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[Turkey] Data Issues


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Please post any data issues related to Turkey here.

As much of the data is subjective we’d ask that you respect everyone’s opinion and accept that the final decision is that of our club researchers and our heads of research.          

We also request you please adhere to the following three point plan when posting in the data topics:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                         

Please note that any non-data issues for Turkey should be posted in the appropriate thread within the League Specific Issues forum. This would include issues such as league scheduling, league table sorting rules and match rules.

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Ömer Beyaz of Fenerbahçe set as Frt (Leaving of a free transfer).

I do not see a clear indication of him leaving. Club officials also stated that the talks regarding the player's contract are still ongoing. The future of the player in the club is still unclear but looks like FM21 has decided that for all of us.

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2 hours ago, glosoli said:

Ömer Beyaz of Fenerbahçe set as Frt (Leaving of a free transfer).

I do not see a clear indication of him leaving. Club officials also stated that the talks regarding the player's contract are still ongoing. The future of the player in the club is still unclear but looks like FM21 has decided that for all of us.

A change has been made for this already, just didn't make it into the beta.

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Metehan Altuntaş transfered LASK LINZ but he is a still Eskişehirspor player at the game.

Fahrettin Sayhan Eskişehirspors Manager but Real manager İlhan Var is a Coach... 

Finally, there is a difference between the salaries of Fenerbahçe players and their actual salaries. ( Ex; Thiam's contract )

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52 minutes ago, toygungoktas said:

At Galatasaray, Fatih Terim is Director of Football and Hakan Balta is Loan Manager. I don't think they actually hold these positions. Definitely not Fatih Terim. 

We wanted to avoid a DoF being appointed above Terim, so gave him DoF job as well as Manager (he actually does both jobs).  Going to test how this behaves in the beta and make a final decision for the final release.

As for Hakan Balta, his role isn't really clear in real life so we stuck him into a position that was open.

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11 minutes ago, Ckrmeister said:

Metehan Altuntaş transfered LASK LINZ but he is a still Eskişehirspor player at the game.

Fahrettin Sayhan Eskişehirspors Manager but Real manager İlhan Var is a Coach... 

Finally, there is a difference between the salaries of Fenerbahçe players and their actual salaries. ( Ex; Thiam's contract )

1. https://www.tff.org/Default.aspx?pageID=30&kisiID=1539855

2. Good spot.

3. You'll have to be a little more specific as to what you think is wrong and why.  Note that the amounts shown in the game represent the cost of the player to the club (ie. gross wages) not the amount of net money the player pockets from the club (which is typically what is reported in the media).

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1 minute ago, ataberan said:

Hello;

Maybe there is some problem about substitions? Some games i can make 5 subs but after around 70th minutes i cant make more subs than 3. Also my assistant manager suggests substition but i cant make it too.

This would be a game issue rather than a data issue.

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1 minute ago, perpetua said:

This would be a game issue rather than a data issue.

Oh okay wrong topic than, sorry. Also Diego Perotti's wage is huge. We dont have any specific information about that but about news he has contrat about "Games he will play". I know there is no option about it at game but in case of his injuries his wage will be problem 

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1 minute ago, ataberan said:

Also Diego Perotti's wage is huge. We dont have any specific information about that but about news he has contrat about "Games he will play". I know there is no option about it at game but in case of his injuries his wage will be problem 

I'll see what we can do about that.

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Turkish clubs cannot sign players whose contract expires in six months in Turkey, but foreign clubs can sign those players. According to TFF rules, neither foreign clubs nor Turkish clubs can contact the player without the permission of the team.

 

https://www.tff.org/Resources/TFF/Documents/TALIMATLAR/Profesyonel-Futbolcularin-Statusu-ve-Transferleri-Talimati.pdf

 

"Mevcut kulübüyle sözleşmesi devam eden profesyonel bir futbolcuyla sözleşme imzalama niyetinde olan kulüp, futbolcuyla görüşmelere başlamadan önce futbolcunun sözleşmesel ilişkisi devam eden kulübünün iznini yazılı olarak almak zorundadır. Yazılı izin almaksızın görüşmelere başlayan kulüp, futbolcu, futbolcu temsilcisi ve diğer kişiler hakkında Futbol Disiplin Talimatı hükümleri uygulanır."

