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Brexit in FM21


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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Yeah, I get that, but I think it should be worded better. It does give the illusion of work permits not being required if you're in a league with squad registrations. 

Yeah, don't disagree. I think it's clear that the WP rules aren't easily understandable within the game to be honest. 

 

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I thought the purpose of the "Australian points based system" that Boris & co have been harping on about for the past few years was to end low skill/low wage immigration. 

Are the government really going to end the transfer of foreign footballers who come over to earn millions a year, and pay 50% tax on that? I very much doubt that.

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On 28/11/2020 at 21:16, DawkeyMender said:

My scouts say Sandro Toneli is unlikely to get a work permit with 11 U21 caps, 3 senior caps for Italy and 106 apps in Serie A, but Kaio Jorge with 0 U21 caps and 0 caps for Brazil and 4 app in Brazilian league will get a permit??  

The game isn't worth playing if this isn't changed

This is my concern and I have had a few instances like this! The specifics of the WP aren't explained in enough detail which leads to cases like this where I feel someone is nailed on for a WP and they don't get one, but then someone who I think doesn't stand a chance does get one. 

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On 28/11/2020 at 13:09, francis#17 said:

I've started a sim to go about 10 years into the future so I can see the effects of Brexit on the games balance. Im currently in December 20204 and these are my findings so far for the Premier League:

  • Foreign players are being signed by all Prem clubs, even some foreigners that are playing in second divisions and players that havent played much
  • Out of the big 6 only Liverpool have signed regens. Those regens included a player from the Brazilian and a player from the Argentinian league. Both players were about 17/18 when they signed and had played 1.5/2 seasons of first team football but only had 2 u20 caps. 
  • I saw a few instances of players being signed and never playing for the club, mostly being sent on loan straight away to EU countries. These weren't young players so it wouldnt have been for playing experience. This is likely due to work permit issues and is a massive waste of the clubs money 
  • I added a manager to take over Arsenal so that I could see if the teams had adjusted scouting with the new work permit rules. This is only one club but it doesnt look good. Out of the 30000 players they had scouted who would need a work permit, only 1000 of them are likely to get a work permit. The problems with this are that it means they are wasting loads of money scouting these players and I can see it leading to team building issues in the future. Ill see how it plays out as on the other hand they might still pump this much money into scouting so that they can find gems like the Brazilian and Argentinian players I mentioned

 

This worries me the most.  Not whether Brexit is implemented correctly or not, but that we have to deal with this terrible AI team building. Do let us know what you see in the future. 

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11 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Yeah, I get that, but I think it should be worded better. It does give the illusion of work permits not being required if you're in a league with squad registrations. 

 

On 13/11/2020 at 03:50, Freddie Sands said:

 

Apologies, I think this is a case of the text being quite unclear here.

The first sentence should end with "instead of the current work permit system", as this implies that the foreign player squad limit is replacing work permits (whereas squad registration and work permits are independent concepts).

The second sentence is meant to refer to British leagues without squad registration and clarify that work permits will be the only means of preventing foreign players from playing in said competitions (as opposed to an additional registration limit on top of work permits being required).

So in summary, every British club post Brexit will still require work permits to sign foreign players - it's just that some also have foreign registration limits on top of this. I will log a bug now to change the text hopefully.

 

To quote the person who created the league issues, apparently it's just a wording issue, rather than a complete workaround - it's the text that's wrong, not the implementation

link to comment: https://community.sigames.com/topic/531297-england-official-league-specific-issues/?tab=comments#comment-12741304

 

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9 hours ago, paddypower said:

I thought the purpose of the "Australian points based system" that Boris & co have been harping on about for the past few years was to end low skill/low wage immigration. 

Are the government really going to end the transfer of foreign footballers who come over to earn millions a year, and pay 50% tax on that? I very much doubt that.

I doubt it too. But here we are, four and a half weeks away, and as things stand that is exactly how it will be.

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5 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

This is slightly putting me off starting my long term save with Man Utd, or will it only really affect smaller UK sides?

Will this be getting tweaked at any point or will it stay as is? 

I would think that as soon as the rules are confirmed IRL, things will be changed in game if they are any different. Every indication is that the game isn't far wrong.

It isn't about the size of the club but on the individual who is being signed. In theory it should have less of an effect on Manchester United than it would Telford United simply because of the wages that will be being paid and the standard of player likely to be involved.

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6 hours ago, StevehFC said:

Another issue here. 

