FM and apple silicon

[Harper]

15 hours ago, MoosAlbo said:

So what are you looking for in this topic? I am curious.

Smurf is the guru when it comes to helping people get the most for their money when it comes to buying/updating a machine that will fit their FM needs. He'll never stump for a 15" Mac, but knowing how the M1 chips handle FM would inform his advice if someone was asking about a Mac and wanting to stay in the Apple-sphere.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Harper
Clarified

[WriedtDK]

So, is the MB Pro good enough with the 8GB Ram. 
 

It’s only for football manager 2021, surfing, browsing and Discord. Or should i wait for 16GB model just because? 
 

i Can save some money in another store right now and get for about 1469 us dollars for the 8GB ram model. 

[WriedtDK]

4 minutes ago, WriedtDK said:

So, is the MB Pro good enough with the 8GB Ram. 
 

It’s only for football manager 2021, surfing, browsing and Discord. Or should i wait for 16GB model just because? 
 

i Can save some money in another store right now and get for about 1469 us dollars for the 8GB ram model. 

Oh, so expensive here than us 🙃🙃

[MoosAlbo]

12 minutes ago, WriedtDK said:

So, is the MB Pro good enough with the 8GB Ram. 
 

It’s only for football manager 2021, surfing, browsing and Discord. Or should i wait for 16GB model just because? 
 

i Can save some money in another store right now and get for about 1469 us dollars for the 8GB ram model. 

I think 8gb is enough if you are not going to use the MacBook for tasks that need a lot of memory. Virtual machines, video editing, coding etc.

[andyinuk]

On 12/12/2020 at 17:07, анонимный said:

Good thing about Macs (and Apple products in general) - even though expensive, is that they tend to hold their value over time. Specifically if comparing MacBooks to PC laptops. And if you can't be bothered selling your Apple product they now offer a trade-in service if you ever want to upgrade to a newer model. 

Yeah especially if you keep the box too. 

[WriedtDK]

4 minutes ago, MoosAlbo said:

I think 8gb is enough if you are not going to use the MacBook for tasks that need a lot of memory. Virtual machines, video editing, coding etc.

Thank you 😊

[MoosAlbo]

8 hours ago, Harper said:

Smurf is the guru when it comes to helping people get the most for their money when it comes to buying/updating a machine that will fit their FM needs. He'll never stump for a Mac, but knowing how the M1 chips handle FM would inform his advice if someone was asking about a Mac and wanting to stay in the Apple-sphere.

Ok well his advise based on his own (situation) as a power user doesn’t apply to most of the people who use laptops. 
 

I have a MacBook Air M1 for personal use and a Lenovo 17 inch i7, 64gb ram, 6GB Graphics card for work.

The MacBook Air smokes it in performance and battery.

I can play FM for 2 hours on the Lenovo while on the MacBook Air I can play 9 hours.

the Lenovo costs €2500

[kevhamster]

37 minutes ago, MoosAlbo said:

Ok well his advise based on his own (situation) as a power user doesn’t apply to most of the people who use laptops. 
 

I have a MacBook Air M1 for personal use and a Lenovo 17 inch i7, 64gb ram, 6GB Graphics card for work.

The MacBook Air smokes it in performance and battery.

I can play FM for 2 hours on the Lenovo while on the MacBook Air I can play 9 hours.

the Lenovo costs €2500

The idea of the thread is to find a solution that will work based on the person's budget.  There are many people who really don't know what to go for, which is evident by some of the laptops people say they are looking at.

We both look to tailor advice based on what the person's budget is and what their intended use for the computer is.  

Given how many people have come back really happy and grateful for the advice and delighted with the end result, I'd argue that Smurf's own status as a "power user" as you put it doesn't come into it at all, and it's simply a case of a person who knows what he's talking about helping others who weren't at all sure what to go for.

