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[England Premier Division] Data Issues


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24 minutes ago, JasonLFC10 said:

Man Utd won the league. If that's not a bug with the current squad I don't know what is?

I have tried to look for players potentially overpowered. Wan Bisaka 20 for tackling seems high, granted he is a strong tackler but 20?

Mason Greenwood, very good player, seems a bit over powered. Stats are up there with some of the best players in the world already?

Bruno Fernandes seems to be as overhyped as he is in real life. Again very good player but some stats seem exaggerated. 

Pogba maybe another example. Technically seems to be over powered and not sure if the flair stat is for his hairstyles of his football. I rarely see him pulling off skills and dribbles in game? Usually its his physical strength that sees him beat players so I would agree with his physical strengths.

As I say I am looking for overpowered players more due to the over performance early in the game. I may be missing players of focusing in on the wrong ones.

For us to make changes we need evidence - as is stated in the first post:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.         

There's no real evidence other than personal opinion above, and whilst we appreciate football is an opinionated game, we'd need much more factual evidence in order for us to consider these kinds of points. 

Thanks. 

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12 minutes ago, JasonLFC10 said:

Players generally seems to retire quickly when not signed or registered to squads.

Decided to check out Yannick Bolasie and before January on the game he had already called it a day and was a scout?

This wouldn't be a data issue, is something which is better suited to our All Other Gameplay forum.

Thanks. 

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4 hours ago, mattgranger said:

Hi @krajcik38thanks for the apology, I understand that player ratings do invoke a lot of passion and of course its one of the most difficult and contentious aspects of the research process for us researchers.

Soucek has had a big CA boost from last years game. I do completely understand your gripes regarding his stamina, but I wanted to make sure that Soucek's all around game was improved to reflect his ability and his importance to our team. If I were to bump his stamina up to 20 it would then mean that I couldn't increase other attributes such as passing, first touch etc. It can be difficult when we have to stay within an ability range. I will certainly keep an eye on his attributes and if possible can look to tweak in the winter update.

Hopefully this explanation helps somewhat.

Thank you for getting back to me. Ooh, that seems kind of harsh if you're being told you can't go over certain CA. I know my opinion is not impartial, given he's my countryman, but given

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that I am able to take a look to ordb as well, the 137/140 CA/PA

is very low for such highly rated player. Compared to Declan Rice, who is 

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142/168

I would like to ask you if you could bump up his PA to a much higher number. As he might arguably be one of the top BBM-DM in Europe. His statistics in slavia seasons were absolutely amazing even against top competition in UCL - Barca, Inter, Dortmund. That's what brought him the transfer to the best league in the world. But if you are that restricted, it is really unfair and only confirms my opinion that we need to come up with better system than we have now as it is very far from real world. 

Thank you for being understanding. And it only amazes me that you're not given a chance to rate a player fairly. I mean, who here can name enough players with better stamina and fitness than Souček in EPL that would justify him not having more than 16. 

Thanks again, let me know what do you think of raising his PA and overall feedback on this matter and best of luck with full release!

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On 14/11/2020 at 01:04, Brighton123 said:

@Simon Tipple - My thoughts on Brighton players data this year. 

Ryan - Aerial Reach and command of area bump down 1. Very rarely does he claim a cross under pressure. Communication bump up 1, he's always shouting/talking to the backline. Positioning bump down 1 or 2. On a couple of occasions he's been beaten 1-on-1 and he's found himself in some strange positions outside of the frame of the goal. I don't think he needs to be made worse so could add another one to agility and reflexes (even though I think reflexes have already been bumped).

 

So we have a guideline for Aerial Reach that corresponds to the Goalkeepers height. 9 represents average for Ryan, which I think is fair. I agree with reducing Command of Area though so have made that change. His Communication had already been increased this version, as that was something that became a lot more noticeable with no fans in the ground! As you noted, Reflexes had also already been improved this year. I've nudged up his Communication and Agility by a further point and reduced his Positioning a little.

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Sanchez - Maybe a tough one, but could do with a boost in CA and PA. It seems he is very highly rated. He seems untouched since last year, which is odd after playing a full season at another team. 

I'd welcome @ChaffRAFC opinion here regarding his time at Rochdale. His profile has been updated since last year although not any of the GK attributes as such. I bumped up his reputation given his debut vs Spurs but tbh due to his loan spells I haven't seen a huge amount of him in action to feel comfortable making significant changes myself just yet. It's still a bit unclear whether he's actually ahead of Walton for example in the pecking order, given Walton picked up the injury in the Chelsea friendly.

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Dunk - Pace down 1, he's not a 14 and I would add that 1 to his positioning. 

I totally get why people would think he shouldn't have 14 for pace. It's a tricky number to really quantify but there's been a couple of occasions when I've been able to see him up close in this regard. There was an U23s games at Lancing when at half-time he was doing sprint from the goal-line to the half-way line and I was like woooah, he's quicker than I thought. I was also fortunate enough to go to a training session once where he was surprisingly quick. I guess that stuff has always stuck with me. I totally appreciate his initial acceleration isn't great but once he gets going he's not bad! If I reduce his Pace to 13, I wouldn't be comfortable with Acceleration 12, as I think there needs to be a more notable difference there. I'd be more inclined to drop Acceleration to 11 than Pace to 13. Historically, I've always felt his Positioning wasn't a strong point, I think we've covered that one in previous years and I also think back to Burnley away last season where I think he's been caught out a bit. So I get where you're coming from but I'm not totally sold on making these suggested changes.

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White - His PA last year was no better than Dunk's I think. He's being talked of by Southgate and clearly fancied by a few of the top teams. Has it been given a bump? He's only got half a star left of improvement for me, which is not getting him a big team move in the game, or if it does, he'd never be a starter. 

Fair point, I've bumped it up a little bit more.

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Veltman - Probs to early for you to call but technique of 11 and passing of 12 look quite low. 13 each seems reasonable to me but waiting until January update makes sense unless you've already clocked it. 

Based on what I've seen at Brighton so far, I'd be inclined to agree with an increase. However @Reddiablo, is a lot more familiar with Veltman than I am so I haven't rushed into any changes given the limited minutes he's had so far. If @Reddiablois agreeable I wouldn't be against a minor tweak here before release, but otherwise I'll probably hold off for now.

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Bernardo - Can't tell if he's already been cut a bit? Could probably do with a tiny bit more even if he has to be honest. Was very excited by him in the first season but just hasn't worked out for him. 

I've dropped him a little way before Beta and again around the beta deadline (so not sure if latest change is in the public beta). I agree in that I thought he looked very promising under Chris Hughton, although I suppose any attacking intent after Bong would have impressed. I'm not keen on massively reducing him though as I think that could potentially see him a tad under rated at wherever he ends up next. His rep has been dropped to reflect his lower status in the pecking order here. 

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Tariq Lamptey - I've read what others have said about him and your replies. I appreciate with his pace it makes it difficult to represent him how you would expect to see it stats wise. I do however think he's something incredibly special and if he's not termed a wonderkid in the game, he should be. In the save I've started I'm playing vertical tiki-taka, and Billy Reid actually advised me that Lamptey wasn't suited to that tactic! That'll be due to his low technicals. In real life he's very much suited to possession football and can play intricately, finding a solution a bit like Alzate can. My attempt at what he should look like (I have no idea what CA this would give him but have tried to consider how many CA points Acc/Pace take up). At the moment he's reported as operating at championship level when he's clearly top half prem level. 

Crossing - 12  - First Touch - 11 - Passing - 12 Tackling - 12 - Technique - 12 - Off the ball - 15 (his movement is insane) - Teamwork - Saw you already said it was getting a bump - Vision - 10 

Could cut pace down from 16 > 15 as you've said and I'd lower his balance as it looks amazing when he finds a away to sneak through a gap and rides challenges, but he does also go down a few times as he goes so quickly it doesn't take much to throw him off. 15 > 13. Composure could go 12 > 11 to help allow some work in other areas.