I can't sign a player on loan from Juventus in my save who's italian due to work permit but i can sign a 20 year old Brazilian player from the same squad on a work permit? Makes no sense whatsover. 

 

Depends on the players. With the info you have given, it's not possible to see where the issue is or if there is one.

One player being Italian and one being Brazilian would make no difference assuming we are beyond January 2021 in your save.

Same as a few on here mentioning sending players out on loan to EU clubs - EU or Non EU is now irrelevant.

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I thought I'd chime in with my actual signings since Brexit was implemented within my save
I got the "points" scenario

 

Signing 1: M Matvienko - 17 appearances last season for Shakhtar - Appeared in 7 of 8 games for Ukraine in 2021 - cost ~10m - Got WP
Signing 2: A Akman - 30 appearances last season for Bursaspor - Appeared in 7 of 7 games for Turkey in 2021 - signed on Free - No WP
Signing 3: D Vergara - 15 appearances for America de Cali last season - Appeared in 0 games for Colombia in 2021 - signed for 1m - Got WP (although he fails it at gamestart, so idk how it got approved)
Signing 4: S Lammers - 25 appearances for Atalanta last season - Appeared in 3 of 8 games for Netherlands in 2021 (missed out on their Euro squad) - got WP
Signing 5: D Costa - 17 appearances in 2021 for SEP (Brazilian side), signed in June - Yet to appear for any national team - got WP
Signing 6: M Arezo - 0 appearances before being signed - yet to appear for Uruguay - 21 appearances for Valerenga since signing for me - No WP
Signing 7: R Alvarado - 21 appearances in half-season for Cruz Azul before being signed - only has 23 international appearances (has 20 irl right now, so idk) - Got WP

 

it's not challenging to sign players - although I need to be a bit creative rather than just "pillage Brazil"
still curious into how I got Vergara (15 appearances for a Mexican side? and no international appearances - particularly when he fails the criteria at gamestart) and Costa (although 17 games in half a season for a Brazilian team may have done it)
I'm playing as a midtable Prem side (finished 10th with 51 points last season) - it's not exactly challenging (although I do wish either Akman/Arezo was approved, think Akman is only a matter of time)

it's also a decent challenge because I need to already think about how to replace them (as they'll need to be revalidated for their contract renewal), and I might have some issues with a few of the more challenging options (hopefully they get enough appearances for me to influence the "points" system)

Edited by samdiatmh
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At this point can we at least have a scout telling us how much WP point of a player in the system? It is now like a lottery for me, and it is annoying.

And if possible, please make a "Britain back" possible after 5 or 10 years into the game. It is just a game in the end.

Edited by longruoi1
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13 hours ago, paddypower said:

I thought the purpose of the "Australian points based system" that Boris & co have been harping on about for the past few years was to end low skill/low wage immigration. 

Are the government really going to end the transfer of foreign footballers who come over to earn millions a year, and pay 50% tax on that? I very much doubt that.

It is not about the immigration. WP is hard in English football because FA has control of the point system. FA wants the clubs to raise quality English players for the national team, so it uses the WP system to limit young foreign talents in the clubs. 

IRL, the big clubs are pushing FA heavily for a favorable WP scheme after Brexit. Just wait for a month and see, but I doubt that it would be the nonsense in FM. 

Edited by longruoi1
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17 minutes ago, longruoi1 said:

It is not about the immigration. WP is hard in English football because FA has control of the point system. FA wants the clubs to raise quality English players for the national team, so it uses the WP system to limit young foreign talents in the clubs. 

IRL, the big clubs are pushing FA heavily for a favorable WP scheme after Brexit. Just wait for a month and see, but I doubt that it would be the nonsense in FM. 

It is about the immigration though. As part of the EU there was freedom of movement so the FA couldn't restrict European footballers right to work here. With Brexit we no longer have freedom of movement hence the issues in game now.

I would imagine the FA would default to their stance on Non-EU players regarding work permits, which is pretty much a non-issue for Premier League clubs. The likes of Firmino and Coutinho have arrived in England and gotten work permits prior to being regulars with Brazil. So I don't see why FM have implemented a system where players are struggling for WPs at top clubs.

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4 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Depends on the players. With the info you have given, it's not possible to see where the issue is or if there is one.

One player being Italian and one being Brazilian would make no difference assuming we are beyond January 2021 in your save.

Same as a few on here mentioning sending players out on loan to EU clubs - EU or Non EU is now irrelevant.

I'm currently in July 2020. 