Edit: To add, gaming laptops are never going to have terrific battery life when played unplugged.  The kind of power the CPU and graphics card require will likely eat a battery's power quite a lot.  As you've alluded to, the new Macbooks are excellent for FM - they will likely not be quite as good for modern AAA games, due to the graphical demands of these titles.  

Edited December 14, 2020 by kevhamster

[craiigman]

This thread went a little wayward, not what I was expecting to see. I know people get purchase bias but some of the responses have been a little below the belt. I am an Apple user, iPhone, MacBook, iPad - I'm all in. I've had Window's laptops and a gaming PC before, but I just prefer MacOS for every day use. However Smurf is not lying when he says you can spend less and get more when it comes to Apple products. The M1 chips has closed that gap quite a bit, especially in the 13" Laptop space (as he has said himself), but their other range is still very expensive and overpriced, as are Apple upgrades.

You can buy something, and like it (I love this MacBook) but still be aware there are other options that are better for other people/what their needs are and for cheaper.

[RomanceLakes]

Just wanted to add my experience - I'm blown away by the new M1 MBP. I bought one to replace my 2018 quad-core Intel 13" MBP. That ran FM fine, but the fans were very noisy, it got hot, I had to put the 3D match engine on low settings when connected to my 5K external display, and the UI was often a bit slow and unresponsive. Plus it would last 1.5 hours max on battery.

The new M1 Mac is amazing. FM is super fluid, I can play on my external display in 5K at the highest 3D graphics settings and it doesn't skip a beat. (And this is translated software not even natively written for Apple Silicon!) Can't even tell if the fan is on. Unplugged it and played on the built-in 13" screen for an hour, and still had 80% battery left at the end.

If you're on the fence, go for it. These machines seem like a breath of fresh air.

Edited December 14, 2020 by RomanceLakes

[Smurf]

13 hours ago, MoosAlbo said:

So what are you looking for in this topic? I am curious.

Same as any other forum, an open discussion and back and forth of opinions in a respectable manner. 

I am just answering questions and putting across my point of view.

 

[Smurf]

2 hours ago, MoosAlbo said:

Ok well his advise based on his own (situation) as a power user doesn’t apply to most of the people who use laptops. 
 

I have a MacBook Air M1 for personal use and a Lenovo 17 inch i7, 64gb ram, 6GB Graphics card for work.

The MacBook Air smokes it in performance and battery.

I can play FM for 2 hours on the Lenovo while on the MacBook Air I can play 9 hours.

the Lenovo costs €2500

I've repeatedly said that the M1 chip in the 13 inch range of laptops at the moment is the best on the market.

M1 chip is not in Mac 16 inch - all my advise is that if you are going for a 13 inch and can afford it then go for the Macbook 13 inch with the M1 Chip.

If you don't have the money for the M1 chip 13 inch Macbook - then I have literally no recommendation at the moment for a 13 inch PC laptop.

I thought I was very cear about this.

 

However, if you want a 15+ inch laptop/mac - your money is better spent on a PC laptop rather than Mac.

I've also said all along - if you want a Mac and have the money then go buy a Mac - they're great computers. But they are overpriced. 

Even the 13 inch M1 Macbook is a bit pricey - but I wouldn't recommend any other 13 inch laptop at the moment.

 

That's it really. Nothing power user - or anything like that. There are people coming on here just reading/lurking and I want to ensure that both sides of the story are told.

 

It's a great thread I love reading it, and I love being involved in it. I like talking about this stuff. I just want to ensure that the information is not diluted one way towards Apple - and ensure there's some balance to the arguments.

 

[анонимный]

21 minutes ago, Smurf said:

It's a great thread I love reading it, and I love being involved in it. I like talking about this stuff. I just want to ensure that the information is not diluted one way towards Apple - and ensure there's some balance to the arguments.

This. 

[MoosAlbo]

50 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I've repeatedly said that the M1 chip in the 13 inch range of laptops at the moment is the best on the market.

