Brexit in FM21

[JordanMilly]

1 minute ago, benhoward12 said:

Sorry! My bad! Thanks for your work!! 

No worries. SI have replied to the bug reports on the rules saying the leagues with squad registration have a 17 foreign player limit rather than the current work permit rules, and said that it's a known issue. I'm just trying to find out if the known issue is the work permit rules then being applied anyway, or the rules saying they replace the work permit rules, and both should apply.

It is a bit unclear, and I think it'd help everyone to know what should actually be happening.

[HowzatFM]

Just now, JordanMillward_1 said:

No worries. SI have replied to the bug reports on the rules saying the leagues with squad registration have a 17 foreign player limit rather than the current work permit rules, and said that it's a known issue. I'm just trying to find out if the known issue is the work permit rules then being applied anyway, or the rules saying they replace the work permit rules, and both should apply.

It is a bit unclear, and I think it'd help everyone to know what should actually be happening.

Yeah definitely is a bit unclear! The wording doesn’t make much sense 

[Platinum]

16 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

No worries. SI have replied to the bug reports on the rules saying the leagues with squad registration have a 17 foreign player limit rather than the current work permit rules, and said that it's a known issue. I'm just trying to find out if the known issue is the work permit rules then being applied anyway, or the rules saying they replace the work permit rules, and both should apply.

It is a bit unclear, and I think it'd help everyone to know what should actually be happening.

Thanks, it would be extremely helpful if SI could make a statement saying what the Brexit rules mean in practical terms. There is too much confusion here imo when it could all be cleared up with an official statement.

Edited November 20, 2020 by francis#17
Typo

[-Jef-]

I mean, Miles did say that the scenarios put in FM19/20 were being shown to government and football governing bodies to showcase what impact they will have and to assume that this one is "fake"? Rubbish. I think they are in the loop as much as possible especially since they can churn out insane number of simulations to show how these different restrictions could influence english football. 

[CM]

38 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Nope, because they've indicated the strictness of work permits isn't a bug. Considering I've still been able to bring in foreign players in my Liverpool save, I don't 100% believe that people are getting "NO FOREIGN PLAYERS ALLOWED AT ALL EVER", you just can't bring in whoever you want like you used to.

However, what might be a bug is whether leagues where you have squad registration needing work permits in the first place:

I'm trying to find out what the situation is so you guys know what's going on 

So, is it not a bug when we buy players that shouldn't get a work permit and then after six months without even playing for their national teams they get one after an appeal? Because in this way (although I don't like wp rules in the game I've got to play like it is because otherwise I feel like I'm cheating) there would be no point of having wp rules in long term.

[JordanMilly]

16 minutes ago, CM said:

So, is it not a bug when we buy players that shouldn't get a work permit and then after six months without even playing for their national teams they get one after an appeal? Because in this way (although I don't like wp rules in the game I've got to play like it is because otherwise I feel like I'm cheating) there would be no point of having wp rules in long term.

Reread what I posted, because what you just said isn't what I said.

[Guest]

My scouts I recommending (mostly) players I can never play because of WP rules.

My DoF is trying to buy players that will never play because of WP rules.

Since this is a single player game, I would SI to include an option to turn WP off so _I_ can choose to access more players (more than a few % it seems) and still manage my favourite English team - without having to resort to the almighty in-game editor when it becomes available.

 

[CM]

17 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Reread what I posted, because what you just said isn't what I said.

To avoid any misunderstanding here, the guy above asked what I said and you replied about strictness of wp rules? He asked whether or not players getting a wp after an appeal is a bug. I'm also interetested in that.

[JordanMilly]

I've been advised that it should read that "British leagues which have squad registrations will now use a 17 foreign player limit", and "all foreign players joining British clubs will require work permits to be able to play" - so the error is that the rule currently suggests the 17 foreign player rule should replace the work permit system.

15 minutes ago, bringbacklilnux said:

My scouts I recommending (mostly) players I can never play because of WP rules.

My DoF is trying to buy players that will never play because of WP rules.

Since this is a single player game, I would SI to include an option to turn WP off so _I_ can choose to access more players (more than a few % it seems) and still manage my favourite English team - without having to resort to the almighty in-game editor when it becomes available.

 

As stated in this thread, there is no plan to include such an option, the same way they don't include an option to turn off Italy/Spain/France/etc's non-EU player restrictions.