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17 minutes ago, paddypower said:

As part of the EU there was freedom of movement so the FA couldn't restrict European footballers right to work here. With Brexit we no longer have freedom of movement hence the issues in game now.

This. And I'll say again what I've said a few times as I appreciate that some are not old enough to remember. The FA imposed limits on foreign players including EU nationals for as long as they could get away with it before being forced to recognize freedom of movement rules.

Their stance may well have changed now but I don't think it will be the free for all that some believe it will be. 

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3 minutes ago, StevehFC said:

I'm currently in July 2020. 

Not sure how the game will work offering long term contracts tbh. Not sure if it's fine as long as they start before the transition period, or they take into account time after.

If you aren't convinced it's working properly I would log it in the bugs forum mate.

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17 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Not sure how the game will work offering long term contracts tbh. Not sure if it's fine as long as they start before the transition period, or they take into account time after.

If you aren't convinced it's working properly I would log it in the bugs forum mate.

Have made a post mate. Cheers. If it's meant to be like that in the game then it's going to be a long challenge. :D

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If any of the issues raised in this are bugs and end up being patched, would that only effect new games? 

Just know from my save with Barnsley after one season I'm really struggling to sign anyone I want outside of the UK. With only a 2 mil budget it's really hard as UK based players tend to be overpriced, basically have to settle for average players. 

Enjoying the challenge so far but can imagine I'll lose interest if I just can't bring in any quality to get promoted as we were predicted 24th first season don't exactly have a good base to build from 

 

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18 minutes ago, anderson36015 said:

If any of the issues raised in this are bugs and end up being patched, would that only effect new games? 

Just know from my save with Barnsley after one season I'm really struggling to sign anyone I want outside of the UK. With only a 2 mil budget it's really hard as UK based players tend to be overpriced, basically have to settle for average players. 

Enjoying the challenge so far but can imagine I'll lose interest if I just can't bring in any quality to get promoted as we were predicted 24th first season don't exactly have a good base to build from 

 

Unlikely to affect save games I would think.

In reality, I would imagine a club the stature of Barnsley would struggle to sign players who are of a sufficient standard and who would meet the criteria. I appreciate this is a sweeping statement, but I cannot imagine many/any of Barnsley's current squad would meet the criteria, although I might be wrong.

 

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13 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Unlikely to affect save games I would think.

In reality, I would imagine a club the stature of Barnsley would struggle to sign players who are of a sufficient standard and who would meet the criteria. I appreciate this is a sweeping statement, but I cannot imagine many/any of Barnsley's current squad would meet the criteria, although I might be wrong.

 

I have a few players who've been granted 'settled' status, unsure if this only applies for their current contract though haven't tried renewing yet. Hopefully I can renew though or half my first 11 is gone next year! 

Only one of my players is an international and plays for Finland, he always gets picked but don't think he's a starter for them could be wrong. 

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1 minute ago, emil_sbn said:

do someone know if there´s a way you can filter players when you scout so that you only receive reports on players that would grant a work premit?

On player search, go to add condition, transfer then work permit chance and set to likely. That's the closest I've managed to find anyway 

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Just now, anderson36015 said:

On player search, go to add condition, transfer then work permit chance and set to likely. That's the closest I've managed to find anyway 

Ok thanks! do you know if you can set a similiar filter for the scouts or is it just a bug?

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Well, honestly in my opinion this really strict brexit rules in FM21 destroyed the game for me. I've always enjoyed starting my saves on england´s lower divisions and the actual rules made it really frustrating to do it so. I get it that the game is a simulator, I get it that brexit will make things harder for clubs to sign foreign talents, that it will reduce the number of non-UK players in Englad, but for christ sake, they could make it optional, they could make a on/off switch button as an option when you´re setting your new save, they could have went millions of ways regarding this, but instead they went on a road that, reading the community feedback around the internet, really turned off most players that like me, enjoy playing in England´s lower leagues.

I know the game shouldn´t be made based on my personal preferences, but c´mon, there are some many stuff that is customizable before you start the save, they could have given us the option to decide on that on this edition, this is a huuuuuge disappointment.