M1 chip is not in Mac 16 inch - all my advise is that if you are going for a 13 inch and can afford it then go for the Macbook 13 inch with the M1 Chip.

If you don't have the money for the M1 chip 13 inch Macbook - then I have literally no recommendation at the moment for a 13 inch PC laptop.

I thought I was very cear about this.

 

However, if you want a 15+ inch laptop/mac - your money is better spent on a PC laptop rather than Mac.

I've also said all along - if you want a Mac and have the money then go buy a Mac - they're great computers. But they are overpriced. 

Even the 13 inch M1 Macbook is a bit pricey - but I wouldn't recommend any other 13 inch laptop at the moment.

 

That's it really. Nothing power user - or anything like that. There are people coming on here just reading/lurking and I want to ensure that both sides of the story are told.

 

It's a great thread I love reading it, and I love being involved in it. I like talking about this stuff. I just want to ensure that the information is not diluted one way towards Apple - and ensure there's some balance to the arguments.

 

I would have waited for the Apple silicon 16 inch’s MacBooks and iMacs to come out before assuming that they are not worth it. So that’s why I didn’t like that advise because it’s based on assumptions. So I wanted to make sure information is not based on assumptions.

That’s all. Didn’t want to stop anyone from voicing their opinion. 

[Smurf]

25 minutes ago, MoosAlbo said:

I would have waited for the Apple silicon 16 inch’s MacBooks and iMacs to come out before assuming that they are not worth it. So that’s why I didn’t like that advise because it’s based on assumptions. So I wanted to make sure information is not based on assumptions.

That’s all. Didn’t want to stop anyone from voicing their opinion. 

As I said - it will be same chip the M1 - I presume. 

And you can already get better processors in 15+ inch machines that are better than the M1.

So the price for the M1 Macbook 16 inch - I am doubting it will be significantly lower to beat others on price.

 

[shubharora734]

I'm using Big Sur and no glaring issues thus far. I still get the crash after I quit the game that was previously in FM20 though. 

[MoosAlbo]

33 minutes ago, Smurf said:

As I said - it will be same chip the M1 - I presume. 

And you can already get better processors in 15+ inch machines that are better than the M1.

So the price for the M1 Macbook 16 inch - I am doubting it will be significantly lower to beat others on price.

 

I can see them persue a different price and product strategy to increase their market share. Now that they control/produce allmost all components in the Macs. 
 

They have invested so much in this that they cannot offered to just be happy with a small market share with high margines. 
 

I have of course no evidence that this will be the case.

[RomanceLakes]

1 hour ago, Smurf said:

As I said - it will be same chip the M1 - I presume. 

And you can already get better processors in 15+ inch machines that are better than the M1.

So the price for the M1 Macbook 16 inch - I am doubting it will be significantly lower to beat others on price.

 

FWIW seems like the high-end MacBook Pros may be getting chips (the "M1X") with significantly more cores than the M1 next year: https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/07/apple-silicon-mac-power-macbook-pro/

[Smurf]

2 hours ago, RomanceLakes said:

FWIW seems like the high-end MacBook Pros may be getting chips (the "M1X") with significantly more cores than the M1 next year: https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/07/apple-silicon-mac-power-macbook-pro/

Yeh - they might be - and probably very good. But at the price point (and going historically by Apple) it won't be cheap. 

By the time it comes out - AMD will have a processor that will be as good. And Intel.

And then somone else will bring out a processor better than those. And around and around we go.

 

My point has always been that Apple are just too expensive. And I won't be buying a Mac with an M1X chip in it when Mac Book Pros are a crippling

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^That is disgraceful to be charging anyone for what's currently inside those machines in terms of parts etc.

 

When I can get the same/similar/better performance for half the price - I'd say even a quarter of the price.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Smurf

[TopToffee]

5 hours ago, Smurf said:

Yeh - they might be - and probably very good. But at the price point (and going historically by Apple) it won't be cheap. 

