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[England Premier Division] Data Issues


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13 minutes ago, swordy9320 said:

This shows a problem in how you address these issues.

It relies on the idea that we know:

1.  Enough about how the stats interact with the match engine to recommend changes

2.  Enough about not just the players but players at other clubs too in order to provide comparative value

3.  Enough about how a team is generating the results that it is and what specific causation we can do to change that

 

 

Quote shortened for space.

 

In my save Man Utd are 6th and 19 points off top. So it's not a case of MU winning the first season on every save. I believe SI also run thousands of simulated first seasons during QA testing to determine if there are any irregular patterns with teams over or under performing. Yes in some saves they will over achieve, as will other teams in other saves, others will struggle (Ipswich are facing relegation from L1 in my game as a standout example) compared to real life. If there are irregularities it will likely be rectified prior to the full release next week.

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42 minutes ago, Brentford Alan said:

Hines retired from playing due to injury. He is in the database as an unemployed U18 coach, but may not be loaded into every game.

Thanks - I tend to make the effort and move the staff to the club as a ‘Youth Coach’.

For example, Hines is U14 coach at WHU.

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@ClarkKent1 Thanks for the effort in your post again. Please note that +1/-1 won't make any noticeable difference within the game. Some of your attributes are slightly wrong (due to where you are in your Lazio save). You've put all this great effort in to Liverpool, yet you're playing with Lazio :D 

Milner - I agree with Fitness increase to 19, Composure increase to 16 with Dribbling down to 12 (now if poss but certainly for next update)

Thiago - Stated previously that I thought a number of his attributes/CA could be higher, however the Bayern researcher has seen him far more than I have and after 2 games for us I can't justify any changes until the Winter update.

Salah - I believe that combined with other attributes for penalty success he's ok at the moment

Matip - ok with him now, its hard to judge his consistency when he's injured so much mind

Jota - too early at the moment to consider a PA increase, he's had a small CA increase though

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@Brighton123 Its such a shame Lallana's injuries have taken such a toll on his career. He has had his CA dropped whilst at Liverpool therefore. I hope he can stay fit for Brighton, and if so hopefully he is worthy of an increased CA come the Winter update. As I said his role in the team for Liverpool may differ from Southampton and possibly Brighton too. For me I would wait until he's had a run of games before making any major changes. His right foot is 20 yet his left foot is 14 btw 

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4 hours ago, Come on ye pars said:

I'd also like to know why there is such a difference between the PA of Saka compared with Foden or Greenwood?  Saka showed last season how much potential he had, and is now in the England squad playing in competitive fixtures much like Greenwood (before his transgressions).  Saka has a PA lower than Mustafi.  I know Arsenal used to be rated very highly a few seasons ago, but it seems that certain players are not getting treated fairly because of it.  

If there was one player for who I was certain is gonna get his PA increased, it was Saka. This is really dissappointing. I don't know how much longer we need to wait to get him recognized as a top Premier League talent by the DB... It doesn't even need to be near Foden's, for example, but his 20.4.0. PA is definitely outdated. ''Lower' than Mustafi's'' tells me it stayed the same or decreased :(

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4 minutes ago, josipk said:

If there was one player for who I was certain is gonna get his PA increased, it was Saka. This is really dissappointing. I don't know how much longer we need to wait to get him recognized as a top Premier League talent by the DB... It doesn't even need to be near Foden's, for example, but his 20.4.0. PA is definitely outdated. ''Lower' than Mustafi's'' tells me it stayed the same or decreased :(

His PA has increased since FM20 and it allows him to become a good Premier League player.

 

Spoiler

He is only one PA point behind Mustafi, which is a tiny amount in-game.

 

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10 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

@Brighton123 Its such a shame Lallana's injuries have taken such a toll on his career. He has had his CA dropped whilst at Liverpool therefore. I hope he can stay fit for Brighton, and if so hopefully he is worthy of an increased CA come the Winter update. As I said his role in the team for Liverpool may differ from Southampton and possibly Brighton too. For me I would wait until he's had a run of games before making any major changes. His right foot is 20 yet his left foot is 14 btw 

Yeah agreed, is a massive shame as he comes across as a genuinely nice bloke too. My last post was just out of curiosity, hence not offering a suggested value for finishing. I'll wait to see if he rediscovers any goal scoring touch with Brighton for the Jan update. Cheers. 

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2 hours ago, lbowman6 said:

It was something I requested last year as most national teams have a technical director...No idea why it wasn’t added @John Wood

 

It would have been one of thousands, literally, of requested features to be considered for this year's game. And, after consideration from the Features producers and the Studio Director, and given the circumstances of this year's game, not considered important enough to make this cut this year, with the time allocated to programmers etc taken into consideration. We had to let a lot of planned features not make the cut this year for various reasons.

I understand that you are very vocal in demanding this role in the game, but you have not really added much in terms of what you want the game to do with those people if they were added to  the game. I suggest you return to that thread and post some supporting evidence to boost your argument.

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2 hours ago, lbowman6 said:

Thanks - I tend to make the effort and move the staff to the club as a ‘Youth Coach’.

For example, Hines is U14 coach at WHU.

The database doesn't allow the option to have people listed as U14 coaches. The lowest age group we have is U18s, for legal reasons.