I started this edition with a Nottingham Forest save, I scouted thousands of players, I´ve picked some long term targets, I already had a general idea for targets to sign when I got promotion, and all my plans got wrecked by the new brexit rules. One of the most cool and enjoyable stuff about FM, and I do believe it's the same for most other players, is signing and developing some unknown wonderkid or regen into a vital part of your team, it's scouting every corner of the planet, every lower division league, to find affordable players with some potential for your, most of the times, not so rich team. It's working around your tiny transfer budget hiring low profile players, wonderkids and etc. in order to make your small club a Premier League contender in the future.  For me this, along side tactitcs, have been the core of the game, what made FM such a amazing and addicting experience.Now this is all gone, in order to implement something that has not been implemented IRL, that no one knows how it's gonna be (and I doubt it will be that restricted).

Again, I know this is a very personal opinion about the game, as I know many people enjoy the "realism", I know I had the option to start my save elsewhere, in a league without this crappy WP system...but again, this ruined my particular (and from many other ppl as I have read around here and in other forums) gaming  experience, and this is what I think developers should worry about, the gaming experience! Giving the possibility for every kind of player to enjoy the game, not pushing for ultra realism in a topic that, besides not having been decided on in IRL, is way more about burocracy and politics than actual football.  Again, I understrand that FM is a simulator, that the game being very realistic is what makes different from anything else in the market, but already so many unreal stuff happens anyway in the game, they could have made some possibility os customization regarding this brexit rules for the sake of the gaming experience of a part of the community.

I really wish I knew about this before starting my Nottingham Forest save, before putting so much effort  and spending so much time in this save (I almost finished my first season, I'm a slow player)...hell, I wish i knew this before I bought the game on release day, as I would not have bought it at all...this is the first time I feel like I don't wanna play a FM title anymore since I discovered this amazing game many years ago, this is the first time I have such a bad feedback about the game. I am really dissapointed, and at this moment I regret to have bought it. Maybe I can try playing in different leagues, idk, the games mechanics still awesome, but it is really frustrating to start a save, evolve your team, scout for players, earn the promotion, only to find out that the game has f*** you over and you can't sign 99% of your targets, that buying players from leagues with small reputation, or buying players that are not on a national squad (and this is vital for lower league saves), it's almost impossible... It's really hard to find the will to start a new save after such a frustration like this.     

  

 

 

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24 minutes ago, emil_sbn said:

Ok thanks! do you know if you can set a similiar filter for the scouts or is it just a bug?

Don't know if it's a bug but I can't see a way to do it on scouting

I think this is one of the issues as I feel like I'm wasting money scouting players just on the off chance they qualify for a work permit. The only scouting guarantees are UK players or players with UK citizenship and second nationality 

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2 hours ago, paddypower said:

The likes of Firmino and Coutinho have arrived in England and gotten work permits prior to being regulars with Brazil. 

Neither came direct on the boat over from Brazil as 18 year olds to the UK though.

Firmino Senior Career - Figueirense, Bra (18yo-20, 38 appearances), Hoffenheim, Ger (20yo-24, 140 appearances) and only then to Liverpool at 24/25 years old after becoming an established Bundesliga player.

Coutinho Senior Career - Brazil until 18, then Inter Milan and Espanyol (loan), and then Liverpool at age 21

People forget that it has, in reality, always been hard to get work permits for 17/18 year old South and North Americans, Africans and Asians in the UK unless they came from the Commonwealth or had some other link to the UK. They've otherwise mostly come to the UK in their early 20s after showing their skills in the likes of Spain, France, Italy or Germany (quite a lot from Germany, given they have nearly no restrictions).

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9 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Neither came direct on the boat over from Brazil as 18 year olds to the UK though.

Firmino Senior Career - Figueirense, Bra (18yo-20, 38 appearances), Hoffenheim, Ger (20yo-24, 140 appearances) and only then to Liverpool at 24/25 years old after becoming an established Bundesliga player.

Coutinho Senior Career - Brazil until 18, then Inter Milan and Espanyol (loan), and then Liverpool at age 21

People forget that it has, in reality, always been hard to get work permits for 17/18 year old South and North Americans, Africans and Asians in the UK unless they came from the Commonwealth or had some other link to the UK. They've otherwise mostly come to the UK in their early 20s after showing their skills in the likes of Spain, France, Italy or Germany (quite a lot from Germany, given they have nearly no restrictions).

I agree that you shouldn't be able to pluck kids from Brazil and expect them to get a WP, but I think a lot of people's gripes are the fact that in this current edition with Brexit the way it is, you probably wouldn't be able to get Firmino even after his 140 appearances in Germany (and get no detailed explanation as to why). I don't think it is a major issue if you are a top premier league team as you will be looking for mainly high calibre players, however in my Birmingham City save I haven't found a single suitable target from abroad yet that can get a WP. I don't mind as I like the challenge and I am very near promotion so my targets will change, but I can imagine the transfer market stagnating if you can barely bring in any foreign talent and every bottom half premier league team and all championship teams are battling to sign the same handful of players. 

