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[England Premier Division] Data Issues


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49 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Arsenal researcher? Any update on Lacazette/ partey suggestions. Their stats are quite away off from their profiles as players

 

Partey would have been as of his Atletico stint (so their researcher would have done him), and wouldn't see an update until the next data-update (likely the JanuaryTransfer update, unless we get an updated DB due to some issues)

Please tell me you're not rating Lacazette in comparison to "how he was under Wenger" and "what Mourinho thought of him as ManUtd manager" - when both of those claims would have been at least 2-3 years ago
I do admit that he seems seems slightly overrated to me (he scored 25 goals in season 1 and won the golden boot in my holiday save), which doesn't seem realistic

Note: Not the researcher, but just sharing knowledge

Edited by samdiatmh
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1 hour ago, samdiatmh said:

 

Partey would have been as of his Atletico stint (so their researcher would have done him), and wouldn't see an update until the next data-update (likely the JanuaryTransfer update, unless we get an updated DB due to some issues)

Please tell me you're not rating Lacazette in comparison to "how he was under Wenger" and "what Mourinho thought of him as ManUtd manager" - when both of those claims would have been at least 2-3 years ago
I do admit that he seems seems slightly overrated to me (he scored 25 goals in season 1 and won the golden boot in my holiday save), which doesn't seem realistic

Note: Not the researcher, but just sharing knowledge

I’m rating Lacazette of scoring 10 league goals last season and never scoring more than 14 a single season. In spite of this he is still rated one of the best strikers in league attribute wise. Mid table players like Chris Wood, Antonio, Danny Ings etc... actually offer more than he does irl (ask most arsenal fans) yet are absurdly worse than him in game 

Also him getting subbed off at 70th minute by 4 managers in a row would suggest that he has fairly poor stamina. 16 pace and 16 acceleration are quite frankly absurd stats. Would really love to see how they came to the conclusion that he is that quick because he is actually pretty slow in real life:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/414831/arsenals-first-team-players-ranked-pace-pierre-emerick-aubameyang-official-speed-test-results/amp/

9th fastest in Arsenal’s squad two seasons ago behind players like, Ramsey, Ozil and Rob Holding, and he’s probably even slower now.

 

Edited by _mxrky
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@Dan Ormsby Not sure if you're aware but in game, Sal Bibbo is still working at Arsenal as GK coach, but he left during the summer. 

https://www.arsenal.com/news/coaching-and-backroom-team

Also in addition to this, no mention of Gary O'Driscoll (Medical Director/ Head of Sports Medicine). In previous FM's he was Chief Doctor but has been replaced by Chris Gray.

Edited by Jacklar
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On 13/11/2020 at 15:23, tobybilton1 said:

Absolutely spot on. 

Posted a a few up from your original post @Tottenhamsgonnawintheleague with an argument to support this too, hopefully they take a second look at him

Adding onto this the fact that in each of the saves I’ve started up, Tottenham seem to recruit a replacement for him within the first window. This being the same window Højbjerg was recruited in. 

It feels a real shame that a player that has come into the Spurs team and made a big impact is completely overlooked. 

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I’ve just had a look at Harry Kane and think his passing and vision stats ought to be brought down by quite a few attributes. I would say 14/15 passing and 15 vision would be about right. I think he should also have the trait likes to shoot from distance added. 
i also think son is a little quicker than the game suggests and should have 16/16 atleast for pace and acceleration. 
 

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8 hours ago, Nick OGS20 said:

Will reiterate though, there's absolutely no point suggesting 1-2 point tweaks to attributes in here - things like this will always be subjective, a difference on that scale isn't a 'data issue' but personal preference, for which the editor is there if people want to drill down to that sort of level.

Unless you're playing FMT and have no editor :(

Out of interest, at what point do attribute differences become significant? I was under the impression that behind the scenes things run on a 1-200 scale that is simplified down to 1-20 for us and that therefore a difference in an attribute of "2" may be meaningful when deciding how a player does in game? Even more so when multiplied across multiple attributes that make up the ability to do a particular action like make a pass or run with the ball? Not arguing that is the case in many of these particular examples, just curious if we as players put too much emphasis on the numbers when in reality a broader range of attributes will all play out the same in game?

