Brexit in FM21

[Platinum]

2 hours ago, Junkhead said:

It's not up to the Premier League or the FA though.

They can want whatever they like.

? I was responding to you saying the FA want to limit players coming in from abroad

[Junkhead]

3 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

? I was responding to you saying the FA want to limit players coming in from abroad

Fair enough - you were talking about the FA & the Premier League reaching an agreement, I get that now.

What I am trying to say is that they can agree or disagree on whatever they like, it is ultimately down to the government and the Home Office rules on immigration.

 

I think lots of people on this thread seem to think that some of us want this to happen or like the situation.  For the record, I am completely for free movement and relaxed immigration laws on a personal level.  At the end of the day the Home Office have announced a points based system.  The game should reflect this - but it should reflect this in a clear & detailed way which actually works properly as you rightly point out.

[Jonthedon26]

14 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

People from Gibraltar dont need a WP.

I'm almost certain there is a bug here. There are rejections which arent making sense and that is what has led to this thread imo. If the rules were transparent then this thread wouldnt even be needed and we could post in the bugs forum if it was a bug.

That's interesting! I will have a look when I fire it back up to make sure I got that right but I am sure the 11 players who could get a WP on appeal were Spanish who played in Gibraltar

[Junkhead]

8 minutes ago, Jonthedon26 said:

That's interesting! I will have a look when I fire it back up to make sure I got that right but I am sure the 11 players who could get a WP on appeal were Spanish who played in Gibraltar

If they are Gibraltan they shouldn't need a WP, however Spanish nationals who play in Gibraltar should.

[Jonthedon26]

28 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

If they are Gibraltan they shouldn't need a WP, however Spanish nationals who play in Gibraltar should.

I have just looked again, of the 55,000 players on my player search screen (filtered to interested in a transfer), only 25 would get a WP on appeal, 23 of those are Spanish players in the Gibraltan league and 2 are Serbians in the Irish Premier Division. Surely this is bugged!? Can someone at SI confirm if these figures sound correct because to me only 25 players out of 55,000 likely to get a WP using the appeal process sounds extremely low.

EDIT: I did a bit more testing, so of the 55,000 players in the search, 46,762 would require a work permit. Of these, 123 return as "work permit likely" and the 25 mentioned above as "work permit after appeal". So for teams of Birmingham City's level, only 147 players are able to be signed using the implemented WP process. The other 9k players that don't require WPs at all are UK nationals or players currently playing in the UK or on loan abroad from a team in the UK. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Jonthedon26

[Junkhead]

14 minutes ago, Jonthedon26 said:

I have just looked again, of the 55,000 players on my player search screen (filtered to interested in a transfer), only 25 would get a WP on appeal, 23 of those are Spanish players in the Gibraltan league and 2 are Serbians in the Irish Premier Division. Surely this is bugged!? Can someone at SI confirm if these figures sound correct because to me only 25 players out of 55,000 likely to get a WP using the appeal process sounds extremely low.  

Are there other players in the Irish Prem on the shortlist who won't get permits according to the game?

 

Who are the Serbians, out of interest?

[Jonthedon26]

4 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Are there other players in the Irish Prem on the shortlist who won't get permits according to the game?

 

Who are the Serbians, out of interest?

Sorry one Serb (Stefan Colovic) and one Austrian (Alexander Kogler).

They are the only two players playing in Ireland that need a WP, 78 players (in my search) in the league don't require one, including individuals from Cape Verde and Nigeria.

[Junkhead]

3 minutes ago, Jonthedon26 said:

Sorry one Serb (Stefan Colovic) and one Austrian (Alexander Kogler).

They are the only two players playing in Ireland that need a WP, 78 players (in my search) in the league don't require one, including individuals from Cape Verde and Nigeria.

If anything the bug there is that either would get a work permit on appeal.  Cannot see why either would.

My guess would be that the Nigerian & Cape Verdian have English as a second nationality? 

[Jonthedon26]

3 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

If anything the bug there is that either would get a work permit on appeal.  Cannot see why either would.

My guess would be that the Nigerian & Cape Verdian have English as a second nationality? 

You are right, one has English and one has Irish as a second nationality.

[Travis Bickle]

I don't have FM21 yet, however, Brexit seriously bothered me in FM20. 

