room left I would add Croatia, Serbia, Poland, Romania, South Africa and South Korea.

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb SineadOConnor:

Daveincid - using your below game setup what is your estimated game speed in stars and is it still quick enough? I don't know how much notice to take of the stars. I have an ok PC (i5-9400 2.9GHz(6 CPUs), 8GB RAM)

but my estimated speed is only 2 stars with the below setup!

In real terms, how slow would you expect this to be versus my usual setup which is just England and Spanish top leagues, with estimated speed at 5 stars?

For example, if a season normally takes me 24hours of my time, is it only going to add on an hour or so, or would it double?!

 

Thanks for this very useful thread.

 I recommend at least 2 leagues in every nation. top 5 nations maybe 3 leagues.

With 20 nations playable I would say: England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal, Russia, Netherlands, Ukraine, Turkey, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland. From South America Brazil and Argentina, from North America Mexico and USA. If you still have room left I would add Croatia, Serbia, Poland, Romania, South Africa and South Korea.

Hi SineadOConnor

It is quite difficult to say it in hours.  Because I guess this 24 hours is not only raw processing, it's how you play the game. The game has a minimum setup which takes some processing-time. with every league loaded (especially playable and with full details).  Processing will need significantly more time than your usual setup. But for the total time for a season I think it won't be more than 36 hours. You can compare your cpu in this thread to get a bit of a feeling about the processing-time.:)

Cheers

Daveincid

 

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb wazzaflow10:

I want to clear up any confusion - is this assumption still accurate?

 

 

yes, I'm pretty sure there was some opimisation under the hood all theese years, but it haven't changed much.

Cheers

Daveincid

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On 15/11/2020 at 21:23, mhaffy said:

Thanks. I never add extra players - circa 13 nations, 28 playable leagues and large database usually with circa 66k players at start. Planning on going to small database this year with c 60k players at start to hopefully improve transfer market and chances of actually selling my surplus players...

Have been reviewing nations and playable leagues that I run for FM21 beta have settled on 17 nations (up from usual 13), 30 playable leagues (up from usual 28) and small database rather than the large database that I usually choose. This gives me circa 65k players at the start of the FM21 beta versus usual setup that gives c66k players. Game speed is shown as 2 stars, same as usual setup, but i am hoping that the optimisation and speed improvements referred to in a tweet from Miles will mean that my game speed will actually be better than usual despite still showing 2 stars.

Edited by mhaffy
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb mhaffy:

Have been reviewing nations and playable leagues that I have and for beta have settled on 17 nations (up from usual 13), 30 playable leagues (up from usual 28) and small database rather than the large database that I usually choose. This gives me circa 65k players at the start of the FM21 beta versus usual setup that gives c66k players. Game speed is shown as 2 stars, same as usual setup, but i am hoping that the optimisation and speed improvements referred to in a tweet from Miles will mean that my game speed will actually be better than usual despite still showing 2 stars.

Sounds solid. I would just think about adding players via the advanced db aswell. It won't slow down your game that much. :) Generally I won't give too much about the star rating at all. Just start a save and test it if you feel comfortable with the speed. The increase from speed from fm20 to fm21 is in my tests even higher than miles tweeted.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

 

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17 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Sounds solid. I would just think about adding players via the advanced db aswell. It won't slow down your game that much. :) Generally I won't give too much about the star rating at all. Just start a save and test it if you feel comfortable with the speed. The increase from speed from fm20 to fm21 is in my tests even higher than miles tweeted.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

 

Thanks - would be great if actual game speed (not save speed) is greater than the circa 14% that I believe Miles tweeted. Two stars is what I usually play with and find fine so any improvement would be a bonus. Not planning on adding any extra players via the advanced database as concerned of potential impact on transfer market and my ability to offload unwanted players.

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vor 39 Minuten schrieb Double0Seven:

Hey for the sweet spot setting, could you show me how it looks like in your setup screen? 

Is it supposed to look something like this? 

JOb3IVJ.png

I just updated the guide with screenshots. I would add the continenal club competitions for Europe too.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

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  • Daveincid changed the title to Guide how to set up an optimal database for a balanced savegame and ways to increase realism (updated 21. March 21) *Links Added to davie77's megapack*

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