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[England Premier Division] Data Issues


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15 saat önce, McClane29 said:

FAO the Arsenal researcher, this could fall in the German data issues, but since Guendouzi is still an Arsenal player my reasoning is more appropriate here.

Obviously, with Matteo Guendouzi being loaned out to Hertha BSC it signifies that he isn't in Arteta's plans. However, we all know this came down to disciplinary matters (vs Brighton) more than his actual performances.

It appears that Guendouzi has suffered in his attributes in FM21 unfairly in my opinion. Last season he was considered a wonderkid in the game and an absolute work house. However, in the beta, he has lost his only player trait of 'Dictates Tempo' and has had significant decreases to his: Determination, Teamwork and Work Rate attributes. I would like to suggest that his player trait is rightly restored and the attributes I previously mentioned are restored to similar levels to where they were in FM20.

We will wait to see if he can work his way back into Arteta's plans next season in the real world following a good loan at Hertha, but please don't write him off as an average player because of his temperment. I watched him in a game live last season (I'm not an Arsenal fan) and was amazed how he controlled the game. Excellent talent who I'm sure will prove people wrong.

i absolutely agree with you,but we may be late for this request i think full version is almost ready

Edited by jfkk
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West Ham not playing players where they should be playing

After simulating a season it's become very clear that the AI manager still prefers to play Rice CB when he's not even playing CB in real life( Rice has also never been that good as a CB)  and also Noble is still getting starts.

Maybe if Rice doesn't have CB as an accomplished Position he will get picked to start MC ? Who knows not sure how this game decides it apart from likely just being based on ability.

Noble always starts, even ahead of Soucek and Dawson is often starting ahead of Ogbonna who is pretty much always an automatic choice in the starting 11.

Soucek isn't getting consistent starts and not with Rice in midfield.

Noble needs a downgrade yet he's stayed the same with his ability

More on Dawson, he was terrible for Watford and Ogbonna was one of West Hams most consistent players last season and continuing to be this season.

He should of had a boost to match his performances

Ogbonna to only have 12 tackling I find interesting, Dawson seems to have better tackling stats but in truth IRL he can't even make the bench unless injuries happen.

Coufal as i've said is very bad with his stats, <edited drivel> with his anticipation and technical stats.

It should be very clear already how much of an improvement he is over Fredericks , Ryans distribution is poor but Coufal has proven to be far more productive going fwd and obviously defending also. Fredericks just has more pace that's it.

Cresswell is still starting as a Wing back when Masuaku should be a certain start there and also Cresswell isn't seen as a CB only once in a Full moon.

Maybe Masuaku deserves a boost to make him be more useable for Wing back, his dribbling could be higher still!

So that is another issue for me if we want West Ham to replicate real life lines up.

Overall I respect the opinions of the scouts but <edited statement with no respect is shown>.

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, TheGhanaBoy said:

I'm just mentioning it because in fm20 he was taller and transfermarkt also says he taller

 

The info you get on TM can vary wildly on quality/accuracy. It's an excellent site but it's always worth double checking anything you see on there elsewhere, as a rule.

https://www.premierleague.com/players/50989/Claudio-Gomes/overview

That said, this could still be wrong, but he's always looked a lot closer to this sort of height to my eye!

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On 21/11/2020 at 20:24, McClane29 said:

FAO the Arsenal researcher, this could fall in the German data issues, but since Guendouzi is still an Arsenal player my reasoning is more appropriate here.

Obviously, with Matteo Guendouzi being loaned out to Hertha BSC it signifies that he isn't in Arteta's plans. However, we all know this came down to disciplinary matters (vs Brighton) more than his actual performances.

It appears that Guendouzi has suffered in his attributes in FM21 unfairly in my opinion. Last season he was considered a wonderkid in the game and an absolute work house. However, in the beta, he has lost his only player trait of 'Dictates Tempo' and has had significant decreases to his: Determination, Teamwork and Work Rate attributes. I would like to suggest that his player trait is rightly restored and the attributes I previously mentioned are restored to similar levels to where they were in FM20.

We will wait to see if he can work his way back into Arteta's plans next season in the real world following a good loan at Hertha, but please don't write him off as an average player because of his temperment. I watched him in a game live last season (I'm not an Arsenal fan) and was amazed how he controlled the game. Excellent talent who I'm sure will prove people wrong.