Firstly, yes I think Brexit should be in the game. The UK has already left the European Union, therefore it is correct that Brexit takes place. I've done a lot of reading on the proposed or speculated rules, and what annoyed me most about FM20 was the "17 foreigners" rule, as it was never being discussed, and is honestly very advantageous for the EPL but bad for everyone else. It also bothered me that in the case of a Hard Brexit, the WP rules would often not even apply in England meaning you could sign 18 year old Peruvians. 

As of yet, no one knows what the official rules will be, as the Premier League and FA are allegedly in a battle over how things will look. The Premier League wants less restrictions, the FA wants more. If FM21 has implemented a tougher system for Work Permits, I think it's actually good for the game and should stay that way until we have evidence that things will be different. 

Just my opinion. In all honesty, if I had to bet, I'd say that they'll end up with the HG rules being restricted further and that's it. 

[Travis Bickle]

18 hours ago, Junkhead said:

You do realise that in reality we are six weeks away from the end of the transition period with no significant trade deal, let alone indication that we will be working with countries in respect of free or even relaxed labour rules?

I think it's fair to say that a "hard brexit" is now am absolute certainty.

Basically this. 

It's correct to assume there will be no deal unless a deal is struck. Saying "oh but footballers will be exempt" is nothing more than speculation at this point. SI are doing their best at speculating how a very complex political situation will unfold. The way I see it, erring on the side of caution and working with the information we have right now is correct. I'd like there to be a Hard Brexit with WP rules in most games until we know otherwise. Just me, but I feel that's correct. 

[Synthespian]

On 20/11/2020 at 14:14, benhoward12 said:

A Liverpool save is going to be a very different experience to a lot of lower prem teams and lower league English team as you will be signing top national players

It's almost impossible to do a Newcastle save.
You have to sign players under 23, but none of them will have the points more than likely, and anyone with a bit of potential (and thus re-sale) you are quoted 60m for 19 year olds that have never played a single prem game.  Silly.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Synthespian

[AllyJoseph]

Its a difficult thing to balance, but it seems a little unrealistic in its current guise or even bugged.

I was trying to sign Steven Bergwijn from Spurs. 3.3m. Its my first pre-season after promotion, so my highest paid player is on 15k, Bergwijn would be on 39k. He spent the season starting for Mitjland on loan, playing in Europe, he has sporadically played for Spurs for the last 4 years, around 4/5 league games a season.

His work permit was declined. That seems excessive...the negotiations told me a wage of 1.5k was enough to get a work permit.

It needs finer tuning, im all for it being in the game, but reality of it is some of the decisions are crazy.

 

Edit: if this is the way forward for the WP rules then serious tweeks need to be made over how expensive young British talent is. Getting quoted 150m+ for an 18 year old is madness when players like Sancho, Bellingham, Lookman etc go abroad for 50m downwards. Kids are not worth that much and are now wiser to sticking to one club until they are 24 and wasted their career.

Edited November 21, 2020 by AllyJoseph

[Synthespian]

1 hour ago, AllyJoseph said:

Edit: if this is the way forward for the WP rules then serious tweeks need to be made over how expensive young British talent is. Getting quoted 150m+ for an 18 year old is madness when players like Sancho, Bellingham, Lookman etc go abroad for 50m downwards. Kids are not worth that much and are now wiser to sticking to one club until they are 24 and wasted their career.

That's where I think the problem is with this.  It's fine to have WP rules, but when you get this sort of negotiation from a club, it isn't going to happen.

[Overmars]

1 hour ago, Synthespian said:

It's almost impossible to do a Newcastle save.
You have to sign players under 23, but none of them will have the points more than likely, and anyone with a bit of potential (and thus re-sale) you are quoted 60m for 19 year olds that have never played a single prem game.  Silly.

That's a good point about club vision. It's as if that part of the game is still working under the pre-Brexit rules.

[AllyJoseph]

9 minutes ago, Synthespian said:

That's where I think the problem is with this.  It's fine to have WP rules, but when you get this sort of negotiation from a club, it isn't going to happen.

This wouldn't be AS tough a pill to swallow if players like Sancho hadn't shown that they won't be used like this any more, they will either play or demand a move, or leave for free at a very young age.

Added to this, ALL the foreign suggestions my recruitment meetings give me are unable to get work permits, making the meetings redundant.