 

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11 hours ago, ooooo said:

Turkish clubs cannot sign players whose contract expires in six months in Turkey, but foreign clubs can sign those players. According to TFF rules, neither foreign clubs nor Turkish clubs can contact the player without the permission of the team.

 

https://www.tff.org/Resources/TFF/Documents/TALIMATLAR/Profesyonel-Futbolcularin-Statusu-ve-Transferleri-Talimati.pdf

 

"Mevcut kulübüyle sözleşmesi devam eden profesyonel bir futbolcuyla sözleşme imzalama niyetinde olan kulüp, futbolcuyla görüşmelere başlamadan önce futbolcunun sözleşmesel ilişkisi devam eden kulübünün iznini yazılı olarak almak zorundadır. Yazılı izin almaksızın görüşmelere başlayan kulüp, futbolcu, futbolcu temsilcisi ve diğer kişiler hakkında Futbol Disiplin Talimatı hükümleri uygulanır."

 

Foreign clubs are not under the jurisdiction of the Turkish FA and hence can not be penalized for violating a rule that the Turkish FA has instituted.  Cross-border transfers are subject to relevant FIFA statues.

MADDE 11 – TRANSFER ve TESCİL
(7) Uluslararası transferlerde FIFA düzenlemeleri esas alınır.

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Just now, glosoli said:

There are other managerial changes in Turkish league. I presume they all will be included in the full release, so hold on to your long-term saves.

Thank you for the quick reply, I think that will be the case as well but I still wanted to share this change

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On 11.11.2020 at 18:24, ataberan said:

Hello;

Maybe there is some problem about substitions? Some games i can make 5 subs but after around 70th minutes i cant make more subs than 3. Also my assistant manager suggests substition but i cant make it too.

You can make 5 subs but you can have 3 chances to make substitions. So, you need to make multiple substitions at one time. 5 subs on 3 stops.

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I am little confused about the new tax law. You put a flat 40% tax but I don't think that's true.

 

Before, clubs paid 15% of the wage they announced as tax. So 2 million wage had 300k tax. 2.3mil on the game. But now, clubs pay 20%, that means it's 2.4mil on the game.

 

That's where the problem starts, right now players pay 40% tax, but that's not calculated for 2.4 mil (including the tax club already gave), it's calculated from 2 mil. So player has to pay 800k tax (40% of 2 mil). But the law also states that if the clubs paid 20% "stopaj" tax, that will be written of off the player. So player will pay 400k remaining, net wage will be 1.6mil. So that's 2.4 mil gross wage, 1.6 mil net wage. That is 33% effective tax rate. Not 40%.

 

Now, in game, Novak gets 2.5 gross, 1.5 net. If you calculated Novak's net wage as 1.5 mil, and rest as the tax, gross should be 2.1mil, not 2.5m. (1.5m net means 1.8m given on the contract, 20% tax paid by the club, 300k, total of 2.1mil.)

If that's his wage before his 40% tax, that means club pay 1.8mil, he gets 1.2 mil.

 

Please fix this. If what I said is not true, please correct me so everyone knows.

Edited by Balamir
correction
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7 hours ago, Balamir said:

I am little confused about the new tax law. You put a flat 40% tax but I don't think that's true.

 

Before, clubs paid 15% of the wage they announced as tax. So 2 million wage had 300k tax. 2.3mil on the game. But now, clubs pay 20%, that means it's 2.4mil on the game.

 

That's where the problem starts, right now players pay 40% tax, but that's not calculated for 2.4 mil (including the tax club already gave), it's calculated from 2 mil. So player has to pay 800k tax (40% of 2 mil). But the law also states that if the clubs paid 20% "stopaj" tax, that will be written of off the player. So player will pay 400k remaining, net wage will be 1.6mil. So that's 2.4 mil gross wage, 1.6 mil net wage. That is 33% effective tax rate. Not 40%.