He only has 4* on my save, Hoping his PA is one of the best in the world for a right back? 

Other thing, I'm not even in September and he has a pre-concern about a new contract. All his interviews show him as being incredibly humble and doesn't strike me as someone who would cause a fuss so soon. Is that something you can alter in the background? 

He's a tough one as I understand that those attributes give the appearance that he's been underrated but he really does have a very good CA for his age and a lot of potential. I would fully expect those technical attributes to improve in-game as he progresses. I also think a huge amount of his game is about running at players, or running in behind, and essentially making things happen! I'm not sure we've seen a huge amount of evidence, that his technical attributes are particularly strong yet. I'd also ponder, if they were that strong, why is he a wing back? Wouldn't he be better recognised as a winger/forward etc? I do agree that he's got a great ability to get out of trouble and find a pass - and it's genuinely great to finally get some feedback that references that. I personally think feedback like that is waaay more useful to me than "here's how his stats compare to X,Y,Z". 

Suggesting a Pace drop is interesting, and just goes to show how opinions can differ as there was another post suggesting it should go up to 18! I think at the moment 16 is ok. A 15 would feel like a little like I'm trying to manipulate the attributes a bit too much to give some wiggle room. Similar to his Left Foot rating, which is one of those things gamers don't really see. Every value from 8 to 14 for example, will still display as "Right" but makes a significant difference to his overall ability. He's actually good with his left foot, so I'm not going to drop it just so that I can increase a few other attributes. It is sometimes these things that you can't necessarily see on screen that make impact on a players ability too. 

I've tweaked up his CA a little bit so accommodate some further changes. I've given him a fixed PA now as the PA in the beta was a minus range so could potentially have generated lower than I'm comfortable with. Contract wise that'll happen simply because he's paid far too little given his ability. I don't have a huge issue with that as it seems we're trying to agree a new deal IRL anyway. I've tweaked some of his mental attributes, but I suspect he'll still want a new deal in-game.

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Dan Burn - Heading, he wins them, but he's not good at them. 15 > 13

Agreed, changed.

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Molumby - I've done a couple of test starts and noticed his natural fitness isn't fixed? Seems the way he returned from such a serious injury and his general athleticism points towards a high rating. 15?

Fair, changed.

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Lallana - Driven by Liverpool researcher but leadership of 11 could be looked at in the future, and I'd be tempted to tweak him to give him an increase to vision. Not saying extra CA boost though. I noticed this last year but I'm surprised by his low finishing and maybe long shots given he's scored a good amount of goals for a playmaker. Can't recall him consistently missing chances. 

One where I'd look to @diddydaddydoddyfor his input. Certainly agree that his Leadership could be looked at as he's very much taken on that type of role both on and off the pitch. 

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Bissouma - Seen he's also been discussed. I honestly believe he's our best player and one of the most complete players outside the top 7/8 teams. He could play and start in some of those teams and expect him to in the future. Starts as 3*, leading championship player but I'd have him up there with Dunk as the highest rated. Positionally and tactically since xmas time he's been outstanding and offered excellent protection to the backline. Can't remember him leaving them exposed. I have to disagree with you on his tackling, the silly fouls (in the past) have been down to poor decision making which has improved dramatically. I've nothing more to add than the stats people have offered, but his other non-tackling stats will not give him the real life numbers in the game that people have shown you. 

Marking - 12 - Tackling - 15 - Anticipation - 14 (he always starts pressing the pass receiver before the pass is made) - Positioning - 14 

Could lower finishing to 10. His long shots are good but he's missed a few clearer chances, particularly last season when he got forward more. 

Hmm, not sure I'd agree that he's that level yet, but potentially yes. Fair point on Finishing, have dropped that. I've tweaked up his ability a little and improved his Marking, Tackling and Positioning but wouldn't be comfortable going to those level you've suggested yet.

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Alzate - Has his best position been made CM instead of AMC this year? I'd tweak some of his versatility to give his composure and decisions a boost. He's so calm on the ball and always finds a pass under pressure. PPM plays 1-2's

He has yes. Agreed with the PPM. Still remember this moment when his composure and decision making was founding wanting against Chelsea. Moments like that concern me with proposed increases in those attributes, although it's fair to see he is very composed. I think I might tweak up just the composure for now and perhaps put that error down to concentration and decisions. 

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Propper -  Concentration lowered 16 > 14. Main thinking here is his no look passes that get cut out putting us under pressure. Would bump composure up 1 to compensate. 

I get the point, although equally when I think about it as representative of his mental focus throughout the 90 minutes I don't think he's the type of player to drop off as the game goes on. He's very experienced now and pretty consistent with his actions throughout the 90 minutes. 

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Mac Allister - PPM get's into opposition area or arrives late in opposition area.

Fair, added.

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Jahanbakhsh - Changes look good. Would remove runs with ball often and replace with moves into channels. I'd keep beats man repeatedly though, as he search's for an extra half a yard. I'd also add that to Gross actually.

Agreed, changed. 

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Gross - As above and I'd decrease his flair somewhat. 

Dropped his Flair, but not sure about adding the PPM.

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Trossard - PPM moves into channels. Game v Man Utd for example, finds pockets of space to turn and get a shot off. Hoping despite his age there's a fair amount of room for improvement? Feel like he could be very good. Is now either footed, I was going to suggest a boost to left foot but not to either. feel the use of his left foot is due to him playing more centrally and needing to use it. Will see if it continues. 

Not sure about the PPM, think that's just a reflection of his ability to find space. He uses his left footed loads, not sure it's just down to his position. That United game for example I think every shot was with his left! 

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Connolly - There is no way he is 179cm lol. Not sure why this has changed from last year? - Edit - Started a new save and he's 174cm. Can we fix it? Checked a few sites and they have him at 175cm. 

Open question, how do our u18's and u23's CA and PA compare to other teams? Without going through and comparing them team by team manually, it looks like our youngsters don't stack up to other prem teams (particularly home-grown players and bought players that actually play u23 football and not sent on loan) . I've checked how the u18's and u23's have performed over last couple of years and they've been doing great. Especially the u23's. Might not necessarily be an issue with Brighton player stats, but more over hyped youngsters from larger teams making our players seem worse. Would be interesting to know how we compare though. 

Thanks for your work again this year and as always, sorry for the long post! 

Ah, his height wasn't set so was randomised. Fixed now. I'm not sure regarding U18/U23s, would take some further investigation. 

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Edit - Norwood's promotion clause. It was around last year too and forgot to mention it. Surely it should have been cashed at the end of the 18/19 season? he was bought in Jan 19 so should be in effect that season? 

Edit - Haydon Roberts height not fixed, not sure what is. Have you got any info? He looks just shy of 6 feet, 178cm?

I don't have a source for Roberts height but it's set to randomise between 5'9 and 5'11..

Will get the Norwood clause removed.

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On 12/11/2020 at 17:42, richard.cheeseman said:

I haven’t seen a link to this... please provide info and I will take a look further 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theathletic.com/2122794/2020/10/09/guochuan-lai-west-brom-owner/%3famp

I've included the link and a photo of the article (in case you don’t have a prescription!)

Theres very little info on Lai at the moment but he hasn’t attended a game for a number of years and hasn’t put any money into the club since (I think) signing  Zhang Yuning? Albion running as a self sufficient club at the moment, sadly 

A160E70A-5BC0-4C24-97E0-DDB85E34E978.png

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26 minutes ago, Simon Tipple said:

 

Based on what I've seen at Brighton so far, I'd be inclined to agree with an increase. However @Reddiablo, is a lot more familiar with Veltman than I am so I haven't rushed into any changes given the limited minutes he's had so far. If @Reddiablois agreeable I wouldn't be against a minor tweak here before release, but otherwise I'll probably hold off for now.

