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Football Manager 2021 Early Access Beta Official Feedback Thread


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1 hour ago, bassistuk said:

my favourite FM 21 bug so far.... smh

125928019_2856099354625364_6461353974860301855_n.png

I saw this on reddit, but call me a cynical, this might just be someone putting De Gea in midfield during a game to get som Karma ;) If not, a clear bug of course.

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I am not sure of this is a bug or not, but it doesn't sit right with me, at all. My club has:

Junior Coaching - Exceptional Academy Coaching

Youth Recruitment - Exceptional Youth Recruitment,

On top of this, my HoYT is top class, yet this is what he has to say about the next youth intake (all negative and not a single positive thing). Surely my club (current champions) can and must attract better youngsters.

If I am missing something, please let me know :)

 

20201116130344_1.jpg

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27 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

My evidence for that is I played the game that was enough and the reaction and feedback here would 100% confirm it was a huge issue last year. That being said that was mainly because defences were essentially braindead zombies shuffling aimlessly around the pitch whilst players with a passing of 1 hit lazer guided 80 yard passes every 5 minutes! If they hadn't nerfed strikers to the point of uselessness every game would have been a cricket score.

God last years ME was just awful.

(It may have improved at some point but I abandoned it in January and never came back a first for me as I'm a hopeless FM addict)

as I have said statistical evidence. Like those football pundits who thought what was a shot that would have gone in most of the time when xG model says not. If ex football players that have played football for most of their life cannot make a good judgement of what is an easy shot and what is not, I have zero hope for normal people like you and me. I prefer the numbers tell me the story. thank you.

And one more thing to consider. Where do you think that SI develop their xG model from? This tells me that they already had a system in game that tells them how likely is a shot will end up as a goal. So it makes zero sense for them to frustrate players. Like seriously what do they gain from that?

Edited by zyfon5
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40 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

I think at the minute its fairly nicely balanced if you look at the XG graph for your league only about 1/3rd of the league are actually clinical in taking chances.

If you buff the defences get ready for the forums to be full of irate people complaining the games boring as all hell again.

I'm really hoping they don't touch the ME its by far the best we've had in years maybe as many as 4 or 5.

It depends I think. If you buff defence, you're not nerfing attack, which means through balls are still very much a possibility and central play will still work. 

I should clarify though. 

I do notice a lot of defensive mistakes in my save. Comical errors that happen in games that may or may not be punished, especially regarding wing backs and their positioning sometimes going very awry, and the gaps between players can be very worrying. 

Its not necessarily a big tweak, and so I do think FM have already probably been working on it for full release. 

So it's not actually a buff, more like a modification to their movement. 

Edited by MatthewS17
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Anyone else think the dinks or lobs happen a little too much? They're beautiful to watch but I think they're a little too frequent. Had a player scored 6 or 7, including 2 in the first 10 mins of the game I'm currently in, before Christmas. Be interested to know if anyone has any stats on players scoring those types of finishes, cos I can't think of a striker that dinks the keeper that many times in a season.

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11 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

as I have said statistical evidence. Like those football pundits who thought what was a shot that would have gone in most of the time when xG model says not. If ex football players that have played football for most of their life cannot make a good judgement of what is an easy shot and what is not, I have zero hope for normal people like you and me. I prefer the numbers tell me the story. thank you.

And one more thing to consider. Where do you think that SI develop their xG model from? This tells me that they already had a system in game that tells them how likely is a shot will end up as a goal. So it makes zero sense for them to frustrate players. Like seriously what do they gain from that?

The game had the Clear cut chances stat which I assume was triggered when a chance was considered a clear cut chance. Which strikers 100% missed more than they scored in FM20. By a lot.

So far I've had my strikers miss loads of what XG says is a great chance but it certainly doesn't feel excessively so like it did last year and they are generally scoring in line with XG.

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I have to say that it is alot easier to win that I expected. Attacking play is good but too many players who have 10 vision and passing are making magical passes. 

To me it seems more of an issue with allowing most players to see the through ball pass and also to play it. 