 

Now, in game, Novak gets 2.5 gross, 1.5 net. If you calculated Novak's net wage as 1.5 mil, and rest as the tax, gross should be 2.1mil, not 2.5m. (1.5m net means 1.8m given on the contract, 20% tax paid by the club, 300k, total of 2.1mil.)

If that's his wage before his 40% tax, that means club pay 1.8mil, he gets 1.2 mil.

 

Please fix this. If what I said is not true, please correct me so everyone knows.

The new tax law works as follows:
The club withholds (stopaj) %20 of the gross wage and pays it to the government.
The player has to declare income and pay %20 of the gross wage to the government.

So let's suppose a player is going to receive 1.2 million Euro net, in his pocket.

  • His gross income is going to be 1.2 million / (1 - 40%) = 2 million Euro.
  • 20% of this 2 million Euro is 400K.
  • The club withholds this amount and pays it to the government (*).
  • And pays the player 2 million - 400K = 1.6 million Euro.

The player also has to declare his income and pay taxes.

  • So the player pays 20% of 2 million Euro = 400K to the government.
  • This leaves the player with 1.6 million - 400K = 1.2 million Euro in his pocket.

If the club doesn't withhold and pay the 20% amount, the player is responsible for the entirety of the 40% tax.

(*) The club is eligible to receive this withheld amount back from the government, under the condition that it is used for amateur sports.  So the 20% isn't really paid to the government if you consider the entire sports club holding entity.  However clubs' amateur sports do not belong to the football entity (Futbol A.S.).  They belong to the sports club (Dernek).  In this game we're only concerned with the football entity (Futbol A.S.).  So money given to the sports club (Dernek) to be used for amateur sports can't be used by the football entity (Futbol A.S).  So when you're thinking of the entire sports club, the tax is the 20% that the player pays.  But for the football entity only, it's 40%.

The previous law, was only 15% withheld by the football entity. 
And just like in the new law, this amount (stopaj) was returned to the club by the government to be used for amateur sports. 
Under the previous law, the player did not have to declare income and pay taxes.

What we don't necessarily know at this point is what the clubs are declaring (or telling the media) is the wages of the player.  Is it the wage that goes into the pocket of the player free of taxes?  Or is it the amount that is paid from the club to the player on top of which the player has to pay taxes.  So going with the example above, is the amount reported in the media the 1.2 million that the player is getting in his pocket or the 1.6 million that the club pays the player?  Unfortunately clubs aren't very transparent in this regard but we should be able to decipher how they are handling it from the annual reports published in 2021.

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Transfer window date is wrong in Turkey. In other European countries it ends in 5th october but in Turkey its ending on 1st September.

 

Also there are some footballers needs updates too. like ismail çokçalış, he is still having the same profile with fm2020 attributes.

he does not have a profile to play as right back on Bursaspor squad,

Burak Kapacak's long shot ability is 5 it should be higher in my opinion too he scored some goals from long distance shots especially this year.

Yiğit Emre Çeltik from Altınordu deserves better profile too. he started to get chances in the first team this year and with this profile it's not possible. Also he selected as Guardian 60 best young next generation list of 2020 ( guardian 60 best young players list of 2020 )  and also club chairman commented about him that he has ability to play for european clubs in the future ( Chairman's comments about him )

There is another issue about some of the Austrian players  like Yusuf Demir and Ercan Kara. they are eligible for Turkish national team in reality but in game they dont have  Turkish citizenship or no eligibility for Turkish national team

Edited by GkhN99
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1 hour ago, littledragon84 said:

Or is it a case that it's only the ones who have signed full time contracts at 17 are in the game?

 

This is the reason.

There is a lot of player circulation at youth levels and many of these players will end up in the 5th,6th or 7th level of Turkish football (BAL, Super Amator, Amator) which we don't populate with players due to the extremely large number of clubs in those divisions.  We add players as soon as they sign a professional contract.

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15 hours ago, Gimi1611 said:

Osmanlispor heisst jetzt Ankaraspor

Birlik Nakliyat Düzyurtspor heisst jetzt Hekimoglu Trabzon

Polatli Bugsasspor heisst jetzt Mamak FK

Get rid of the file you are using for "real club names" and find a better one. :)  These are correct in the database that comes with the game.

