[Netherlands] (Official) League Specific Issues

[Lemoche]

1 hour ago, Stephen Glennon said:

This would be an issue for the Transfers forum. Although bear in mind that sometimes teams demand absurd prices as a way of saying 'not for sale'.

It’s annoying its been the same since fm20

[D-Foxx]

I'm currently playing in the second season of the Keukenkampioen Division and the substitution rules suddenly changed. I'm now only allowed to make three substitutions instead of five.

 

[Jeroen Thijssen]

17 minutes ago, D-Foxx said:

I'm currently playing in the second season of the Keukenkampioen Division and the substitution rules suddenly changed. I'm now only allowed to make three substitutions instead of five.

 

This is correct and in accordance with all the Covid-19 rules - there's 5 (global?) substitutes this season. It will be back to 3 next season.

[D-Foxx]

8 hours ago, Reddiablo said:

This is correct and in accordance with all the Covid-19 rules - there's 5 (global?) substitutes this season. It will be back to 3 next season.

Omg, did not know this! I honestly thought it was a new rule. Thanks for clearing it up.

[JayBee010]

Not sure if this is the right topic, but these flags supporting Feyenoord are .... well ..... really not done! Feyenoord is not white-red-white, that really hurts.

Edited December 1, 2020 by JayBee010

[0tto0o]

hahaha, that's actually quite funny... 

[pefieverwey]

On 16/11/2020 at 20:02, Reddiablo said:

Well, in this save I see

2 signings, 2 foreign
6 signings, 2 foreign
6 signings, 5 foreign (!)
4 signings, 3 foreign
9 signings, 3 foreign
THat's not so bad (it does seem to get a bit more Dutch oriented, but there's also regens joining in.....)

But it does seem there's still a general trend to sign almost solely Dutch players across the board (so all clubs in the Eredivisie).  What can we do about this? @Freddie Sands

Any word wether this is getting a fix? In FM20 it really broke immersion, FM21 seems to have the same problem. Thanks.

[grayhairgaming]

The league rules screen for Eredivisie says end of season is June 6th (after relegation playoff games). I'm now in pre-season and July 3rd, and no season schedule has come out, no clubs have been promoted/relegated (even the bottom two, which should go straight down). Spain also appears to be stuck on their last season results; those are the only 2 leagues out of the top 20 rep leagues in Europe to not have flipped to the new league season. 

Not sure if this is a bug or if they are starting the season later?

 

Edit: It finally switched over on July 7th. Feels like there should be something in the league rules about that, was very concerning to be honest.

Edited December 7, 2020 by grayhairgaming
Adding detail

[^1Not^22^3B^4Reanimated]

perennial contenders is translated als meerjarige kanshebbers. This is wrong. Here is meant "eeuwige kanshebbers"

 

[^1Not^22^3B^4Reanimated]

I believe that with tie is meant "dubbele confontatie" or "dubbele ontmoeting" en niet "gelijkspel"

I think we did a nice job of managing this tie and this second leg performance was a good one ->   Ik vind dat we het goed gedaan hebben in deze dubbele ontmoeting en deze tweede wedstrijd was prima.

[Samelders]

In the Dutch Eredivisie, transfers are weird.

In real life players almost never transfer between Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV. In FMT 2021 a lot of transfers between the traditional dutch elite clubs are happening.

Also its like Dutch clubs go for mainly Dutch players when looking at incoming transfers from other competitions. In real life they would have a strong preference for former players of the club. In FM I don't see this preference. I see Ajax buying back a lot of former Feyenoord, AZ en PSV players from clubs abroad. 

Example transfers Ajax to PSV. 

Example Ajax buying former players PSV (Zoet & Bergwijn) and Feyenoord (Malacia)

[stevenvdijk]

In regards to the transfer issue, there is a good overview here that shows the ratio of foreign players in the Eredivisie: https://www.transfermarkt.nl/eredivisie/gastarbeiter/wettbewerb/NL1

This doesn't mean that every transfer window it should reflect that, but it can help to see that in FM21 the clubs are too much buying dutch players compared to foreigners. And looking at the database I think the ratio is reflected quite well - so there might be something else (coded) that is blocking the clubs from buying foreign players?