 

[Guest]

Wonder why?

Seems a bit heavy handed for a single player game.

Must play our way or no way.... interesting.

But thanks, I missed that post.

Pre-ordering is alway a (small) risk.

(I think the Brexit rules are still speculative, however well founded, which is different to other WP rules.).

Edited November 20, 2020 by Guest

[Junkhead]

2 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

The financial pressure of football. I’m not saying rules won’t be restrictive, but not to this level currently in FM. Nobody actually knows what will happen

My understanding is that the way things are Iooking at the moment, that is what the football authorities are preparing for.  The game rightly reflects this.

You might be right that it doesn't end up staying like this, but given how close it is, I would suggest that things will proceed that way until the end of the season at least.

I might be wrong, and the game should rightly be updated at the time.

[Yer Maw]

4 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Are you sure? It was possible in previous games.

No it wasn’t.

[Platinum]

3 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

I've been advised that it should read that "British leagues which have squad registrations will now use a 17 foreign player limit", and "all foreign players joining British clubs will require work permits to be able to play" - so the error is that the rule currently suggests the 17 foreign player rule should replace the work permit system.

As stated in this thread, there is no plan to include such an option, the same way they don't include an option to turn off Italy/Spain/France/etc's non-EU player restrictions.

 

It sounds like some people are getting inconsistent results with a work permit being permitted. That's where I was wondering where a bug might be present. Is this correct?

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, Yer Maw said:

No it wasn’t.

👍

 

[CM]

26 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

It sounds like some people are getting inconsistent results with a work permit being permitted. That's where I was wondering where a bug might be present. Is this correct?

The bug me and also @benhoward12 have experienced is that after refusal of first application you can easily get work permit after 6 months. It means that new work permit system in the game is for just 6 months only. it surely is a bug.

[Platinum]

1 minute ago, CM said:

The bug me and also @benhoward12 have experienced is that after refusal of first application you can easily get work permit after 6 months. It means that new work permit system in the game is for just 6 months only. it surely is a bug.

The question is should the player have been accepted in the first place or should he have never been accepted at all.

[CM]

Just now, francis#17 said:

The question is should the player have been accepted in the first place or should he have never been accepted at all.

I mean, in my case between first and second application not single one of my players has been called to national team. So I believe they should not have granted work permit.

[Platinum]

 

1 minute ago, CM said:

I mean, in my case between first and second application not single one of my players has been called to national team. So I believe they should not have granted work permit.

Did your staff expect a work permit to be accepted in the first place? I thought being called up to the national team was just one out of a set of criteria and that if they had enough points in the other criteria they wouldnt need the national team call ups.

[Platinum]

I think SI should release an official statement telling us in practical terms what the new rules will mean. What types of players can we and cant we expect to buy with some real life examples of transfers that wouldnt be able to happen anymore.

 

@JordanMillward_1 could you ask SI to release a statement on what the rules mean in practical terms please as this is a major change for the vast majority of players for how transfers will work.

[Junkhead]

Just now, francis#17 said:

I think SI should release an official statement telling us in practical terms what the new rules will mean. What types of players can we and cant we expect to buy with some real life examples of transfers that wouldnt be able to happen anymore.

 

@JordanMillward_1 could you ask SI to release a statement on what the rules mean in practical terms please as this is a major change for the vast majority of players for how transfers will work.

SI announcing the new post brexit transfer rules before either the FA or the Government would be 2020 in a nutshell if we're honest 😂

[CM]

1 minute ago, francis#17 said:

 

Did your staff expect a work permit to be accepted in the first place? I thought being called up to the national team was just one out of a set of criteria and that if they had enough points in the other criteria they wouldnt need the national team call ups.

I was talking about players as you can still buy them but they won't be able to play. The thing is nothing changes in 6 months but all of a sudden they manage to get a work permit after appeal. As regarding staff, if they are rejected there is no way of appealing second time so you can't bring new stuff if their work permit is rejected. 

[cris182]

3 hours ago, Yer Maw said:

No it wasn’t.

You keep saying this in threads and keep being proven wrong

[Platinum]

1 hour ago, CM said:

I was talking about players as you can still buy them but they won't be able to play. The thing is nothing changes in 6 months but all of a sudden they manage to get a work permit after appeal. As regarding staff, if they are rejected there is no way of appealing second time so you can't bring new stuff if their work permit is rejected. 