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21 hours ago, GkhN99 said:

Transfer window date is wrong in Turkey. In other European countries it ends in 5th october but in Turkey its ending on 1st September.

Also there are some footballers needs updates too. like ismail çokçalış, he is still having the same profile with fm2020 attributes.

he does not have a profile to play as right back on Bursaspor squad,

Burak Kapacak's long shot ability is 5 it should be higher in my opinion too he scored some goals from long distance shots especially this year.

Yiğit Emre Çeltik from Altınordu deserves better profile too. he started to get chances in the first team this year and with this profile it's not possible. Also he selected as Guardian 60 best young next generation list of 2020 ( guardian 60 best young players list of 2020 )  and also club chairman commented about him that he has ability to play for european clubs in the future ( Chairman's comments about him )

There is another issue about some of the Austrian players  like Yusuf Demir and Ercan Kara. they are eligible for Turkish national team in reality but in game they dont have  Turkish citizenship or no eligibility for Turkish national team

1. Looking into the transfer window.  thanks!

2. Ismail Cokcalis: We made some amendments to him in the last few days.

3. Burak Kapacak: I have passed it on to researcher in charge of 1. Lig

4. Yigit Emre Celtik: I have passed it on to the researcher in charge of 1. Lig

5. I have notified the Austrian researcher about these.  Please note that players are researched by those responsible for the leagues in which they play.  So if you notice any others like this, please let it be known in the relevant thread.

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52 minutes ago, perpetua said:

This is the reason.

There is a lot of player circulation at youth levels and many of these players will end up in the 5th,6th or 7th level of Turkish football (BAL, Super Amator, Amator) which we don't populate with players due to the extremely large number of clubs in those divisions.  We add players as soon as they sign a professional contract.

No worries at all, thanks for coming back to me :-)

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1 hour ago, perpetua said:

Entfernen Sie die Datei, die Sie für "echte Clubnamen" verwenden, und finden Sie eine bessere. :) :)  Diese sind in der mit dem Spiel gelieferten Datenbank korrekt.

Tam olarak anlamadim. Nasil düzelte bilirim?

Ikinci sorum,  mac esnasinda sol üste skorboard bende Takim kisaltmasinda Galata yazio bazilarinda GS yazio. 

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11 minutes ago, Gimi1611 said:

Tam olarak anlamadim. Nasil düzelte bilirim?

Ikinci sorum,  mac esnasinda sol üste skorboard bende Takim kisaltmasinda Galata yazio bazilarinda GS yazio. 

Herhalde bir isim duzeltme yamasi indirdiniz ve oyuna bunu eklediniz.  Kullandiginiz isim duzeltme yamasi yanlis isimlerin oyunda gorunmesine neden oluyor.

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On 14.11.2020 at 16:23, perpetua said:

The new tax law works as follows:
The club withholds (stopaj) %20 of the gross wage and pays it to the government.
The player has to declare income and pay %20 of the gross wage to the government.

So let's suppose a player is going to receive 1.2 million Euro net, in his pocket.

  • His gross income is going to be 1.2 million / (1 - 40%) = 2 million Euro.
  • 20% of this 2 million Euro is 400K.
  • The club withholds this amount and pays it to the government (*).
  • And pays the player 2 million - 400K = 1.6 million Euro.

The player also has to declare his income and pay taxes.

  • So the player pays 20% of 2 million Euro = 400K to the government.
  • This leaves the player with 1.6 million - 400K = 1.2 million Euro in his pocket.

If the club doesn't withhold and pay the 20% amount, the player is responsible for the entirety of the 40% tax.

(*) The club is eligible to receive this withheld amount back from the government, under the condition that it is used for amateur sports.  So the 20% isn't really paid to the government if you consider the entire sports club holding entity.  However clubs' amateur sports do not belong to the football entity (Futbol A.S.).  They belong to the sports club (Dernek).  In this game we're only concerned with the football entity (Futbol A.S.).  So money given to the sports club (Dernek) to be used for amateur sports can't be used by the football entity (Futbol A.S).  So when you're thinking of the entire sports club, the tax is the 20% that the player pays.  But for the football entity only, it's 40%.