[Samelders]

Also, the eredivsie is a known nursery for young talented players. I think the incoming transfers are skewed (too old) and there a not enough incoming talented young players (especially from scandinavia/belguim and somewhat eastern europe)

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Samelders

[pefieverwey]

11 hours ago, stevenvdijk said:

In regards to the transfer issue, there is a good overview here that shows the ratio of foreign players in the Eredivisie: https://www.transfermarkt.nl/eredivisie/gastarbeiter/wettbewerb/NL1

This doesn't mean that every transfer window it should reflect that, but it can help to see that in FM21 the clubs are too much buying dutch players compared to foreigners. And looking at the database I think the ratio is reflected quite well - so there might be something else (coded) that is blocking the clubs from buying foreign players?

It sure seems hard coded. I've tried messing around with the transfer preferences for the Netherlands and when I tested it, everything I tried had the exact same result.

Edited December 8, 2020 by pefieverwey

[stevenvdijk]

On 08/12/2020 at 22:17, pefieverwey said:

It sure seems hard coded. I've tried messing around with the transfer preferences for the Netherlands and when I tested it, everything I tried had the exact same result.

Yes, i had done similar test with adjusting the transfer preferences - same result indeed with the issue.

@Freddie Sands Is there any sight on a hotfix for this issue coming soon?

[stevenvdijk]

Hi @Freddie Sands, do you know if the transfer issue is something that is being looked at - and maybe we can expect a fix on? (as its not really realistic to play with the dutch league now, so hope it can be fixed soon  )

[Samelders]

2 hours ago, stevenvdijk said:

Hi @Freddie Sands, do you know if the transfer issue is something that is being looked at - and maybe we can expect a fix on? (as its not really realistic to play with the dutch league now, so hope it can be fixed soon  )

It has been like this for years now, but it's kind of a shame the transfer A.I. hasn't been improved at all..

[stevenvdijk]

On 01/12/2020 at 20:34, pefieverwey said:

Any word wether this is getting a fix? In FM20 it really broke immersion, FM21 seems to have the same problem. Thanks.

@Freddie Sands @Neil Brock This dutch transfer issue has been something that was wrong in FM20 already, and continues to be in FM21.. Is it possible that this gets a higher priority on the problem list? 

Edited December 18, 2020 by stevenvdijk

[Freddie Sands]

On 07/12/2020 at 18:37, grayhairgaming said:

The league rules screen for Eredivisie says end of season is June 6th (after relegation playoff games). I'm now in pre-season and July 3rd, and no season schedule has come out, no clubs have been promoted/relegated (even the bottom two, which should go straight down). Spain also appears to be stuck on their last season results; those are the only 2 leagues out of the top 20 rep leagues in Europe to not have flipped to the new league season. 

Not sure if this is a bug or if they are starting the season later?

 

Edit: It finally switched over on July 7th. Feels like there should be something in the league rules about that, was very concerning to be honest.

Hi, this is due to the competition update day (the day between seasons where the competitions code under the hood updates everything to the new season at once) being different per nation. Spain I believe are quite late due to long running Second Division B playoffs.

[Freddie Sands]

9 hours ago, stevenvdijk said:

@Freddie Sands @Neil Brock This dutch transfer issue has been something that was wrong in FM20 already, and continues to be in FM21.. Is it possible that this gets a higher priority on the problem list? 

Hi, as Stephen has mentioned above I'm afraid this is more to do with the application of the transfers code given the starting data for the Netherlands (and Dutch clubs) rather than the rules set for the country. So with regards to replication Dutch-specific transfer activity I think the Research forum would be the best bet for seeing if there are related data fields which can specifically reflect these trends.

[stevenvdijk]

2 hours ago, Freddie Sands said:

Hi, as Stephen has mentioned above I'm afraid this is more to do with the application of the transfers code given the starting data for the Netherlands (and Dutch clubs) rather than the rules set for the country. So with regards to replication Dutch-specific transfer activity I think the Research forum would be the best bet for seeing if there are related data fields which can specifically reflect these trends.