Yes, he has had well documented discipline problems, but on reflection I actually felt I overrated him a little last year after his very promising progress and I feel what I have set for this season is fair.  It wasn't just discipline problems he had.  His on field performances fell away as well.  Drops to his determination and team work are fully justified.  His teamwork could arguably even have gone down further.  His work rate is 15 and I think this is also accurate.  Please look into exactly what these attributes cover, you can see a description by hovering over the attribute on the player profile.  Of course, the appropriate members of the Germany research teams will be reviewing him in the next major research update and I will be keeping a keen eye on his progress too, of course.  I hope he sorts his attitude out and progresses as a player this season.  He isn't rated as an "average" player in FM21, his CA hasn't dropped much at all and his PA is such that he has every chance in game of fulfilling the clear potential he has if you manage his attitude correctly.  This will also have to be the case in real life and I hope it works out for him at Arsenal.

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On 21/11/2020 at 16:44, NDavis95 said:

Mari being suggested as vice captain first season which I would suggest is not quite right. Thanks

 

image.thumb.png.9aac7c2824e9a2f3de981cc324dcd118.png 

The leadership attribute will have been set by the previous researcher.  Mari got injured early on after joining and I didn't get to see him play much at all, none of us did, so I did not have any reason to drastically reduce his leadership attribute from what it was previously.  I agree that regardless of his leadership attribute being 14, he shouldn't be recommended as vice captain, but this would be an issue for the gameplay team, which covers the code which determines suggestions of suitable captains.  Please post in the "All Other Gameplay" forum and explain why Pablo Mari shouldn't be recommended as vice captain - I'd suggest his limited time at the club; his low position in the hierarchy; his relatively low CA in terms of the first team; and anything else you might consider relevant.

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Hey,

Not sure if this has been brought to attention yet but posting just in case as this doesn't make sense:
image.thumb.png.a51375341a63289844b1b90f0179ef22.png
Florent Indalecio has a 2012/2013 player history and then a 7 year gap? 

image.thumb.png.16f7fbf6dac4d5ed0b0970afc6863c0b.pngI understand it "could" happen, but he is only 23 ....

 

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5 minutes ago, Kieran87 said:

Hey,

Not sure if this has been brought to attention yet but posting just in case as this doesn't make sense:
image.thumb.png.a51375341a63289844b1b90f0179ef22.png
Florent Indalecio has a 2012/2013 player history and then a 7 year gap? 

image.thumb.png.16f7fbf6dac4d5ed0b0970afc6863c0b.pngI understand it "could" happen, but he is only 23 ....

 

Thanks @Kieran87 - he has been out of the professional/semi-professional game for years, as detailed in this article:

https://www.themag.co.uk/2020/10/remarkable-story-as-allan-saint-maximins-friend-florent-indalecio-wins-newcastle-contract-newcastle-united/

 

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20 hours ago, Rockywhu said:

West Ham not playing players where they should be playing

After simulating a season it's become very clear that the AI manager still prefers to play Rice CB when he's not even playing CB in real life( Rice has also never been that good as a CB)  and also Noble is still getting starts.

Maybe if Rice doesn't have CB as an accomplished Position he will get picked to start MC ? Who knows not sure how this game decides it apart from likely just being based on ability.

Noble always starts, even ahead of Soucek and Dawson is often starting ahead of Ogbonna who is pretty much always an automatic choice in the starting 11.

Soucek isn't getting consistent starts and not with Rice in midfield.

Noble needs a downgrade yet he's stayed the same with his ability

More on Dawson, he was terrible for Watford and Ogbonna was one of West Hams most consistent players last season and continuing to be this season.

He should of had a boost to match his performances

Ogbonna to only have 12 tackling I find interesting, Dawson seems to have better tackling stats but in truth IRL he can't even make the bench unless injuries happen.

Coufal as i've said is very bad with his stats, <edited drivel> with his anticipation and technical stats.

It should be very clear already how much of an improvement he is over Fredericks , Ryans distribution is poor but Coufal has proven to be far more productive going fwd and obviously defending also. Fredericks just has more pace that's it.

Cresswell is still starting as a Wing back when Masuaku should be a certain start there and also Cresswell isn't seen as a CB only once in a Full moon.

Maybe Masuaku deserves a boost to make him be more useable for Wing back, his dribbling could be higher still!

So that is another issue for me if we want West Ham to replicate real life lines up.

Overall I respect the opinions of the scouts but <edited statement with no respect is shown>.