The previous law, was only 15% withheld by the football entity. 
And just like in the new law, this amount (stopaj) was returned to the club by the government to be used for amateur sports. 
Under the previous law, the player did not have to declare income and pay taxes.

What we don't necessarily know at this point is what the clubs are declaring (or telling the media) is the wages of the player.  Is it the wage that goes into the pocket of the player free of taxes?  Or is it the amount that is paid from the club to the player on top of which the player has to pay taxes.  So going with the example above, is the amount reported in the media the 1.2 million that the player is getting in his pocket or the 1.6 million that the club pays the player?  Unfortunately clubs aren't very transparent in this regard but we should be able to decipher how they are handling it from the annual reports published in 2021.

I think you are doing one mistake. You are calculating the gross as TOTAL, which is not how you calculated on previous games. In game, net wage announced by the club was added 15% tax, so after tax figures was the net figure clubs announced.

Clubs announce it without the stopaj, so the calculation must be done according to that. Let's take Galatasaray for example as they announce the wages. Let's see who they signed this season. Let's go with Omar Elabdellaoui

 

He gets 1.300.000 net from the club. Club will pay 20% stopaj, so gross will be 1.56 mil. He will pay 20% of the net wage he recieves (1.3mil), so 1.04mil remaning on his pocket. So, the club paid 1.56mil, the player recieved 1.04 mil net. 33.33% effective tax.

 

What you did was to took 1.3 net as the 60% of the gross so his wage become 2.16 mil instead of 1.56 mil. You assumed the clubs announced it after all the tax, which is still wrong as if the club pays 2.16 total for the player, the player has to get 1.8 from the club as net wage and after 20% tax he will pay, he will be left with 1.44mil and not 1.3 mil as he normally gets.

So for you formula, if a player will recieve 1.2 mil to his pocket, he will have to get 1.5 mil from the club, not 1.6m. because if the club pays 1.6 to him, 20% of that is 320k, and that means he gets 1.28 mil, not 1.2 mil, as he normally would. And 1.5 mil net plus stopaj makes 1.8 mil, again, 33.33% tax rate.

 

So the best way to calculate would be the calculate it as you have done before, put stopaj on top of the net wage (in this case, 1.3mil + 20% = 1.56 mil) and just make the tax rate 33.33%. And you shouldn't pay any attention to what would happen if the clubs wouldn't pay the stopaj as that would just be a mess.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Balamir
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Lige özgü sorunlara da yazmıştım ancak doğru yer burası sanırım. Hazırlık döneminden sonra gelen borçların yapılandırılmasıyla ilgili mesajda takımın karı 230m seviyelerine çıkıyor. Bu gerçekteki bankalar birliği anlaşmasına göre mi bişey mi? yoksa bi hata mı? Fenerbahçe'yi yönetiyorum.

Edited by Jag är chefen
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10 hours ago, Balamir said:

I think you are doing one mistake. You are calculating the gross as TOTAL, which is not how you calculated on previous games. In game, net wage announced by the club was added 15% tax, so after tax figures was the net figure clubs announced.

Clubs announce it without the stopaj, so the calculation must be done according to that. Let's take Galatasaray for example as they announce the wages. Let's see who they signed this season. Let's go with Omar Elabdellaoui

 

He gets 1.300.000 net from the club. Club will pay 20% stopaj, so gross will be 1.56 mil. He will pay 20% of the net wage he recieves (1.3mil), so 1.04mil remaning on his pocket. So, the club paid 1.56mil, the player recieved 1.04 mil net. 33.33% effective tax.

 

What you did was to took 1.3 net as the 60% of the gross so his wage become 2.16 mil instead of 1.56 mil. You assumed the clubs announced it after all the tax, which is still wrong as if the club pays 2.16 total for the player, the player has to get 1.8 from the club as net wage and after 20% tax he will pay, he will be left with 1.44mil and not 1.3 mil as he normally gets.