 

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9 minutes ago, josipk said:

If there was one player for who I was certain is gonna get his PA increased, it was Saka. This is really dissappointing. I don't know how much longer we need to wait to get him recognized as a top Premier League talent by the DB... It doesn't even need to be near Foden's, for example, but his 20.4.0. PA is definitely outdated. ''Lower' than Mustafi's'' tells me it stayed the same or decreased :(

Hi there, I'm afraid you are looking at this in very FM terms and also not understanding how PA works.

Saka has made great progress very early on in his career.  He has established himself as a good first team player at a big club and I'm sure will make further improvements over the coming seasons.  However, while he has already proved himself as a reliable and exciting first team player, I don't believe he is a player that is going to go on to become one of the very best players in the world.  If he reaches his maximum PA in FM - which in a lot of saves he will do due to his young age and how the game mechanics work - he will go on to be a better player in the game than I actually believe it is likely he will ever be in real life.

So put simply, you're wrong here I'm afraid, unless you disagree with me about the likelihood of Saka becoming absolute top, top level in the future, one of the very best players in the world.  If so, you are quite at liberty to use the in game editor for things like this, to increase his PA to a level I have carefully considered to be unrealistically high.

I can confirm I decided to increase his PA from FM20 quite early on in the cycle so that has gone up.  Also Mustafi's PA is totally irrelevant as this will have been set years ago by a different researcher and we are told not to change PAs of players except in exceptional circumstances.  Mustafi will never reach his PA in FM21 (in fact it is unlikely his CA will increase at all) as in game terms he is no longer developing due to his age and certain other factors.

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14 minutes ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Hi there, I'm afraid you are looking at this in very FM terms and also not understanding how PA works.

Saka has made great progress very early on in his career.  He has established himself as a good first team player at a big club and I'm sure will make further improvements over the coming seasons.  However, while he has already proved himself as a reliable and exciting first team player, I don't believe he is a player that is going to go on to become one of the very best players in the world.  If he reaches his maximum PA in FM - which in a lot of saves he will do due to his young age and how the game mechanics work - he will go on to be a better player in the game than I actually believe it is likely he will ever be in real life.

So put simply, you're wrong here I'm afraid, unless you disagree with me about the likelihood of Saka becoming absolute top, top level in the future, one of the very best players in the world.  If so, you are quite at liberty to use the in game editor for things like this, to increase his PA to a level I have carefully considered to be unrealistically high.

I can confirm I decided to increase his PA from FM20 quite early on in the cycle so that has gone up.  Also Mustafi's PA is totally irrelevant as this will have been set years ago by a different researcher and we are told not to change PAs of players except in exceptional circumstances.  Mustafi will never reach his PA in FM21 (in fact it is unlikely his CA will increase at all) as in game terms he is no longer developing due to his age and certain other factors.

Sorry, how is Mustafi's PA irrelevant?  I get that it was set a while back and will not reach it in this game, but are you telling me that Mustafi at one point looked like he would be a better player than what Saka looks like he will ever be?  I'm sorry but I just do not believe you are rating Arsenal players fairly as is shown by the numerous people that have complained already.  I also don't think we should have to have to use the Editor for things like this, especially when the researcher is employed by SI.  I simply do not think you are being fair and am very surprised that you don't think Saka will be a great player when everything points out that he has the potential to be one.  Believe me, I'm not an English fan, but am pleased to see him play for England in competitive games and I believe he has not looked out of place.  If you are dead set on given him a set PA, then I think it should have been increased by a lot more than the marginal increase you gave.  May I suggest given him a minus PA then?

Can I ask about Martinelli then, who was described as a talent of the century by Jurgen Klopp? Do you think you can rate Martinelli better than one of the best managers in the game currently?

Sorry, I am now having a go and do feel bad for it, but I disagree with the PA of these two players and I think you'll find that most would agree that they are too low.  I'm not sure for future games if you'd step down as Arsenal researcher and let someone else take the reigns???

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2 minutes ago, Come on ye pars said:

Sorry, how is Mustafi's PA irrelevant?  I get that it was set a while back and will not reach it in this game, but are you telling me that Mustafi at one point looked like he would be a better player than what Saka looks like he will ever be?  I'm sorry but I just do not believe you are rating Arsenal players fairly as is shown by the numerous people that have complained already.  I also don't think we should have to have to use the Editor for things like this, especially when the researcher is employed by SI.  I simply do not think you are being fair and am very surprised that you don't think Saka will be a great player when everything points out that he has the potential to be one.  Believe me, I'm not an English fan, but am pleased to see him play for England in competitive games and I believe he has not looked out of place.  If you are dead set on given him a set PA, then I think it should have been increased by a lot more than the marginal increase you gave.  May I suggest given him a minus PA then?

Can I ask about Martinelli then, who was described as a talent of the century by Jurgen Klopp? Do you think you can rate Martinelli better than one of the best managers in the game currently?

Sorry, I am now having a go and do feel bad for it, but I disagree with the PA of these two players and I think you'll find that most would agree that they are too low.  I'm not sure for future games if you'd step down as Arsenal researcher and let someone else take the reigns???

