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Football Manager 2021 Early Access Beta Official Feedback Thread


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5 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

I've been very critical of the last few FMs and i still stand by my comments on those iterations. What i will say it that this years ME is superb. I find that wingers and dribbling is much better. The player movements is more interesting. The interplay in midfield and the first time passes into space is excellent. The types of finishes are alot better as well - I have seen dinks, shifts onto other foot, curlers. 

 

My issues

-Consensus is that the MU is awful and i completely agree. There are some good ideas in there but poorly implemented. How do i find stats by player during the game?(I.e the player stats you get at half time?). It would be great to see in the future a companion app where you can have data on your phone/ tablet so the laptop screen could be mostly the match 

- Anyone else finding that 5-2-1-2 is a very comment tactic. I see it ALOT. I think in general, the match AI is pretty basic. I saw in one game against Liverpool they put Andy Robertson as a DLF. I would like to see a much more intelligent and fluid match AI. I.e. the game plan isnt working, whats plan b? Make an early change, change formation e.c.t I only really see this in the last 10 minutes or so.

- Transfers still a bit of an annoyance. Particularly getting rid of players. Seems i can never get rid of players even for half their value. 

I agree that AI managers don't switch formations too often. In fact they rarely seem to acknowledge that they have a secondary formation they can use if the preferred is not producing results. 

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10 hours ago, ImDaWeasel said:

Do that with Fulham and the trousers will be pulled down with a full scale wedgie over the head will be witnessed.

"Oh I dont like being a top team that wins all the time". Complaining about a Elite team that plays attacking football does end up winning trophies is next level nitpicking.

I’m not the sharpest sometimes, so I may have misunderstood, but are you saying that c. 80% of the people that buy this game should NEVER play with the team they support because it’s so easy it’s not fun after the first season?
 

Did you get that job in the SI Marketing department you were after?

Edited by KloppRodgersHodgson
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10 hours ago, kingking said:

However

A.I inability to Counter Attack or Attack efficiently is a known issue.

With a team predicted to be 17-20th, if I went Very Attacking, Direct, High Tempo, High Press I would achi above expectations easily and be 10th or something.

We fans do not want this and we expect better from the devs.

Unfortunately, most players seem to want the status quo where they think they’re overachieving because they’re good at the game, rather than it being ridiculously easy if you just play modern, aggressive, tactics in every match.

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14 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

I’m not the sharpest sometimes, so I may have misunderstood, but are you saying that c. 80% of the people that buy this game should NEVER play with the team they support because it’s so easy it’s not fun after the first season?
 

Did you get that job in the SI Marketing department you were after?

As an aside, did you SEE the praise Hamilton got yesterday for winning his 7th title?!?!

He has always been in one of the top six teams, so he should win every year. He needs to bring in his own difficulty levels if he wants to be taken seriously... no brakes, three wheels, that kind of thing.

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2 suggest for the match screen panel 
1. Sub count 
2. Match overview with weather, ref, comp and match attendance ( updated to live attendance if your team is playing rubbish supporters up and leave)

Other than that looks ok, been playing FM for years and getting my head around some of the new features is kill me  

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People dont seem to be making the connection.

 

Less clutter, widgets, time bars, buttons etc on the match screen....

surely means less processing power wasted on that stuff, and more processing power committed to help the match engine perform more complicated calculations more often, leading to a more enjoyable game (and better graphics performance too).

 

Im not sure its possible to have both at the same time? The full release will reveal if so.

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10 hours ago, Rashidi said:

It's still a beta stage and it's a good thing there are so many people playing super attacking football, including me. Its one way of getting SI to notice plus there are more pkms and save games that we can provide them with a full season of data. I do agree that attacking play seems to be easy and some defences need to tighten up a fair bit to handle overly aggressive systems, imagine the opposite which has actually happened on betas - people can't score. Its still only the beta.

Yep, but it's not exactly just "too easy to break defenses while attacking" but also that there should be huge disadvantages in the defense if you're using super attacking system.

At the moment you are able to play full 90 minutes with super attacking system - that you would normally probably only use when chasing a result in the dying moments of the game - and get away with it without being hit on a break a single time. 