[Overmars]

2 hours ago, Travis Bickle said:

It's correct to assume there will be no deal unless a deal is struck. Saying "oh but footballers will be exempt" is nothing more than speculation at this point. SI are doing their best at speculating how a very complex political situation will unfold. The way I see it, erring on the side of caution and working with the information we have right now is correct. I'd like there to be a Hard Brexit with WP rules in most games until we know otherwise. Just me, but I feel that's correct. 

You argue against speculation in your second sentence but then support speculation in your third sentence. It's all just speculation at this point, which is why it would be more logical to keep existing rules in place until rules actually change.

And from a game standpoint, it would be pretty simple to offer the game player a choice of Brexit rules in the game setup screen.

[Crispypaul]

One quick question - does this really affect backroom staff? As that's very harsh as I've managed in countries with restrictions on foreign players like South Korea and as far as I know backroom staff were never affected by the restriction on playing staff.

[AllyJoseph]

1 minute ago, Crispypaul said:

One quick question - does this really affect backroom staff? As that's very harsh as I've managed in countries with restrictions on foreign players like South Korea and as far as I know backroom staff were never affected by the restriction on playing staff.

They need at least a certain licence, think its continental C.

[Darragh1992]

Cant play this anymore until i can get the Wp rules sorted, so boring just looking through a pool of british players to sign. its like playing Call of Duty but you can only use the guns that were made in your country, seriously sucking all the fun out of this years game!

[Iwabik]

2 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

One quick question - does this really affect backroom staff? As that's very harsh as I've managed in countries with restrictions on foreign players like South Korea and as far as I know backroom staff were never affected by the restriction on playing staff.

Yes, basically you only can sign staff with a license (Continental Pro (i think) in Championship, don't know about lower leagues)

Edited November 21, 2020 by Iwabik

[improvox]

6 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

One quick question - does this really affect backroom staff? As that's very harsh as I've managed in countries with restrictions on foreign players like South Korea and as far as I know backroom staff were never affected by the restriction on playing staff.

Its not harsh though is it? Work permits and the restriction of foreign nationals coming to the UK to work will be in place across pretty much all professions in the UK. Why should physios, sports scientists etc be exempt just because they work for a football club? This will be the reality of brexit. 

[Jonthedon26]

18 minutes ago, improvox said:

Its not harsh though is it? Work permits and the restriction of foreign nationals coming to the UK to work will be in place across pretty much all professions in the UK. Why should physios, sports scientists etc be exempt just because they work for a football club? This will be the reality of brexit. 

I don't know all the ins and outs of visa's and work permits in real life, but there are a lot of major exemptions for sports persons. Combat athletes for example quite easily get WPs to go and fight and train in the States for long periods of time.

[Crispypaul]

22 minutes ago, improvox said:

Its not harsh though is it? Work permits and the restriction of foreign nationals coming to the UK to work will be in place across pretty much all professions in the UK. Why should physios, sports scientists etc be exempt just because they work for a football club? This will be the reality of brexit. 

Harsh because it seems pretty inconsistent with other countries where there are similar restrictions on foreign players. Unless that has changed for FM21 on which case fair enough.

[Junkhead]

People seem to be basing what might happen here on what happens elsewhere. This is where I think people are going to be surprised.

 

[AllyJoseph]

I don't think having a hard Brexit with next to no foreigners coming is a bad thing or needs changing, but the rest of the game needs tweeking to accommodate that, a few problems I can see at the minute are these...

1. My suggested players from scouts are just full of players I can't get because of WP issues, this has made my scouting team almost redundant. The press tell me when players are unlikely to get work permits following their research, but my scouting team doesn't?
2. Big clubs are still signing young foreign kids, which is fine, but they then proceed to not play them for 3 seasons, they fail to get a wp and then are sold on at a loss or released. Is that really how it'd work in real life?
3. Young talent is still ridiculously overpriced making it almost impossible to buy British players anyway, my Prem is full of really weird players in the side or actual internationals without work permits being left to rot.
4. Club visions aren't taking this change into account, sign players under X age, players under X age have inflated prices or can't get WP's, this leads to you failing your club vision.

I think just brushing it off as "well this is what is going to be like" does the actual problems a dis-service, it's not simply a case of Brexit's rubbish...which it is...but it's also reality. But in reality, the above things wouldn't happen.

 

[Junkhead]

11 minutes ago, AllyJoseph said:

I think just brushing it off as "well this is what is going to be like" does the actual problems a dis-service, it's not simply a case of Brexit's rubbish...which it is...but it's also reality. But in reality, the above things wouldn't happen.