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16 minutes ago, emil_sbn said:

does settled status mean a player doesnt need a work permit?

 

I think so, mine seem to be until 2024 but after that they would need a permit. No idea if having played in England for years would factor into them getting it though and unsure if it carries across to signing to a new team 

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1 hour ago, Muri4 said:

Well, honestly in my opinion this really strict brexit rules in FM21 destroyed the game for me. I've always enjoyed starting my saves on england´s lower divisions and the actual rules made it really frustrating to do it so. I get it that the game is a simulator, I get it that brexit will make things harder for clubs to sign foreign talents, that it will reduce the number of non-UK players in Englad, but for christ sake, they could make it optional, they could make a on/off switch button as an option when you´re setting your new save, they could have went millions of ways regarding this, but instead they went on a road that, reading the community feedback around the internet, really turned off most players that like me, enjoy playing in England´s lower leagues.

I know the game shouldn´t be made based on my personal preferences, but c´mon, there are some many stuff that is customizable before you start the save, they could have given us the option to decide on that on this edition, this is a huuuuuge disappointment.

I started this edition with a Nottingham Forest save, I scouted thousands of players, I´ve picked some long term targets, I already had a general idea for targets to sign when I got promotion, and all my plans got wrecked by the new brexit rules. One of the most cool and enjoyable stuff about FM, and I do believe it's the same for most other players, is signing and developing some unknown wonderkid or regen into a vital part of your team, it's scouting every corner of the planet, every lower division league, to find affordable players with some potential for your, most of the times, not so rich team. It's working around your tiny transfer budget hiring low profile players, wonderkids and etc. in order to make your small club a Premier League contender in the future.  For me this, along side tactitcs, have been the core of the game, what made FM such a amazing and addicting experience.Now this is all gone, in order to implement something that has not been implemented IRL, that no one knows how it's gonna be (and I doubt it will be that restricted).

Again, I know this is a very personal opinion about the game, as I know many people enjoy the "realism", I know I had the option to start my save elsewhere, in a league without this crappy WP system...but again, this ruined my particular (and from many other ppl as I have read around here and in other forums) gaming  experience, and this is what I think developers should worry about, the gaming experience! Giving the possibility for every kind of player to enjoy the game, not pushing for ultra realism in a topic that, besides not having been decided on in IRL, is way more about burocracy and politics than actual football.  Again, I understrand that FM is a simulator, that the game being very realistic is what makes different from anything else in the market, but already so many unreal stuff happens anyway in the game, they could have made some possibility os customization regarding this brexit rules for the sake of the gaming experience of a part of the community.

I really wish I knew about this before starting my Nottingham Forest save, before putting so much effort  and spending so much time in this save (I almost finished my first season, I'm a slow player)...hell, I wish i knew this before I bought the game on release day, as I would not have bought it at all...this is the first time I feel like I don't wanna play a FM title anymore since I discovered this amazing game many years ago, this is the first time I have such a bad feedback about the game. I am really dissapointed, and at this moment I regret to have bought it. Maybe I can try playing in different leagues, idk, the games mechanics still awesome, but it is really frustrating to start a save, evolve your team, scout for players, earn the promotion, only to find out that the game has f*** you over and you can't sign 99% of your targets, that buying players from leagues with small reputation, or buying players that are not on a national squad (and this is vital for lower league saves), it's almost impossible... It's really hard to find the will to start a new save after such a frustration like this.     

  

 

 

Although I wouldn't personally use it, I think it's becoming clear that lots of users would like to turn Brexit off in it's current form. I find it highly unlikely that SI are going to include that option though. 

Editor files are likely to be your only hope, and due to covid/team numbers it seems this is a harder ask this season.

What I will say is though that Brexit is hardly a secret - you mentioned that you would have considered not buying the game if you had known what it would be like. I honestly think FM21 has been a bit of a wake up call for some in respect of what brexit will mean for labour rules in this country and this thread proves that.

I also think saying "it's not even been decided yet" is a little naïve. It's in four weeks and SI have said that they expect reality to be pretty much in line with what is implemented on the game. Every indication in the media implies similar.

I've said it about 20 times on this thread but I really think people are burying their heads in the sand if they think things will be much different to this.