So for you formula, if a player will recieve 1.2 mil to his pocket, he will have to get 1.5 mil from the club, not 1.6m. because if the club pays 1.6 to him, 20% of that is 320k, and that means he gets 1.28 mil, not 1.2 mil, as he normally would. And 1.5 mil net plus stopaj makes 1.8 mil, again, 33.33% tax rate.

 

So the best way to calculate would be the calculate it as you have done before, put stopaj on top of the net wage (in this case, 1.3mil + 20% = 1.56 mil) and just make the tax rate 33.33%. And you shouldn't pay any attention to what would happen if the clubs wouldn't pay the stopaj as that would just be a mess.

Wait wait wait.  

Note the bolded part.  The 20% is a shortcut I used.

The actual tax schedule is as follows:

Up to 18K Turkish Lira is taxed at 15%
18K to 40K is taxed at 20%
40K to 148K is taxed at 27%
148K to 500K is taxed at 35%
500K+ is taxed at 40%

So in your example of Omar Elabdellaoui, his income is higher than 500K which means that he's obligated to pay 159,460 Turkish Lira plus his gross wage minus 500K Turkish Lira times 40%.

The 20% that the club withheld is subtracted from Omar's obligation to calculate the amount of taxes that he needs to pay.
If the club never pays this 20%, Omar is responsible for the entire 159,460 Turkish Lira plus 40% of income above 500K Turkish Lira.

So let's assume the 1.3 million Euro Omar gets is equal to 10 million Turkish Lira.
First 18K is taxed at 15% = 2,700
18K to 40K is taxed at 20% = 4,400
40K to 148K is taxed at 27% = 29,160
148K to 500K is taxed at 35% = 123,200
500K to 10 million is taxed at 40% = 3,800,000
Total: 3,959,460 Turkish Lira tax obligation (39.60% effective tax rate)
Now let's assume the club withheld the 20% of 10 million Lira = 2,000,000 Turkish Lira
That means the player has to pay 3,959,460 - 2,000,000 = 1,959,460 Turkish Lira
And this makes Omar's net income 10,000,000 - 1,959,460 = 8,040,540 Turkish Lira or 1.045 million Euro, not the 1.3 million that was announced as the net amount paid to him.

It's my impression that in order to make the amount of money spent look reasonable, clubs actually announce the amount that the player will receive net of all taxes.  Not only net of the tax withheld.

And here is an article about Omar's contract specifically, along with scanned images of his contract.

https://ajansspor.com/haber/omar-elabdellaouinin-menajerine-inanilmaz-bir-komisyon-belgelerle-387521

Quote

OMAR’A BRÜT 1 MİLYON 802 BİN EURO
Omar Elabdellaoui’nin resmî sözleşmedeki yazılı brüt ücretleri ise şu şekilde:
Birinci yıl için 1 Milyon 802 Bin Euro...
İkinci yıl için 2 Milyon 160 Bin Euro...
Üçüncü yıl için 2 Milyon 844 Bin Euro...

 

Note that the first year is of his contract is lower because taxes are paid based on the calendar year. 
So he's going to receive a half a season's salary from July to December 2020 and pay taxes on it in 2021 so his tax obligation is lower.
The second year of the contract, which will include money for a full calendar year matches with the amount we have in the game.
The third year has a large balloon payment at the end, which increases the gross amount paid to him.
If we average out the 3 years, the average gross wage is 2.268 million Euro per year.

Every club may be following a different way of reporting on wages but we won't know that until we get our hands on the financial reports next year.  Until then, I think we're probably better off keeping things as they are.  Especially since the total wages in the game are already a bit lower than what the clubs end up reporting year after year in the financial statements.

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1 hour ago, Jag är chefen said:

Lige özgü sorunlara da yazmıştım ancak doğru yer burası sanırım. Hazırlık döneminden sonra gelen borçların yapılandırılmasıyla ilgili mesajda takımın karı 230m seviyelerine çıkıyor. Bu gerçekteki bankalar birliği anlaşmasına göre mi bişey mi? yoksa bi hata mı? Fenerbahçe'yi yönetiyorum.