Sorry, but most of this is nonsense and is not the sort of thing we should be allowing to be posted on a data bugs thread.  You're fine to disagree with the PA of these two players.  I've explained very clearly my thinking behind Saka's rating with reasoning and an explanation in terms of the game and real life.  I also explained the fact that I did not set Mustafi's PA and the fact that we are instructed not to alter PAs downwards for players like Mustafi.

As I've said before I'm extremely busy with QA work for SI and I don't have time to respond to personally directed, opinionated rants like this.  If I'm wrong about Real Madrid captain Saka, please come back and bump this thread in six or seven years as he lifts the European Super League trophy for the fifth season running and I'll hold my hands up and say you were right, Come on ye pars, you were right!  Until then, please vent your frustrations on the discussion forums and leave this thread for bugs, seriously.

 

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8 minutes ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Sorry, but most of this is nonsense and is not the sort of thing we should be allowing to be posted on a data bugs thread.  You're fine to disagree with the PA of these two players.  I've explained very clearly my thinking behind Saka's rating with reasoning and an explanation in terms of the game and real life.  I also explained the fact that I did not set Mustafi's PA and the fact that we are instructed not to alter PAs downwards for players like Mustafi.

As I've said before I'm extremely busy with QA work for SI and I don't have time to respond to personally directed, opinionated rants like this.  If I'm wrong about Real Madrid captain Saka, please come back and bump this thread in six or seven years as he lifts the European Super League trophy for the fifth season running and I'll hold my hands up and say you were right, Come on ye pars, you were right!  Until then, please vent your frustrations on the discussion forums and leave this thread for bugs, seriously.

 

You think it's correct that an employee of SI talks to someone in this way? Personally I wouldn't be allowed to speak to one of my customers this way so think it's poor.

Also, thank you for not answering about Martinelli or how we can get a new Arsenal researcher, thank you so much for that.  You are coming across as very arrogant and think thats a disgrace.  We must all bow down to your superior knowledge.  

I previously asked where attributes and CA/PA should be discussed where it would be taken seriously but was not informed where it should be discussed where the researchers would actually take things into consideration.

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59 minutes ago, Dean Gripton said:

The database doesn't allow the option to have people listed as U14 coaches. The lowest age group we have is U18s, for legal reasons.

I'll overlook what "tend to make the effort" was about.

I tend to make the effort and make the changes myself - I understand why the game does not permit >U18 staff in game! It wasn’t a moan :)

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1 hour ago, Dean Gripton said:

It would have been one of thousands, literally, of requested features to be considered for this year's game. And, after consideration from the Features producers and the Studio Director, and given the circumstances of this year's game, not considered important enough to make this cut this year, with the time allocated to programmers etc taken into consideration. We had to let a lot of planned features not make the cut this year for various reasons.

I understand that you are very vocal in demanding this role in the game, but you have not really added much in terms of what you want the game to do with those people if they were added to  the game. I suggest you return to that thread and post some supporting evidence to boost your argument.

Fair enough - I will re-open a thread!

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39 minutes ago, Come on ye pars said:

Sorry, how is Mustafi's PA irrelevant?  I get that it was set a while back and will not reach it in this game, but are you telling me that Mustafi at one point looked like he would be a better player than what Saka looks like he will ever be?  I'm sorry but I just do not believe you are rating Arsenal players fairly as is shown by the numerous people that have complained already.  I also don't think we should have to have to use the Editor for things like this, especially when the researcher is employed by SI.  I simply do not think you are being fair and am very surprised that you don't think Saka will be a great player when everything points out that he has the potential to be one.  Believe me, I'm not an English fan, but am pleased to see him play for England in competitive games and I believe he has not looked out of place.  If you are dead set on given him a set PA, then I think it should have been increased by a lot more than the marginal increase you gave.  May I suggest given him a minus PA then?

Can I ask about Martinelli then, who was described as a talent of the century by Jurgen Klopp? Do you think you can rate Martinelli better than one of the best managers in the game currently?

Sorry, I am now having a go and do feel bad for it, but I disagree with the PA of these two players and I think you'll find that most would agree that they are too low.  I'm not sure for future games if you'd step down as Arsenal researcher and let someone else take the reigns???

Wow. What does The Arsenal researcher gain by not rating fairly? A number of people have disagreed with certain attributes/CAs/PAs but that happens with all teams as they are opinions! What about those Arsenal fans that haven't disagreed? The editor is there as an option for you to use or not if you disagree on anything. JK did indeed rave about Martinelli but that still isn't a given that he will become a great player (one of the world's best RBs Cafu claimed Jon Flanagan was the next Cafu) and should be treated as such. You disagree, which is fine btw, with the PA of those two players (yet he will be responsible for c35000 bits of Arsenal data) but because he has a few items you disagree with you suggest he resign as the Arsenal researcher?

I understand the frustration but your post seems to be an overreaction that is plain rude and isn't going to endear you to debate. There's a point where you have to agree to disagree. As stated previously in this thread, ultimately its is the Researcher/SI that has the final decision.

Edited by diddydaddydoddy
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If people can’t act civilly in here then we will start removing people from the thread and if needbe the rest of the forum. Calling for a researcher to resign because you don’t agree with the ratings is not on and abuse of either researchers or SI staff will not be tolerated. 

This thread is 16 pages long and quite frankly there’s probably only 3 or 4 pages of actual useful information and genuine issues, most of the rest is people throwing their toys out of the pram to put it bluntly. 
 