Also one thing that really annoys me about the fact that attacking formations are so strong is that there seems to be no downside. If I play 2 strikers with 3 attacking mids behind them, I should expect to get slaughtered on the wings on the counter because I have no cover for my fullbacks.

Football is a balancing act, it's a resource game of 11 players on a pitch and how to use them. Big teams get away with playing ultra attacking formations because they put the risk on the defenders who have to be excellent to cover for the attacking mentalities.

Even with the best defenders in the world, if big teams are not careful, as seen in real life, they still get exploited in the gaps they leave behind when commiting so many players forward.

What I'm getting at is that the risk/reward ratio in this game is geared way too much to reward. Higher tempo and mentalities really are too strong, there's a reason only certain teams play it in world football, it asks alot of your players and systems.

In conclusion  don't reduce the reward, just up the risk and also require higher attributes to see or play the through balls. I'm playing like prime barcelona with midfielders who are really not that good.

Edited by bcereus
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12 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

The game had the Clear cut chances stat which I assume was triggered when a chance was considered a clear cut chance. Which strikers 100% missed more than they scored in FM20. By a lot.

So far I've had my strikers miss loads of what XG says is a great chance but it certainly doesn't feel excessively so like it did last year and they are generally scoring in line with XG.

fun fact: most clear cut chances are around 0.3 xG which means that with 7 CCC you are only expected to score 2 at most and 1 if you are unlucky. and there are problems with how the game calculates CCC based on some of the PKM that I reviewed in FM20. And from another post that I remembered most people generate a grand total of 1-2 CCC per game in FM20.

Edited by zyfon5
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20 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

The game had the Clear cut chances stat which I assume was triggered when a chance was considered a clear cut chance. Which strikers 100% missed more than they scored in FM20. By a lot.

So far I've had my strikers miss loads of what XG says is a great chance but it certainly doesn't feel excessively so like it did last year and they are generally scoring in line with XG.

We had lobs in the ME at the beta stage last year, when the game came out of beta they were never to be seen again

About half a season in, I've seen a couple of dinks & one Worldy lob, I wouldn't call that excessive 

 

ETA: I've quoted the wrong person, have a habit of that :idiot::lol:

Edited by Johnny Ace
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46 minutes ago, Broken_Record said:

You should take into consideration the fact that most of FM players want to play the game with their favorite club or in a certain league. Also picking up team like Brechin City only means higher amount of continue clicks, the gameplay itself is not going to be more difficult.

Way better way to increase the challenge would be improving the AI decision making in general, both during matches and outside it. This would bring the career aspect back to the game and would make the game more seriously taken. And are there really any reasons not to increase the difficulty level? If you fail, you can always try again and if you are a bit lost and not know what to do: use the tutorials that the game offers you. Winning everything immediately with very little bit of effort is the main thing where Football Manager is going to the wrong direction. I mean, this game is supposed to be a semi-realistic simulation with huge amount of interesting features, not something designed for small children. 

Well said!

What people consider more challenging right now is just more time-consuming. It's not like it's particularly hard to move up the divisions with a team like that. 

And besides, I love real life football. Teams with history who maybe aren't as great as they used to be or teams that have a great story behind them. I have never picked a top team since I've started playing FM. Not once. 

Edited by Piksi#10
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25 minutes ago, SebastianRO said:

I am not sure of this is a bug or not, but it doesn't sit right with me, at all. My club has:

Junior Coaching - Exceptional Academy Coaching

Youth Recruitment - Exceptional Youth Recruitment,

On top of this, my HoYT is top class, yet this is what he has to say about the next youth intake (all negative and not a single positive thing). Surely my club (current champions) can and must attract better youngsters.

If I am missing something, please let me know :)

 

20201116130344_1.jpg

A good  youth system does not guarantee good youth players, it just improves your chances. Look at Barcelona, arguably one of the best youth setups in the world but haven't produced anything remotely interesting over the past what, five years? Starting to pick up again now though with Fati, Puig and some decent younger prospects in the waiting chamber. And keep in mind that (as far as I know) your youth intake gets compared to your current squad when it comes to potential. If you have a team full of world beaters it will be a lot harder to get youth prospects that can get to their level. 