100% agree with everything you've said.

I said earlier there were two different conversations on this thread and I don't think either side of any argument would disagree with what you have just said here.

The AI appears to have as much idea as any of us how best to deal with it by the looks of it 😂

[AllyJoseph]

5 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

100% agree with everything you've said.

I said earlier there were two different conversations on this thread and I don't think either side of any argument would disagree with what you have just said here.

The AI appears to have as much idea as any of us how best to deal with it by the looks of it 😂

That's where I clock out of the debate tbh and say the "take it out" guys win. If it can not be implemented without it being a mess, it needs to be taken out until it works. I've got Man City selling me wonderkids for 500k whilst simultaneously hoarding 18 year old Brazilians they bought for 50m that they'll never play. I've got League Two level players starting in the Prem, I've got Championship level players being bought and sold for 30m+, I've got internationals being refused work permits, I've got scouts who can't scout, directors of football who can't direct. There really feels like a huge swelling of support for SI, which they deserve, and a lot of people are definitely brushing it off as "meh, but its brexit", on the flip side, there is a group of people who are also going "grrr arg, I want to sign the 24 year old Armenian to play a bit part in my squad!" which is also unreasonable.

I've read a lot of stuff on Brexit from SI since it first came into play, I've always been on their side, its annoying but its a fact of life. I think this time though they've got very caught up in the "but this will happen" argument that they've forgotten that it's caused knock on effects that definitely won't happen. Until that can be balanced in a way that isn't totally game breaking or immersion breaking, it needs to be taken out or at least toned down significantly.

Basically, I see Brexit as a bug atm, and that's not really fair on the Brexit feature which is actually pretty good. I hope they fix it for full release, but I doubt it'll change until the Transfer Window patch which will be a crying shame as it could potentially ruin what is the best FM in years.

[Platinum]

15 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

100% agree with everything you've said.

I said earlier there were two different conversations on this thread and I don't think either side of any argument would disagree with what you have just said here.

The AI appears to have as much idea as any of us how best to deal with it by the looks of it 😂

 

28 minutes ago, AllyJoseph said:

I don't think having a hard Brexit with next to no foreigners coming is a bad thing or needs changing, but the rest of the game needs tweeking to accommodate that, a few problems I can see at the minute are these...

1. My suggested players from scouts are just full of players I can't get because of WP issues, this has made my scouting team almost redundant. The press tell me when players are unlikely to get work permits following their research, but my scouting team doesn't?
2. Big clubs are still signing young foreign kids, which is fine, but they then proceed to not play them for 3 seasons, they fail to get a wp and then are sold on at a loss or released. Is that really how it'd work in real life?
3. Young talent is still ridiculously overpriced making it almost impossible to buy British players anyway, my Prem is full of really weird players in the side or actual internationals without work permits being left to rot.
4. Club visions aren't taking this change into account, sign players under X age, players under X age have inflated prices or can't get WP's, this leads to you failing your club vision.

I think just brushing it off as "well this is what is going to be like" does the actual problems a dis-service, it's not simply a case of Brexit's rubbish...which it is...but it's also reality. But in reality, the above things wouldn't happen.

 

Well heres to hoping they solve this by the time the game is released, otherwise that truly is game breaking.

(As a side note having next to no foreign players is not realistic and if you follow the news was never on the cards on anyones side, the prem, fa or government. The government restarting football and carrying it on during lockdown is a sign of how important it is to the countries economy. Also common sense tells us that mect to no foreigners will mean the premier league will lose popularity and in a pot Covid world that makes no sense for anyone)

[Platinum]

4 minutes ago, AllyJoseph said:

That's where I clock out of the debate tbh and say the "take it out" guys win. If it can not be implemented without it being a mess, it needs to be taken out until it works. I've got Man City selling me wonderkids for 500k whilst simultaneously hoarding 18 year old Brazilians they bought for 50m that they'll never play. I've got League Two level players starting in the Prem, I've got Championship level players being bought and sold for 30m+, I've got internationals being refused work permits, I've got scouts who can't scout, directors of football who can't direct. There really feels like a huge swelling of support for SI, which they deserve, and a lot of people are definitely brushing it off as "meh, but its brexit", on the flip side, there is a group of people who are also going "grrr arg, I want to sign the 24 year old Armenian to play a bit part in my squad!" which is also unreasonable.