 

Re: Veltman

I would say he's run of the mill in his passing and technique. Maybe he stands out a bit more at Brighton in that area :D
Not sure about his technique, but his passing is ok. I have no qualms with it, all the Veltman haters will. (It's just trendy to diss the player but it's a bit rubbish)
Passing 13 is fine, technique 13 seems a bit high to me, let's put that at 12 (instead of 11 then)

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7 minutes ago, Reddiablo said:

Re: Veltman

I would say he's run of the mill in his passing and technique. Maybe he stands out a bit more at Brighton in that area :D
Not sure about his technique, but his passing is ok. I have no qualms with it, all the Veltman haters will. (It's just trendy to diss the player but it's a bit rubbish)
Passing 13 is fine, technique 13 seems a bit high to me, let's put that at 12 (instead of 11 then)

Cheers! :brock:

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41 minutes ago, Simon Tipple said:
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Lallana - Driven by Liverpool researcher but leadership of 11 could be looked at in the future, and I'd be tempted to tweak him to give him an increase to vision. Not saying extra CA boost though. I noticed this last year but I'm surprised by his low finishing and maybe long shots given he's scored a good amount of goals for a playmaker. Can't recall him consistently missing chances. 

One where I'd look to @diddydaddydoddyfor his input. Certainly agree that his Leadership could be looked at as he's very much taken on that type of role both on and off the pitch. 

At Southampton, he captained them on occasion iirc and scored c1 in 4. When he joined a bigger club his leadership was nulled by the sheer number of other leaders on the books and his goal output reduced to c1 in 7 at best (don't have assist figures to hand but I'd be surprised if they were high), hence his leadership and finishing attributes. However as a senior model professional in the Brighton set-up his influence and therefore Leadership attribute could increase - maybe to 14 for now with a review after Xmas.

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13 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

At Southampton, he captained them on occasion iirc and scored c1 in 4. When he joined a bigger club his leadership was nulled by the sheer number of other leaders on the books and his goal output reduced to c1 in 7 at best (don't have assist figures to hand but I'd be surprised if they were high), hence his leadership and finishing attributes. However as a senior model professional in the Brighton set-up his influence and therefore Leadership attribute could increase - maybe to 14 for now with a review after Xmas.

Cheers! Increased to 12 for now. Any higher bumps his RCA a couple of points above his CA and I'm not sure there's any attributes I'd feel comfortable decreasing at this stage. Can look again in Jan!

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On 11/11/2020 at 20:12, LBall94_ said:

There needs to be an International thread cause I have no idea where else to put this but, These people need to be added to the coaching staff

England National Team

Senior Squad

+ Martyn Margetson - GK Coach

+ Bryce Cavanagh - Fitness - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/bryce-cavanagh-60790162?challengeId=AQF2bVkj8lyKzgAAAXW461DrT-LWOr7cmOCFhgnLT9JYLbgoKFtp7LM6eoJPd432yfG9bJxCYLDv794RMz65_ErjTT9anf_72A&submissionId=8682508f-e48c-4616-0e18-85f89ee1457b

+ Ben Rosenblatt - Fitness - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-rosenblatt-03342514

+ Steve Kemp - Physio - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/steve-kemp-16508237

Mark Sertori - Physio - Has Left

Sam Meek - U17 GK Coach - Not Senior

Also more evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_football_team#Coaching_staff

U21 Squad

+ Aaron Danks - Assistant

U20 Squad

+ Lee Carsley - Manager

+ Andy Edwards - Assistant

+ Rob Edwards - Coach

Mark Robson - Coach - Has Left

+ Danny Alcock - GK Coach

Heres the evidence for all of the above: https://www.thefa.com/news/2020/sep/24/2020-21-england-coaching-appointments-confirmed-240920

Richie Kyle & Mikey Harris - Coach - Have been let go - https://trainingground.guru/articles/england-scrap-specialist-coaches-and-make-duo-redundant

Is Les Reed added as the England NT technical director?

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3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

For us to make changes we need evidence - as is stated in the first post:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.         

There's no real evidence other than personal opinion above, and whilst we appreciate football is an opinionated game, we'd need much more factual evidence in order for us to consider these kinds of points. 

Thanks. 

I guess the evidence point would be that Man United won the league, with transfers disabled in first window.  The evidence of it being unlikely with the current squad would be last season finishing 33 points behind 1st and this season sitting 14th, having only picked up 1 point from 4 homes games. 

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8 hours ago, mattgranger said:

Hi @PhillWHU86thanks for the comments, very helpful.

1) Will get Ben Clarkson added in as U23 physio

2) Zavon Hines is an U14 coach for West Ham, hence why he is not on the game currently. If he moves to U18 or higher, we can add him back into the game

3) I haven't been able to find any info on Konchesky still being our loan manager. His LinkedIn doesn't seem to have been updated for a while. As far as I am aware he is Assistant Manager/Player at Billericay so unsure if that would leave him any time to also be our loan manager

4) Will look into Jack Collison for you, I did action that move to Atlanta, he's listed as U18 coach for Atalanta's academy. It might be that you need the larger database or load the MLS to see him?

5) Antonio's position has now been set to 20 for striker, so this should be his natural position when the game is released. 

 

Great news about Antonio, will he see an increase in his stats being a striker ? i.e  finishing etc..

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3 hours ago, Simon Tipple said:

Cheers! Increased to 12 for now. Any higher bumps his RCA a couple of points above his CA and I'm not sure there's any attributes I'd feel comfortable decreasing at this stage. Can look again in Jan!

i really don't understand this. CA shouldn't even be considered when giving players their attributes. You most definitely shouldn't even have to consider dropping other attributes to justify raising another to where it should be. I've seen CA mentioned a few times in this thread and it seems an awful way to decide stats when they don't affect on pitch performances, which is the most important thing about attributes.

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@Dan Ormsby 

In case you've missed my previous  post...

William Saliba should be able to become homegrown for Arsenal (which he is not in the BETA) before he turns 21. It seems that the those rules are not so much about days spent in nation/club :/

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/william-saliba-arsenal-saint-etienne-premier-league-squad

http://theafcnewsroom.com/features/the-reason-why-william-saliba-was-named-in-arsenals-premier-league-squad-this-season/

 

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7 minutes ago, RobertPage said:

i really don't understand this. CA shouldn't even be considered when giving players their attributes. You most definitely shouldn't even have to consider dropping other attributes to justify raising another to where it should be. I've seen CA mentioned a few times in this thread and it seems an awful way to decide stats when they don't affect on pitch performances, which is the most important thing about attributes.

A player is the sum of their attributes so we always have to consider their CA. Their leadership does affect on pitch performance. You're right that we should rate attributes as they should be, although in this case we're talking about a 32 year who we'd expect to be in decline. So I wouldn't feel comfortable increasing his CA at this time. I really need to see more of him at Brighton before I'm in a position to properly review his profile.

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29 minutes ago, josipk said:

@Dan Ormsby 

In case you've missed my previous  post...

William Saliba should be able to become homegrown for Arsenal (which he is not in the BETA) before he turns 21. It seems that the those rules are not so much about days spent in nation/club :/

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/william-saliba-arsenal-saint-etienne-premier-league-squad

http://theafcnewsroom.com/features/the-reason-why-william-saliba-was-named-in-arsenals-premier-league-squad-this-season/

 

Ah yeah I did see this but forgot to reply, my apologies.  This isn't a database or research issue I don't think.  Would probably have to be a feature request to the gameplay team as I can't imagine the game mechanics currently support something like this.  

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11 minutes ago, josipk said:

@Dan Ormsby 

In case you've missed my previous  post...