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44 minutes ago, emil_sbn said:

does settled status mean a player doesnt need a work permit?

 

Someone with settled status can apply to remain in the UK if from the EU, EEA or Switzerland. Will only be relevant if the applicant has lived in the UK before 31/12/20, and applications have to be in by 30/06/21.

So only going to be relevant in respect of first window signings or existing players with contracts beyond June 2021 I would think.

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Just now, EnigMattic1 said:

Are Scottish clubs affected by Brexit? I will be totally honest, I don't understand it in real life, or in FM. I'm just looking at potential affiliate clubs at the moment and Hearts have the best facilities. 

Yes. League rules could well be different in respect of the 17 foreigner limit IRL however a foreign player coming into the UK will need to obtain a work permit, be that England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.

How it is on the game, I couldn't tell you.

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10 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Someone with settled status can apply to remain in the UK if from the EU, EEA or Switzerland. Will only be relevant if the applicant has lived in the UK before 31/12/20, and applications have to be in by 30/06/21.

So only going to be relevant in respect of first window signings or existing players with contracts beyond June 2021 I would think.

Ok perhaps thats why  Joel Valencia couldnt get a work permit for me since he is from Ecuador. But I tried anyway since he has the settled status. 

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1 minute ago, emil_sbn said:

Ok perhaps thats why  Joel Valencia couldnt get a work permit for me since he is from Ecuador. But I tried anyway since he has the settled status. 

Unless I've missed something, an Ecuadorian shouldn't have "settled status" because the scheme is only available to EU, EEA & Swiss nationals according to the government website.

Unless he has a second nationality from a qualifying nation.

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5 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Although I wouldn't personally use it, I think it's becoming clear that lots of users would like to turn Brexit off in it's current form. I find it highly unlikely that SI are going to include that option though. 

Editor files are likely to be your only hope, and due to covid/team numbers it seems this is a harder ask this season.

What I will say is though that Brexit is hardly a secret - you mentioned that you would have considered not buying the game if you had known what it would be like. I honestly think FM21 has been a bit of a wake up call for some in respect of what brexit will mean for labour rules in this country and this thread proves that.

I also think saying "it's not even been decided yet" is a little naïve. It's in four weeks and SI have said that they expect reality to be pretty much in line with what is implemented on the game. Every indication in the media implies similar.

I've said it about 20 times on this thread but I really think people are burying their heads in the sand if they think things will be much different to this.

Just the option to turn it off or at least choose what kind of brexit you would get should be enough...

Again, this is a personal opinion regarding my gaming experience. It's just sad that the way they implemented brexit this year just destroyed the way I enjoy playing it. And I think the gaming experience should be more important than ultra realism.  The game already gives you an option to choose how realistic you want your save to be regarding some aspects, this should be one of those aspects. 

About brexit itself, I've played the 19 and 20 edition, and the rules were much less strict, and it did not made the game boring for england's lower league (only the same bunch of players can be hired and will be disputed by the same teams). Also, I am not from the UK, I am actually from Brazil, and getting the game here in my country is already really annoying, It's extra frustrating when you realize you can't enjoy the game the way you've enjoyed for many years now. 

Also, as I said, I really believe Brexit will make labour rules way more strict in the UK, and this will reflect on football as well, but as in the previous WP system, football is kind of a world apart form the rest when it comes to labour laws. They earn wages that are unreal for 99% of the population, they "work" (as training is working legally for them as well) almost everyday, they also "work" at night and at weekends...and there is also the huuuge money involved in the world of football, from broadcast money to marketing all over the world, so it's english football best interest to ease up some of this requirements. As a guy said some posts above, probably with the current system even Firmino wouldn't get a WP, and I can't imagine english football passing on players of such a caliber because they are tied up to regular labour laws. Also, I don't get how the current system would apply to other kind of workers (a guy in this thread gave a good example of a plumber some pages back), it's really vague and abstact, and mostly the WP system exists to prevent low income hiring from foreigners and "protect" those jobs for UK citizens, which is not the case of most football players, and I really believe that the wage of the foreign worker will be a decisive factor in WP in the UK (already is). 

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16 minutes ago, Muri4 said:

Also, as I said, I really believe Brexit will make labour rules way more strict in the UK, and this will reflect on football as well, but as in the previous WP system, football is kind of a world apart form the rest when it comes to labour laws. They earn wages that are unreal for 99% of the population, they "work" (as training is working legally for them as well) almost everyday, they also "work" at night and at weekends...and there is also the huuuge money involved in the world of football, from broadcast money to marketing all over the world, so it's english football best interest to ease up some of this requirements.