 

 

 

Thank you for your input @Rockywhu.  Changes have been made to many of the players since the beta version was released, and in the release version the AI Moyes should be selecting a team closer to the one that you would expect, more often.

Getting the AI Moyes to play the same players in the same positions as he did two weeks ago in real life is good, but it is not the be-all and end-all of FM research.  We also try to replicate the difference in nuance between players.  Sometimes there is very little to choose between players vying for a place in the starting line-up and the AI manager will select a different team from the one that you feel the real manager would select.  Even with that sometimes being the case, the West Ham team that you want to select should be among the very best of available options.

Cresswell will perform well at centre back.  Have you tried managing as West Ham and playing him there, as well as running a season on soak?  Cresswell has spent the vast majority of his playing career as a DL/WBL.  He also plays well as a left-sided DC in a three-at-the-back formation.  That is how he has been rated.

 

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On 21/11/2020 at 19:55, pilky1998 said:

Burnley have a technical director, Mike Rigg who doesnt seem to be in the game at all.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mike-rigg-131a7478

@pilky1998 - thank you for pointing this out; it was indeed missed - sorry.  I have made the change in the database, but I'm afraid that it will not make it into the release version of the game.

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I watched Wolves against Leicester two weeks ago and noticed one thing, that is not represented properly in FM21: The speed of James Justin and/or Nelson Semedo. Both started the game and had a few running duels throughout the game. James Justin was a lot quicker then Nelson Semedo, both in acceleration and top speed. Made Semedo look quite slow to be honest. Currently Semedo is quicker in FM21. So either Semedo is too quick or James Justin is too slow. I guess a bit of both, with the bigger deviation on James Justin's side. He is really one of the quickest players in the PL by now, this is underrepresented currently. He really should be faster then Semedo by at least 2 points. 

Lamptey has already been covered but i saw almost every game of Brighton over 90 minutes this season and the rest in analysis (MOTD and alike). He really is the stand-out player of them this season, not in potential but in current ability already. Tears through defenses, very good crosses, master in dribbling and also decent in defending himself. Vastly underrated.

 

 

[Grealish has been covered in the thread as well, just want to highlight this again - after de Bruyne the best offensive midfielder this season.

Shola Shoretire's potential ability is too low in my opinion. He is celebrated amongst Uniteds youth academy as greatest talent in a decade, even more so then Rashford or Greenwood, but he still doesn't really stand out in United's academy in FM. The same mistake was already made with Rashford and Greenwood back when they have been aged 16...they rarely became the players they are today. Compared to the over-rating of every second Barca youth player (most ending up at lower sides), I don't understand that.]

-> those are fine i guess

 

 

Edited by Celestiale
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1 minute ago, Celestiale said:

Lamptey has already been covered but i saw almost every game of Brighton over 90 minutes this season and the rest in analysis (MOTD and alike). He really is the stand-out player of them this season, not in potential but in current ability already. Tears through defenses, very good crosses, master in dribbling and also decent in defending himself. Vastly underrated.

Grealish has been covered in the thread as well, just want to highlight this again - after de Bruyne the best offensive midfielder this season.

Shola Shoretire's potential ability is too low in my opinion. He is celebrated amongst Uniteds youth academy as greatest talent in a decade, even more so then Rashford or Greenwood, but he still doesn't really stand out in United's academy in FM. The same mistake was already made with Rashford and Greenwood back when they have been aged 16...they rarely became the players they are today. Compared to the over-rating of every second Barca youth player (most ending up at lower sides), I don't understand that. 

Lamptey is still kinda raw though. And shows a lot of naivety so it makes sense that SI aren't going too far with him.

As for Shoretire, isn't his potential variable?

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Some positive feedback:

Partly down to the amount of people posting about them in here, I signed both Lamptey and Grealish to see how they perform in the ME.

They both perform very well with realistic G/A contributions and match ratings. Both consistently delivered around 7.20 avg rating over the course of a season as part of a successful team. Lamptey especially performs realistically- despite his limited technical/mental attributes, his physicality makes him effective at both ends of the pitch.

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13 minutes ago, Celestiale said:

I watched Wolves against Leicester two weeks ago and noticed one thing, that is not represented properly in FM21: The speed of James Justin and/or Nelson Semedo. Both started the game and had a few running duels throughout the game. James Justin was a lot quicker then Nelson Semedo, both in acceleration and top speed. Made Semedo look quite slow to be honest. Currently Semedo is quicker in FM21. So either Semedo is too quick or James Justin is too slow. I guess a bit of both, with the bigger deviation on James Justin's side. He is really one of the quickest players in the PL by now, this is underrepresented currently. He really should be faster then Semedo by at least 2 points. 