I've read a lot of stuff on Brexit from SI since it first came into play, I've always been on their side, its annoying but its a fact of life. I think this time though they've got very caught up in the "but this will happen" argument that they've forgotten that it's caused knock on effects that definitely won't happen. Until that can be balanced in a way that isn't totally game breaking or immersion breaking, it needs to be taken out or at least toned down significantly.

Basically, I see Brexit as a bug atm, and that's not really fair on the Brexit feature which is actually pretty good. I hope they fix it for full release, but I doubt it'll change until the Transfer Window patch which will be a crying shame as it could potentially ruin what is the best FM in years.

Agreed. This is it. I doubt it will be solved too, it's a massive job to fix and it's a shame because it's such a game breaker, more than any other bug I've encountered in this game.

 

Actually the more I think about it its actually unacceptable to release a game as broken as that. So I have faith that SI will have it fixed by Tuesday.

Edited November 21, 2020 by francis#17
Extra info

[AllyJoseph]

2 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

 

Well heres to hoping they solve this by the time the game is released, otherwise that truly is game breaking.

(As a side note having next to no foreign players is not realistic and if you follow the news was never on the cards on anyones side, the prem, fa or government. The government restarting football and carrying it on during lockdown is a sign of how important it is to the countries economy. Also common sense tells us that mect to no foreigners will mean the premier league will lose popularity and in a pot Covid world that makes no sense for anyone)

I accept and agree that the reality of it will be there will be some concessions, however I can also see this working, my prem is still littered with foreigners. I don't think anyone would kick up a stink if 18 year old Brazilian or Colombian didn't get a work permit in real life unless they played for a huge side in Europe. Players who are world class or have huge potential, or just very good and playing regularly, they are still joining the sides in the Prem. It's just there's going to be less unearthing hidden gems, which I think is a realistic outcome.

I can't think of the last time a Prem side signed a player straight from a Colombian league side, or South African league side etc and they went onto be incredible. We have always filtered players through France, Germany, Spain, Italy...occasionally we get the brightest talents from Croatia or following a good u21/u23 tournament you may see the odd player making the leap. In the main if we do have players from unusual places, it tends to be because they've been pinched from an academy before 16.

So with all that being said, if they went ahead and stuck with the current work permit rules they have got in place, I'd be ok with it....just so long as they fixed everything else that it impacts that make playing in the Prem un-playable.

[Platinum]

1 minute ago, AllyJoseph said:

I accept and agree that the reality of it will be there will be some concessions, however I can also see this working, my prem is still littered with foreigners. I don't think anyone would kick up a stink if 18 year old Brazilian or Colombian didn't get a work permit in real life unless they played for a huge side in Europe. Players who are world class or have huge potential, or just very good and playing regularly, they are still joining the sides in the Prem. It's just there's going to be less unearthing hidden gems, which I think is a realistic outcome.

I can't think of the last time a Prem side signed a player straight from a Colombian league side, or South African league side etc and they went onto be incredible. We have always filtered players through France, Germany, Spain, Italy...occasionally we get the brightest talents from Croatia or following a good u21/u23 tournament you may see the odd player making the leap. In the main if we do have players from unusual places, it tends to be because they've been pinched from an academy before 16.

So with all that being said, if they went ahead and stuck with the current work permit rules they have got in place, I'd be ok with it....just so long as they fixed everything else that it impacts that make playing in the Prem un-playable.

Defo agree with you that not being able to get obscure players from South Africa or Columbia is no problem at all. 

In your game are you not experiencing the issues the person above mentioned with the club vision issues, extortionate fees etc? I think theres a bug tbh so it might have affected you differently. How far are you into your save?

[AllyJoseph]

18 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

Defo agree with you that not being able to get obscure players from South Africa or Columbia is no problem at all. 

In your game are you not experiencing the issues the person above mentioned with the club vision issues, extortionate fees etc? I think theres a bug tbh so it might have affected you differently. How far are you into your save?

I'm in 2025, this will be my first season in the Prem so my vision isn't that bad.

I'm getting a varied mix of fees, but on the main, if I want young English talent...or just British players in general, I'm looking at 30m+. For World Class, it's 100m+. An example I would use is probably Jude Soonsup-Bell from Chelsea, he is 21 and spent two seasons on loan at my club in the Championship. Chelsea are asking for 51m for him, he's never going to play, he's not even that good, he was valued at 475k when he joined me, his value is now 20m and I think that in itself is ridiculous but w/e. So now they're going to let him sit in their reserves for 2 seasons and then he'll be released.