Researchers and SI staff won’t get everything right, they’re human after all, but they get a lot more right than they get wrong and the decisions they make whether you like them or not are final. The editors exist for a reason, if you don’t like the decision and want to make player X unrealistically overpowered then go ahead and use them. 

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2 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

@ClarkKent1 Thanks for the effort in your post again. Please note that +1/-1 won't make any noticeable difference within the game. Some of your attributes are slightly wrong (due to where you are in your Lazio save). You've put all this great effort in to Liverpool, yet you're playing with Lazio :D 

Milner - I agree with Fitness increase to 19, Composure increase to 16 with Dribbling down to 12 (now if poss but certainly for next update)

Thiago - Stated previously that I thought a number of his attributes/CA could be higher, however the Bayern researcher has seen him far more than I have and after 2 games for us I can't justify any changes until the Winter update.

Salah - I believe that combined with other attributes for penalty success he's ok at the moment

Matip - ok with him now, its hard to judge his consistency when he's injured so much mind

Jota - too early at the moment to consider a PA increase, he's had a small CA increase though

I'm waiting for the full release to start my Liverpool save :)

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1 hour ago, Dan Ormsby said:

I'm not answering this as an employee of SI, I'm answering this as a human who has just been told he needs to step down from a position by someone who is ranting and directing personal attacks based on an opinion that is not backed up by any evidence.  Assistant researchers are not paid employees of SI.  This is something I do on top of my paid role, which I do very professionally, thank you very much.  I also have put hours of thought and reasoning based on evidence into my work as Arsenal researcher.

If I'm coming across as arrogant, I'm sorry you feel this way.  Please consider how you may be coming across to the person you are personally attacking, and the wider community.

Sorry but I also think you come across as very arrogant and dismissive and I think that reflects extremely poorly on the company.

I'm not really sure how much more a player could do in their breakthrough season as Saka has done? Consistently good performances, has end product, demonstrated a fantastic mentality, trusted by Arteta and Southgate. A player has to be pretty special at 18-19 to be regularly selected like that. I think I trust Arteta and Southgate's judgement more than yours. He's not got the potential to be a 'good' Premier League player. Not saying he's going to be the next Messi - but Sterling, Sancho? Why not, 'potential' is just an invention the game needs to work by, but it's certainly quite possible he can reach that level. Man of the match for England for heavens sake. He has not demonstrated anything less than Greenwood or Martinelli. Why is Emile Smith-Rowe rated so highly? he has shown glimpses of being fantastic but it's just guesswork, unlike Saka he does not have the evidence at first team level, so why are they so comparable?

Edited by guendo86
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1 minute ago, guendo86 said:

Sorry but I also think you come across as very arrogant and dismissive and I think that reflects extremely poorly on the company.

I'm not really sure how much more a player could do in their breakthrough season as Saka has done? Consistently good performances, has end product, demonstrated a fantastic mentality, trusted by Arteta and Southgate. A player has to be pretty special at 18-19 to be regularly selected like that. I think I trust Areteta and Southgate's judgement more than yours. He's not got the potential to be a 'good' Premier League player - he ranks up there with Greenwood and Martinelli. Why is Emile Smith-Rowe rated so highly? he has shown glimpses of being fantastic but it's just guesswork, unlike Saka he does not have the evidence at first team level, so why are they so comparable?

Regarding the opening sentence - I apologise if this is how it seems to you and some others.  It is not my intention.

Regarding the rest of the post, what you are describing is current ability.  Do you disagree with Saka's current ability?  His potential ability doesn't have anything to do with this.  I'm sorry if this comes across as dismissive, but it is a true statement.  As explained in my post earlier today, I have made a judgement that Saka is unusual in the fact that he has got to a high level at a young age but I don't believe he will improve in a massive way where he will go on to be one of the world's leading players.  I have given him a PA that I think will be accurate to real life, where in most FM saves he will go on to being a genuine leading Premier League and international player.  I'm not really sure what else I can say.

 

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36 minutes ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Regarding the opening sentence - I apologise if this is how it seems to you and some others.  It is not my intention.

Regarding the rest of the post, what you are describing is current ability.  Do you disagree with Saka's current ability?  His potential ability doesn't have anything to do with this.  I'm sorry if this comes across as dismissive, but it is a true statement.  As explained in my post earlier today, I have made a judgement that Saka is unusual in the fact that he has got to a high level at a young age but I don't believe he will improve in a massive way where he will go on to be one of the world's leading players.  I have given him a PA that I think will be accurate to real life, where in most FM saves he will go on to being a genuine leading Premier League and international player.  I'm not really sure what else I can say.

 

Thanks and for your response. I understand it's a very hard task to assign arbitrary numbers to young players, I certainly would not want these decisions resting on my shoulders, and allocations will never be done perfectly. But I do think Saka is out by quite a bit. I do disagree with Saka's CA because he is broadly equivalent to Reiss Nelson, who (admittedly is less versatile) hasn't forced his way into the Arsenal first team/England team and demonstrated end product. If you feel that Saka won't improve much then his current attributes are way down.

At a guess i'd say you have his PA set around 160 +/- 2. I believe this should be minimum 165 and for consistency (because all a PA is, is a mechanism of ranking players against each other) at least no lower than Nelson, ESR or Mason Greenwood, none of whom have demonstrated significantly more potential than Saka. 