Lamptey has already been covered but i saw almost every game of Brighton over 90 minutes this season and the rest in analysis (MOTD and alike). He really is the stand-out player of them this season, not in potential but in current ability already. Tears through defenses, very good crosses, master in dribbling and also decent in defending himself. Vastly underrated.

Grealish has been covered in the thread as well, just want to highlight this again - after de Bruyne the best offensive midfielder this season.

Shola Shoretire's potential ability is too low in my opinion. He is celebrated amongst Uniteds youth academy as greatest talent in a decade, even more so then Rashford or Greenwood, but he still doesn't really stand out in United's academy in FM. The same mistake was already made with Rashford and Greenwood back when they have been aged 16...they rarely became the players they are today. Compared to the over-rating of every second Barca youth player (most ending up at lower sides), I don't understand that. 

 

 

Shoretire has a very good random PA set which if he hits the high end of will make him better than most existing players at Utd. 

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14 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

Lamptey is still kinda raw though. And shows a lot of naivety so it makes sense that SI aren't going too far with him.

 

11 minutes ago, Smallen said:

Lamptey especially performs realistically- despite his limited technical/mental attributes, his physicality makes him effective at both ends of the pitch.

Definitely agree on "raw" and limited mental attributes. But i think in real life his technique is quite good for a defender, especially in dribbling and long balls / crosses.

 

Good to hear the "test" on Grealish, hope that is happening in AI controlled teams as well.

4 minutes ago, metal_guitarist said:

Shoretire has a very good random PA set which if he hits the high end of will make him better than most existing players at Utd. 

Good to hear, thank you. Where can i check this "random PA" in FM21?

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4 minutes ago, Celestiale said:

Good to hear, thank you. Where can i check this "random PA" in FM21?

You'll be able to use the pre-game editor to view the range that was assigned to him and the in-game editor to view the exact PA he has once both are released with the game tomorrow. 

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On 21/11/2020 at 15:40, tomlcfc said:

As @metal_guitarist says, I've explained my reasoning for a rating as low as 11 earlier in the thread but I'm happy to repeat myself in replying directly to you.

It's telling that no Leicester fan flagged it up when it was also 11 throughout FM20 (and similarly low in FM19 as I recall) - that's because it was accurate. Ben Chilwell's final 12-18 months at Leicester City were average to say the least, forwards and backwards, although now we know the guy struggled with some mental health problems, particularly last season, which I'm sure influenced things. His crossing, for me, was never very good but in a side that began to dominate the ball under Claude Puel and then rely on full-backs more so under Rodgers, it was exposed massively. I was (and still am) not a very good player myself, but I know you have to get your full body weight behind the ball, and ideally strike a moving ball, to get a whipped or floated ball into the box. Far too often I've seen Chilwell lean back, kill the ball dead and try to put in a cross that ends up flat, weak and easily cleared at waist height. Perhaps that's exacerbated by the fact I sit in the top left corner of the King Power Stadium, so half of his crosses were right in front of my eyes...

I've not seen much of Chelsea this season (blame screen fatigue for my lack of interest in watching games as a neutral), but my close friend is an avid Chelsea fan and he is very impressed with his improvement in this regard. Whether it is simply a confidence thing, or someone has taken him to one side to discuss his technique (I note Steve Holland has been working with him on dead ball situations with England), I don't know, but there is clearly an improvement. 

Looking at the database, I think an upgrade to his crossing and a couple of other attributes has been signed off by Philip already, whether that will be included in the full release I'm not 100% sure. Cheers!

@Atomichazza & @tomlcfc - thanks; we did get in an improvement to Chilwell's Crossing rating before the data was locked.

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I guess it's more related to data issue, I agree with Vinai having a role of DoF at Arsenal. But since Raul Sanlehi left it was temporary. Arsenal should be able to hire a new DoF without a board blocking it. Since Vinai has a dual role.

Also why is he Indian? He was born in UK, and should be English.