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4 hours ago, RocheBag said:

The best chances in football are about 1 in 3. You've been complaining about this for two days it would've taken 10 seconds to Google it. Clear cut chances are missed way more often than you see to think.

No point arguing with people that trusts their perception over analysis done over thousands of matches. They are already given enough information to educate themselves or leave it as it is. And I can assure you he is not the only one in this forum.

Edited by zyfon5
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2 hours ago, rp1966 said:

Lighting/texturing still does not feel quite right, but it's better than the over-saturated cartoon-y feel of most MEs since the initial 'invasion of the picnic tables' version (FM18?). Hopefully some more tweaking will get us there.

 

 

I quite agree, but the one thing I have noticed is that the names above the players heads during the match is difficult to read, perhaps it can be improved before release.  It was easier when it was just white lettering against the pitch pre FM17 I think.  Now that condition is not included is it not possible to revert to that.

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37 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

I’m not the sharpest sometimes, so I may have misunderstood, but are you saying that c. 80% of the people that buy this game should NEVER play with the team they support because it’s so easy it’s not fun after the first season?
 

Did you get that job in the SI Marketing department you were after?

I think what he means is players are now complaining that they can win every year playing PSG or man city or any big team. Whether you think this is a reasonable complaint is up to you. 

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36 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

Unfortunately, most players seem to want the status quo where they think they’re overachieving because they’re good at the game, rather than it being ridiculously easy if you just play modern, aggressive, tactics in every match.

It's easy if you know what you are doing. I have seen people failed horribly playing overly aggressive tactics using big teams. 

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4 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

It's easy if you know what you are doing. I have seen people failed horribly playing overly aggressive tactics using big teams. 

100% agree, and nobody is saying being good at the game makes you a better person. If anything, if they’re like me, it’s because you’ve sacrificed work, friendships and girlfriends to play the game for years and years, which is sad but true.

But the fact is, for a large % of players, whichever team you pick, in whichever league, you massively overachieve.

The Fulham example earlier, I probably wouldn’t win the league in the first season, but by year three or four, I’d be champions in the league, probably in Europe and swimming in cash.

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10 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

100% agree, and nobody is saying being good at the game makes you a better person. If anything, if they’re like me, it’s because you’ve sacrificed work, friendships and girlfriends to play the game for years and years, which is sad but true.

But the fact is, for a large % of players, whichever team you pick, in whichever league, you massively overachieve.

The Fulham example earlier, I probably wouldn’t win the league in the first season, but by year three or four, I’d be champions in the league, probably in Europe and swimming in cash.

Based on what I have seen from a small sample size, I think this year's game are a bit easier than last year. Strikers are definitely getting nerfed the next update lol.

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10 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

100% agree, and nobody is saying being good at the game makes you a better person. If anything, if they’re like me, it’s because you’ve sacrificed work, friendships and girlfriends to play the game for years and years, which is sad but true.

But the fact is, for a large % of players, whichever team you pick, in whichever league, you massively overachieve.

The Fulham example earlier, I probably wouldn’t win the league in the first season, but by year three or four, I’d be champions in the league, probably in Europe and swimming in cash.

Without better management 'AI' that's always going to be the case.  SI have to create a balanced football world for the 'AI' managers.  You, as someone with years of FM experience and the advantage of real human intelligence are always going to have an advantage.  Until the 'AI' levels up the only option is for you to level down.  Allow the DOF to make your signings, play as club with severe challenges, choose lower experience than the managerial post requires.  

This is one of those things that affects most strategy game based on real world scenarios - they just aren't balanced like a purely invented game world can be.  Play certain countries in the Paradox games and you have huge advantages. Just as with FM you have to tailor your game experience by the team you play.

 

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6 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Based on what I have seen from a small sample size, I think this year's game are a bit easier than last year. Strikers are definitely getting nerfed the next update lol.

That's the wrong way round. Strikers have just been given back a decent level of chance conversion - this has been needed for years and the last thing that we need is a striker nerf.  SI's challenge over the next few iterations of the ME is to improve midfield and defence to stop as many chances being created.  