Just to clarify, i'm not fussed so much about the CA or small attribute differences. The critical thing to get right is the relative difference in ability of players within the same club first and foremost, because it makes playing the club feel very strange otherwise. Saka is clearly better than Nelson, Partey is clearly better than Elneny and Xhaka. I shouldn't have to think hard about these selections for my first 11 but I'm having to in my save.

Edited by guendo86
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Hello guys,

This is a general thing, but i'll post a Premier League example. It's something that bugs me for a while, I used to be a researcher for the Romanian league, now I'm just an old  grumpy gamer :))

So, in Jack Harrison's case: we have a loan spell at Middlesbrough, then 2 loan spells at Leeds. What's the point in placing the Man City line in the 2018-19 season with 0 matches, 0 everything?

This would be ok if in that season he would have played a cup or European game for City, because obviously those appearances are not shown in Career stats, and a 0 stats line would show us that at least he had appearances in other competitions for the club in that season. But in our case, Jack Harrison didnt play any games for city in that season, and there are hundreds of other similar examples. I hope it makes sense :)

20201117190532_1.thumb.jpg.4bbdfb8d2910a34d918abfe8f593249f.jpg

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, guendo86 said:

Thanks and for your response. I understand it's a very hard task to assign arbitrary numbers to young players, I certainly would not want these decisions resting on my shoulders, and allocations will never be done perfectly. But I do think Saka is out by quite a bit. I do disagree with Saka's CA because he is broadly equivalent to Reiss Nelson, who (admittedly is less versatile) hasn't forced his way into the Arsenal first team/England team and demonstrated end product. If you feel that Saka won't improve much then his current attributes are way down.

At a guess i'd say you have his PA set around 160 +/- 2. I believe this should be minimum 165 and for consistency (because all a PA is, is a mechanism of ranking players against each other) at least no lower than Nelson, ESR or Mason Greenwood, none of whom have demonstrated significantly more potential than Saka. 

Just to clarify, i'm not fussed so much about the CA or small attribute differences. The critical thing to get right is the relative difference in ability of players within the same club first and foremost, because it makes playing the club feel very strange otherwise. Saka is clearly better than Nelson, Partey is clearly better than Elneny and Xhaka. I shouldn't have to think hard about these selections for my first 11 but I'm having to in my save.

As a fellow Arsenal fan I completely agree with the researcher here. I think Saka will be a good, consistent player but not uproot any trees. Mason greenwood on the other hand, as much as it pains me to say it, looks like he could be something really special. Martinelli should have a slightly higher PA but as hes been out for so long who knows whats going to happen.

Partey can't be upgraded as he's played 5 games for us.

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2 minutes ago, Flairy said:

As a fellow Arsenal fan I completely agree with the researcher here. I think Saka will be a good, consistent player but not uproot any trees. Mason greenwood on the other hand, as much as it pains me to say it, looks like he could be something really special. Martinelli should have a slightly higher PA but as hes been out for so long who knows whats going to happen.

Partey can't be upgraded as he's played 5 games for us.

So we are stuck with a broken Arsenal team that doesn't fit with reality? Saka had a PA rating of 158 last year. Again, how could he have had a better break-through season in this Arsenal team? Nelson had a PA of 160. These 2 players are not comparable in terms of potential based on the last season and the relative trust shown in them by club/national managers. There should at least be a PA difference of 5 between the two players.

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6 minutes ago, guendo86 said:

So we are stuck with a broken Arsenal team that doesn't fit with reality? Saka had a PA rating of 158 last year. Again, how could he have had a better break-through season in this Arsenal team? Nelson had a PA of 160. These 2 players are not comparable in terms of potential based on the last season and the relative trust shown in them by club/national managers. There should at least be a PA difference of 5 between the two players.

 

One or two player ratings you disagree with doesn't mean the team is "broken". 

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Had to dive into Saka's profile to see what the fuss was about, only to find a PA which would make him the 8th best player in City's squad (And he WILL get there at his age). Incredible.

Probably worth looking into the way PA actually works (detailed in this thread previously), before complaining about a stat that a 28 year old Mustafi WILL NOT ACHIEVE, getting personal and risking a ban?

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Hi, long time player here and Chelsea fan. I know the game releases very soon, but I'd like quite a few Chelsea changes to be considered, I was quite disappointed with the lack of changes in this years iteration and feel certain players strengths and weaknesses aren't reflected properly. (Though some other players are perfect). Long post and I know not all changes can be done but there are some real standouts that need changing. I have't seen the CA's/PA's so this is based purely on attributes to reflect the players better.

DEF

Tomori : Lower concentration by 1-2 and decisions by 1-2. He is considered the highest rated CB (AND RB!?!) at the club, even above Thiago Silva... Whenever he is bought into the team he often has a good performance but with quite a few errors. Technically and physically his ratings are spot on, but mentals must be lower. In reality he is 5th pick and CB and was meant to be loaned out.