Hata.  Oyun ciktiginda duzelmis olur.
4 buyuklerin hepsinde ayni sorun var cunku kullandigimiz borc turu 2030'da odenecek sekilde ayarladigimiz parayi her ay odemeye calisiyor ve kulubun batacagini goren oyun sapitiyor. :)

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4 minutes ago, ufuksancili said:

Sinan Levi is not a analyst at Fenerbahçe SK. He is interpreter at Fenerbahçe SK. Also Mehmet Yozgatlı is asistant manager at first team. Mehmet Aurelio is coach https://www.fenerbahce.org/branslar/futbolatakimi/teknik-kadro#fikstur

My AR disagrees with you about Sinan Levi.

Mehmet Yozgatli and Aurelio are both set up as Assistants but the game seems to be having some trouble with multiple assistant managers, which is more of a coding issue than a data issue.

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25 minutes ago, perpetua said:

My AR disagrees with you about Sinan Levi.

Mehmet Yozgatli and Aurelio are both set up as Assistants but the game seems to be having some trouble with multiple assistant managers, which is more of a coding issue than a data issue.

I don't know what AR means but he is interpreter as you can see. How do you consider him as an analyst ? 

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2 minutes ago, ufuksancili said:

I don't know what AR means but he is interpreter as you can see. How do you consider him as an analyst ? 

AR means Assistant Researcher.
He actually works for Fenerbahce so I'm kind of inclined to believe him. :)

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On 16.11.2020 at 21:17, perpetua said:

Wait wait wait.  

Note the bolded part.  The 20% is a shortcut I used.

The actual tax schedule is as follows:

Up to 18K Turkish Lira is taxed at 15%
18K to 40K is taxed at 20%
40K to 148K is taxed at 27%
148K to 500K is taxed at 35%
500K+ is taxed at 40%

So in your example of Omar Elabdellaoui, his income is higher than 500K which means that he's obligated to pay 159,460 Turkish Lira plus his gross wage minus 500K Turkish Lira times 40%.

The 20% that the club withheld is subtracted from Omar's obligation to calculate the amount of taxes that he needs to pay.
If the club never pays this 20%, Omar is responsible for the entire 159,460 Turkish Lira plus 40% of income above 500K Turkish Lira.

So let's assume the 1.3 million Euro Omar gets is equal to 10 million Turkish Lira.
First 18K is taxed at 15% = 2,700
18K to 40K is taxed at 20% = 4,400
40K to 148K is taxed at 27% = 29,160
148K to 500K is taxed at 35% = 123,200
500K to 10 million is taxed at 40% = 3,800,000
Total: 3,959,460 Turkish Lira tax obligation (39.60% effective tax rate)
Now let's assume the club withheld the 20% of 10 million Lira = 2,000,000 Turkish Lira
That means the player has to pay 3,959,460 - 2,000,000 = 1,959,460 Turkish Lira
And this makes Omar's net income 10,000,000 - 1,959,460 = 8,040,540 Turkish Lira or 1.045 million Euro, not the 1.3 million that was announced as the net amount paid to him.

It's my impression that in order to make the amount of money spent look reasonable, clubs actually announce the amount that the player will receive net of all taxes.  Not only net of the tax withheld.

And here is an article about Omar's contract specifically, along with scanned images of his contract.

https://ajansspor.com/haber/omar-elabdellaouinin-menajerine-inanilmaz-bir-komisyon-belgelerle-387521

 

Note that the first year is of his contract is lower because taxes are paid based on the calendar year. 
So he's going to receive a half a season's salary from July to December 2020 and pay taxes on it in 2021 so his tax obligation is lower.
The second year of the contract, which will include money for a full calendar year matches with the amount we have in the game.
The third year has a large balloon payment at the end, which increases the gross amount paid to him.
If we average out the 3 years, the average gross wage is 2.268 million Euro per year.

Every club may be following a different way of reporting on wages but we won't know that until we get our hands on the financial reports next year.  Until then, I think we're probably better off keeping things as they are.  Especially since the total wages in the game are already a bit lower than what the clubs end up reporting year after year in the financial statements.