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1 hour ago, dominoes012 said:

To the researchers, I'm not sure if you can answer this question but will the long term injuries of players such as Van Dijk, Ansu Fati and Joshua Kimmich be updated for the beginning of the season when the actual game comes out?

As posted previously, injury cut-off date for inclusion in the game was 1 August - therefore VVD's injury will not

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7 hours ago, Lingers106 said:

Adding onto this the fact that in each of the saves I’ve started up, Tottenham seem to recruit a replacement for him within the first window. This being the same window Højbjerg was recruited in. 

It feels a real shame that a player that has come into the Spurs team and made a big impact is completely overlooked. 

Højbjerg's attributes in the main will have been set by the Southampton researcher who will have seen him play far more than the THFC researcher. Think he played his first game mid-September and has only played c12 times. So not a massive sample to justify making sweeping changes.

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3 hours ago, Cal585 said:

Out of interest, at what point do attribute differences become significant? I was under the impression that behind the scenes things run on a 1-200 scale that is simplified down to 1-20 for us and that therefore a difference in an attribute of "2" may be meaningful when deciding how a player does in game?

PA and CA are on the 1-200 scale, the other attributes you see on a player's profile are 1-20 as displayed in game. Nick perhaps oversimplified things a little, each attribute is weighted differently for different positions, so changing one attribute by 1 wont have any effect on CA, If you move 5 attributes that you change by 2 then you might start to see an impact on CA depending on how important those attributes are to the position, for example changing a FB's finishing by 2 would be unlikely to make a CA change whereas it might for a striker or AM.

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3 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Højbjerg's attributes in the main will have been set by the Southampton researcher who will have seen him play far more than the THFC researcher. Think he played his first game mid-September and has only played c12 times. So not a massive sample to justify making sweeping changes.

This is definitely a fair point, though the fact that he’s being replaced within the same window he’s brought in does still feel off when he’s almost the first name on the team sheet irl.

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I appreciate this may seem a bit insignificant but I think it could still be corrected.

Ainsley Maitland-Niles has a Penalty Taking value of 7. This is on par with Gabriel and Pablo Mari (both CBs).

He is one of the coolest and most composed penalty takers and I think it should be at least 12 or 13. He doesn't take the penalties for Arsenal so I appreciate it shouldn't be as high as Aubameyang for example, but even then there are certainly other factors that go into this selection.

This video shows 6 supremely taken penalties which, honestly, a player with a 7 in penalties wouldn't be able to pull off so consistently.

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A few information points for Newcastle:

Miguel Almirón - details of his first international goal are missing. It was vs Jordan on 10/9/19

Isaac Hayden - should have Jamaica as an additional nationality. His mother is Jamaican. 

Matty Longstaff was born in Rotherham, not North Shields.

Javi Manquillo - should have 7 U21 caps for Spain.

Allan Saint-Maximin - should have French Guiana as an additional nationality. His mother is apparently French Guianese.

Kyle Scott - should probably have Italy as an additional nationality. Various articles say he's eligible, but I don't know what exactly qualifies him.

Mo Sangaré - his international stats should be 5 caps, 1 goal.  First and only goal vs Sierra Leone on 4/9/19. His birthplace should be Monrovia.

The last ones I think might be intended to be missing because they're players that have already played for one British nation and the secondary nationality is also British, but Paul Dummett, Jamal Lewis and Matt Ritchie all should have English nationality, and Jonjo Shelvey qualified for Scotland through his grandfather.

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A few things with the Liverpool staff:

- Harrison Kingston is no longer at Liverpool:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-coach-exit-breaking-news-19226378

-Jim Moxon got promoted to the first team as doctor:

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/team/first-team/staff/dr-jim-moxon

-Phillip Jacobsen is still at Liverpool according to the official site. A quick google shows nothing about him at Dortmund.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/team/first-team/staff/philipp-jacobsen

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/philipp-jacobsen-4a024448

-Oscar Keogh is listed as the cilium doctor ingame, he is not in connection with Liverpool.