 

Rudiger: Could quite possibly lower positioning by 1-2. There were numerous occasions last season and his performances this season for Germany where he was terribly out of the defensive line. Could also have pace up to 17 or 18. He and Tomori are regarded as the fastest player at Chelsea. (multiple videos on youtube with hosts talking to Chelsea players, Odoi, Zouma, Chillwell (and more) have all said Rudiger is the fastest). Fell completely down the pecking order and was offered out to multiple clubs because of his shocking defensive displays last season


Silva: Leadership increase of 1-3. Has come in and made an instant difference marshaling the defense. We have gone one of the worst defensive records in the league to best since he came into first team. Makes the defenders around him different players

 

Reece James: Reece deserves a decent boost, he is one of the best players at Chelsea and has started this season very well, benching our captain Azpi.Strength up to 17 possibly 18, this was recently highlighted on MotD where they gawked about him throwing a player over. He consistently gets his body across and out muscles opposing wingers, performances against Mane and Zaha highlight this strength, he is a physically dominant player. As noted by others Crossing to 17 and technique up to 14-15, he is consistently gaining plaudits for his crossing ability and it's one of his best strengths. I believe dribble +1, vision +1-2 and composure +1 could also be considered, he has stepped into midfield numerous times and his assured playstyle & composure are also one of his standout attributes. To compensate for these buffs, I would lower positioning by 1 and concentration by 2 each, there have been times where he was caught out at  the backpost or too far upfield last season and he can often dwell on the ball and make sloppy passes. He is the 1st choice RB and this should be reflected. 

 

Emerson: Lower CA needed, overrated. Far too quick, 16 Acc, 15/14 Pace is much more accurate. Crossing 13 is better aswell, his crossing ability isn't that good and nowhere near a James/Ziyech more similar to Alonso.

Alonso: Lower CA needed, 12 passing. Teams often set up to force the ball wide to our fullbacks last season as they are both incapable on the ball. His passes were often wayward or sidewards/backwards. Lower decisions and positioning numerous occasions of Alonso making shocking positioning and passing mistakes since he has played at LB.

 

Chillwell: Obviously it's been stated that the previous researcher did the ratings, but Crossing and Off the Ball could be increased by 2 each his crossing is a huge upgrade on previous LB options and he has already had numerous chances from movements towards the backpost in the short time he's been here with well timed goals. 2 goals and 2 assists in just 5 appearances at LB prove this attacking threat increase is deserved.  Jumping Reach and Heading also could be looked at. Ben's aerial ability is strong for a fullback, He had quite a decent aerial duel record last season.

MID

Kovacic: Corners down to 11, Crossing down to10/11. Not sure where he got 13 and 14 from, maybe his Inter day's as an AM, this just isnt an aspect of his game at all and it's wasted CA for what he should be exceptional in.  Finishing and Longshots both down to 10 (or lower). A shocking goal record since his Madrid days, never scores rarely hits the target when he gets a chance and shot technique is very poor for a player of his ability. Passing down to16/15 his passing isn't that great, Kova is ball carrier, rarely assists, often over/underhits crucial through balls and switches. The fact his passing is higher than Ziyech is very odd... To compensate these downgrades I would up Dribble to 18 and Composure to 16. His ability to receive the ball deep in his own half and play out of the press is unparalleled, his goal scoring and passing range prevent him from being considered truly world class.

 

Kante: Quite underrated technically. Dribble & First Touch up to 13. Kante has become quite neat on the ball, if you look at his games when he is playing box to box (specifically vs Liverpool) he has had some very strong demonstrations of dribbling ability, pulling off nutmegs and smart plays. His first touch is also pretty solid always opening his body up for the next pass and exploiting the space. This game has Kante pigeoned into an untechnical ball winner when in reality he can contribute more. Possible passing increase to 14, when he has played as the DM, he has demonstrated some very nice switches of play and forward passes to the CM's in advanced positions, I find his range of passing superior to Kova's. Alway's hovered around 86-89% pass accuracy.

 

Mount: Quite overrated in certain areas. Dribble down to 13 (struggled on the wing, couldn't beat a man with dribbling ability), Finishing down to 12, Mason strikes a ball very well, but the accuracy was lacking last season. He has the same finishing as Havertz, yet look at the goal records... Decisions and Composure could both come down by 1. WIth a +1 boost to Acc and Tackling. Mason has thrived more as an 8 with exceptional workrate. When in higher positions on the pitch his pass choice often let him down (but he can play beautiful switches and weighted passes through the line from a deep position). He would often snatch at chances in the box.

 

Havertz: Finishing NEEDS to be boosted to 14/15. 29 Goals in last 2 league seasons as a midfielder... Some of his finishes have been unreal, Bundesliga players are underrated in comparison to EPL. Technique +1, First Touch+1, Passing+1 and Dribble+1 could all be looked at for an upgrade he is a great technician. Off the ball +1 Workrate +1 could also be looked at, his movement is one of the highlights of his game and a reason for his goal tally, while there has been numerous instances of him running 40-50 yard sprints tracking his man since joining Chelsea, with his defensive work being quite admirable and unexpected. Strength -2 and possible stamina -1 to compensate. Has struggled with the physicality of the PL.