 

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7 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

Without better management 'AI' that's always going to be the case.  SI have to create a balanced football world for the 'AI' managers.  You, as someone with years of FM experience and the advantage of real human intelligence are always going to have an advantage.  Until the 'AI' levels up the only option is for you to level down.  Allow the DOF to make your signings, play as club with severe challenges, choose lower experience than the managerial post requires.  

This is one of those things that affects most strategy game based on real world scenarios - they just aren't balanced like a purely invented game world can be.  Play certain countries in the Paradox games and you have huge advantages. Just as with FM you have to tailor your game experience by the team you play.

 

I've not really played Paradox games, but do they have difficulty levels?

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3 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

That's the wrong way round. Strikers have just been given back a decent level of chance conversion - this has been needed for years and the last thing that we need is a striker nerf.  SI's challenge over the next few iterations of the ME is to improve midfield and defence to stop as many chances being created.  

 

Yeah there are many ways of bringing down the performance of the strikers. For example so far in every YouTube video I have seen there are issues with defender marking. Fix that and we can assess how it affects the striker conversion rate. There are many ways to achieve the same results.

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2 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

I've not really played Paradox games, but do they have difficulty levels?

Technically they do, but it's pretty much just buffing AI stats (for example giving them more income, better morale, etc). 

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Just now, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

I've not really played Paradox games, but do they have difficulty levels?

Not that I recall - there's an ironman mode to stop save-scumming, but that's it.  The difficulty level is set by your starting country. In Europa Universalis, for example, there's a huge advantage to be had from starting as one of the major sea-faring nations.

 

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2 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

I've not really played Paradox games, but do they have difficulty levels?

Yes for example hearts of iron 4 there are regular and veteran which are different difficulty levels. What they does is give a boost to AI stats like construction speed or factory output. Other strategy games like total war or civilization also have similar mechanics regarding to difficulty levels.

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1 minute ago, KlaaZ said:

Technically they do, but it's pretty much just buffing AI stats (for example giving them more income, better morale, etc). 

That's me corrected.  I must automatically choose the default.

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Just now, HUNT3R said:

Can we stick to feedback on the beta, please? Posts are veering far off topic now.

Sorry. There's a lot to be learned from the comparisons between FM and the Paradox games, This thread is not the place though.

 

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8 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Technically they do, but it's pretty much just buffing AI stats (for example giving them more income, better morale, etc). 

The FM equivalent would be nerfing your manager relative to the 'AI' by choosing lower starting experience and qualifications.

Edited by rp1966
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6 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

The FM equivalent would be nerfing your manager relative to the 'AI' by choosing lower starting experience and qualifications.

The problem IMO is that it only lasts until you reach an average reputation amongst your players. After that point (which can still be reached within a year tops) it's like starting with decent badges. 

I usually buff the AI through the editor and while it does help, it's still not good enough IMO. 

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This may seem a fairly petty gripe, but I've watched a fair few AI match highlights now (EPL) and I'm seeing a lot of very well worked goals or brilliant strikes - this would be fine, except I would argue that's not altogether realistic. ME is much better than FM20 I do concur - plenty of variety - but I'm seeing a lack of 'scrappy' goals or ones leading directly from errors. Even route one goals seem to be at a premium. Any one else see the same?

Edited by Kingstontom88
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I've just finished my first game, and I've done what I always do during the first few games, which is to play with a completely blank tactic with no player or team instructions, to get a feel for the vanilla match engine. 

My first impression: I don't think I'll need to change too much or add too many instructions this year - the football that was played was already pretty close to how I'd want it to be without having to work around things in the match engine. By comparison, last year's beta forced me to jump through hoops as my players just kept hoofing the ball no matter what I tried.

I think I have a bug, but I need to confirm the behaviour here first before I can report it: I'm pretty sure that there should be context menus on the bar at the bottom that shows my players or subs. However, if I left or right click on a player nothing happens. Is that by design or is some kind of menu supposed to appear? 

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People moaning about Skill levels. The game has skill levels.

 

Easy = Liverpool, Real Madrid, PSG, Man City etc, with downloaded shortlists, attribute masking off and downloaded tactics.

 

Very Hard = likes of Brechin City, lowest league clubs, first transfer window off, attribute masking on, your own tactics, players only signed through being scouted.