By the time it comes out - AMD will have a processor that will be as good. And Intel.

And then somone else will bring out a processor better than those. And around and around we go.

 

My point has always been that Apple are just too expensive. And I won't be buying a Mac with an M1X chip in it when Mac Book Pros are a crippling

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^That is disgraceful to be charging anyone for what's currently inside those machines in terms of parts etc.

 

When I can get the same/similar/better performance for half the price - I'd say even a quarter of the price.

 

 

 

While I agree with a fair bit of what you’ve said, if the timeline for the M1X 16” is as is being reported (end of Q1/early Q2 2021) I think it’s pretty optimistic to expect AMD and (especially) Intel to have caught up with the M1 (much less the M1X) - especially if taking into account speed AND battery life - by that point.

[MoosAlbo]

21 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

While I agree with a fair bit of what you’ve said, if the timeline for the M1X 16” is as is being reported (end of Q1/early Q2 2021) I think it’s pretty optimistic to expect AMD and (especially) Intel to have caught up with the M1 (much less the M1X) - especially if taking into account speed AND battery life - by that point.

This.

[Smurf]

6 hours ago, TopToffee said:

While I agree with a fair bit of what you’ve said, if the timeline for the M1X 16” is as is being reported (end of Q1/early Q2 2021) I think it’s pretty optimistic to expect AMD and (especially) Intel to have caught up with the M1 (much less the M1X) - especially if taking into account speed AND battery life - by that point.

That's not up to me. It's all conjecture anyway and we are both guessing.

And if it comes to me spending €2700+ potentially over €3000+ on MacBook Pro - vs spending €1500 on a computer that will have a slightly lesser performance I know what I'll be buying.

I need too much RAM and Apple prices 64gb at over €600??? You can almost buy a whole computer for €600 that will run FM fairly well. 

[Smurf]

6 hours ago, MoosAlbo said:

This.

Yeh but it's wrong. 

[анонимный]

23 minutes ago, Smurf said:

You can almost buy a whole computer for €600 that will run FM fairly well. 

But will that €600 computer have as good a marketing campaign as the 16-inch Apple MBP? 

Jokes aside, this thread has gotten a bit off topic lately and we should get back to the actual performance of the current M1 13-inch MBP and MBA.

Now that it's been about a month since it's initial release it would be interesting to know if anyone has started running into any issues with it so far.

[MoosAlbo]

7 hours ago, анонимный said:

But will that €600 computer have as good a marketing campaign as the 16-inch Apple MBP? 

Jokes aside, this thread has gotten a bit off topic lately and we should get back to the actual performance of the current M1 13-inch MBP and MBA.

Now that it's been about a month since it's initial release it would be interesting to know if anyone has started running into any issues with it so far.

Nope 0 issues so far. Best FM experience on a computer ever. Only issue I have is that I became premier league champion with Arsenal. Surely that's a bug in the game.

When will your Mac arrive?

Edited December 15, 2020 by MoosAlbo

[анонимный]

13 minutes ago, MoosAlbo said:

Only issue I have is that I became premier league champion with Arsenal. Surely that's a bug in the game.

Lmao, yes definitely a bug that I'm sure SI will patch asap now.

13 minutes ago, MoosAlbo said:

When will your Mac arrive?

It arrived in the country from China today, so I'm hoping either tomorrow or Thursday. I'm so excited.

[Smurf]

3 hours ago, MoosAlbo said:

Nope 0 issues so far. Best FM experience on a computer ever. Only issue I have is that I became premier league champion with Arsenal. Surely that's a bug in the game.

When will your Mac arrive?

How long have you had it? 

What's your setup - how many leagues/divisions/database size etc. you got running?

How many seasons are you in to the game? 

 

[Jinner Jamie]

I'm really tempted to get back into the desktop world of things, the M1 Mac Mini looks like a dream machine for me. The only non FM gaming I do is on the PS5 anyway, I'm currently rock the 15" mid 2018 base MBP and I'm not looking to replace it but FM just kills it and not in a good way.