ATT

Pulisic: I would lower Decisions by 2, Aggression by -3 and possibly finishing by -1. These are't* inherently wrong, but I feel an increase to First Touch by 2 and Acc by 1 would better reflect the player. 16 aggression is way too high, it is higher than Rudiger who is a very aggresive defender. Decisions I would lower as I feel this is one of areas of his game that needs development, he often overruns/holds the ball too long, tries to force passes which aren't on, or passes instead of shooting when in a good position to finish. His first touch is very good always keeping the ball close when needed or exploiting the space to get away from the defender, he beats defenders with his first touch turns as much as with his dribbling. 17 Acc is too low, Puli has ridiculous burst of speed, Hazard often had 20 with his time at Chelsea and Pulisic rivals that.  He could possibly get a +1 to Off the Ball and Anticipation, large majority of his goals weren't amazing finishes, and more arriving in the box at the right time. Pulisic carried Chelsea at the end of last season and was regarded as our most important player so I don't think him having a higher CA is bad, he is raw in mental (concentration and dec) but his technical ability and drive he gives us through his quick dribbling needs to be reflected. NEED HIGH INJURY PRONENESS

 

Tammy Abraham; 15 Finishing. He is not on the level of finishing of Werner. Scored some great goals, missed many sitters aswell. Balance needs to come down to 12/13. He is constantly off balance, I really don't get this one. Decisions -2, and First Touch -1. Tammy is overrated in game. Tammy started well, then severely dipped after November. He is better than Werner in game... His first touch is loose and he was often too greedy opting to shoot when the pass was on. I think he should come down in rating for the release and then be considered for an upgrade as he looks to have improved and added more to his game this season.

 

Ziyech: WOW. Maybe he is underrated because of playing in Holland? This guy needs 16/17 Corners, 17/18 Crossing, 17/18 Passing and 18/19 Vision. He has been statistically a top 3 playmaker in Europe for last few years and probably has the best left boot in the football after Messi. His decisions and concentration seem ok to compensate + he should have low consistency. But on his day he is MUCH BETTER than his attributes suggest. Has hit the ground running, we shouldn't have to wait till next year to use him. If there was no editor I would be tempted to refund the game as our new signings are underrated it's depressing. Havertz, Werner and especially Ziyech are all elite and deserved to be reflected that way in game.

 

Werner: A hard player to rate as his attributes aren't terribly off, but when I compare him with other strikers, and what he achieved last season, he is underrated. I would look at increases in Anticipation +2 (he is always on the shoulder ready for passes, and anticipates crosses well). Decisions +2/3 (Timo was highly criticized and rightly so for his descision making in the past but last season under Nagelsmann he came on leaps and bounds in this area, always playing well with good 1 touch play and becoming more involved as a creator, passing instead of taking ridiculous shots) Determination +1/2. Teamwork +1/2. (Both too low) I would heavily consider Finishing, Off the Ball for +1 boosts. Timo was top 5 for goal's and assists last season and has consistently scored for years. Only his composure lets him down infront of goal, some of his finishes are outstanding from crazy angles still generating great power.

 

THANK YOU FOR READING, LOVE THE GAME AND YOU GUYS ALWAYS DO A GREAT JOB, I KNOW NOT EVERY ATTRIBUTE CAN BE CHANGED HOPE CERTAIN SUGGESTIONS WILL BE CONSIDERED. I KNOW YOU DON'T HANDLE THE NEW SIGNINGS BUT I FEEL THEY ARE ALL QUITE UNDERRATED AND NEED TO BE LOOKED AT.

TL;DR: Some of the players seem quite overrated namely Emerson, Alonso, Tomori, Tammy and Mount. While the new signings, James and Kante are underrated. Kova and Pulisic need better attribute distribution to reflect their distinctive styles. 

AM HAPPY TO PROVIDE DATA IF THE EDITOR DISAGREES WITH CERTAIN POINTS, BUT MOST OF THESE SHOULD BE KNOWN FACTS THROUGHOUT THE FANBASE

Edited by Boafo
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46 minutes ago, metal_guitarist said:

I'm not sure what people aren't understanding here. Dan has made his decision with Saka. That's it. End of. Any further posts on the matter, including the one that was just made, will be removed. 

Please take the above on board

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54 minutes ago, Boafo said:

Hi, long time player here and Chelsea fan. I know the game releases very soon, but I'd like quite a few Chelsea changes to be considered, I was quite disappointed with the lack of changes in this years iteration and feel certain players strengths and weaknesses aren't reflected properly. (Though some other players are perfect). Long post and I know not all changes can be done but there are some real standouts that need changing. I have't seen the CA's/PA's so this is based purely on attributes to reflect the players better.

 

I feel like if these changes came trough Chelsea would be the best team in the entire world tbh.

Edited by Alzraum
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15 minutes ago, Alzraum said:

I feel like if these changes came trough Chelsea would be the best team in the entire world tbh.

I'm not expecting every single one, just suggestions on what could be changed. We have just spent 250mil on transfers for proven players, of course our first team is good. We have some of the best attacking talent in the world. The weaknesses are a terrible defense and keeper, which I asked for downgrades to. Lack of quality squad players to come for backup in certain positions (LB, CDM, CM, Wings). and a in-experienced manager who is still learning. On paper Chelsea has a very good squad. 

Which players do you suppose I am not providing decent suggestions for?