If you get the above five years in a row, that would be weird and possibly a bug. 

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1 hour ago, Major Raver said:

People moaning about Skill levels. The game has skill levels.

 

Easy = Liverpool, Real Madrid, PSG, Man City etc, with downloaded shortlists, attribute masking off and downloaded tactics.

 

Very Hard = likes of Brechin City, lowest league clubs, first transfer window off, attribute masking on, your own tactics, players only signed through being scouted.

 

Simples :)

I'm doing basically everything you've suggested under "Very hard" and I'm winning most games.

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5 hours ago, RTHerringbone said:

Bug reporting is a key part of the Beta. I've just scanned the Match Engine section and less that half of the threads created there are supported with examples to help SI out. 

Some may be totally legitimate bugs, but if SI don't have files to refer to, then those threads are nothing more than anecdotal statements.

"I haven't scored enough goals from corners". What can SI do with reports like that? It's great that people want to flag issues, but if they aren't done properly then they simply won't make a difference. 

 

All fair and well, but last year from day 1 people reported countless issues with examples and most of them were never fixed, at least not in last years game.

Developers don't owe us anything, but I do think people would be much more inclined to provide complete bug examples if there was more of a communication line of what was being looked at. Last year the 1v1 issue got the "we're looking for a better balance" treatment and was otherwise not fixed.

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21 hours ago, fm2020.smith said:

end of season is completely broke and ruins the game.

everyone you bought wants to leave as you havnt played them in their preferred position. completely ruins the game.

the players dont grumble all season and then right at the end hit you with transfer requests.

also more feedback and maybe linked but clubs are really harsh with their feedback and expectations.

liverpool board unhappy as i came second premiership with 95 points and only lost 3 games and have a champions league final.

they are unhappy if you draw with man city away from home

they are unhappy if you draw with barcelona away 

i think the expectations of players and clubs is obviosley linked as they are both a bit silly at mo

If you promise players to play them in their preferred position and role during contract negotiations (and players demand that a lot more often this version), then that's, surprise surprise, a promise. If you then don't play them often enough in that specific role and position then that's a broken promise and yes players do not like you breaking promises.You can't just make random promises and then expect people to not care when they're not met. I've had multiple players that I bought/renewed contracts that wanted a specific position/role and not a single one is unhappy at the end of the season, because I made sure they'd be played in those roles.

1 hour ago, Broken_Record said:

You should take into consideration the fact that most of FM players want to play the game with their favorite club or in a certain league. Also picking up team like Brechin City only means higher amount of continue clicks, the gameplay itself is not going to be more difficult.

Way better way to increase the challenge would be improving the AI decision making in general, both during matches and outside it. This would bring the career aspect back to the game and would make the game more seriously taken. And are there really any reasons not to increase the difficulty level? If you fail, you can always try again and if you are a bit lost and not know what to do: use the tutorials that the game offers you. Winning everything immediately with very little bit of effort is the main thing where Football Manager is going to the wrong direction. I mean, this game is supposed to be a semi-realistic simulation with huge amount of interesting features, not something designed for small children. 

I've already addressed this in another thread where difficulty was discussed pre FM21, how would you do difficulty?

We all want better AI of course, but you can't just magic better AI out of a hat. Part of that is performance limitations and part of that is well... AI limitations. People will sooner or later discover how an AI ticks and how to exploit it in every single strategy game. People can be incredibly successful in games while playing massive underdogs that realistically should never be of any importance because they know how to game the AI, regardless of what game. As others have stated regarding Paradox games (and other strategy based games), higher difficulties don't mean that the AI suddenly gets better, it means the AI gets to cheat and/or the human is nerfed. The question then is, how would you apply this to FM? Nerf the human? I mean you can do that yourself by going for lower league management and it might slow things down a bit, but we'll get on top in the long run anyway. Give the AI cheats? Sure, but what? More money? I mean, plenty of clubs that are incredibly rich thanks to sugar daddies, doesn't help against the player. Give their players better stats when playing against you? Sure, will probably make the Champions League more challenging, but the rest? Generally, you don't win the league by beating your rivals, you win the league by them throwing away an absurd amount of points. Nerf the human? Good luck, just look how hard people dig their heels in the sand when somebody mentioned that perhaps they should limit themselves in any way. Oh that suddenly isn't how things should be! How dare you suggest that somebody doesn't exploit the AI, while knowing very well what he's doing is exploiting the AI! :lol:

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1 hour ago, Piksi#10 said:

Well said!