I cannot justify building a whole gaming rig just for FM and I hate windows after converting to MacOS, should I persevere for now or dive in? Will SI come to support the M1 natively or will be put on the back burner?

Edited December 15, 2020 by Jinner Jamie

[Smurf]

4 minutes ago, Jinner Jamie said:

I really tempted to get back into the desktop world of things, the M1 Mac Mini looks like a dream machine for me. The only non FM gaming I do is on the PS5 anyway, I'm currently rock the 15" mid 2018 base MBP and I'm not looking to replace it but FM just kills it and not in a good way.

I cannot justify building a whole gaming rig just for FM and I hate windows after converting to MacOS, should I persevere for now or dive in? Will SI come to support the M1 natively or will be put on the back burner?

Dont know about native support but not causing any issues and performs well under emulator as well as it does on native x86.

Dont understand how you cant custom build laptop over price of M1 Mac Book 13 inch.

You could get a bigger screen a similar or better performance of game play.

And cheaper.

Never understood the OS hate towards Windows. I use both Mac and Windows and they both suck as much as each other for different reasons.

But the programmes all work the same way, same ui and all that.

Really cannot fathom why you would spend so much on a small form laptop and not consider custom built laptop which would give similar if not better performance for a lot cheaper.

Anyway, it's your money.

[анонимный]

18 minutes ago, Jinner Jamie said:

I cannot justify building a whole gaming rig just for FM and I hate windows after converting to MacOS, should I persevere for now or dive in? Will SI come to support the M1 natively or will be put on the back burner?

Well judging by other user's experiences with their M1 MacBooks (even though FM not being supported fully on M1 and running through Rosetta 2) on the benchmarks thread, the M1 MBP is currently the best performing laptop, and is even competing with higher specced PCs.

EDIT: So based on that, I'd assume the Mac Mini would be even better as it has better thermals and can sustain single-core performance even longer than the MBP.

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by анонимный

[анонимный]

4 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Dont understand how you cant custom build laptop over price of M1 Mac Book 13 inch

You may have misread, but user was asking about getting an M1 Mac Mini, which is the cheapest Apple M1 product.

[Smurf]

Just now, анонимный said:

You may have misread, but user was asking about getting an M1 Mac Mini, which is the cheapest Apple M1 product.

Sorry on my phone and hard to read.

Will have to check out mac mini now. Curious.

Anyway, I understand when everything else is Apple. Macs sense to stay in same family.

Still wonder about custom build over mac mini with m1... surely you can get similar PC for much cheaper price?

As I said, not my money. But I am curious I suppose.

[Jinner Jamie]

9 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Dont know about native support but not causing any issues and performs well under emulator as well as it does on native x86.

Dont understand how you cant custom build laptop over price of M1 Mac Book 13 inch.

You could get a bigger screen a similar or better performance of game play.

And cheaper.

Never understood the OS hate towards Windows. I use both Mac and Windows and they both suck as much as each other for different reasons.

But the programmes all work the same way, same ui and all that.

Really cannot fathom why you would spend so much on a small form laptop and not consider custom built laptop which would give similar if not better performance for a lot cheaper.

Anyway, it's your money.

I'm talking about the Mac Mini desktop, I don't need a laptop the MBP i'm running is more than enough for me for the next couple of years.

I probably shouldn't say hate but I'm just not a lover of Windows anymore I use it on a daily for work too, and I just find it meh. MacOS for me is far buggier and has it's own issues but I just find it nicer to use. I have definitely become an apple sheep in the past few years.

The only major issue is the lack of storage that comes with the base apple products and their mark up to higher storage tiers is ridiculous.

[анонимный]

4 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Still wonder about custom build over mac mini with m1... surely you can get similar PC for much cheaper price?