Hi, the issue has been raised and discussed in the Research forum (you can find for example my post here: https://community.sigames.com/topic/531274-holland-data-issues/?do=findComment&comment=12748449

@Reddiablo can also not see why this issue arrises. 

It starts to feel we are going in loops, instead of the problem being solved :S. 

 

[Ragin Cajun]

This may be more data related but wasn't sure where to place it.

Finished 14th in the Eredivisie.  The Rules show a cash award for "..." 8-15th positions to be $8.6M.  I finished 14th and received 6.3M.  Either there are further tiers that cannot be seen in the Rules section...or the payout is wrong.

[BroeslyDotA]

Hey guys, I`m either having an issue with Ajax's B team or i havent been able to figure out how to make this work.

Last year, making my first team players avaliable for B team made them actually play in the b team. This year, they're simply not in the squad on match day. 

I set them to be avaliable for B team for 90 minutes, they show up when B Team manager asks me for lineup, but they DO NOT play on matchday.

What's wrong ?

[Daveincid]

Am 18.12.2020 um 16:48 schrieb Freddie Sands:

Hi, as Stephen has mentioned above I'm afraid this is more to do with the application of the transfers code given the starting data for the Netherlands (and Dutch clubs) rather than the rules set for the country. So with regards to replication Dutch-specific transfer activity I think the Research forum would be the best bet for seeing if there are related data fields which can specifically reflect these trends.

Hi Freddie

@majesticeternity and I spent about 10 hours with testing and trying to fix it.

• Transfer preferences: We limited dutch transfers, we set it to "none" we really tried everything - no success
• Adding a club vision to all clubs for buying players with belgian nationality - no success
• Added the same for staff members  - no success

 

So we are really at this point where we are 100% certain to say: it's a bug.

 

Cheers

Daveincid

[stevenvdijk]

There are dispensation rules for players in the U18 competition, which don't seem to be included in the game.

Its for players who are eligible for the U19, and in season 20/21 can play for U18 as well (do the the change from U19 to U18.

Spelers geboren op of na 1 januari 2003 mogen meespelen met de O18 competitie in seizoen 2020/’21. In het seizoen 2020/’21 mogen per team, per wedstrijd vijf dispensatiespelers op het wedstrijdformulier voorkomen die op grond van hun leeftijd speelgerechtigd zijn voor O19 en niet meer voor O18 (voor het seizoen 2020/’21 betekent dit dat zij moeten zijn geboren op of na 1 januari 2002 maar voor 1 januari 2003).

Full info here on page 12: https://www.knvb.nl/downloads/sites/bestand/knvb/21692/informatiedocument-jeugd-landelijk-2020-21

[stevenvdijk]

Players in the U18 competition are lacking official match statistics. It seems the U18 matches are all qualified as friendly matches.

Added two screenshots. On the main squad overview you can see the stats per players are all '-'. And on the player screenshot you can see that only the European Elite games are there, the national games are counted at 'friendly matches'

[JulesD]

I'm playing as FC Utrecht, when I arrange friendlies for my B team squad and let my first team members play in them to gain match fitness so I don't distort the training regime I can't select them as players for first team league matches later that week. This is because a rule is wrongly applied; only 2 players play for both the first team and the B team in the same game week (exception being U23) players. This makes sense for Keuken Kampioen games, but not for friendlies to gain fitness. Can this be fixed?

Edited January 16, 2021 by JulesD

[Evix]

Hi. I have problem with reserves on Ajax. 

I don't know how to explain it but screenshots tell all. 