See I think this is the bit that people are mistaken on.

There are two things at play here. The first is the work permit system. Getting a work permit is likely to be tougher under the new points based system. The Home Secretary has said as much. Lots of people on this thread have an idea in their minds that football will find a way around this.

Which brings me to the second point and the point everyone who thinks this is missing. The work permit system and the 17 foreign player rule are separate issues.  You could theoretically fill a squad with 30 foreign nationals if they all got work permits under UK employment law, the same as any industry could fill it's work force with foreign nationals if they all got work permits. However the FA is going to limit it even further which would mean in the scenario I've mentioned, 13 of those 30 players would not be able to be registered to play, work permit or not.

The NHS is not going to limit itself to x amount of foreign doctors per hospital. Manufacturing is not going to limit itself to y amount of foreign engineers per factory.

Yet football is going to impose further limits on itself in addition to the work permit rules set out by the Home Office.

Yet this thread is full of people convinced that English football is going to be less impacted than other sectors. It's bizarre.

 

Ps. I think you should be able to play the game how you want to and I am sorry that you're not enjoying it. I don't think there will be an "official" way to remove brexit though. There is an editor file on the workshop I think.

Edited by Junkhead
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5 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Not sure how the game will work offering long term contracts tbh. Not sure if it's fine as long as they start before the transition period, or they take into account time after.

If you aren't convinced it's working properly I would log it in the bugs forum mate.

If a transfer is confirmed before the Brexit message appears, you are good. Basically try to hoard all the U18 from EU with 5 years contract and 1 year extension then you are set.

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18 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

See I think this is the bit that people are mistaken on.

There are two things at play here. The first is the work permit system. Getting a work permit is likely to be tougher under the new points based system. The Home Secretary has said as much. Lots of people on this thread have an idea in their minds that football will find a way around this.

Which brings me to the second point and the point everyone who thinks this is missing. The work permit system and the 17 foreign player rule are separate issues.  You could theoretically fill a squad with 30 foreign nationals if they all got work permits under UK employment law, the same as any industry could fill it's work force with foreign nationals if they all got work permits. However the FA is going to limit it even further which would mean in the scenario I've mentioned, 13 of those 30 players would not be able to be registered to play, work permit or not.

The NHS is not going to limit itself to x amount of foreign doctors per hospital. Manufacturing is not going to limit itself to y amount of foreign engineers per factory.

Yet football is going to impose further limits on itself in addition to the work permit rules set out by the Home Office.

Yet this thread is full of people convinced that English football is going to be less impacted than other sectors. It's bizarre.

 

Ps. I think you should be able to play the game how you want to and I am sorry that you're not enjoying it. I don't think there will be an "official" way to remove brexit though. There is an editor file on the workshop I think.

I agree, things will be tougher for sure, I just think won't be that though, because of the amount of money involved on it. I think they will add some kind of more subjective criteria regarding football, and not only so objective like amount of games played on the national team on the past months and etc...and also the criterias in the game are not so clear regarding how many points each of it provides, how many games in the league the guy should have played, how many points each league  provdes and etc. (or I  just couldn't find it...).

And I understand the difference between the 17 foreing limit and the WP stuff, I just think that keeping the same rules as in FM20 regarding WP would be enough, in which the transfer amount and the wages counted a lot, applying it to every non-UK player.

And thanks for the support. I just wish I knew about this beforehand...and I wish that I could change it mid-game (I know it's impossible) because I am having a great Nottingham Forest save. One last thing, I couldn't find the editor file you just mentioned on steam workshop...do you know the name of it?

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1 hour ago, Junkhead said:

See I think this is the bit that people are mistaken on.

There are two things at play here. The first is the work permit system. Getting a work permit is likely to be tougher under the new points based system. The Home Secretary has said as much. Lots of people on this thread have an idea in their minds that football will find a way around this.

Which brings me to the second point and the point everyone who thinks this is missing. The work permit system and the 17 foreign player rule are separate issues.  You could theoretically fill a squad with 30 foreign nationals if they all got work permits under UK employment law, the same as any industry could fill it's work force with foreign nationals if they all got work permits. However the FA is going to limit it even further which would mean in the scenario I've mentioned, 13 of those 30 players would not be able to be registered to play, work permit or not.

The NHS is not going to limit itself to x amount of foreign doctors per hospital. Manufacturing is not going to limit itself to y amount of foreign engineers per factory.