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This is a bit of a sentimental one but Peter Bonetti is listed as a Chelsea Icon. I was wondering if the Chelsea Researcher might consider upgrading him to a Legend? He passed away this year, would be a nice touch. I know winning 2 league cups, an FA cup and the cup winners cup is pretty small fry for Chelsea fans given events since 2003. However any Chelsea fan of a certain vintage will tell you Peter Bonetti will always be Chelsea's no 1. 

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RE: Chelsea

 

I think chelsea could do with a few updates.  Reece James:- could be moved form 168 to 172. Not much of an improvement but he's been realistically pushing trent alexander arnold for england starting spot at age 20. He's also pushing Cesar out , at times playing for chelsea. 

Timo werner:-  Underrated at

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163

PA. More like

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173

 to be honest. Fifa 21 rates him much better then FM21

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(his pa in fifa 21 puts him at 183 in FM).

His FM PA hasn't changed from last season despite scoring 30+ goals at Leipzig. His determination,descisions and PA seem to be the issues. He still plays fairly well in game so far but is part of the Chelsea problems in my Leeds save atm. 

Chelsea problems:- Frank gets fired and the squad underperforms. It looks like the additions of Chillwel, Werner, Havertz and Silva just aren't doing enough. Manchester United overperform... i haven't checked squad CA's but it's pretty clearly an issue somehow, hoping it gets fixed with new data update for release.

Mount:- Keeps getting better and better IRL, seems still underrated in FM. 

Tammy:- Seems legit(ish)

Gilmour:- Maybe a

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fixed PA?

He's unlikely in game to end up as good as he will IRL. 

Thiao Silva:- Add to his leadership it's something i'm reading a lot about by chelsea players...

Havertz:- Looks good buff from

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175 to 180

but his determination seems low, something that happens with German FM scouts a bit compared to other leagues. 

Callum:- Determination increase as well, considering his return form injury etc etc.

Zouma;- Slight buff to his PA due?

 

Edited by deuxmachina
Hiding PA/CA
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There is a problem in the English Leagues i have gone to the 2nd season of my newcastle save and all teams cannot register most of there players. Also when i go to make a transfer offer at the bottom it says "this player cannot be registered unitl 1/1/2022 but when i sign him i can register him normally. I have attached some screenshots.

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William Saliba should be able to become homegrown for Arsenal before he turns 21 (which he is not in the BETA). It seems that the those rules are not so much about days spent in nation/club :/

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/william-saliba-arsenal-saint-etienne-premier-league-squad

http://theafcnewsroom.com/features/the-reason-why-william-saliba-was-named-in-arsenals-premier-league-squad-this-season/

 

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On 10/11/2020 at 23:26, Dan Ormsby said:

I don't agree with this.  Edu's job title at Arsenal is Technical Director, a role we specifically have in game.  When Sanllehi was released, Arsenal made it clear that Venkatesham would be essentially filling the void left, so this by default makes him the Director of Football in FM terms.  Given, he isn't your classic Director of Football and Edu and Arteta will have a strong influence on recruitment policy for players.  But I don't think we need to make a change here, at least not the one you suggest.  Happy to discuss the issue further though.

Sorry you've got this completely wrong. Vinai Venkatesham has a Chief Executive position now and is a technical administrator of the club, he has no involvement in footballing/recruitment/assessing talent decisions and therefore should not have a position in the game which involves such. Edu is making the footballing/recruitment decisions now.

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Spurs - Ben Davies perhaps worthy of a bump to his Leadership? He's definitely a talker on the pitch, and has worn the armband for club and country.

He shouldn't have the 'Get Forward Whenever Possible' PPM as that's something he only does for particular systems and managers - he's equally comfortable holding back (as under Mourinho last season) and being disciplined playing at centre half.

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4 minutes ago, fredo14 said:

Nono... we pay you guys to make unbiased logical decisions on our player stats. It shouldn't be left to me to fix my team because I inevitably get trigger happy.