What people consider more challenging right now is just more time-consuming. It's not like it's particularly hard to move up the divisions with a team like that. 

And besides, I love real life football. Teams with history who maybe aren't as great as they used to be or teams that have a great story behind them. I have never picked a top team since I've started playing FM. Not once. 

Each version of FM has its own weaknesses and of course also strengths. For me the biggest downfall of the game is though the fact that the game has been made way too easy for us. This basically kills very big part of the main idea of the game and makes it really hard to see it as a seriously taken simulation game. 

I've been having a really difficult time with even completing a single full season with FM for the last couple of years. This is mainly because I lose the interest really early on as the game is not "forcing" me to put on effort and do my best in learning the new features that the game has. Us humans tend to be lazy and as the game allows us to take the easy routes, we more than often do. This on the other hand raises the bar significantly to actually learn to play the game, study new the features and try to master it eventually. 

There would be nothing wrong with it, if the developers would just act and told us a simple thing like: "if you want to be successful in this game, then you have to learn to play it first". And doing this really is the only way for FM to take leaps forward and fulfil it's full potential. 

Edited by Broken_Record
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55 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

The game had the Clear cut chances stat which I assume was triggered when a chance was considered a clear cut chance. Which strikers 100% missed more than they scored in FM20. By a lot.

So far I've had my strikers miss loads of what XG says is a great chance but it certainly doesn't feel excessively so like it did last year and they are generally scoring in line with XG.

The FM XG goals puzzles me as one on ones don't seem to count anywhere near being 1XG. Have had a number of games where a 1v1 in the first minute only adds 0.2-0.3XG to the expected goals this really doesnt seem right for Harry Kane through on goal with just the keeper to beat- the SI XG just seems ridiculously stingy and doesn't reflect what Im seeing on the pitch. Sure if you asked the player he'd expect to be slotting away at 75% of them.

TInfoil hat on but SI choosing to not use the real life XG algorithm feels as if its a way to mask the same issue we had in previous versions- ie we score in line with XG but only because SI have their own implementation of XG.

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Here is a wonder goalI scored with Dembele yes I know the defending was awful but at least let me enjoy something. :lol:

Fair to say the match engine is growing on me, credit to the team at SI who listened to the fans and made strikers score more, matches more open and exciting. 

If defenders can be made just that little more intelligent I think they have nailed it.

Plus I like the fake pass drag back with the latter goal

 

Edited by FMLegend1983
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19 minutes ago, Nonlondoner said:

Arsenal's current crop of defenders are awful in FM21.  

It's not a bug. It's a cautionary warning for us Gooners this season. 

Meanwhile our strikers couldn't hit a cow's a**e with a frying pan. 


10/10 for realism thank you FM.

Speak for yourself! Gabriel has developed nicely for me over the first season. Also had Aubameyang and Lacazette finish on 88 goals combined in all competitions!

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5 minutes ago, dunk105 said:

The FM XG goals puzzles me as one on ones don't seem to count anywhere near being 1XG. Have had a number of games where a 1v1 in the first minute only adds 0.2-0.3XG to the expected goals this really doesnt seem right for Harry Kane through on goal with just the keeper to beat- the SI XG just seems ridiculously stingy and doesn't reflect what Im seeing on the pitch. Sure if you asked the player he'd expect to be slotting away at 75% of them.

TInfoil hat on but SI choosing to not use the real life XG algorithm feels as if its a way to mask the same issue we had in previous versions- ie we score in line with XG but only because SI have their own implementation of XG.

Perhaps actually learn how the real xG algorithm works before making these accusations? For the algorithm it's completely irrelevant who takes the shot, it only looks at the situation around the shot. Someone like Kane would then be expected to score more than his xG would suggest as he's a great finisher, meanwhile a poor finisher who somehow continuously got into those situations would score less than his xG would suggest.