I change player from reserves to first team and i let him play 1 match(1 screenshot and second screenshot(before and after match)). I change him but now from first team to reserves and i let him play 1 match(3 screenshot). Again change him from reserves to first team and let him play 1 match(4 screenshot). After this i change him to reserves and i wait to end season. After seazon he have with bug 61 aps on reserves...:> (5 screenshot) With added leagues on polish league this bug do same(screenshot 6)  

Edited January 18, 2021 by Evix

[^1Not^22^3B^4Reanimated]

The dutch national squad U20 can be dropped

soure: KNVB stopt met Nederlands elftal onder 20 | OnsOranje

At this moment not clear what happens with staff:
Suggestions:
Pieter Schrassert Bert: set as coach to lowest national youthteam as he still is coach national team U15
Jelle ten Rouwelaar:  release from national team  (has job at Anderlecht)
Ervin Lee: release from national team (has job at Zeeburgia)
Bert Konterman: set as coach to lowest tnational youthteam as he still is coach national team U16

[Craduco]

Please add Ajax staff to the game

[fmguy1]

@CraducoNot possible due to licensing issues

[fmguy1]

Jong Heerenveen isnt affiliated to sc Heerenveen, its a seperate team in the game.

[Jeroen Thijssen]

1 hour ago, fmguy1 said:

Jong Heerenveen isnt affiliated to sc Heerenveen, its a seperate team in the game.

We may have fixed this for the update.

[fmguy1]

1 hour ago, Reddiablo said:

We may have fixed this for the update.

When does the update come out?

[Jeroen Thijssen]

2 hours ago, fmguy1 said:

When does the update come out?

Can't tell you yet. Please have patience, it will be communicated everywhere thoroughly 

[JulesD]

On 16/01/2021 at 17:20, JulesD said:

I'm playing as FC Utrecht, when I arrange friendlies for my B team squad and let my first team members play in them to gain match fitness so I don't distort the training regime I can't select them as players for first team league matches later that week. This is because a rule is wrongly applied; only 2 players play for both the first team and the B team in the same game week (exception being U23) players. This makes sense for Keuken Kampioen games, but not for friendlies to gain fitness. Can this be fixed?

Has this been fixed in the patch @Reddiablo? Couldn't find it in the patch notes.

[BlingFC]

On 11/11/2020 at 06:42, Freddie Sands said:

Known Netherlands issue of note currently:

• Keuken Kampioen Divisie has relegation enabled

Just wanted to check if what i'm experiencing is related. 

My reserves (Jong Feyenoord) won the Dutch Reserve Competition Eredivisie last season but weren't promoted to the Keuken Kampioen Divisie.

Is this an issue that is still being looked at? Or have i misunderstood the promotion scenarios?

Thanks.

[DoubleR]

Not really an issue, but didn’t really know where to put this otherwise. I was wondering why the Dutch eredivisie still doesn’t have supporter profiles filled in. If I’m correct all clubs still use 10 for all the stats (loyalty, temperament etc) while a lot of other leagues, even lower ranked leagues, do have those filled in. 

I noticed because I’m currently playing as Vitesse. I wouldn’t say they have 10 loyalty (I feel like the moment it goes bad the stadium is even more empty than normal, sorry Vitesse fans!)

Is this something that will get looked at in the future??

[DoubleR]

2 hours ago, BlingFC said:

Just wanted to check if what i'm experiencing is related. 

My reserves (Jong Feyenoord) won the Dutch Reserve Competition Eredivisie last season but weren't promoted to the Keuken Kampioen Divisie.

Is this an issue that is still being looked at? Or have i misunderstood the promotion scenarios?

Thanks.

Isn’t the Dutch reserve competition not a part of the pyramid? So that would make promotion to the keuken kampioen divisie from that league impossible 

I do know there are IRL talks to put the Feyenoord reserve team within the pyramid, but on a lower level. Then promotion does get possible.

[BlingFC]

Im Australian and dont really understand how that league works, but i can see the other Jong (Reserve) teams are part of the competition?

Steam.lnk

[DoubleR]

12 hours ago, BlingFC said:

Im Australian and dont really understand how that league works, but i can see the other Jong (Reserve) teams are part of the competition?

Steam.lnk 1 kB · 0 downloads

Ah I understand ! A few years ago a few “jong” teams decided to join the pyramid while other clubs weren’t able to or didn’t want to make the move and stayed in their own reserve completion (which isn’t part of the pyramid so they are stuck there now).... and now they regret the decision because of how big the level difference is! 