That being said, it's clear that if a team is performing well (aka Liverpool) then every single player gets a huge attribute premium and the opposite is true. In the case of Arsenal, someone like Partey has been lazily overlooked, whereas players like Saka, Maitland-Niles, Gabriel, Martinelli's attributes have been influenced by the poor performance of the team as a whole (i.e. our midfield + Mustafi last year). It's a very sloppy approach to take to base other Arsenal players' attributes on team performance caused by players like Xhaka and Mustafi throwing themselves to the ground all the time to try and win the ball. How is Leno so bad? 

To tweak the same point again that I made a few posts before yours...

Partey's attributes in the main will have been set by the Atlético Madrid researcher who will have seen him play far more than the Arsenal researcher. Think he played his first game early October for Arsenal and has only played c5 times. So far too small a sample to justify making any sweeping changes. Grandiose comments such as 'lazily overlooked' and 'sloppy approach' are absolutely wrong and unnecessary too:seagull:

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10 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Its not a case of not caring!! Its a case of having a different opinion, rightly or wrongly

I provided facts that Lacazette was 9th fastest player for Arsenal 2 seasons ago behind Ramsey and Ozil. That’s not an opinion. That’s a fact.

16 pace and 16 acceleration is outside the realms of opinion tbh. It’s pretty absurd conclusion to make. It makes faster than heung min son. For example.

Edited by _mxrky
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8 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

To tweak the same point again that I made a few posts before yours...

Partey's attributes in the main will have been set by the Atlético Madrid researcher who will have seen him play far more than the Arsenal researcher. Think he played his first game early October for Arsenal and has only played c5 times. So far too small a sample to justify making any sweeping changes. Grandiose comments such as 'lazily overlooked' and 'sloppy approach' are absolutely wrong and unnecessary too:seagull:

Is it? His stats haven’t changed at all from fm 20 and players like doucoure, mctominay (who he played of the park literally 2 weeks ago) are legitimately better than him in game and have better attributes

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1 minute ago, _mxrky said:

Is it? His stats haven’t changed at all from fm 20 and players like doucoure, mctominay (who he played of the park literally 2 weeks ago) are legitimately better than him in game and have better attributes

What I said was factually correct. 

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9 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Is it? His stats haven’t changed at all from fm 20 and players like doucoure, mctominay (who he played of the park literally 2 weeks ago) are legitimately better than him in game and have better attributes

Looking at the stats from this season Partey has done nothing that an Arsenal researcher could point to to suggest he deserves an increase, I'm sure he is going to be a great success at Arsenal and if that's the case in the short term perhaps he'll get an increase for the winter update. It's very normal however for a new player to be set by the previous researcher unless they do something significant form/stats wise before initial release. That's why I've pointed to actual stats from this season to argue for a Watkins increase. Go take a look at the stats and come back here if you find anything significant  https://www.whoscored.com/Players/238940/Show/Thomas-Partey

Edited by Rags89
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16 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

I provided facts that Lacazette was 9th fastest player for Arsenal 2 seasons ago behind Ramsey and Ozil. That’s not an opinion. That’s a fact.

16 pace and 16 acceleration is outside the realms of opinion tbh. It’s pretty absurd conclusion to make. It makes faster than being min so. For example.

I am not doubting your belief, however the accusation you made was of 'not caring' which is simply not the case. Whether he is right or wrong is a different point. 

Edited by diddydaddydoddy
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3 minutes ago, Rags89 said:

Looking at the stats from this season Partey has done nothing that an Arsenal researcher could point to to suggest he deserves an increase, I'm sure he is going to be a great success at Arsenal and if that's the case in the short term perhaps he'll get an increase for the winter update. It's very normal however for a new player to be set by the previous researcher unless they do something significant form/stats wise before initial release. That's why I've pointed to actual stats from this season to argue for a Watkins increase. Go take a look at the stats and come back here if you find anything significant  https://www.whoscored.com/Players/238940/Show/Thomas-Partey

Well I’ll just have to deal with vastly wrong stats then because of the previous researcher. I mean 13 passing and 13 technique makes me question seriously what player he was watching.