William Saliba should be able to become homegrown for Arsenal (which he is not in the BETA) before he turns 21. It seems that the those rules are not so much about days spent in nation/club :/

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/william-saliba-arsenal-saint-etienne-premier-league-squad

http://theafcnewsroom.com/features/the-reason-why-william-saliba-was-named-in-arsenals-premier-league-squad-this-season/

 

We'll investigate this but it's worth noting that neither source backs their interpretation up with any evidence and those articles are speculative at best. When a player goes on loan outside of his parent club's country, that move comes with a temporary transfer of registration that usually interrupts this period of qualification (and while the FA no longer make their registration bulletins public, you can find old ones that demonstrate this). It's why Bertrand Traore is not listed as home grown for Aston Villa this season despite being contracted to Chelsea from 2013 (when he was 18) to 2017 (when he was just about to turn 22):

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1869523

When joining Chelsea an 18 year-old like Saliba and going on loan immediately, he was included in the Under-21 list ( can't find the PL link so this is the next best thing - https://talksport.com/football/191858/confirmed-chelseas-official-25-man-premier-league-squad-and-u21-list-140904111917/ ) while on loan at Vitesse. It can be very hard to navigate this stuff - clubs often fall foul of it themselves - so be careful what's put out there. Like I said though, we'll look into it.

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On 15/11/2020 at 19:38, Stubear said:

Gareth bales loan contract to Tottenham is not correct. There is no option to extend the loan for a second season. Also he is massively underated. I find it hard to believe all these others strikers that are better in most areas. His mentality is to low, his vision is Miles better in real life, his technique should be second to none and his attacking should be better. For someone world class he has got terrible ratings.

Hi, thanks for the feedback.  The loan extension issue was previously raised and should be fixed in time for the offiicial release.

Regarding his stats, they were set by the Real Madrid researcher.  I'll review and almost certainly make some significant adjustments in the winter data update depending on how he plays between now and then.

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On 15/11/2020 at 15:58, TheInvisibleMan said:

Think Elliot Anderson at Newcastle should have a bit of an upgrade. He's now training with the Newcastle first team (regularly in photos on their website), has been on the bench in the Carabao Cup and is one of the best players in PL 2 Division 2, all while still being eligible for their U18s team. He clearly has a lot of potential and Newcastle rate him highly so this should be reflected in the game. He's also a Scotland U19 international.

He's also signed a new contract until 2024, probably on a first team wage now. More proof of how highly he's rated at the club too.

Source: https://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/teenage-midfielder-elliot-anderson-signs-new-long-term-deal/

Thanks for this. We have already updated his contract details, and whilst I agree that he is definitely a prospect - there is still a long way to go for him. I have put his PA at a decent value, and his rating 'in game' will depend on circumstances within that save.

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On 12/11/2020 at 11:25, swansongs said:

Crossposting from the Wales thread, Gareth Bale is showing as a half star recommendation in Wales squads in every role/position, and in my experiences so far doesn't get picked for the national team in saves. Had a look at his profile and don't see any reason why. He's rated fine with Spurs. The players picked ahead of him for Wales are way below him even allowing for funny calculations of his best position.

This happened in my game too.  Although in a friend's game it wasn't happening, so appears to be a bug of some sort.

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On 13/11/2020 at 02:24, tobybilton1 said:

State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data:

Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg marking of 10 seems low given the role and impact he is having playing that role for Spurs.          

State what you think the data should be:

I think this should be at least 12. For context, Sissoko is 11, Winks 12, Ndombele 13. You wouldn't say that Hojbjerg is the worst marker of the four.                     

State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements. 

It can be tough to provide statistical evidence on marking per se, as I'm not sure what the exact metric would be, you can't really count 'marking'. However, looking at his defensive stats from last season, specifically duels won and lost, the ratios could support my argument for him to have better marking. 

"Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg is a very good presser and marker. Not only can he adjust to man marking responsibilities, but he can adapt to zonal marking tactics as well. He is an expert in recovering balls. Last season in the Premier League, he was the midfielder with the most ball recoveries in the final third"

I have found a 'Welcome to Spurs' video uploaded to YouTube three weeks ago. I'd like to point out these are not my favourite sorts of content but you can clearly see how well he performs in marking. Look at the job he did on Bruno Fernandes and Marcus Rashford, for example. There are plenty more examples in this clip: youtube.com/watch?v=LWF0jyMK5t0

Appreciate that this may not yet be the finished version, but as he currently is in the game, he's not somebody that you would expect to keep long-term in the save, perhaps even suggesting that he needs a bump up in CA. 

image.png

Hi, thanks for your post and the evidence to back it up.  Hojbjerg's stats were set by the Southampton researcher.  I'll review and make changes for the winter update, depending on how he performs between now and then.

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Bear in mind, I'm currently in February on my Lazio save so some of these attributes might have changed in any direction, apologies if I got any of them wrong.

 

James Milner

Claim: Natural Fitness 18->19; Stamina 16->18; Composure 14->16; Acceleration 11->10; Dribbling 12->11.

Proof: It wouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's been following Liverpool videos on YT to find out that he wins the lactate test for fitness every single pre-season - https://talksport.com/football/569658/liverpool-james-milner-wins-fitness-test/

And according to TAA he's still the most fit player at Liverpool - https://www.kingfut.com/2020/11/14/trent-alexander-arnold-chooses-salah-to-complete-ideal-player/

Jurgen Klopp even said himself 2 years ago that Milner can play until he's 38 - https://www.eurosport.com/football/milner-can-play-until-he-is-38-says-liverpool-boss-klopp_sto6899663/story.shtml

Considering Henderson has 18 for Stamina (deservedly so) then so should Milner, however Milner's Natural Fitness should be slightly higher (19 to Hendo's 18) considering his age to ability ratio.

Milner's composure should also see improvement. 14 is by no means bad but it doesn't highlight how calm and collected Milner is a player. Just look at his penalty record - https://www.transfermarkt.com/james-milner/elfmetertore/spieler/3333

He hasn't missed a single one since 2017. Which is replicated by his 17 penalty taking, of course, but even great penalty takers like Jorginho can sometimes miss purely because of lack of composure. Milner doesn't.

And if that proof isn't enough, just look at his stats for "Errors leading to goals" - https://www.premierleague.com/players/2100/James-Milner/stats

In his 544 appearances and despite the fact that a lot of those appearances were as either left or right-back he only made 2 mistakes leading to goal in his entire career that spans more than 16 years now. It's incredibly impressive.

However, age comes at a cost, and I would argue that 11 acceleration is a bit too generous. His top speed is still decent, but in the last two seasons it's become clear that he is struggling to consistently man-mark fast PL forwards like Aubameyang & Traore (who are really quick off their mark) without fouling them.

It's also been a while since I saw Millie beat a man by dribbling past him, so maybe downgrade his dribbling a bit, at the very least to offset some of these upgrades I suggested.

 

Thiago Alcantara

(I'm going to link sources separately for this player)

Claim: Consistency & Important Matches (?)->14; Teamwork 10->12; Determination 11->14; Natural Fitness 11->14; Technique 17->19; Passing 17->18; Decisions 13->15; Acceleration 14->15; Agility 17->18

Proof: Although I understand that it's very hard for a Research Team to make any changes after he has only made 2 appearances for Liverpool this season, Thiago has consistently been put on lists of top3/top5 midfielders in the world by fans and pundits alike, and there's a good reason for that. So even though there isn't a lot of information to go off based on those 2 appearances, there's a whole Bundesliga & Champions League campaign from Bayern last season, where he was the absolute key to their success. A lot of his attributes, however, including some hidden ones do him a massive injustice, and do not reflect what a brilliant player he is.

Consistency - I may be wrong but he had 10 consistency in FM20 and it does seem it's the same in FM21, which sounds awfully low for a top5 midfielder in the world who performs on a consistent basis.

Important Matches - again, I'm not sure of the exact number but if his record last season is anything to go by it should be in the region of 14-15.

Teamwork - this is pretty straightforward. Klopp would never buy a player who doesn't perform for the team, because gegenpressing is all about team effort, and considering Thiago's defensive contribution (1.9 interceptions & 1.9 tackles in Bundesliga last season) 10 teamwork seems very low.

Determination - a player who gets injured so many times and performs every single time he comes back should have his determination in the region of 17-20, but since there isn't actually enough proof to go off, 14 will do unless somebody else wants to make an argument for more.