Base Mac Mini starts at £699 in UK.

I'd say the base model would be more than enough if all the user was using it for was FM.

[Smurf]

40 minutes ago, анонимный said:

Base Mac Mini starts at £699 in UK.

I'd say the base model would be more than enough if all the user was using it for was FM.

Thanks for that - so just for FM with a similar build and performance - kept all parts roughly the same.

The M1 chip is a beast - so this processor is good too - i3-10320 - it certainly has similar specs to the M1. -however if you spent more you can get a better processor.

I'm only doing it for comparison - not to convince anyone one way or the other - if you want to buy Apple then go ahead.

Case
Akasa Euler TX Thin Mini ITX Fanless Aluminium Case - Silent!
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i3 Quad Core Processor i3-10320 (3.80GHz) 8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® H410T: (Mini-ITX, DDR4, USB 3.2, 6Gb/s)
Memory (RAM)
8GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
INTEL® HD GRAPHICS 630
1^st Storage Drive
256GB PCS 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (500MB/R, 400MB/W)
Price: £551.00 including VAT and Delivery

Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-silent-pc/tb8tKrbBY4/

 

The same with the i5 - 16000 processor comes to 
Price: £604.00 including VAT and Delivery

 

Both still roughly £100 cheaper than the Apple Mac Mini with M1 chip.

And if it's just for FM both would be amazing for FM and general multitasking.

 

What I like about both of these options is that they are upgradable to 128gb RAM.

The M1 chip at the moment only supports up to 16gb RAM. Just in case anyone needs 32/64 gb RAM for large photo/video editing etc.

 

Again - just a little comparison on price vs specs etc. Nothing against Apple, if you want to buy their product you're getting a very good computer for £699 in the basic model of the Mac Mini.

 

 

[Smurf]

50 minutes ago, Jinner Jamie said:

The only major issue is the lack of storage that comes with the base apple products and their mark up to higher storage tiers is ridiculous.

I completely agree with you. I need more disk space for scratch disk for Photoshop

- and I need a lot upgrading to 2tb drive I think was priced at £600!

You can buy a cheaper 2tb external ssd - about 1/3 the price.

Even adding RAM is a joke. The price and it's stock RAM that you can buy anywhere for a fraction of the price.

 

[MoosAlbo]

4 hours ago, Smurf said:

How long have you had it? 

What's your setup - how many leagues/divisions/database size etc. you got running?

How many seasons are you in to the game? 

 

One week;

One network game with 5 leagues (10 divisions) and large database.

Standard settings en graphics on high.

2 seasons in.

[jessejesster]

2 seasons in a week @MoosAlbo? Are you simulating matches and going on vacation?

Quote

 

 

[MoosAlbo]

6 hours ago, jessejesster said:

2 seasons in a week @MoosAlbo? Are you simulating matches and going on vacation?

 

Nope. I am forced to play 3 to 4 hours a night because my friend who I play this network game with is addicted. 

[Smurf]

10 hours ago, MoosAlbo said:

One week;

One network game with 5 leagues (10 divisions) and large database.

Standard settings en graphics on high.

2 seasons in.

It's not particularly demanding setup. 

Are all the leagues/divisions in full detail? 

With a large database and a small amount of leagues/divisions running - players will eventually run out of clubs to be signed by.

Anyway - I'd expect that type of setup to be quick even on a lower end laptop.

But I don't know how online network games work either, I've never done, maybe they're more demanding?

 

[анонимный]

29 minutes ago, Smurf said:

It's not particularly demanding setup. 

Are all the leagues/divisions in full detail? 

Hopefully getting my M1 MBP tomorrow and I'm planning on starting a journeyman save (if it can handle it).

I'll probably just load the European leagues but I'll keep you posted with how it performs.

[MoosAlbo]

1 hour ago, Smurf said:

It's not particularly demanding setup. 

Are all the leagues/divisions in full detail? 