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2 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

I am not doubting your belief, however the accusation you made was of 'not caring' which is simply not the case. Whether he is right or wrong is a different point. 

Fair enough, but I just want to know how the researcher is justifying those stats. Like what evidence is he using to come to that conclusion because it is quite baffling to be honest 

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3 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Well I’ll just have to deal with vastly wrong stats then because of the previous researcher. I mean 13 passing and 13 technique makes me question seriously what player he was watching.

At least go look at the data from last season and see what evidence there is for him to get an increase in those stats. A cursory browse suggests a grand total of zero assists and a bang average passing accuracy of 83%. For context that's lower than any Arsenal midfielder in the 19/20 season. 

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23 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

I provided facts that Lacazette was 9th fastest player for Arsenal 2 seasons ago behind Ramsey and Ozil. That’s not an opinion. That’s a fact.

16 pace and 16 acceleration is outside the realms of opinion tbh. It’s pretty absurd conclusion to make. It makes faster than heung min son. For example.

Is that 9th fastest with or without the ball? 

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28 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

To tweak the same point again that I made a few posts before yours...

Partey's attributes in the main will have been set by the Atlético Madrid researcher who will have seen him play far more than the Arsenal researcher. Think he played his first game early October for Arsenal and has only played c5 times. So far too small a sample to justify making any sweeping changes. Grandiose comments such as 'lazily overlooked' and 'sloppy approach' are absolutely wrong and unnecessary too:seagull:

You think anyone (community) cared how accurate Partey's stats were set  last year when he was at Atleti? The guy is quality - I can understand of course if judgements are made about his ability based on Simeone's style of play (e.g. overlooking expansive long range passing ability when he is tasked with playing a short passing game). But there has to be a degree of common sense, the fact that Arsenal were willing to spend big money they don't really have on a guy who is obvious quality need to be taken into account (along with the fact he has done a great job doing as asked to do in a certain role for seasons).

But you're just jumping on one player - I'm actually happy to wait for Partey to get a significant bump later on. My larger concern is that Saka is worse than Reiss Nelson, how does that make sense is anyone's book? Do you think Saka has less potential than Nelson? It is clear that there has been a sloppy approach where old bad data that hasn't been challenged has not been reviewed. , and Gabriel presumably being based on some random researcher for Lille?

Edited by fredo14
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2 minutes ago, Rags89 said:

At least go look at the data from last season and see what evidence there is for him to get an increase in those stats. A cursory browse suggests a grand total of zero assists and a bang average passing accuracy of 83%. For context that's lower than any Arsenal midfielder in the 19/20 season. 

Do you have any understanding of Partey's role in his previous team? 

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I agree with the Lacazette "discussion". He is far too quick in game. When you watch Arsenal IRL you can visibly see 5-6 players are quicker then him. I actually have nothing against his 15 finishing as I do think he is good at scoring. I do concur that Stamina could be pulled down one notch. He does work hard but often he does so into the ground. I would also argue his Flair and OTB is too high, I don't really put him into that category as a constantly flair player and 17 for OTB puts him into quite a high category of players which I don't think he belongs to. 15?

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27 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

I provided facts that Lacazette was 9th fastest player for Arsenal 2 seasons ago behind Ramsey and Ozil. That’s not an opinion. That’s a fact.

16 pace and 16 acceleration is outside the realms of opinion tbh. It’s pretty absurd conclusion to make. It makes faster than heung min son. For example.

That will likely be without the ball, correct?

 

Speed with the ball is very different, but i do agree that Laca is a little overrated for speed. 

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1 minute ago, johnhughthom said:

Yes, 'some random researcher for Lille', who would have seen a lot more of him than you.

Are you aware that you're coming across like a spoiled child?

Right, you honestly do not believe that French League 1 players that play well don't get a 'League 1' penalty because of the quality of the league? The only way these players can get their attributes bumped is by either being incredibly hyped (Camavinga) or move to PSG or abroad. It's irrelevant how often a Lille researcher sees a Lille player because there will always be this penalty applied.

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