Now compare that James McAtee at City, they have just accepted a 2.2m bid for him from me, he was also on loan last season in the Championship to promoted Norwich. He was 2nd top goalscorer of the league and is a miles better player, he is 1 year older and that's about it. That's a 49m discrepancy between the players, it's crazy for two players who will 100% both be reserves for their entire career to be worth such varying amounts following very similar seasons.

Now add to that strange signings because of the limitations, Premier League Brentford bought Bristol Rovers center back Alfie Kilgour? Stern Irvine from Notts County? Andy Irving from Hearts? Brighton spent 20m on two Championship players who are average Championship players. Aaron Hickey for 27.5m to Liverpool? United have RESIGNED Januzaj....it's just crazy, if you are British that's it, you are in and you are worth a premium.

Ben Knight played 32 games and is Leicesters starting AMC, he is worth 13m and his crossing stat is 8, his long shots is 10. He's fairly poor all round with a few stand out Premier League level stats. This is one of the best teams in the best league in the world. Definitely not realistic.

Edited November 21, 2020 by AllyJoseph

[Platinum]

6 minutes ago, AllyJoseph said:

I'm in 2025, this will be my first season in the Prem so my vision isn't that bad.

I'm getting a varied mix of fees, but on the main, if I want young English talent...or just British players in general, I'm looking at 30m+. For World Class, it's 100m+. An example I would use is probably Jude Soonsup-Bell from Chelsea, he is 21 and spent two seasons on loan at my club in the Championship. Chelsea are asking for 51m for him, he's never going to play, he's not even that good, he was valued at 475k when he joined me, his value is now 20m and I think that in itself is ridiculous but w/e. So now they're going to let him sit in their reserves for 2 seasons and then he'll be released.

Now compare that James McAtee at City, they have just accepted a 2.2m bid for him from me, he was also on loan last season in the Championship to promoted Norwich. He was 2nd top goalscorer of the league and is a miles better player, he is 1 year older and that's about it. That's a 49m discrepancy between the players, it's crazy for two players who will 100% both be reserves for their entire career to be worth such varying amounts following very similar seasons.

Now add to that strange signings because of the limitations, Premier League Brentford bought Bristol Rovers center back Alfie Kilgour? Stern Irvine from Notts County? Andy Irving from Hearts? Brighton spent 20m on two Championship players who are average Championship players. Aaron Hickey for 27.5m to Liverpool? United have RESIGNED Januzaj....it's just crazy, if you are British that's it, you are in and you are worth a premium.

Yeah this is really broken. Someone from SI should come in here and at least acknowledge it's an issue they are looking at.

I realy do hope its solved by release date as we cant really be paying for a product that's broken to this extent.

Edited November 21, 2020 by francis#17
Typo

[improvox]

2 hours ago, Crispypaul said:

Harsh because it seems pretty inconsistent with other countries where there are similar restrictions on foreign players. Unless that has changed for FM21 on which case fair enough.

Admittedly I couldn't tell you the reasons for all other countries restrictions on foreign players. Although I'm sure in some cases its the governing FA setting the restrictions, to protect homegrown players and the national team. In the case of Brexit the final say doesn't sit with the Premier League or the FA. Its with the government. Its bigger than FM21, its bigger than football, its bigger than elite sports....  It will affect all of us in one way or another. 

 

Also. Sorry of my previous sounded arsey, I didn't mean it to. Lol. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by improvox

[Junkhead]

19 minutes ago, improvox said:

Also. Sorry of my previous sounded arsey, I didn't mean it to. Lol. 

It didn't come across like that, but this is a constant problem I have to the point where I just stop responding because I'm doing my own head in lol. Don't worry, you were fine I reckon.

Some things that people are seeing in their games are clearly crazy and it can't possibly be working as intended - @AllyJosephhave you logged owt in the bugs forum re your save?

It's going to be difficult for SI to filter out the actual issue here because they will have to sift through people kicking off because they just want to be able to sign who they want before they find decent examples.

Want to make clear when I kept saying people were in for a shock re. The way things would go - don't think it will get so bad that Premier League clubs will have no option but to sign Andy Irving & Alfie Kilgour in real life (no disrespect, suppose you never know)!