Natural Fitness - he played 4 games straight in the space of 2 weeks in Bayern's CL campaign back in August, starting every time and averaging 82 minutes per game. A player with 11 Natural Fitness would not be able to play even for 3 games straight, let alone get MOTM twice in such important & high intensity games. His record also shows that whenever he's fit he rarely starts on the bench which means that it's not a problem for him to be back to his best in almost no-time.

Technique - it looks like an oversight, because he had 19 technique in FM20, and he has done a lot over the last year to suggest that it's completely justified. That change should be reversed.

Passing - same as the above. 18 was what he had in FM20. In CL last season he averaged 1.5 key passes per game & 91% passing accuracy, so 18 is just right.

Decisions, Acceleration & Agility - these are the attributes that are so crucial in making him as dangerous as he is. His ability to resist press by dodging an opponent running at him and immediately making a beautiful & accurate forward pass is almost Messi-esque. There are countless of YouTube videos proving that, but just watch his performance against Everton this season and it becomes evidently clear. 

The man has only two weaknesses - his bad injury record and his occasional lack of concentration (both of which are well reflected in-game already).

I understand that it's a lot of attributes to upgrade without downgrading any to compensate, but hopefully after you look through the sources you will see all those upgrades are both justified & necessary to replicate the real life.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiago_Alcântara

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-thiago-alcantaras-2019-20-stats-to-liverpools-current-midfielders/

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/74939/History/Thiago

https://www.transfermarkt.com/thiago/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/60444/plus/1?saison=2019&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=

https://topsoccerblog.com/top-best-midfielders-in-the-world/

https://www.footballcritic.com/top-players/defensive-midfielders

 

Mohamed Salah

Claim: Penalty Taking 15->16

Proof: Second best penalty-taker after Milner in Liverpool, and lately it seems like he's also a designated penalty-taker even when Milner is on the pitch. Oh, and he also hasn't missed a single penalty since 2017 (he missed 2 for Egypt in 2018 in the same game which was a 6-0 win so I'm going to assume it wasn't even relevant whether he'd miss or not) - https://www.transfermarkt.com/mohamed-salah/elfmetertore/spieler/148455

 

Joel Matip

Should perhaps consider upping his Consistency & Important Matches a bit. The man is a walking injury but whenever he's on the pitch he performs, even outshining VVD on occasion.

 

Diogo Jota

Should perhaps have his PA upped a little after his performances for Liverpool & Portugal this season?

 

Honestly, though, I haven't noticed much else that needs updating apart from these players and the ones in my previous post, so overall I'd really like to thank you for the job that you guys did.

Edited by ClarkKent1
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I know it is a little hard to have a direct comparison and stats are all subjective based upon the researchers opinion / how they apply the criteria. But if you compare Martinelli & Greenwood who both had their proper break through seasons at the same time (2019/20) last year, have been rated quite differently with Greenwood being rated much higher than Martinelli and not sure why? One stat in particular that really stands out for me if is Martinelli's finishing at 12!

whilst I accept Greenwood scored 19 goals last year compared to the 10 goals scored by Martinelli a breakdown of the stats shows they have a very similar goals per game / minute ratio. 

last season Greenwood played in 51 first team games, playing a total of 2744 minutes, the equivalent to 30.48 full  90 minute matches, so his strike rate was equivalent to 0.37 goals per appearance or 0.62 goals per 90 minutes played. 

Martinelli featured in 26 first team games, playing a total of 1463 minutes, equivalent to 16.25 full 90 minute matches so his strike rate was equivalent to 0.38 goals per appearance or 0.61 goals per 90 minutes. 

therefore please explain why Mason Greenwood has finishing of 17 yet Martinelli has finishing of 12 surely one if them is either over or under rated and if Greenwood has finishing of 17, Martinelli's has got to be increased in line with this to at least 15 or 16 minimum.

Martinelli's finishing at 12 is surely a bit unfair, especially given players like Resis Nelson & Dani Ceballos also have 12 and other players that certainly are not renowned for scoring have higher ratings, like Oxlade chamberlain (13), Phil Foden (14) & even Deli Ali (15). 

its also the case that Martinelli has been compared by Ronaldinho (arguably one of the worlds best ever players) to the Brazilian Ronaldo with him stating

"We as Brazilians are very excited about him and his future. It is one thing to have the talent, but another at the age of 18 to have the confidence.

"He reminds me of Ronaldo. His first season in Europe he scored 30 goals and people were thinking: ‘who is this 18-year-old Brazilian kid?’ He wanted the ball, he would run at players, there was no fear no matter what players or team he was playing against—and I see that similar attitude in Martinelli.

"He just wants to be on the ball and score goals. Ronaldo went on to be the best player in the world, and that can also be the aim of Martinelli."

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In yellow says some fixtures for this season will be moved due to 2026 World Cup yet im only in season 2022/23 so shouldnt this be saying due to 2022 World Cup instead, also when you click on next season on the rules page it also says fixtures will be moved due to 2026 world cup but they wont be moved at all

2020-11-17 (2).png

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Not sure if this has been brought up, but Haaland has a release clause that expires in 2021 in the game but from what I can see he has a clause but it doesn't become active until 2022

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/erling-haaland-release-clause-real-madrid-man-united-transfer-latest-a4446686.html

Also, Messi has a optional further year that Barcelona can activate on the game. Is this the case in real life? 

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4 hours ago, GSevensM75 said:

I'll review and make changes for the winter update

Thank you for the reply on this, as you're aware i've been advocating this for a few days now and appreciate that he will be reviewed. Just to confirm, the winter update is not the transfer update we get in Feb/March is it?  

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4 hours ago, tobybilton1 said:

Thank you for the reply on this, as you're aware i've been advocating this for a few days now and appreciate that he will be reviewed. Just to confirm, the winter update is not the transfer update we get in Feb/March is it?  

The update/patch released around Feb/March IS the one that includes the winter transfer window moves and researchers mid-season reviews of players.

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On 15/11/2020 at 19:59, Nick OGS20 said:

In addition to Santy's post, I think the Fofana/Partey supposed inconsistency is a very easy one to explain. Fofana is 19 and didn't even have a full season behind him before his move, you can understand the researcher(s) covering ASSE being cautious (they haven't even seen that much of him) but when he's made such an impression after the move and you've got the game pushing him out on loan, there's a lot of justification for making some changes. Partey's 27 and was at a big club in a big league for a long time - it might be that Arsenal fans (and others) disagree with how he's rated in certain areas but the research team in Spain have had a lot of time and opportunity to assess him and refine his profile, plus he's rated as one of the best players in the Premier League in his position so there is no pressing need to hastily overrule the previous research efforts.

Respectively I've got to disagree.  On one hand we are told that Chelsea youngsters are set and won't be changed cause the chelsea researcher has seen them more than anyone, but now we're getting told that the St. Etienne researcher has only saw a handful of games.  Or are you admitting that there is a big league bias, where someone in the French league (apart from PSG) is never going to be the same once they move to the EPL?

To be honest, I'm not too bothered with Partey, I'm more interested in how Saliba's PA compares with Fofana's, especially Saliba was rated the higher of the two.  It's well known why Saliba hasn't played or been registered and is nothing to do with his ability or potential.

I'd also like to know why there is such a difference between the PA of Saka compared with Foden or Greenwood?  Saka showed last season how much potential he had, and is now in the England squad playing in competitive fixtures much like Greenwood (before his transgressions).  Saka has a PA lower than Mustafi.  I know Arsenal used to be rated very highly a few seasons ago, but it seems that certain players are not getting treated fairly because of it.  Martinelli is another with his PA.  He looked fantastic before his injury, was coveted by big clubs and was classed as a generational talent.  He has the same PA as Mustafi.  I don't recall Mustafi ever being classed as a generational talent by one of the best managers in the game.

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Fred (Man Utd):

I understand the revamp of his attributes into more of a ball-winning midfielder but I think he's still extremely underrated. His 19/20 season was great, was one of the main candidates for a Man Utd Player of the Season before Bruno arrived and he's still playing really well in the 20/21 season.