Yeah Im talking about the players too, I'm saying I thought that national team callups was only one of the criteria for players and if you have enough points in other areas the national call ups dont matter. If that is true then maybe the players should have been accepted in the first place

[CM]

1 minute ago, francis#17 said:

Yeah Im talking about the players too, I'm saying I thought that national team callups was only one of the criteria for players and if you have enough points in other areas the national call ups dont matter. If that is true then maybe the players should have been accepted in the first place

It probably is one of the criteria as you say. Another one I believe is league reputation, but honestly, do not know how it works. When try to get a new player you see a warning sign indicating that he would probably fail to get a work permit. 

[Kharn6]

The fact the Brexit rules RE football in the UK isnt set in stone, should suggest that SI shouldnt just be going the hard brexit assumption that every single foreign player will require a WP.

TBH it draws all the fun out the game for me because it makes going smaller teams with lesser budgets crap, because you cant sign any foreign talent. period. Cant even sign some top foreign talent and prospects with bigger teams either.

Wish id have known beforehand tbh, dropped £35 on a game im most likely not going to be playing or putting time into because of it. And not even introducing an option to turn it off?

Im hoping the DB editor will allow me to amend it or turn it off, otherwise its Ruined for me, personally. Money wasted.

[Junkhead]

12 minutes ago, Kharn6 said:

The fact the Brexit rules RE football in the UK isnt set in stone, should suggest that SI shouldnt just be going the hard brexit assumption that every single foreign player will require a WP

You do realise that in reality we are six weeks away from the end of the transition period with no significant trade deal, let alone indication that we will be working with countries in respect of free or even relaxed labour rules?

I think it's fair to say that a "hard brexit" is now am absolute certainty.

[Pantelas]

It is even documented on video now on youtube, i don't think i'm allowed to share, but obviously everyone can do a search, that the work-permit system is clearly broken, just having to wait for 120 days and all work permits for promising youth are granted. 

I really hope this is sorted in the final release.

[Gingerdilligaf]

On 14/11/2020 at 02:16, kiwityke said:

I suspect the system as implemented is so restrictive that nobody actually passes the work permit test in FM21. I've yet to see a single player my scouts say would pass as yet.

When I have time I will holiday 5 then 10 years into the future and count how many foreigners are in the Premier league and championship at the start of the game, 5 years in and then 10.

I suspect by 10 years in it will be close to almost zero.

I have to say I agree. Managing Forest & after an injury crisis I'm struggling to find a decent striker. Thought I'd plump for Pato or Balotelli as a short term solution but no chance since brexit. I'm basically ruled out of signing any foreigners unless they are top class internationals. My options to continue my promotion push are lower league rejects on free transfers or 17yr olds on loan deals.

[Yer Maw]

1 hour ago, cris182 said:

You keep saying this in threads and keep being proven wrong

Nobody has shown me otherwise with the pre game editors.

[Kharn6]

1 hour ago, Junkhead said:

You do realise that in reality we are six weeks away from the end of the transition period with no significant trade deal, let alone indication that we will be working with countries in respect of free or even relaxed labour rules?

I think it's fair to say that a "hard brexit" is now am absolute certainty.

Yes, I'm aware of that. However, Do we know for certain what that will entail for Football in the UK, has those terms and rules been outlined or published anywhere?

Because either SI have inside information or created these rules based on an assumption.

In either case, the option to turn it off should be available.

[Jonthedon26]

I have just got to January 2021 and been hit with the dreaded work permit rules. I am Birmingham City, on the scouting screen there is a total of 1479 players on the transfer list who are interested in a transfer, only 350 dont require a WP, 11 WP likely and 0 work permit after appeal. Seems pretty low to me and with 0 likely to get a WP after an appeal it makes me wonder if the process is working as intended.

[Kharn6]

1 hour ago, Jonthedon26 said:

I have just got to January 2021 and been hit with the dreaded work permit rules. I am Birmingham City, on the scouting screen there is a total of 1479 players on the transfer list who are interested in a transfer, only 350 dont require a WP, 11 WP likely and 0 work permit after appeal. Seems pretty low to me and with 0 likely to get a WP after an appeal it makes me wonder if the process is working as intended.

Honestly mate, its dreadful, Makes playing as lower league teams or clubs with stricter budgets a bore cause you cant sign anyone.