However the example someone gave earlier - if Steven Bergwijn ended up making hardly any appearances for Spurs, spent time on loan in Denmark because he couldn't get a game, and wasn't being called up by his country, I'm pretty comfortable that he wouldn't get a work permit at renewal. He wouldn't meet the criteria. 

And this is the issue SI are going to have if they need community assistance to resolve the issue. Some people are completely unrealistic in respect of what things will look like and think people are scaremongering.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Junkhead

[Synthespian]

Is it therefore a "not great design choice" that the scouts cannot be told to only look for players who qualify for UK work permits?

[Junkhead]

1 minute ago, Synthespian said:

Is it therefore a "not great design choice" that the scouts cannot be told to only look for players who qualify for UK work permits?

100%

[Ruskin]

1 minute ago, Synthespian said:

Is it therefore a "not great design choice" that the scouts cannot be told to only look for players who qualify for UK work permits?

Totally this.  If Brexit is going to be cobbled into the game, then for Pete's sake straighten the scouting out.

[AllyJoseph]

10 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

It didn't come across like that, but this is a constant problem I have to the point where I just stop responding because I'm doing my own head in lol. Don't worry, you were fine I reckon.

Some things that people are seeing in their games are clearly crazy and it can't possibly be working as intended - @AllyJosephhave you logged owt in the bugs forum re your save?

It's going to be difficult for SI to filter out the actual issue here because they will have to sift through people kicking off because they just want to be able to sign who they want before they find decent examples.

Want to make clear when I kept saying people were in for a shock re. The way things would go - don't think it will get so bad that Premier League clubs will have no option but to sign Andy Irving & Alfie Kilgour in real life (no disrespect, suppose you never know)!

However the example someone gave earlier - if Steven Bergwijn ended up making hardly any appearances for Spurs, spent time on loan in Denmark because he couldn't get a game, and wasn't being called up by his country, I'm pretty comfortable that he wouldn't get a work permit at renewal. He wouldn't meet the criteria. 

And this is the issue SI are going to have if they need community assistance to resolve the issue. Some people are completely unrealistic in respect of what things will look like and think people are scaremongering.

I've mentioned the scouting system issue on the bugs forum as that's clearly a bug. The other stuff I'm sure will get brushed off as "thats how it be", so I didn't bother, I would like SI's take on things though but they seem pretty entrenched on defending the Brexit feature. Its one of them where they were right to defend it, but now they may miss the point that it's actually broken, I think that's how a few comments I've read on here come across as.

It was me about Bergwijn, I think I didn't articulate the point as well as I should have done. I was told 1,5k contract would secure him enough points, he was on 39k...which is more than 1.5k...he failed the work permit application. The season prior I signed Danilo Pereira from Jong Ajax who has spent 16 games on loan at FC Twente and 0 caps for Brazi, no issues for his work permit. It's barmy and inconsistent. So whilst I agree he probably wouldn't get a work permit (although a full season of UCL/Danish Football is pretty high level stuff tbf), I still feel like it would need that sort of consistency throughout the game.

[Nonlondoner]

9 hours ago, Euroguy said:

Is it also realism to have a manager that's 300 years old?

Or brexit being a thing the next 100 years?

 

Nope

Well, if we're going down that route around 30 English League grounds will be under water in 200 years so WHY HAVEN'T SI THOUGHT ABOUT THAT huh?  They're useless.

Strangely the implosion of Gamma X087a in  2178 is included and is accurately shown in 2562 when the light created from the big event arrives here on earth. 

[Crispypaul]

3 hours ago, Junkhead said:

People seem to be basing what might happen here on what happens elsewhere. This is where I think people are going to be surprised.

 

I actually have no problem with the staff requiring a Continental C licence for UK leagues as that is probably as close as you're going to get in game to reach an appropriate level for a visa to be obtained IRL.

My point is whether countries that have also quite tough visa requirements IRL are going to have the same approach in game. Something I'll have a quick test for curiosity, probably with Australia.

[Platinum]

If it's not solved by release I'll just go with the no Brexit mod or make a version of Brexit that wont break the game

Edited November 22, 2020 by francis#17

[Mcfc1894]

On 15/11/2020 at 14:20, City1904 said:

I have finished the first season with Burnley and thought I would give my experience so far on the Work Permit's "issue" rather than rely on hearsay. 