Some stats:

Europe's most intense pressers in 19/20

Since joining Man Utd, Fred has made more ball recoveries per 90 in the Premier League than any other outfield player with 900+ minutes.

His stats in 19/20 compared to Kante & Ndidi (PL Only)

My opinion:

+2 Marking

+1 Tackling

+3 Aggression

+2 Anticipation

+2 Bravery

+1 Concentration

+1 Determination

+2 Positioning

+1 Teamwork

+2 Work Rate

Might have to slightly nerf his technicals to compensate though.

 

I hope this is fair, thanks in advance! :)

Edited by Fraaj
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16 hours ago, Simon Tipple said:

So we have a guideline for Aerial Reach that corresponds to the Goalkeepers height. 9 represents average for Ryan, which I think is fair. I agree with reducing Command of Area though so have made that change. His Communication had already been increased this version, as that was something that became a lot more noticeable with no fans in the ground! As you noted, Reflexes had also already been improved this year. I've nudged up his Communication and Agility by a further point and reduced his Positioning a little. 

I'd welcome @ChaffRAFC opinion here regarding his time at Rochdale. His profile has been updated since last year although not any of the GK attributes as such. I bumped up his reputation given his debut vs Spurs but tbh due to his loan spells I haven't seen a huge amount of him in action to feel comfortable making significant changes myself just yet. It's still a bit unclear whether he's actually ahead of Walton for example in the pecking order, given Walton picked up the injury in the Chelsea friendly.

I totally get why people would think he shouldn't have 14 for pace. It's a tricky number to really quantify but there's been a couple of occasions when I've been able to see him up close in this regard. There was an U23s games at Lancing when at half-time he was doing sprint from the goal-line to the half-way line and I was like woooah, he's quicker than I thought. I was also fortunate enough to go to a training session once where he was surprisingly quick. I guess that stuff has always stuck with me. I totally appreciate his initial acceleration isn't great but once he gets going he's not bad! If I reduce his Pace to 13, I wouldn't be comfortable with Acceleration 12, as I think there needs to be a more notable difference there. I'd be more inclined to drop Acceleration to 11 than Pace to 13. Historically, I've always felt his Positioning wasn't a strong point, I think we've covered that one in previous years and I also think back to Burnley away last season where I think he's been caught out a bit. So I get where you're coming from but I'm not totally sold on making these suggested changes.

Fair point, I've bumped it up a little bit more.

Based on what I've seen at Brighton so far, I'd be inclined to agree with an increase. However @Reddiablo, is a lot more familiar with Veltman than I am so I haven't rushed into any changes given the limited minutes he's had so far. If @Reddiablois agreeable I wouldn't be against a minor tweak here before release, but otherwise I'll probably hold off for now.

I've dropped him a little way before Beta and again around the beta deadline (so not sure if latest change is in the public beta). I agree in that I thought he looked very promising under Chris Hughton, although I suppose any attacking intent after Bong would have impressed. I'm not keen on massively reducing him though as I think that could potentially see him a tad under rated at wherever he ends up next. His rep has been dropped to reflect his lower status in the pecking order here. 

He's a tough one as I understand that those attributes give the appearance that he's been underrated but he really does have a very good CA for his age and a lot of potential. I would fully expect those technical attributes to improve in-game as he progresses. I also think a huge amount of his game is about running at players, or running in behind, and essentially making things happen! I'm not sure we've seen a huge amount of evidence, that his technical attributes are particularly strong yet. I'd also ponder, if they were that strong, why is he a wing back? Wouldn't he be better recognised as a winger/forward etc? I do agree that he's got a great ability to get out of trouble and find a pass - and it's genuinely great to finally get some feedback that references that. I personally think feedback like that is waaay more useful to me than "here's how his stats compare to X,Y,Z". 

Suggesting a Pace drop is interesting, and just goes to show how opinions can differ as there was another post suggesting it should go up to 18! I think at the moment 16 is ok. A 15 would feel like a little like I'm trying to manipulate the attributes a bit too much to give some wiggle room. Similar to his Left Foot rating, which is one of those things gamers don't really see. Every value from 8 to 14 for example, will still display as "Right" but makes a significant difference to his overall ability. He's actually good with his left foot, so I'm not going to drop it just so that I can increase a few other attributes. It is sometimes these things that you can't necessarily see on screen that make impact on a players ability too. 

I've tweaked up his CA a little bit so accommodate some further changes. I've given him a fixed PA now as the PA in the beta was a minus range so could potentially have generated lower than I'm comfortable with. Contract wise that'll happen simply because he's paid far too little given his ability. I don't have a huge issue with that as it seems we're trying to agree a new deal IRL anyway. I've tweaked some of his mental attributes, but I suspect he'll still want a new deal in-game.

Agreed, changed.

Fair, changed.

One where I'd look to @diddydaddydoddyfor his input. Certainly agree that his Leadership could be looked at as he's very much taken on that type of role both on and off the pitch. 

Hmm, not sure I'd agree that he's that level yet, but potentially yes. Fair point on Finishing, have dropped that. I've tweaked up his ability a little and improved his Marking, Tackling and Positioning but wouldn't be comfortable going to those level you've suggested yet.

He has yes. Agreed with the PPM. Still remember this moment when his composure and decision making was founding wanting against Chelsea. Moments like that concern me with proposed increases in those attributes, although it's fair to see he is very composed. I think I might tweak up just the composure for now and perhaps put that error down to concentration and decisions. 

I get the point, although equally when I think about it as representative of his mental focus throughout the 90 minutes I don't think he's the type of player to drop off as the game goes on. He's very experienced now and pretty consistent with his actions throughout the 90 minutes. 

Fair, added.

Agreed, changed. 

Dropped his Flair, but not sure about adding the PPM.

Not sure about the PPM, think that's just a reflection of his ability to find space. He uses his left footed loads, not sure it's just down to his position. That United game for example I think every shot was with his left! 

Ah, his height wasn't set so was randomised. Fixed now. I'm not sure regarding U18/U23s, would take some further investigation. 

I don't have a source for Roberts height but it's set to randomise between 5'9 and 5'11..

Will get the Norwood clause removed.

Thank you for the detailed reply! I imagine that's the Brighton data pretty much set in stone so will keep my reply relatively quick. (No need to respond, just a couple of comments). 

Ryan - Cheers

Sanchez - Haven't seen a response from the Rochdale researcher, hopefully they can reply before your deadline whenever that is. 

Dunk - Completely fair enough if you've witnessed him in a couple of other scenarios.

White - Cheers

Veltman - Seen the response from the Ajax researcher - Cheers for following up with them. 

Bernardo - Fair enough 

Lamptey - 'Suggesting a Pace drop is interesting, and just goes to show how opinions can differ as there was another post suggesting it should go up to 18! I think at the moment 16 is ok. A 15 would feel like a little like I'm trying to manipulate the attributes a bit too much to give some wiggle room.' - My opinion is that acc & pace are just too OP for the game if you cant represent mentals and technicals as you see them. Although I get that perhaps you don't think they are as good as some have suggested. For what it's worth, I undervalued his mental and technical attributes as I know acc & pace take up so much CA. 

'I'm not sure we've seen a huge amount of evidence, that his technical attributes are particularly strong yet. I'd also ponder, if they were that strong, why is he a wing back? Wouldn't he be better recognised as a winger/forward etc?' - There are plenty of average full backs in the game with c. 13+ for crossing, dribbling. technique, passing and off the ball, but the fact they can defend makes them a full back and not a winger at lower level. 

Look forward to seeing what changes you've made. Let's see how he get's on until January update. 

Burn - Cheers

Molumby - Cheers

Lallana - Thanks for following up with the Liverpool researcher. One to look at more in January maybe. Surprised about the finishing comment though. I thought it should be how well a player finishes when an opportunity is presented, not trying to curtail how many they get in the game because in real life they don't find themselves in scoring positions often. PPM - Comes deep to get ball and passes rather than shooting PPM's can help with that.

Bissouma - Fair enough but good he's getting a little boost at least. Really expect him to continue kicking on. 