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On 21/11/2020 at 14:59, mark davis said:

Everton

Areas to consider 

Richarilson: injury prone again whereas he rarely misses games through injuries. Also Jumping and heading  are below what you would expect based on recent seasons plus finishing and composure/otb seem low. Also he'll cut inside given the chance

Mason Holgate: had a break out season last year seems like has been downgraded 

Allan: trait of doesnt dive into tackles doesn't make sense for a ball winning mid  should be removed as conflicts with his role 

James Rodriguez: passing of 15 ...suggest 17/18 

Calvert-Lewin: International stats not correct 

Thanks 

 

Thanks @mark davis

- Richarlison; Injury proneness appears to be a little high, though he plays around 33-35 league matches per season in soak tests that I have seen.  His Jumping Reach is set as "above average" for his height, and he has a very good Heading rating.

- Holgate; has been improved since last season.

- Allan; admittedly I haven't seen a vast amount of Allan's pre-Everton matches, but from what I have seen it looks like he prefers to avoid diving into tackles where possilbe, staying on his feet and using his upper body strength to win the ball in challenges.

- Calvert-Lewin; what should his international stats be, please?  They look correct to me (17/7 U21 apps/goals).

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4 hours ago, Pete Sottrel said:

Thank you for your input @Rockywhu.  Changes have been made to many of the players since the beta version was released, and in the release version the AI Moyes should be selecting a team closer to the one that you would expect, more often.

Getting the AI Moyes to play the same players in the same positions as he did two weeks ago in real life is good, but it is not the be-all and end-all of FM research.  We also try to replicate the difference in nuance between players.  Sometimes there is very little to choose between players vying for a place in the starting line-up and the AI manager will select a different team from the one that you feel the real manager would select.  Even with that sometimes being the case, the West Ham team that you want to select should be among the very best of available options.

Cresswell will perform well at centre back.  Have you tried managing as West Ham and playing him there, as well as running a season on soak?  Cresswell has spent the vast majority of his playing career as a DL/WBL.  He also plays well as a left-sided DC in a three-at-the-back formation.  That is how he has been rated.

 

Fair enough .

Apologies if i've come across as being disrespectful.

My main aim is trying to help the game become even more realistic as I believe FM is the closest realistic football simulation out there.

 

 

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On 12/11/2020 at 17:58, AmILateToTheParty said:

Jarrod Bowen has :
Very Strong - Right Foot

 Reasonable - Left Foot

Presumably this isn't correct as he is left footed and is known to cut in and shoot with his left.

It is correct because he has put plenty of decent right footed crosses in unlike Yarma who always overplays everything

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On 10/11/2020 at 20:40, Rags89 said:

Point: Grealish has very little improvements in attributes. He is in the top 5-20 players in the league easily it would be nice if that was reflected, on form atm only Kane/Fernandes are arguably ahead. Suggested Changes: Dribbling 16 > 18, 1st Touch 15 >16, Technique 15 > 16, Passing 14 > 17, Composure 14 > 15, Acceleration 14 > 16, Pace 13 > 14, Balance 14 > 18, Jumping 7 > 10. Evidence: See below, happy to provide more upon request but not wanting to clog up the thread too much. 

EmZ-6WBW8AA4kU_.jpg

EmddXx8WMAEZeKb.jpg

Very good player Grealish but i'm not convinced his finishing should be 15 which is the case on the beta, this is higher than most strikers within the game & Mason Mount who I consider to be a better goalscoring midfielder has 14 for Finishing.

For Grealish I think 12 is fair to replicate his real life finishing

So maybe a boost in other areas but he isn't that good of a goalscoring midfielder imho when you look at his career as a whole and when i've watched him play which is many many times

Great first touch and dribbling, confidence so boost to his mental stats and speed but seems to lack that end product with his finishing.

Edited by Rockywhu
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12 minutes ago, Rockywhu said:

Very good player Grealish but i'm not convinced his finishing should be 15 which is the case on the beta, this is higher than most strikers within the game & Mason Mount who I consider to be a better goalscoring midfielder has 14 for Finishing.

For Grealish I think 12 is fair to replicate his real life finishing

So maybe a boost in other areas but he isn't that good of a goalscoring midfielder imho when you look at his career as a whole and when i've watched him play which is many many times

Great first touch and dribbling, confidence so boost to his mental stats and speed but seems to lack that end product with his finishing.

I'd say the reason why he doesn't score often is more his positioning and less bad finishing. He just doesn't get into a finishing position very often. At least the last half year or so he has been very clinical if in front of goal. 