With a large database and a small amount of leagues/divisions running - players will eventually run out of clubs to be signed by.

Anyway - I'd expect that type of setup to be quick even on a lower end laptop.

But I don't know how online network games work either, I've never done, maybe they're more demanding?

 

Agree but still the experience is quicker than the Lenovo I have mentioned where I had the same set up. Also planning to do a more demanding setup like benchmark B for my own save game. 

I don't know if a network game is more demanding. 

[TopToffee]

17 hours ago, Smurf said:

Thanks for that - so just for FM with a similar build and performance - kept all parts roughly the same.

The M1 chip is a beast - so this processor is good too - i3-10320 - it certainly has similar specs to the M1. -however if you spent more you can get a better processor.

I'm only doing it for comparison - not to convince anyone one way or the other - if you want to buy Apple then go ahead.

Case
Akasa Euler TX Thin Mini ITX Fanless Aluminium Case - Silent!
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i3 Quad Core Processor i3-10320 (3.80GHz) 8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® H410T: (Mini-ITX, DDR4, USB 3.2, 6Gb/s)
Memory (RAM)
8GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
INTEL® HD GRAPHICS 630
1^st Storage Drive
256GB PCS 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (500MB/R, 400MB/W)
Price: £551.00 including VAT and Delivery

Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-silent-pc/tb8tKrbBY4/

 

The same with the i5 - 16000 processor comes to 
Price: £604.00 including VAT and Delivery

 

Both still roughly £100 cheaper than the Apple Mac Mini with M1 chip.

And if it's just for FM both would be amazing for FM and general multitasking.

 

What I like about both of these options is that they are upgradable to 128gb RAM.

The M1 chip at the moment only supports up to 16gb RAM. Just in case anyone needs 32/64 gb RAM for large photo/video editing etc.

 

 

Only benchmarks, obviously, but the scores for both those processors lag significantly (MASSIVELY, in the case of the i3) behind the M1. (NB these figures are for the i5-10600, which I'm guessing is what you intended to type, since i5-16000 doesn't exist)

i3 single: 949
i5 single: 1248
M1 single: 1733

i3 multi: 3029
i5 multi: 6254
M1 multi: 7664

 

On the RAM issue - firstly, I agree that Apple RAM upgrades are overpriced... however (and you may have already done this) there's a LOT of videos out there of creative Pros using all three of the M1 machines (in both 8GB and 16GB setups) to edit huge video and photo files and marvelling at how well they handle them. You may have seen these already, but if you haven't, might be worth taking a look. A recurrent theme is "M1 with 8GB behaves like an intel with 16GB, 16GB behaves like 32GB".  Now that's a throwaway line, but it does appear that the M1 machines aren't necessarily directly comparable with intel machines in terms of their performance with the same RAM quantities.

Edited December 16, 2020 by TopToffee

[MoosAlbo]

2 hours ago, TopToffee said:

Only benchmarks, obviously, but the scores for both those processors lag significantly (MASSIVELY, in the case of the i3) behind the M1. (NB these figures are for the i5-10600, which I'm guessing is what you intended to type, since i5-16000 doesn't exist)

i3 single: 949
i5 single: 1248
M1 single: 1733

i3 multi: 3029
i5 multi: 6254
M1 multi: 7664

 

On the RAM issue - firstly, I agree that Apple RAM upgrades are overpriced... however (and you may have already done this) there's a LOT of videos out there of creative Pros using all three of the M1 machines (in both 8GB and 16GB setups) to edit huge video and photo files and marvelling at how well they handle them. You may have seen these already, but if you haven't, might be worth taking a look. A recurrent theme is "M1 with 8GB behaves like an intel with 16GB, 16GB behaves like 32GB".  Now that's a throwaway line, but it does appear that the M1 machines aren't necessarily directly comparable with intel machines in terms of their performance with the same RAM quantities.