Alzate - Yep fair enough

Propper - Ok fair enough

Mac Allister - Cheers

Jahanbakhsh - Cheers 

Gross - Think multiple Cruyff turns

Trossard - Not entirely disagreeing on the left foot and fair point on movement. 

Connolly - Cheers

U18 & 23's - Is that something you can look into for the January update please? I avoid viewing CA & PA's until the end of the real life season when I get a bit bored of the game, otherwise I'd happily do it myself! 

Edits - Cheers 

Thanks again, and lets hope we start picking up a few wins that I think our performances have deserved! 

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33 minutes ago, Brighton123 said:

Lallana - Thanks for following up with the Liverpool researcher. One to look at more in January maybe. Surprised about the finishing comment though. I thought it should be how well a player finishes when an opportunity is presented, not trying to curtail how many they get in the game because in real life they don't find themselves in scoring positions often. PPM - Comes deep to get ball and passes rather than shooting PPM's can help with that.

The Finishing descriptive is correct, however the original post claimed that he scored a lot, I responded to that point that he hasn't done for Liverpool. I'd argue that Liverpool produce lot of goal scoring opportunities (more than Southampton, with respect to them) and yet his goalscoring has reduced, could be in some part why his Finishing attribute is low  (plus injuries, role, other attributes more pertinent yet CA dropping etc). He was with us for 6 years and I've been the researcher for c 3 years of that, so there's a synergy between my thoughts and my predecessor's opinion based on reality of what we've actually seen.

Edited by diddydaddydoddy
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2 hours ago, Come on ye pars said:

Respectively I've got to disagree.  On one hand we are told that Chelsea youngsters are set and won't be changed cause the chelsea researcher has seen them more than anyone, but now we're getting told that the St. Etienne researcher has only saw a handful of games.  Or are you admitting that there is a big league bias, where someone in the French league (apart from PSG) is never going to be the same once they move to the EPL?

To be honest, I'm not too bothered with Partey, I'm more interested in how Saliba's PA compares with Fofana's, especially Saliba was rated the higher of the two.  It's well known why Saliba hasn't played or been registered and is nothing to do with his ability or potential.

Wesley Fofana had played less than 30 competitive senior matches before leaving St. Etienne, if I remember correctly. The French research team quite rightly were not prepared to give him a CA and attributes to match that would make him a very good CB for most of the Premier League given that sample size. PA for young players is clearly different - that will be from watching U23/U19/U18 football and making judgements on those with outstanding potential.

Why has Saliba not been played or registered, then? I don't believe he is unfit? I also disagree that one was 'higher rated' than the other, necessarily - the simple fact is that one has arguably been man of the match in seven straight Premier League and Europa League games for the fifth best team in England, and the other can't get in the squads of the eighth best team.

Edited by tomlcfc
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il y a 8 minutes, tomlcfc a dit :

Wesley Fofana had played less than 30 competitive senior matches before leaving St. Etienne, if I remember correctly. The French research team quite rightly were not prepared to give him a CA and attributes to match that would make him a very good CB for most of the Premier League given that sample size. PA for young players is clearly different - that will be from watching U23/U19/U18 football and making judgements on those with outstanding potential.

Why has Saliba not been played or registered, then? I don't believe he is unfit? I also disagree that one was 'higher rated' than the other, necessarily - the simple fact is that one has arguably been man of the match in seven straight Premier League and Europa League games for the fifth best team in England, and the other can't get in the squads of the eighth best team.

Saliba has not played yet but he was a better prospect in St Etienne in ... August ! 

Fofana is breaking out right now but he was not viewed as a future star, Im french, Saliba was the one who St Étienne fans were raving about.

I do believe they should have similar potential though, but the fact that Saliba isnt starting is baffling, he was playing against Neymar/Mbappe just 3 months ago...

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On 12/11/2020 at 19:16, Matthew Le God said:

Ward-Prowse free kicks

Only Bale, De Bruyne and Maddison have higher than 16 in the Premier League in FM21. 16 is not a low rating.

Question more comes what is in the range of free kick rating. Is it direct free kick on goal or this is done by free kick + long range. Or it is how well he can deliver cross to box( or this is combination with Crossing+ free kick)?

But JWP should be highest on this PL FK rating or have better long shot if that is taken into account with direct free-kick.
He is already reaching to very elite group of players and there is lot to come from him.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54773207

 

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14 minutes ago, tomlcfc said:

Why has Saliba not been played or registered, then? I don't believe he is unfit? 

Thought it's because both his parents died recently and he's not mentally ready yet. 

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Chelsea seems quite well done overall, but I think Werner is either very underrated or Tammy is overrated because Werner has 4 seasons in the top flight of german football with 13/16/21/28 goals in the league whereas tammy has two full season at 5/15 goals. Ofcourse he has had 2 good seasons in the championship but for good reason you clearly dont give high ratings based on very good championship performances (E.G. Watkins).

Based on what I have read I believe Werner would be rated as whoever rated him from last years leipzig researcher but I think he needs a review. He scored 36 in all competitions (Tammy 18) last season (one of the highest in the world) Yet he has 16 Finishing (Tammy 16) and 13 Composure (Tammy 14) - and then there is the issue of other stats in which he loses out to Tammy such has First Touch, Anticipation, Flair, Determination, Work Rate, Decisions (10 to Tammy's 15), Technique - of those stats mentioned its hard to see why he would be lower based on previous years stats and performances. 

Lastly their PA

Spoiler

Werner has 161, Tammy 165 - Based on their previous seasons I would say werner looks a lot more promising and he is only 1.5 years older than Tammy 

Maybe this is something to do with how stats are weighted so I would appreciate a response to why this might be

On other players note without any statistics to go by - Pulisic being the same pace as Tammy, Christensen, Kante, Zouma (15) and slower than Chilwell and Emerson (16) needs a look, pulisic is known to be one of the fastest (if not the fastest) players at chelsea and to have him at the same speed and only +1 acceleration over tammy and -1 to zouma is strange. Although I would assume he isn't finalised yet because he is still seen as a natural right winger rather than an AML which is also incorrect based on last season. With that position change likely to happen I would like to suggest traits "Likes to beat man repeatedly and Cuts inside from left wing"

Everything else seems good although I do agree with a previous poster saying Alonso and Emerson are a bit overrated. Reece James could do with a look at his Strength but I dont know how to prove how strong he is outside of youtube clips of him bodying people.

Cheers!

 

 

Edited by LukeChappers
Changed last year to previous years
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Regarding Timo Werner, his profile was conducted by the previous research team, not the ones in charge now, so for changes maybe you can ask the new ones as they have seen more of the player than the Chelsea researcher.

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23 hours ago, mattgranger said:

Hi @PhillWHU86thanks for the comments, very helpful.

1) Will get Ben Clarkson added in as U23 physio

2) Zavon Hines is an U14 coach for West Ham, hence why he is not on the game currently. If he moves to U18 or higher, we can add him back into the game

3) I haven't been able to find any info on Konchesky still being our loan manager. His LinkedIn doesn't seem to have been updated for a while. As far as I am aware he is Assistant Manager/Player at Billericay so unsure if that would leave him any time to also be our loan manager

4) Will look into Jack Collison for you, I did action that move to Atlanta, he's listed as U18 coach for Atalanta's academy. It might be that you need the larger database or load the MLS to see him?

5) Antonio's position has now been set to 20 for striker, so this should be his natural position when the game is released. 

 

Is Zavon Hines not even in the game as a free agent this year?

Konchesky coaches in the WH academy part-time judging from his Instagram but I’d say his focus is very much at Billericay.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDeNPogJ4tL/?igshid=1hbdqas720p7f

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22 minutes ago, djole said:

Regarding Timo Werner, his profile was conducted by the previous research team, not the ones in charge now, so for changes maybe you can ask the new ones as they have seen more of the player than the Chelsea researcher.