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3 hours ago, Celestiale said:

I watched Wolves against Leicester two weeks ago and noticed one thing, that is not represented properly in FM21: The speed of James Justin and/or Nelson Semedo. Both started the game and had a few running duels throughout the game. James Justin was a lot quicker then Nelson Semedo, both in acceleration and top speed. Made Semedo look quite slow to be honest. Currently Semedo is quicker in FM21. So either Semedo is too quick or James Justin is too slow. I guess a bit of both, with the bigger deviation on James Justin's side. He is really one of the quickest players in the PL by now, this is underrepresented currently. He really should be faster then Semedo by at least 2 points. 

Semedo is quicker by one point for Pace I believe (16v15) which I think you'll see in the match engine is quite negligible.

I really disagree he is one of the quickest players in the league though. He's not slow but he's not necessarily got the speed and energy to play the wing-back role as well as he finds playing as the 'wide' CB in a 3-4-2-1 shape, for me - I don't recall him galloping past players like I've seen many players at full-back do. 15 is a very good rating still, anything higher really should be lightning quick and one of a player's standout attributes. I've not seen much of Semedo but I do know he was highly touted for being rapid at Benfica and then Barcelona - perhaps this is one for @DaveAzzopardi to consider for January or beyond.

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1 hour ago, tomlcfc said:

Semedo is quicker by one point for Pace I believe (16v15) which I think you'll see in the match engine is quite negligible.

I really disagree he is one of the quickest players in the league though. He's not slow but he's not necessarily got the speed and energy to play the wing-back role as well as he finds playing as the 'wide' CB in a 3-4-2-1 shape, for me - I don't recall him galloping past players like I've seen many players at full-back do. 15 is a very good rating still, anything higher really should be lightning quick and one of a player's standout attributes. I've not seen much of Semedo but I do know he was highly touted for being rapid at Benfica and then Barcelona - perhaps this is one for @DaveAzzopardi to consider for January or beyond.

Semedo also has a better acceleration in FM (better by 2 or 3 points if i remember right). Thing is, the difference should not be negligible at all, but Justin should be quite a bit quicker, at least by 2 points in both acceleration and topspeed. Semedo was rapid at Benfica and Barcelona, probably the fastest player at Barcelona. I don't know if there was a dip in top speed, i wouldn't know why at his age. So the point still stands - Justin is quite a bit quicker then the "rapid" Semedo.

Justin was galloping past players in the last two or 3 games, the problem is, he is not as fast with the ball as without. His not-very-good control of the ball / dribbling skill probably makes him look slower as he really is. I think Semedo should have one less in top speed and acceleration, while Justin should have 2 more in speed and 3 more in acceleration. Even the pundits at MOTD praised his pace against Wolves. Was the fastest player on the pitch bar Adama.

 

I just checked Wolves and also found a few talking points in general:

I think Pedro Neto and Daniel Podence are not good enough, at least compared to Adama Traore. I know the stars don't tell too much about the overall ability, but it still gives an indication. Both only have 2,5 stars CA and Adama has 3,5. Yet, Podence and Neto are the regular starters, while Adama is only a sub. And with good reason. In the following i will just have a look at Pedro Neto and the direct comparison to Adama:

Finishing: Currently: Neto 12; Adama: 10; Suggested: Neto: 14; Adama: 8-9; Neto is quite a good finisher, it's actually a strength of him, while it's probably one of the biggest weaknesses of Adama. My TV sightings, backed by whoscored data (links see below).

Crossing: Currently: Neto 13; Adama: 12; Suggested: Neto: 15; Adama 12-13; Neto had a few real bonkers crosses this season already, i think he is one of the best crossers in the PL. Also a "strength" in Whoscored, alongside his strongest ability "key passes". Adama has also been quite good in crossing the last year or so (finally).

Long shots: Currently: Neto 11; Adama: 11; Suggested: Neto: 13-14; also one of his strong traits, had already a few "rockets" saved this year from long distance, also a whoscored "strength"

Flair: Currently: Neto: 16; Adama: 18; Suggested: Neto 17; Adama: 15; can't quantify, but i think Neto on the ball just looks more delicate and harder to predict for defenders then Adama, who beats them with his raw pace.

Most mental abilities: both are not really good, which is quite realistic imo.

Acceleration/Speed: Neto seems about right with 15/16, but 20/20 is too much for Adama. The crazy thing regarding Adama is his speed and pace combined with his strength, which is quite unique in world football, but not his isolated raw pace. I would give 18/19.