Again go have a look at https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40699431 ,we fans tend to massively overrate chances and 1v1s are not "75%" chances, nowhere near. 75% you're talking penalty conversion rates, do you honestly believe that 1v1s are converted just as often as penalties?

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20 minutes ago, dunk105 said:

The FM XG goals puzzles me as one on ones don't seem to count anywhere near being 1XG. Have had a number of games where a 1v1 in the first minute only adds 0.2-0.3XG to the expected goals this really doesnt seem right for Harry Kane through on goal with just the keeper to beat- the SI XG just seems ridiculously stingy and doesn't reflect what Im seeing on the pitch. Sure if you asked the player he'd expect to be slotting away at 75% of them.

TInfoil hat on but SI choosing to not use the real life XG algorithm feels as if its a way to mask the same issue we had in previous versions- ie we score in line with XG but only because SI have their own implementation of XG.

I think 1v1s are usually an xG of around 0.3, if I remember correctly. Slightly variance based on angles and such.

This is a nice place to read up, and why commentators are not to be trusted regarding "sitters" or "how can he miss?" and the like,

https://statsbomb.com/2016/10/xcommentary/

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20 minutes ago, dunk105 said:

The FM XG goals puzzles me as one on ones don't seem to count anywhere near being 1XG. Have had a number of games where a 1v1 in the first minute only adds 0.2-0.3XG to the expected goals this really doesnt seem right for Harry Kane through on goal with just the keeper to beat- the SI XG just seems ridiculously stingy and doesn't reflect what Im seeing on the pitch. Sure if you asked the player he'd expect to be slotting away at 75% of them.

TInfoil hat on but SI choosing to not use the real life XG algorithm feels as if its a way to mask the same issue we had in previous versions- ie we score in line with XG but only because SI have their own implementation of XG.

As far as I can tell xG doesn't care about the skill of the player involved. It just cares about a large amount of similar situations and how often it is a goal in those situations. It's not meant to be a stat for specific players but rather it's meant as a stat to tell if we are creating good enough chances in general as a team. A 1on1 that gives an xG of 0.3 is still 0.3 no matter if it's Messi or if it's me trying to score.

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3 ore fa, Major Raver ha scritto:

People moaning about Skill levels. The game has skill levels.

 

Easy = Liverpool, Real Madrid, PSG, Man City etc, with downloaded shortlists, attribute masking off and downloaded tactics.

 

Very Hard = likes of Brechin City, lowest league clubs, first transfer window off, attribute masking on, your own tactics, players only signed through being scouted.

 

Simples :)

I strongly disagree (about clubs argument)

First of all on what basis do you judge the level of difficultes?

Example:

Liverpool is predicted to win the league. 

An obscure 6th level club is predicted to close a 18th position. 

You take Liverpool and win. Ok you did what they expected. 

You take that obscure club at finishing in any position above 18th: you went beyond the waits. 

So it's easier overperform with that obscure club. 

 

Or you judge difficultes in: it's harder to win premier with the obscure club.

Ok, but It Is not a Fair comparison and above all, it's not harder, only It Need more time.

 

But the most important thing Is that take Liverpool should be max difficulty cause you have to compete with the greatest manager. 

As in real world.  Top club manager are paid so much not cause It Is easier to win.

 

It's weird that in a manager simulation, (ai) Managers are the less important part (even in judiging players in the research)

 

 

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1 minute ago, davidmn27 said:

In previous years has there been an update / patch for the Beta? Or just 2 weeks of the same Beta then full release version?  Thanks 

If I don't remember completely wrong there was at least one beta patch last version.

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31 minutes ago, Nonlondoner said:

Arsenal's current crop of defenders are awful in FM21.  

It's not a bug. It's a cautionary warning for us Gooners this season. 

Meanwhile our strikers couldn't hit a cow's a**e with a frying pan. 


10/10 for realism thank you FM.