Edited February 27, 2021 by DoubleR

[BlingFC]

On 27/02/2021 at 11:28, DoubleR said:

Ah I understand ! A few years ago a few “jong” teams decided to join the pyramid while other clubs weren’t able to or didn’t want to make the move and stayed in their own reserve completion (which isn’t part of the pyramid so they are stuck there now).... and now they regret the decision because of how big the level difference is! 

Thanks so much for explaining

[jelger9611150]

The transfer window for Dutch league closes 24 hrs earlier than the rest of Europe (Augustust 30 at 23.59 instead of August 31 at 23.59)

[0tto0o]

On 28/02/2021 at 06:53, BlingFC said:

Thanks so much for explaining

It is quite a complicated system. At the start of the current season some changes were made to allow Jong teams a second chance to get into the pyramid, just like DoubleR said (Feyenoord that is, who didn’t want to at first, but now see the benefit teams like Ajax and PSV have with a team on the second level). If we would ignore the competitions besides the top 2 divisions being stopped this season due to COVID, the situation would have been as follows:

 

In the KKD (first division) there are 4 Jong-teams (Ajax, PSV, Utrecht & AZ).

On level below that, you have the Tweede Divisie (second division), with 2 Jong-teams (Sparta & Volendam). Those are the Jong teams in the regular competition. Below that level the Jong-team have their own league, the league in which Jong Feyenoord won the league in your game.

 

For a Jong team to get promoted or relegated, there are lots of complicated rules. If we look at the 4 teams in the KKD, the rules for them to be relegated are as follows:

 

1. If all Jong-teams finish in the top half (top 10) of the league, none will be relegated and therefor none will be promoted from the Tweede divisie (The number of Jong teams in the KKD and the Tweede Divisie is fixed).

2. If one of the Jong-teams in the Tweede divisie is crowned champion, it will play a home and away play-off with the worst KKD Jong-team (only if that team also finished 11th or lower (rule 1)) for promotion/relegation.

3. If the worst KKD Jong-team finishes 19th or 20th and the best Tweede Divisie Jong-team finishes 1st or 2nd in the Tweede Divisie, then there will be automatic promotion and relegation without a play-off. So if Jong AZ finishes 19th, Jong Utrecht 20th in the KKD and Jong Sparta finishes 1st and Jong Volendam finishes 2nd, then Jong Utrecht would go down and Jong Sparta would go up.

4. If the parent team of a Jong-team gets relegated from the Eredivisie to the KKD, then the Jong-team automatically relegates to the Tweede Divisie. For example AZ gets relegated to the KKD, then Jong AZ automatically is relegated to the Tweede Divisie. This relegation will automatically block the relegation of another Jong-team as described in rules 2 and 3. It is not stated which team will be promoted to the KKD, but one could assume this will be the highest ranked Jong-team (unless its parent team is already in the KKD). FC Volendam currently plays in the KKD, so Jong Volendam can't get promoted. 

 

The rules for relegation from the Tweede Divisie and promotion from the reserves league is almost identical. 

 

So basically Jong Feyenoord could win the reserves league 10 years in a row, but if in that same period neither of the 2 Jong teams in the Tweede Divisie finishes in the bottom half of that league, then Jong Feyenoord will never be promoted.

 

I believe this promotion-relegation system is not in the game.

[BlingFC]

11 hours ago, 0tto0o said:

It is quite a complicated system. At the start of the current season some changes were made to allow Jong teams a second chance to get into the pyramid, just like DoubleR said (Feyenoord that is, who didn’t want to at first, but now see the benefit teams like Ajax and PSV have with a team on the second level). If we would ignore the competitions besides the top 2 divisions being stopped this season due to COVID, the situation would have been as follows:

 

In the KKD (first division) there are 4 Jong-teams (Ajax, PSV, Utrecht & AZ).

On level below that, you have the Tweede Divisie (second division), with 2 Jong-teams (Sparta & Volendam). Those are the Jong teams in the regular competition. Below that level the Jong-team have their own league, the league in which Jong Feyenoord won the league in your game.