I agree with your last point. I don't think you can compare the number of GB's directly with intell because of the design of the M1 and the way it uses less ram for workloads that typically use more ram on intel. 

[Smurf]

6 hours ago, MoosAlbo said:

Agree but still the experience is quicker than the Lenovo I have mentioned where I had the same set up. Also planning to do a more demanding setup like benchmark B for my own save game. 

I don't know if a network game is more demanding. 

What Specs are the Lenovo?

[Smurf]

6 hours ago, TopToffee said:

Only benchmarks, obviously, but the scores for both those processors lag significantly (MASSIVELY, in the case of the i3) behind the M1. (NB these figures are for the i5-10600, which I'm guessing is what you intended to type, since i5-16000 doesn't exist)

i3 single: 949
i5 single: 1248
M1 single: 1733

i3 multi: 3029
i5 multi: 6254
M1 multi: 7664

Where are you getting single core and multicore ratings for M1 chips? 

[Smurf]

23 hours ago, Smurf said:

Intel® Core™ i3 Quad Core Processor i3-10320 (3.80GHz) 8MB Cache

i5 - 16000 

 

6 hours ago, TopToffee said:

Only benchmarks, obviously, but the scores for both those processors lag significantly (MASSIVELY, in the case of the i3) behind the M1. (NB these figures are for the i5-10600, which I'm guessing is what you intended to type, since i5-16000 doesn't exist)

i3 single: 949
i5 single: 1248
M1 single: 1733

i3 multi: 3029
i5 multi: 6254
M1 multi: 7664

I don't know where you got those scores from

i3 10300
Single Thread Rating: 2685

i5 10600 
Single Thread Rating: 2872

 

 

[craiigman]

On 15/12/2020 at 18:03, Smurf said:

Thanks for that - so just for FM with a similar build and performance - kept all parts roughly the same.

The M1 chip is a beast - so this processor is good too - i3-10320 - it certainly has similar specs to the M1. -however if you spent more you can get a better processor.

I'm only doing it for comparison - not to convince anyone one way or the other - if you want to buy Apple then go ahead.

Case
Akasa Euler TX Thin Mini ITX Fanless Aluminium Case - Silent!
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i3 Quad Core Processor i3-10320 (3.80GHz) 8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® H410T: (Mini-ITX, DDR4, USB 3.2, 6Gb/s)
Memory (RAM)
8GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
INTEL® HD GRAPHICS 630
1^st Storage Drive
256GB PCS 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (500MB/R, 400MB/W)
Price: £551.00 including VAT and Delivery

Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-silent-pc/tb8tKrbBY4/

 

The same with the i5 - 16000 processor comes to 
Price: £604.00 including VAT and Delivery

 

Both still roughly £100 cheaper than the Apple Mac Mini with M1 chip.

And if it's just for FM both would be amazing for FM and general multitasking.

 

What I like about both of these options is that they are upgradable to 128gb RAM.

The M1 chip at the moment only supports up to 16gb RAM. Just in case anyone needs 32/64 gb RAM for large photo/video editing etc.

 

Again - just a little comparison on price vs specs etc. Nothing against Apple, if you want to buy their product you're getting a very good computer for £699 in the basic model of the Mac Mini.

 

 

Don’t forget need to pay for Windows as well.

[Smurf]

42 minutes ago, craiigman said:

Don’t forget need to pay for Windows as well.

No it comes installed on most computers. You can choose not to have it installed and save 100 quid.

You might have Windows license already that you can transfer to a new computer

Good way of saving even more with a windows pc.

If the Windows license is OEM it dies with the computer. Its non transferable.

But if its retail version its worth checking out.

Another way to save 100 quid.

Something you cannot do with Mac. As far as I know.

The OS is sold with the computer, so you are buying it in the blended price.

 

 

[jessejesster]

Why wouldn't the  M1 MBP handle a journeyman save? Wasn't that the whole reason you got it @анонимный ?

Enjoy!