 Chelsea is underrated for past years, we only had 2 players above 160 past few years while most of City and Pool's squads had everyone over 160, Also compared with United we are lacking and even Spurs (Kane 12 CA more than Kante last season? not to mention Kane has better playmaking stats than Ziyech)  we are lacking truly great players. I asked for more downgrades to players from last season than up's! Only players which would rise in CA from last season is Kante, Pulisic and James.

The problem is half the new signings aren't even upgrades, Tammy Abraham is better than Werner in so many stats, Tomori better than Thiago Silva, Emerson better than Chillwell, Kova better than Havertz. And in comparison with their peers in their respective positions.

Kovacic has better crossing than Chillwell, he's never crossed a ball for Chelsea. Or half the players in the Prem have better passing, crossing and vision than Ziyech, i'm only comparing to other players stats.

Edited by Boafo
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1 minute ago, Boafo said:

 Chelsea is underrated for past years, we only had 2 players above 160 past few years while most of City and Pool's squads had everyone over 160, 

Please don't spread misinformation - Liverpool have 5 players over CA160 this year and the same last year.

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15 minutes ago, Boafo said:

Tammy Abraham is better than Werner in so many stats, Tomori better than Thiago Silva, Emerson better than Chillwell, Kova better than Havertz. 

I think Tammy isn't better then Werner tbh. Tomori is for me worse then Thiago Silva too. Emerson and Chillwell i didn't looked at so much tbh. so i don't actually know it. Havertz feels like he just needs some time in a new country since he still playing wonderful for Germany so i can see that Havertz got a better ranking then Kovacic. I feel like Football Manager predicted the CA from the last season pretty well and probably do it this year too. But i think you should talk about the Chelsea researcher about it this is just my point of view.

Edited by Alzraum
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5 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Please don't spread misinformation - Liverpool have 5 players over CA160 this year and the same last year.

Ok, sorry, it was off the top of my head but 4 more are just a few under 160, while City had 9 over 160 last year. I don't doubt that their squads are phenomenal and they achieved ridiculous levels of success, but with Chelsea's new additions they have a squad to rival anyone. Whether the manager can use them to their fullest ability is another question.

Edited by Boafo
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@DaveAzzopardi looks to me like Owen Otasowie has a random CA/PA, correct? Given that he’s been training with the first team, has been on the bench regularly for Wolves and just made his debut for the US, I think his PA should be set high and CA should be at around low Championship level? Just my opinion though, since Nuno rates him highly obviously, and over Vitinha

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6 minutes ago, Alzraum said:

I think Tammy isn't better then Werner tbh. Tomori is for me worse then Thiago Silva too. Emerson and Chillwell i didn't looked at so much tbh. so i don't actually now it. Havertz feels like he just needs some time in a new country since he still playing wonderful for Germany so i can see that Havertz got a better ranking then Kovacic. I feel like Football Manager predicted the CA from the last season pretty well and probably do it this year too. But i think you should talk about the Chelsea researcher about it this is just my point of view.

As I said, I am happy to try to provide stats for every attribute change I mentioned where possible. The post took quite a few hours to write, without collecting the exact numbers from whoscored, opta etc. I don't want to put even more effort when I don't even know if the Chelsea Researcher will reply or even see it. I'm just trying to start a discussion that's all. Like others have for their team.

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1 hour ago, Boafo said:

 

Kovacic: Corners down to 11, Crossing down to10/11. Not sure where he got 13 and 14 from, maybe his Inter day's as an AM, this just isnt an aspect of his game at all and it's wasted CA for what he should be exceptional in.  Finishing and Longshots both down to 10 (or lower). A shocking goal record since his Madrid days, never scores rarely hits the target when he gets a chance and shot technique is very poor for a player of his ability. Passing down to16/15 his passing isn't that great, Kova is ball carrier, rarely assists, often over/underhits crucial through balls and switches. The fact his passing is higher than Ziyech is very odd... To compensate these downgrades I would up Dribble to 18 and Composure to 16. His ability to receive the ball deep in his own half and play out of the press is unparalleled, his goal scoring and passing range prevent him from being considered truly world class.

 

I agree with everything you’ve said besides kovacics passing. Him not being a good passer of the ball is a myth. He hardly ever gives the final ball but his passing in tight spaces and his occasional play switching passes are usually accurate. This season he has 91% pass completion rate in the prem

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17 minutes ago, Boafo said:

As I said, I am happy to try to provide stats for every attribute change I mentioned where possible. The post took quite a few hours to write, without collecting the exact numbers from whoscored, opta etc. I don't want to put even more effort when I don't even know if the Chelsea Researcher will reply or even see it. I'm just trying to start a discussion that's all. Like others have for their team.

Hi Boafo.

Thanks for your long post. There is no need for you to continue to flood the forum with more posts about Chelsea - we're all aware of the players you have mentioned. 

As with all posts, the research team will consider the points made.

The same applies for all posters, really. Sure, come in here and make your point, and make it well. We'll see it all and work out what we need to amend.

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·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data - Liverpool's training and youth facilities  

·        State what you think the data should be - Training and youth facilities should be state of the art following the move to the Kirkby Training Complex                

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements - LFC have just spent £50m to move into a brand new, state of the art training complex alongside their youth academy. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/17/liverpool-open-new-training-ground-secret-stairway-and-james-milner-door

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/training-ground/416143-reds-celebrate-opening-of-new-axa-training-centre

 

              

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