 

Simples :)

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1 minute ago, Major Raver said:

People moaning about Skill levels. The game has skill levels.

 

Easy = Liverpool, Real Madrid, PSG, Man City etc, with downloaded shortlists, attribute masking off and downloaded tactics.

 

Very Hard = likes of Brechin City, lowest league clubs, first transfer window off, attribute masking on, your own tactics, players only signed through being scouted.

 

Simples :)

Plus manager rep & badges 

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5 minutes ago, DementedHammer said:

if I left or right click on a player nothing happens. Is that by design or is some kind of menu supposed to appear? 

Happens to me every now & then, but yeah, they should be clickable to make subs & change role. Report it if that's the case. Mine doesn't work at random so haven't really been able to report it  

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49 minutes ago, Kingstontom88 said:

This may seem a fairly petty gripe, but I've watched a fair few AI match highlights now (EPL) and I'm seeing a lot of very well worked goals or brilliant strikes - this would be fine, except I would argue that's not altogether realistic. ME is much better than FM20 I do concur - plenty of variety - but I'm seeing a lack of 'scrappy' goals or ones leading directly from errors. Even route one goals seem to be at a premium. Any one else see the same?

I've scored some right crappy goals so they're definitely in the ME :lol:

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Here is my list of random feedback. For context I'm a long term player (since 01/02), have every version since CM4, and put over 500 hours into FM20 :0. I always try to play somewhat realistically and try not to "game" it too much.

  • There is too much wasted screen where you have the centre pane and empty space all around it. It's like that on the team selection as well. Don't like.
  • When you get the u23 / u18 results email in your inbox, I wish they were presented as a formation rather than as a list, bearing in mind my u23 managers 'creativity' in team selection it's really hard to tell what position and role a player played. 
  • Gestures are a bit meh, or just badly described. It feels like its just a UI change from calm/assertive etc, even if under the hood it isn't the same. I do like throwing water bottles though, so even if it is just a UI change its a good one.
  • GK match ratings need looking at. Having nothing to do in a match shouldn't mean you get a 6.2 - 6.4 imo.
  • I like the slightly more ambiguous match fitness indicators. I wish Assistant would stop telling me to make subs for tired players in the 92nd minute though.
  • I wish I could resize panels, for instance on the player profile screen.
  • Touchline shouts seem less arbitrary this year. In 20 just "demand more" in min 30 and minute 70 for 2 free boosts to confidence every match, whatever the context. Doesn't work like that anymore it seems.
  • Training is still somewhat of a mystery to me. I let the staff work it out. I wish they would automatically add "Match Review" after the recovery session post match though. Gets tedious having to do it 50+ times every season.
  • a 4-2-3-1 with an AMC(Att) and a DFL(Su) no longer means that they will trip over each others laces or run into each other. I like.
  • Players in general appear to be much more capable of massive brain farts, no matter how good they are. Overall the match engine seems far less predictable, which is both a blessing and a curse.
  • Unlike previous versions, a high intensity system will cause you problems over the course of a season if you just stick to it. I'm getting into the habit of slowing things down if I'm 2-0 up after 70 minutes. I even regularly change my mentality from positive to cautious, something I never needed to do before.
  • I'm finding a lot of the instructions actually seem to have a noticeable difference now. I am much more confident during a match that when I click on pass into space because I'm being too tightly marked for passing to feet to be effective that the players will actually respond, and not just carry on playing exactly as they were before.
  • And finally in this stream of random thoughts, The assistant manager is still constantly giving **** advice. Play attacking. No play defensive, No play cautious. Play centrally, play wide, we are strongest down the left/right/middle. It's like having Boris as an assistant. Oh, and telling me to tell the players every single damn game to do it for the fans, followed by put on a show as media have been praising is getting old. It's one of the reasons I have never liked passing team talks / media etc over to assistants.

EDIT: Oh and can anyone tell me how to find the strength of each foot in the player profile like you get during scouting meetings. All i can find is preferred foot, which is different to the level of detail they give when they are scouting said player. I've not been able to find this particular nugget for years now.