Thanks I have copied the post over regarding him

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22 minutes ago, LukeChappers said:

On other players note without any statistics to go by - Pulisic being the same pace as Tammy, Christensen, Kante, Zouma (15) and slower than Chilwell and Emerson (16) needs a look, pulisic is known to be one of the fastest (if not the fastest) players at chelsea and to have him at the same speed and only +1 acceleration over tammy and -1 to zouma is strange. Although I would assume he isn't finalised yet because he is still seen as a natural right winger rather than an AML which is also incorrect based on last season. With that position change likely to happen I would like to suggest traits "Likes to beat man repeatedly and Cuts inside from left wing"

Surprised Chillwell's that quick. Tall players like Abraham and Zouma are often going to have high Pace attributes - long legs covering ground quickly over distances. Centre halves at big clubs tend to need high Pace for defending 1v1, given the high lines and no support from marauding full backs.

Generally "quick" forward players will have their advantages in Acceleration, Agility and Off The Ball rather than pure Pace, beating players with Technique, Flair and Dribbling.

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25 minutes ago, lbowman6 said:

Is Zavon Hines not even in the game as a free agent this year?

Konchesky coaches in the WH academy part-time judging from his Instagram but I’d say his focus is very much at Billericay.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDeNPogJ4tL/?igshid=1hbdqas720p7f

Hines retired from playing due to injury. He is in the database as an unemployed U18 coach, but may not be loaded into every game.

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33 minutes ago, Fraaj said:

Thought it's because both his parents died recently and he's not mentally ready yet. 

Didn't know that, and while it's obviously unfortunate, it would be difficult to rate a player who isn't playing. Ultimately one of the key things about the research should be that the AI will pick roughly the same teams that real-life managers are selecting, based on players' abilities. We couldn't have Fofana being loaned out and not picked ahead of Wes Morgan by the game, for instance, when he already looks a star in the making.

1 minute ago, swansongs said:

Surprised Chilwell's that quick

One of his outstanding assets, for me. When he does his signature, chest-out burst through the midfield, he is obviously rapid.

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20 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

For us to make changes we need evidence - as is stated in the first post:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.         

There's no real evidence other than personal opinion above, and whilst we appreciate football is an opinionated game, we'd need much more factual evidence in order for us to consider these kinds of points. 

Thanks. 

This shows a problem in how you address these issues.

It relies on the idea that we know:

1.  Enough about how the stats interact with the match engine to recommend changes

2.  Enough about not just the players but players at other clubs too in order to provide comparative value

3.  Enough about how a team is generating the results that it is and what specific causation we can do to change that

The problem here is that nobody outside the development team has any idea about that and frankly, it's not our job to do this.  All we can tell you is that the simulation of the game as it currently stands has a team that's results are nowhere near reflective of real life, which I presume is what we're aiming for.  We don't know why this occurs.  We don't know what changes to make because we don't know how this occurs.  We don't know what specific attributes and what specific players are causing these problems.  Your match engine is a black box, there is no way for us to know this.

Asking for player stats to change in order to address this is like saying that you cannot talk about NHS efficiency unless you are willing to point out problems in each Doctor's schedule.  We're not talking about a specific and isolated problem which can be debated with links to Opta or whatever, we're talking about a broad problem which doesn't have a simple "move this from 18 to 17" fix.  People are trying to point to player stats specifically because when issues are raised, the reply is always "what stats need changing/provide evidence".  But it isn't a player stats issue, it's an issue with the simulation being unrealistic which MAY be contributed to by player stats but as stressed earlier, we don't know.

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3 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

The original post claimed that he scored a lot, I responded to that point that he hasn't done for Liverpool. I'd argue that Liverpool produce lot of goal scoring opportunities (more than Southampton, with respect to them) and yet his goalscoring has reduced, could be in some part why his Finishing attribute was reduced too (plus injuries, role etc). He was with us for 6 years and I've been the researcher for c 3 years of that, so there's a synergy between my thoughts and my predecessor's opinion based on reality of what we've actually seen.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry, I said a' good amount for a playmaker'. Inferring that a playmaker may not necessarily score a great deal. He certainly hasn't scored a scored a bucket load and my perception was that it was due to him being a playmaker rather than someone who puts themselves in goal scoring positions on a regular basis. He scored 8 for Liverpool in 16/17, his second highest tally in the Premier league. He had his bad hamstring injury in July 2017 so his drop off could coincide with that and his struggle top get back in the team on a regular basis. 

As for my comment, it was just my perception and an observation I made without asking for any attribute changes in that area. I only asked for leadership and vision to be looked at. 

That being said, you've prompted me to do some digging.

Lallana has had 279 shots on goal in the Premier League, on target accuracy of 34% - https://www.premierleague.com/players/4618/player/stats. He has scored 30 goals at a 10.75% conversion rate. He has missed 24 big chances - 8.6% of his total number of shots.

For comparison, not the best and a limited supply of data, the 20th best  player conversation rate in the 17/18 season was 15.6% (Arnautovic). So Lallana does fall outside of what you could call a top finisher, though strikers may get more easy chances? So conversation rate for midfields may naturally be lower.  

I've tried to compare similar players with Lallana to see if he is underrated in that area. Ones that are still playing.

Sigurdsson - 610 shots, 36% accuracy - 61 goals - 10% conversion rate - 31 big chances missed - 5.1% of his total number of shots 

Barkley - 428 shots, 29% accuracy - 27 goals at 6.3% conversion rate - 26 big chances missed - 6.7% of his total number of shots

Eriksen - 584 shots, 36% accuracy - 51 goals at 8.7% conversion rate - 20 big chances missed - 3.4% of his total number of shots 

David Silva - 552 shots, 34% accuracy - 60 goals at 10.9% conversion rate - 55 big chances missed - 10% of his total number of shots 

Coutinho - 504 shots, 31% accuracy - 41 goals at 8.1% conversion rate - 16 big chances missed - 3.2% of his total number of shots 

Mata - 365 shots, 37% accuracy - 51 goals at 13.9% conversion rate - 29 big chances missed - 8% of his total number of shots

De Bruyne - 382 shots, 35% accuracy - 37 goals at 9.7% conversion rate - 14 big chances missed - 3.7% of his total number of shots

All stats taken from https://www.premierleague.com and I did the percentages manually. 

I haven't got time to review each players FM attributes as I should be working lol. Off the top of my head all of the above will have significantly better attributes for finishing and long shots. I would imagine that they also have comparable composure, technique and decisions.  

Based on the sample set, Lallana is middle of the road for shot accuracy and 3rd out of 8 for conversion rate. His big chances missed is 7th out of 8, but comparable to Mata who is in 6th position. Those with lower big chances missed I'd suggest are those more willing to shoot from distance, but that it just an assumption on my part. 

Make of the data what you will. For me, it suggests Lallana is quite underrated for finishing (unsure on long shots tbh). He has also scored more left footed goals than right footed and seems two footed to me (right probably slightly more dominant). Last year his profile was  either footed but he is right footed in this years edition. Seen as he hardly played last season it's an odd thing to change. Was it due to dropping his CA but to keep some of his attributes in place? 

Cheers

Edited by Brighton123
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7 minutes ago, swansongs said:

Surprised Chillwell's that quick. Tall players like Abraham and Zouma are often going to have high Pace attributes - long legs covering ground quickly over distances. Centre halves at big clubs tend to need high Pace for defending 1v1, given the high lines and no support from marauding full backs.

Generally "quick" forward players will have their advantages in Acceleration, Agility and Off The Ball rather than pure Pace, beating players with Technique, Flair and Dribbling.

Yea I fully agree about the tall players but I still think of pulisic as an outlier in speed similar to werner (18a.18p). Puli is currently 17/15 - When there is players like lacazette who is 16/16 (tbf this seems too high), Pepe who is 19/17, ASM - 16/17, Welbeck and DCL - 16/15 (I know you said about long legs but still) and probably more but maybe I am overthinking it.

If your last sentence is more in reference to the game rather than real life (or maybe you meant both) then I understand the attributes a bit more in that case. 

Cheers for the response!

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