[kiwityke]

1 hour ago, Gingerdilligaf said:

I have to say I agree. Managing Forest & after an injury crisis I'm struggling to find a decent striker. Thought I'd plump for Pato or Balotelli as a short term solution but no chance since brexit. I'm basically ruled out of signing any foreigners unless they are top class internationals. My options to continue my promotion push are lower league rejects on free transfers or 17yr olds on loan deals.

After playing on for a few seasons I can say for certain it is working as advertised. Signing foreigners is difficult and frustrating but not impossible. I've even managed to get players who have zero international experience but its total pot luck as to whether they pass the nebulous bars they have to get over to get a WP.

For instance signed an uncapped German from Portugal for 1.4 million zero issues. Yet cant sign a wonder kid from Anderlecht on a free...go figure.

[samdiatmh]

15 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

After playing on for a few seasons I can say for certain it is working as advertised. Signing foreigners is difficult and frustrating but not impossible. I've even managed to get players who have zero international experience but its total pot luck as to whether they pass the nebulous bars they have to get over to get a WP.

For instance signed an uncapped German from Portugal for 1.4 million zero issues. Yet cant sign a wonder kid from Anderlecht on a free...go figure.

at the start of FM21

Portuguese top flight - ranked 6th overall
Belgian top flight - ranked 8th overall

 

given that one of the WP rules is based on league reputation (and league appearances), then provide details
a German in Portugal will likely be getting gametime, which I wouldn't argue the Belgian "wonderkid on a free" is (I mean.. he'll be a free transfer for a reason)
plus you also need to look at the league reputation, and the Portuguese top division being ranked higher than the Belgian one will also provide in his favour

the game openly tells you this information, so are you just ignoring these rules and attempting to sign whoever? because you're bound to run into some issues - your lack of understanding doesn't make it "pot luck"

Edited November 21, 2020 by samdiatmh

[CJG21]

I'm enjoying the challenge this year in the PL because of the Brexit rules. From the sounds of it people are just annoyed that they can't sign every South American 18 year old and put zero effort in scouting or squad building. 

It's much harder to sign high potential teenagers with no experience, but I've signed plenty of 21-24 year olds with limited international caps for low money who improve my team. I'm also enjoying signing young English players from the EFL (there's value if you look hard enough), which is something I hadn't done much of in previous years.

People just need to expand their scouting pools and look in different places. And if you don't fancy the challenge, you can always just manage in the Bundesliga where there aren't any rules.

These are my second season signings and there's only 1 player with more than 15 international caps. If you increase your shortlist from just "Top FM Wonderkids" you'll definitely be able to find talent that can get work permits.

 

[mattskelding]

13 hours ago, Yer Maw said:

Not possible.

I downloaded an edt file for FM20 - I’m sure there will be a FM21 version once the full game comes out 

[kiwityke]

5 hours ago, samdiatmh said:

at the start of FM21

Portuguese top flight - ranked 6th overall
Belgian top flight - ranked 8th overall

 

given that one of the WP rules is based on league reputation (and league appearances), then provide details
a German in Portugal will likely be getting gametime, which I wouldn't argue the Belgian "wonderkid on a free" is (I mean.. he'll be a free transfer for a reason)
plus you also need to look at the league reputation, and the Portuguese top division being ranked higher than the Belgian one will also provide in his favour

the game openly tells you this information, so are you just ignoring these rules and attempting to sign whoever? because you're bound to run into some issues - your lack of understanding doesn't make it "pot luck"

Yep I've seen the incredibly vague and incredibly unhelpful rules list.

My lack of understanding is purely because the game barely tells me anything about the weighting of reputation, appearances etc. How many points a player even has to get to get a work permit either. Or how it goes about calculating that...

Also nope I'm not just going after anyone they were just 2 players I was tracking 1 could get a work permit ther other couldn't.

If the game actually fleshed out the rules with some form of detail it wouldn't be pot luck.

Thanks for the condescending reply it was fully appreciated.

 

[ATV]

Just download a no-brexit editor data, or change it in the editor (when the full game is out) - and then start a new save. It's your game, you paid for it - play it how you want.

 

I usually sign as many regens as I can in early seasons - if I don't follow my own advice above and play the standard version of the game then my idea of promoting foreign youth will be hard, probably impossible, therefore it'll be about signing proven players - the average age of match squads will probably go through the roof.