Agility: Currently: Neto 13; Adama 15; Suggested: Neto: 14; Adama: 15; Neto is a real agile dribbler, i wouldn't say he is far off Adama, if at all

Strength: Currently: Neto 7; Adama: 17; Suggested: Neto: 11-12; Adama: 17; 7, alongside 11 balance, would indicate he is a blade of grass that can be pushed away from the ball quite easy. This is not at all the case, he is quite hard to push of the ball, especially for his young age and can also hold onto the ball quite well. (again, backed by whoscored data).

Neto: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/337916/Show/Pedro-Neto

Adama: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/140088/Show/Adama-Traoré

Implementing these changes would probably make both equally effective, which more or less resembles reality. Same goes for Daniel Podence, just didn't have the time now to go into detail with him unfortunately. 

Edited by Celestiale
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2 hours ago, Celestiale said:

Semedo also has a better acceleration in FM (better by 2 or 3 points if i remember right). Thing is, the difference should not be negligible at all, but Justin should be quite a bit quicker, at least by 2 points in both acceleration and topspeed. Semedo was rapid at Benfica and Barcelona, probably the fastest player at Barcelona. I don't know if there was a dip in top speed, i wouldn't know why at his age. So the point still stands - Justin is quite a bit quicker then the "rapid" Semedo.

Justin was galloping past players in the last two or 3 games, the problem is, he is not as fast with the ball as without. His not-very-good control of the ball / dribbling skill probably makes him look slower as he really is. I think Semedo should have one less in top speed and acceleration, while Justin should have 2 more in speed and 3 more in acceleration. Even the pundits at MOTD praised his pace against Wolves. Was the fastest player on the pitch bar Adama.

It's something I'll keep an eye on, for sure. I just don't think he's got the outstanding pace you are talking about - 17 pace and 18 acceleration is scintillatingly quick, quicker than I've got Jamie Vardy or Harvey Barnes for instance.

It will be useful to compare him to more wingers and full-backs and see if he is losing races - it could easily be a case of Semedo bulking out as he's got older to adapt to more physical leagues which can often damage your top speed.

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5 hours ago, Celestiale said:

I'd say the reason why he doesn't score often is more his positioning and less bad finishing. He just doesn't get into a finishing position very often. At least the last half year or so he has been very clinical if in front of goal. 

Well from what i've seen he doesn't place his shots far enough away from the Goalkeeper to have a 15 finish.

Not saying he is a bad finisher just think a rating  of 15 is far too high for him.

It's not a strong point for him based on what i've seen, he's not a clinical finisher at all for me, maybe having a purple patch recently but he isn't

getting the numbers to deserve a 15 finish in each season.

Hasn't scored for England either in 5 matches

Players like Yarmolenko are a better finishers than him and he has 14 finishing,...Danny Ings & Lacazette both have 15 finishing so it doesn't really add up , this is my main point.

Sterling has 14 finishing, Rashford 14 finishing , Martial 15, Lewin 15... see what I mean ?

Better goalscoring midfielders & Strikers who are better finishers have lower/same finishing as Grealish.

 

 

 

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A few more bits on West Ham

Haller's stats need to be looked at because even Joelinton has better heading than he does.

I believe Haller is underrated also with his vision slightly and massively with his heading ability.

He should have at least 15 for Heading and his finishing should be 14 because he's done very well to score the goals he has done for West Ham last season and this season with very limited service. 

Watching the games when he's played he honestly doesn't get many chances.

Fans have seen glimpses of class with his finishing &  technical ability when he has got good service.

I have seen every game and he often makes a lot of good runs but the midfield often do not execute the passes well to him.

Often he is left as a frustrated figure because of it

Anyway as we saw vs Sheff Utd he didnt get any service and then he scored a goal shooting from long range himself.

He has always been a good goalscorer, proved it in the German League also so I think his stats should replicate this a bit more.

Vs Wolves he came on and scored with his only header in 5 mins, scored in the cup games and was clinical when he got the service.

He isn't just a standard Targetman, he is a good technical player with his feet, so I didn't understand why Haller's technique dropped from 13-12.

I was actually expecting his technique to rise to 14 and his vision is also a solid 13 for me.

You don't score the goals he has done without being a good technical striker, plus all the assists for Jovic, there have been plenty of examples of this like he is very good at volley shots also.

Antonio I think he deserves a better off the ball than 12 & 17 strength with more pace as 15 is too low for him.

He has the same Pace as Haller

Edited by Rockywhu
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