Yet football is going to impose further limits on itself in addition to the work permit rules set out by the Home Office.

Yet this thread is full of people convinced that English football is going to be less impacted than other sectors. It's bizarre.

 

Ps. I think you should be able to play the game how you want to and I am sorry that you're not enjoying it. I don't think there will be an "official" way to remove brexit though. There is an editor file on the workshop I think.

WP rule in English football is barely related to common labor law. With those lucrative contracts footballers would automatically get permits if they were in other occupations. In fact, the difficulty of the WP system comes from FA, as they don't want too many foreign players in UK. Given that now the rule is applied for players from EU as well, the player pool is vastly decreased and the clubs are definitely not happy. It is almost guaranteed that they will change the system to support the clubs. Otherwise the clubs will suffer and the money will vanish.

Anyway FM is just a game eventually. In my opinion SI made a huge mistake killing the experience for a large part of the player base. I am not sure about the sale figures, but there will be some changes if the numbers are not good enough.

Edited by longruoi1
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46 minutes ago, Muri4 said:

I think they will add some kind of more subjective criteria regarding football, and not only so objective like amount of games played on the national team on the past months and etc...

Why do you think that? Criteria such as the number of national games played within a period of time is one of the things taken into account already for non-EU nationals. Why would that suddenly become more lenient when work permit criteria is becoming more strict?

You are right that it should be clearer in the game, not arguing with that at all.

I'm not sure what the file is called as I don't use it, but it was mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

And good luck with Forest, hope you do better than the last 20 odd managers we've had 🙄

Edited by Junkhead
Can't spell
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15 minutes ago, longruoi1 said:

WP rule in English football is barely related to common labor law. With those lucrative contracts footballers would automatically get permits if they were in other occupations. In fact, the difficulty of the WP system comes from FA, as they don't want too many foreign players in UK. Given that now the rule is applied for players from EU as well, the player pool is vastly decreased and the clubs are definitely not happy. It is almost guaranteed that they will change the system to support the clubs. Otherwise the clubs will suffer and the money will vanish.

Anyway FM is just a game eventually. In my opinion SI made a huge mistake killing the experience for a large part of the player base. I am not sure about the sale figures, but there will be some changes if the numbers are not good enough.

We are now about two and a half weeks into this circular discussion across multiple threads.

Lots of people keep telling me that "it won't be as bad as FM thinks". 50 people must have said this to me.

Yet here we are and there is zero movement on this in the real world. Zero evidence at all that things will be any better than FM has things. Every Google search for post brexit outcomes in UK football produce pretty consistent "likely" outcomes from sources such as the mainstream national media, immigration and sports lawyers, and local media which is talking to the clubs directly about this. All of those consistent "likely" outcomes look pretty similar to FM.

We can talk about this until the cows come home, but until something concrete to the contrary is announced, then FM is working on the same assumption that clubs, the press and law firms. They are right to do so, IMO. It is factually the most likely outcome.

And the argument about how much money is involved is completely moot. All sorts of UK businesses and industries are going to lose money after the transition period. 

I don't believe SI will move away from reflecting the rules in a realistic way. However I do not think your point about sales being affected negatively is far off the mark if this thread is anything to go by.

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2 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Why do you think that? Criteria in such as the number of national games played within a period of time is one of the things taken into account already for non-EU nationals. Why would that suddenly become more lenient when work permit criteria is becoming more strict?

You are right that it should be clearer in the game, not arguing with that at all.

I'm not sure what the file is called as I don't use it, but it was mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

And good luck with Forest, hope you do better than the last 20 odd managers we've had 🙄

Well, I am not from the UK, but I've lived in Ireland and Spain, and of course my home country, and I've learned from experience that money always find a way to bend the rules on its interest, doesn't matter if It's a developed or not developed country. If not subjective criteria, I do believe it won't be that hard as it is in the game, I do believe that under-21 caps on international squads will also count in the criteria. But it's just a guess, as I don't know much about UK laws.

I'll try searching for the editor data you've mentioned in the thread, thanks for the help! I think I'll start again as Nottingham Forest if I can remove brexit, but it will be very frustrating as I am having my best first season on FM so far, the first season (that is looong) is almost over and we lost just 4 games in the league. I think I am doing better than RL Forest :lol:, when I start a save at FM I always starts also "following" that team's season, and boy, you guys are having a bad one...I really hope you guys can recover, lots of support from Brazil!

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