[ATV]

6 hours ago, mattskelding said:

I downloaded an edt file for FM20 - I’m sure there will be a FM21 version once the full game comes out 

bound to be - it'll be easy to edit. 

[Viking]

20 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

There's only one Brexit scenario in FM21, and the changes to squad registration and work permits are based on what the FA is currently planning on implementing in England from the 1st January 2021. You get notified of the impending changes in approx October, and the rules in the league rules sections are updated from 1st January 2021.

So there's only one set of work permits and rule changes, and baring any major changes IRL, it's likely what will happen IRL too. I imagine, once the FA have formally announced the new rules prior to the January 2021 transfer window, if they're different to the ones in FM, they'd be updated in the Winter Database Update.

Are you sure? Another moderator said in the feedback thread that there are differents scenarios when I asked.

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, Viking said:

Are you sure? Another moderator said in the feedback thread that there are differents scenarios when I asked.

That was me and I got that wrong.

[Viking]

8 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

That was me and I got that wrong.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

[BamBamBam]

10 hours ago, Pantelas said:

It is even documented on video now on youtube, i don't think i'm allowed to share, but obviously everyone can do a search, that the work-permit system is clearly broken, just having to wait for 120 days and all work permits for promising youth are granted. 

I really hope this is sorted in the final release.

Yeah i've seen that Video. I wonder if that will still be the case once the full version is released?

[Fritz13]

Question about permits 

A player can qualify for a permit based on international appearances etc after initially failing the criteria.

how can a potential staff member go from failing to get a permit to being able to?
or once they fail to get one that’s it for them for the entire game and they would never qualify for one?

[Domathon]

18 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

No worries. SI have replied to the bug reports on the rules saying the leagues with squad registration have a 17 foreign player limit rather than the current work permit rules, and said that it's a known issue. I'm just trying to find out if the known issue is the work permit rules then being applied anyway, or the rules saying they replace the work permit rules, and both should apply.

It is a bit unclear, and I think it'd help everyone to know what should actually be happening.

I nervously await confirmation on this also thanks for posting 

[Domathon]

The thing with permits getting automatically accepted after 120 days that’s seems like a bug instead of the game code working out if the player has enough points it just accepts.

[Junkhead]

10 hours ago, Kharn6 said:

Yes, I'm aware of that. However, Do we know for certain what that will entail for Football in the UK, has those terms and rules been outlined or published anywhere?

Because either SI have inside information or created these rules based on an assumption.

In either case, the option to turn it off should be available.

We know for certain that there will be restrictions. The telegraph reported 4 days ago that there will be a 15 point work permit process and that the FA had submitted this to the home office for approval.

If this was something that everyone saw as positive, people would be saying that it should be in the game ASAP.

I do appreciate your argument that nothing is officially confirmed, but there is not a chance that football will carry on as it is now re. foreign players in the UK. I think a game releasing six weeks before this change needs to model it somehow. It's a massive change.

Those thinking that things will be ok because there's loads of money in football are wrong, I'm afraid. If this was something that was only affecting football then I'm sure things would be different or moving quicker. In the grand scheme of UK employment law and post brexit finance, it really isn't that big a deal. Big finance, the NHS, import/export businesses, all trying to get sorted and have no idea.

The music industry is in a mess, for example.  Touring musicians are going to find it very difficult to perform across europe after the transition period is over and this brings a considerable amount of money into our economy.

I don't want to turn this discussion into politics, but people are in for a shock in general when the transition period is over.  Football work permit rules are going to be a drop in the ocean when reality hits.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Junkhead
Spelling

[Junkhead]

10 hours ago, Yer Maw said:

Nobody has shown me otherwise with the pre game editors.

I directly linked you to a thread on the official forum where someone had removed Brexit using the official pre game editor.

What are you on with?

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Yer Maw said:

Not possible.

Just found how to do it in fm20 - see link below.

It will very disappointing if SI have become so arrogant, self-referencing, self-important, controlling etc that they have removed the ability to turn off Brexit using the pre-game editor.

Otherwise all is good; and I can play the game my way with relative ease.

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Guest

[signmeupgaffer]

 

With a little bit of help from an editor I reversed the decision. Brexit is something that in my opinion should be optional. As someone just getting back into playing FM on a more regular basis after a few years away from playing I really didn't want to be dealing with Brexit rules.