 

I'm Spurs. You can reverse your experience whenever I play Arsenal. I think they took exception to me winning 4-1 in the league so proceeded to hammer me in the Europa 9-1 on agg :/

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

We had lobs in the ME at the beta stage last year, when the game came out of beta they were never to be seen again

About half a season in, I've seen a couple of dinks & one Worldy lob, I wouldn't call that excessive 

 

ETA: I've quoted the wrong person, have a habit of that :idiot::lol:

And I've not seen a single lob yet I'm a season and a half in haha

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Can’t believe how much I’m actually enjoying press conferences and chats with the media and players, I usually loathe that side of the game!

Has anyone gone far enough to see what the script with league prize/tv money is? I managed Celtic in FM20 and saved the messages in notes every year about prize money etc. Eventually we had four automatic qualification spots for the champions league for Scottish clubs and the league was 5th or 6th but the prize money for winning the league over 15 years had only gone from £4m-ish to £5-ish. 

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46 minutes ago, dunk105 said:

The FM XG goals puzzles me as one on ones don't seem to count anywhere near being 1XG. Have had a number of games where a 1v1 in the first minute only adds 0.2-0.3XG to the expected goals this really doesnt seem right for Harry Kane through on goal with just the keeper to beat- the SI XG just seems ridiculously stingy and doesn't reflect what Im seeing on the pitch. Sure if you asked the player he'd expect to be slotting away at 75% of them.

TInfoil hat on but SI choosing to not use the real life XG algorithm feels as if its a way to mask the same issue we had in previous versions- ie we score in line with XG but only because SI have their own implementation of XG.

There is no shot in football that has an XG of 1. XG is essentially the average number of shots taken from that position on the pitch that resulted in a goal. Penalties being the highest of about 0.79XG or in other words a 79% chance statistically of being a goal!

The model SI use for FM is actually more accurate as it also takes into account defender pressure and placement etc. Hence it is actually IMO a bit lower than you'd see say on Match of the Day or some such TV show.

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Finally ... GK is Man of the Match in a 4-0 win. FM21 clearly does "read" things a lot better than any other previous edition. I know that the decision to name Plizzari as Man of the Match is purely down to numbers, he truly was the best man on the pitch. I played a counter-attacking style, The whole team was great, but this man's saves were just out of this world.   :Bowen:

 

 

20201116152216_1.jpg

Edited by SebastianRO
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51 minutes ago, SebastianRO said:

Finally ... GK is Man of the Match in a 4-0 win. FM21 clearly does "read" things a lot better than any other previous edition. I know that the decision to name Plizzari as Man of the Match is purely down to numbers, he truly was the best man on the pitch. I played a counter-attacking style, The whole team was great, but this man's saves were just out of this world.   :Bowen:

 

 

20201116152216_1.jpg

Liking this skin, what is it ?

Edited by Womaz
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Question, during a match in 3D and a bubble comes up from above mentality and instructions etc saying "demand more", is that your demand more shout taking effect or is it the other teams shout or is it your assistants recommendation ? Not clear to me.

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Season review is very cool. I like it very much. Instead of all these emails at the end of the season, you get one screen per one review and it is much better than the old one.

 

Nice one SI. 👏👏

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One other thing which isn't strictly related to FM21 but I see it's not been mended hence why I mention it, I feel the board contradict them self a lot - for example, Ive got Morecombe promoted to League 1 and their expectation is "Fight bravely against relegation" however after our recent draw with Sunderland (arguebly one of the biggest clubs in the league) , they say this is a concern? That doesn't make sense to me, considering our expectations compared to Sunderlands, a draw should be a satisfying result at least in the boards view.

This has been a common issue with the previous years FM's, another example is when I play as Celtic and they want us to get to only the playoffs of the CL this year, not the groups and when I got to the group stage and narrowly lost 2-1 away to Athletico Madrid, this was a notable criticism as "very disappointed by the 2-1 defeat" which is nonsense in my view,

It's a small thing, but it is a bug bearer and it's been an issue for years so I would love to see it fixed this year.

Edited by ScottishFM
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5 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

I'm not sure if this is a bug but everytime a highlight is happening ang I change something on tactic or a instruction the highlight is interrupted right away.

Even if you aren't sure, please report it on the bug section of this forum. 

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