 

For a Jong team to get promoted or relegated, there are lots of complicated rules. If we look at the 4 teams in the KKD, the rules for them to be relegated are as follows:

 

1. If all Jong-teams finish in the top half (top 10) of the league, none will be relegated and therefor none will be promoted from the Tweede divisie (The number of Jong teams in the KKD and the Tweede Divisie is fixed).

2. If one of the Jong-teams in the Tweede divisie is crowned champion, it will play a home and away play-off with the worst KKD Jong-team (only if that team also finished 11th or lower (rule 1)) for promotion/relegation.

3. If the worst KKD Jong-team finishes 19th or 20th and the best Tweede Divisie Jong-team finishes 1st or 2nd in the Tweede Divisie, then there will be automatic promotion and relegation without a play-off. So if Jong AZ finishes 19th, Jong Utrecht 20th in the KKD and Jong Sparta finishes 1st and Jong Volendam finishes 2nd, then Jong Utrecht would go down and Jong Sparta would go up.

4. If the parent team of a Jong-team gets relegated from the Eredivisie to the KKD, then the Jong-team automatically relegates to the Tweede Divisie. For example AZ gets relegated to the KKD, then Jong AZ automatically is relegated to the Tweede Divisie. This relegation will automatically block the relegation of another Jong-team as described in rules 2 and 3. It is not stated which team will be promoted to the KKD, but one could assume this will be the highest ranked Jong-team (unless its parent team is already in the KKD). FC Volendam currently plays in the KKD, so Jong Volendam can't get promoted. 

 

The rules for relegation from the Tweede Divisie and promotion from the reserves league is almost identical. 

 

So basically Jong Feyenoord could win the reserves league 10 years in a row, but if in that same period neither of the 2 Jong teams in the Tweede Divisie finishes in the bottom half of that league, then Jong Feyenoord will never be promoted.

 

I believe this promotion-relegation system is not in the game.

Wow super confusing but thankyou for the info

[Samelders]

What happened to the Dutch transfer system? Before Dutch clubs almost only were buying Dutch players.. Now it's suddenly the other way around. Look at the Ajax squad in 2026..

First it was far too focused on Dutch players for the Dutch league, but this is i.m.o. too much focused on foreigners. Anyone else getting these results?

 

 

[DoubleR]

22 hours ago, Samelders said:

What happened to the Dutch transfer system? Before Dutch clubs almost only were buying Dutch players.. Now it's suddenly the other way around. Look at the Ajax squad in 2026..

First it was far too focused on Dutch players for the Dutch league, but this is i.m.o. too much focused on foreigners. Anyone else getting these results?

 

 

Damn that looks bad.. guessing its a new save?? 

[Samelders]

On 22/03/2021 at 16:52, DoubleR said:

Damn that looks bad.. guessing its a new save?? 

Started this with the first winter update, indeed!

[Cid]

On 23/02/2021 at 08:38, JulesD said:

Has this been fixed in the patch @Reddiablo? Couldn't find it in the patch notes.

I have a similar problem to JulesD I think but not quite the same. I am managing Helmond Sport in the Keuken Kampioen.

I have definitely not selected 'Automatically make unfit first team players available for this team' in the U18 Match Day options.

But every week I have players who play for the U18s and I don't seem to be able to stop it. I try to pick them and I get the message 'Players cannot feature for both the first team and B team in the same week (Under-23 players are exempt) (Currently x)'

x being a number obviously. I have no B team but the players in question are indeed playing for the U18s, I can see it on their individual form pages. For example, in the January transfer window I have bought a new 24-year-old, Dutch, first-choice goalkeeper. He plays for the U18s and I can't pick him for the first team. The only way I can make it stop is to make my other goalkeeper available for the U18s (which in turn means he can't be sub keeper on first team duty).

Seem there's obviously a bug with this. I can supply the save game if necessary.

[DoubleR]

On 25/03/2021 at 12:24, Samelders said:

Started this with the first winter update, indeed!

I’ve seen this on my save now too which wasn’t started on this patch but on the last; most Dutch clubs have 5 Dutch players at the most... really ruins the experience lol