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Match engine continues to surprise me this year, just had a striker dink the ball over the keeper and then an opposition defender just get to it and hook it off the line before it went in. Never seen that in any FM before. Lovely stuff (although I'd rather he'd have scored!)

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3 minutes ago, Major Raver said:

People moaning about Skill levels. The game has skill levels.

 

Easy = Liverpool, Real Madrid, PSG, Man City etc, with downloaded shortlists, attribute masking off and downloaded tactics.

 

Very Hard = likes of Brechin City, lowest league clubs, first transfer window off, attribute masking on, your own tactics, players only signed through being scouted.

 

Simples :)

I dislike this. It seems very one dimensional. Also, I don't even know wtf downloaded shortlists are. Why would you download a shortlist?

 

I usually start my beta save with a small club. Then I do another small club save upon release. But my favourite club is and always will be Manchester United, and so I'm going to do my longest term save with a single club with them. 

I don't see it as not being a challenge, while being easier in terms of being a big club and having better players, as a fan, I find it a challenge to blend youth, academy and top players in and do it for 30 seasons or so, especially as you want to sign certain profiles of players that befit the club. Basically, I like long term REALISTIC squad building in a moderate sense, not the "Oh look Neymar is available, now let me get Mbappe too" sense.  

I do understand when people talk about it being too easy with this club though, as they have fallen very far from grace and yet, without any signings can be the most dominant force in the league, and that does need to change a bit. Individually, United are very strong and that needs to be reflected, but as a team they are not particularly any good.

FM20 did a better job capturing that idea. 

Those who take over a big club, spend oodles of money on the best players and then complain it's too easy, I'm not really sure what you're expecting? Relegation?

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If you take a big club you are expected to win most of your matches. However, you have to be prepared for those 10 matches per season that really counts (ucl and the big games in the league). So, yes, playing with MUFC should be easier but if you don't perform well, and well here means at least win the FA cup and qualify to next year UCL, you should be fired at the end of the season. 

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A couple more things I thought of.

I'm loving the extra stats / presentation of stats like pie charts of short/med/long passes. xG is already a much better system than CCCs.

I'm not loving my (supposedly very good) DoF constantly making offers for terrible options. I know I can turn this off, and I do have veto over them, but why is he making offers for 1.5-2 star potential players while also telling me to not give contracts to my youth players who have 3.5 star potential :/

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2 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

Based on what I have seen from a small sample size, I think this year's game are a bit easier than last year. Strikers are definitely getting nerfed the next update lol.

Then I will stop playing again because them being nerfed in FM20 resulted in the game being a boring awful grind where more often than not you scored from a set piece after missing 7 CCCs...why people really want to go back to that is beyond me.

I pray that SI agree with me and not them!

Edited by kiwityke
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1 minute ago, kiwityke said:

Then I will stop playing again because them being nerfed in FM20 resulted in the game being a boring awful grind where more often than not you scored from a set piece after missing 7 CCCs...why people really want to go back to that is beyond me.

I pray that SI agree!

Agree. I think defending needs to be buffed, rather than another nerf to something else. Seems counter productive.

Nerfing was what happened last year to 1v1s and chance conversion and look how that turned out.

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3 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

Agree. I think defending needs to be buffed, rather than another nerf to something else. Seems counter productive.

Nerfing was what happened last year to 1v1s and chance conversion and look how that turned out.

I think at the minute its fairly nicely balanced if you look at the XG graph for your league only about 1/3rd of the league are actually clinical in taking chances.

If you buff the defences get ready for the forums to be full of irate people complaining the games boring as all hell again.

I'm really hoping they don't touch the ME its by far the best we've had in years maybe as many as 4 or 5.

Edited by kiwityke
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2 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

Then I will stop playing again because them being nerfed in FM20 resulted in the game being a boring awful grind where more often than not you scored from a set piece after missing 7 CCCs...why people really want to go back to that is beyond me.

I pray that SI agree!

Btw I have not seen clear evidence from a statistical sense that players are missing more than what they should in FM 20. Not sure why people think that is the truth. And nerfing strikers can mean a lot of things not just in terms of them converting less.

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After playing a full season I can say that the match engine is miles ahead of last year's, and with some tweaks it would be absolutely brilliant. 