 

Work Permits Approved

Esteban Andrada - 4.2m - Argentinian with 5 Caps

Caicara - Brazilian - Free Agent - 0  Caps previously playing in Turkey

Mike Maignan - 0 Caps - Lille - 5.2m

Jerome Onguene - 9 Caps - Salzburg 3.7m 

Antony - Ajax - 14.1m - 0 Caps 

 

Rejected

Matias Arezo - Wonderkid from Argentina

Boubakary Soumare - 3.2m - Lille - 0 caps

 

So as you can, see this is hardly making the game unplayable. Arezo is a prime example of a wonderkid who I can't bring in, but realistically Burnley haven't signed any wonderkids in a long time and tbh, I knew before I was going to sign him it would be impossible.

Both Arezo and Soumare I knew before making any bids I couldn't sign them, and I was told when I then offered them contracts, but I wanted to see what the process was like so I carried on.

Personally I have found it very realistic and it has not had any detrimental impact on my game. I appreciate if you play in a different manner (Less realistic one potentially) it may impact your games, but as I am managing Burnley, a middling English team I am still able to sign a lot of players.

Soumare plays regulary for Lille in the French league which is surely at least top 5 rep

[Junkhead]

Found the below article (hope links are ok?) which appears to be accurate & explains things in more detail.  From a law firm so one would assume they know what they are on about.

https://latitudelaw.com/news/the-fas-policy-on-non-eu-football-players-and-possible-implications-following-brexit

Edited November 22, 2020 by Junkhead
This is for non-EU footballers as things stand at this point, but of course we are still in the transition period.

[HowzatFM]

1 hour ago, Junkhead said:

Found the below article (hope links are ok?) which appears to be accurate & explains things in more detail.  From a law firm so one would assume they know what they are on about.

https://latitudelaw.com/news/the-fas-policy-on-non-eu-football-players-and-possible-implications-following-brexit

It’s good information! However good to see they share the same concerns in the last 2 paragraphs:

The restriction of EU players is also likely to have a detrimental affect on the English Premier League from a commercial standpoint.  With a more restrictive approach to European talent, we’re likely to see a decline in the standard of football in the Premier League.

It is therefore likely that there will be considerable pressure from UK clubs on the Home Office and the FA to make the necessary concessions to allow for such recruitment to be as unfettered as possible.

 

[Domathon]

1 hour ago, benhoward12 said:

It’s good information! However good to see they share the same concerns in the last 2 paragraphs:

The restriction of EU players is also likely to have a detrimental affect on the English Premier League from a commercial standpoint.  With a more restrictive approach to European talent, we’re likely to see a decline in the standard of football in the Premier League.

It is therefore likely that there will be considerable pressure from UK clubs on the Home Office and the FA to make the necessary concessions to allow for such recruitment to be as unfettered as possible.

 

This make me hopeful, but for now we can all enjoy signing all foreign talent to Germany I think 🤔 

[HowzatFM]

1 minute ago, Domathon said:

This make me hopeful, but for now we can all enjoy signing all foreign talent to Germany I think 🤔 

For now we have no choice, just a shame there is such a hard Brexit currently implemented in the game 

[Darragh1992]

1 hour ago, benhoward12 said:

It’s good information! However good to see they share the same concerns in the last 2 paragraphs:

The restriction of EU players is also likely to have a detrimental affect on the English Premier League from a commercial standpoint.  With a more restrictive approach to European talent, we’re likely to see a decline in the standard of football in the Premier League.

It is therefore likely that there will be considerable pressure from UK clubs on the Home Office and the FA to make the necessary concessions to allow for such recruitment to be as unfettered as possible.

 

This! brexit was about stopping low paid workers coming in not athletes earning thousands of pounds a week contributing thousands to the tax system, In my game in the scottish prem I cant sign guys on 6 grand a week, top earners, are we really to believe the scottish/british governemnt are going to refuse that?

[Junkhead]

9 minutes ago, Darragh1992 said:

This! brexit was about stopping low paid workers coming in not athletes earning thousands of pounds a week contributing thousands to the tax system, In my game in the scottish prem I cant sign guys on 6 grand a week, top earners, are we really to believe the scottish/british governemnt are going to refuse that?

Do all top athletes pay tax in this country then?

Genuine question (and probably off topic so mods delete if required!) I wouldn't be so sure. There are loopholes which we have already learned that business owners and politicians allegedly exploit.

I don't know why sports people wouldn't be the same but who knows.