The main issues with it for me are that there are far too many blocks, and crosses seldom actually get put in. Even when a player is ten yards ahead of the fullback they will wait to get caught up, so the cross is blocked. Crosses are virtually pointless this year because if it. 

I'm also not seeingg balls squared to strikers as much as I would have liked. So many times my wingers cut inside and dribble to the byline, but instead of pulling it back they shoot basically from the byline. 

Like I said, this match engine is good. Just a couple tweaks for it to be great as there is a lot to love here.

And while I'm here, I have to again say that the match UI is laughably terrible. Offers no relevant advice, it shows none of the stats people want to see, the location of I formation is awful and unintuitive. They should scrap it and start again, this is unsalvageable and just plain horrendous. Absolutely zero constructive feedback because there is nothing remotely acceptable about this mess.

The team talks, news conferences are the same. Pathetic placement of information that makes it difficult and frustrating to read quickly, so much empty space and obnoxious background images that make text hard to see. The increased comment options are also pointless, just long winded rewording of the same four basic reply types, as I said they would be before release. Waste of development time.

However, I did love the post season review, that was absolutely lovely. The game is so much more responsive, saving is much faster and there's a lot of nice polish in key areas. 

This is a very good edition of the game, if they would fix the crap UI and some match engine issues this would be an amazing release.

I wish they would increase difficulty too, as the game is laughably easy, but that will never happen. I exclusively play this game on network saves as there's no fun or challenge to be had playing solo these days due to steamrolling everything no matter who I go. 

 

Edited by Bradley21
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9 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Btw I have not seen clear evidence from a statistical sense that players are missing more than what they should in FM 20. Not sure why people think that is the truth. And nerfing strikers can mean a lot of things not just in terms of them converting less.

My evidence for that is I played the game that was enough and the reaction and feedback here would 100% confirm it was a huge issue last year. That being said that was mainly because defences were essentially braindead zombies shuffling aimlessly around the pitch whilst players with a passing of 1 hit lazer guided 80 yard passes every 5 minutes! If they hadn't nerfed strikers to the point of uselessness every game would have been a cricket score.

God last years ME was just awful.

(It may have improved at some point but I abandoned it in January and never came back a first for me as I'm a hopeless FM addict)

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14 hours ago, emil_sbn said:

While I agree with you to some extent please bear in mind that this is a beta version. Things can still change to the full release. 

The UI layout in the game now will be the same come full release.

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I don't think FM 20 was necessarily 'harder'. AI would soon play ultra-defensive, and with documented issues of strikers movement and central play this would make for a very dull and repetitive ME experience. Very attacking formations would still score lots of goals, mostly from set pieces, long shots or wing play. In FM 21 beta I see a similar pattern of very defensive and passive AI, but I'm also seeing much better striker movement, more creative central play and more variety of goals scored. So I guess both games are 'easy' in some ways. I think this ME is much better, more versatile and enjoyable than FM 20 right now. Hopefully it can be improved, the key imho is making AI less passive when they attack and counter-attack.

Edited by kandersson
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58 minutes ago, Major Raver said:

People moaning about Skill levels. The game has skill levels.

 

Easy = Liverpool, Real Madrid, PSG, Man City etc, with downloaded shortlists, attribute masking off and downloaded tactics.

 

Very Hard = likes of Brechin City, lowest league clubs, first transfer window off, attribute masking on, your own tactics, players only signed through being scouted.

 

Simples :)

You should take into consideration the fact that most of FM players want to play the game with their favorite club or in a certain league. Also picking up team like Brechin City only means higher amount of continue clicks, the gameplay itself is not going to be more difficult.

Way better way to increase the challenge would be improving the AI decision making in general, both during matches and outside it. This would bring the career aspect back to the game and would make the game more seriously taken. And are there really any reasons not to increase the difficulty level? If you fail, you can always try again and if you are a bit lost and not know what to do: use the tutorials that the game offers you. Winning everything immediately with very little bit of effort is the main thing where Football Manager is going to the wrong direction. I mean, this game is supposed to be a semi-realistic simulation with huge amount of interesting features, not something designed for small children. 

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