Okay, thanks for explaining but your math of 10 mil TL comes out as 33% tax too.

 

Club pays 12 mil total, player gets 8 mil net, and that's what you should put the tax as in game.

 

If omar gets 1.3 after all tax, that would put his pre tax earnings (or what clubs pay) at 1.95 mil and what he gets on the contract at 1.625 mil.

Let's take the tax as a flat 40%, his wage becomes 975k. Club pays their 20% (from 1.625 x 0.2), 325k. So his net wage becomes 1.3 mil.

If I am not missing anything, 33% effective tax.

Edited by Balamir
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hello to all guys,

 

First of all im impressed about new match engine and kinda bugless beta.. Reall good job...

 

I have couple of comments

 

* Besiktas, finance screen, there is loan interest payment but no main money for the interest, it should be. and this should be valid for all loan taken teams in Turkey. Should be revised

* TFF (turkish football association) has made an agreement with UEFA and now TFF is responsible from the clubs. So TFF has given and decide expendable limits for all the Turkish clubs (depends on many things). You can easily find these agreed limits from internet. Should be revised

* Euro-Turkish Lira exchange rate is almost 1 euro - 10 Turkish Lira so it should be revised

* Now there is quarrel between BEIN sports and TFF so they are not really paying 269 K for winning. It should be less. It should revised

* Turkish clubs AI not good, my first season chairman has tooken 100 M credit for Besiktas. There is no such resources in Turkey. It should be revised

* Turkish club managers dont make transfer too much (big teams only 1 or max 2 per season). As if im not facing to AI. It should be revised

* In Second season foreign player rules should be changed, it should be 8 max in squad or so. It is almost certain but still they didnt make last decision tough.

* Ofcourse some tactics are overpowered, this is not realted with database but it is related with Turkey maybe, so it should be tweaked, because it is making the game so "gamish" which we dont like....

 

 

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding...

 

Waiting for your good news.....

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17 minutes ago, Balamir said:

Okay, thanks for explaining but your math of 10 mil TL comes out as 33% tax too.

 

Club pays 12 mil total, player gets 8 mil net, and that's what you should put the tax as in game.

 

If omar gets 1.3 after all tax, that would put his pre tax earnings (or what clubs pay) at 1.95 mil and what he gets on the contract at 1.625 mil.

Let's take the tax as a flat 40%, his wage becomes 975k. Club pays their 20% (from 1.625 x 0.2), 325k. So his net wage becomes 1.3 mil.

If I am not missing anything, 33% effective tax.

You're under-calculating the tax because you're working off wage net of the withholding tax, not the gross wage of the player.

The government expects 40% of the gross wage as tax.  It doesn't matter if 20% of the gross wage is in the form of withholding tax.

I actually made an error above, taking 20% of 10 million as the tax withheld.  That 20% needed to be 20% of the player's gross wage, not 20% of the amount received by the player.

When we take 10 million as the gross wage, 10 million - 2 million = 8 million is how much the player receives.
10 million x 40% = 4 million is the player's tax obligation.
4 million - 2 million = 2 million is the amount still to be paid as taxes by the player
8 million received - 2 million paid is taxes = 6 million is the amount left to the player.

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40 minutes ago, ugocturk said:

hello to all guys,

 

First of all im impressed about new match engine and kinda bugless beta.. Reall good job...

 

I have couple of comments

 

* Besiktas, finance screen, there is loan interest payment but no main money for the interest, it should be. and this should be valid for all loan taken teams in Turkey. Should be revised

* TFF (turkish football association) has made an agreement with UEFA and now TFF is responsible from the clubs. So TFF has given and decide expendable limits for all the Turkish clubs (depends on many things). You can easily find these agreed limits from internet. Should be revised

* Euro-Turkish Lira exchange rate is almost 1 euro - 10 Turkish Lira so it should be revised

* Now there is quarrel between BEIN sports and TFF so they are not really paying 269 K for winning. It should be less. It should revised

* Turkish clubs AI not good, my first season chairman has tooken 100 M credit for Besiktas. There is no such resources in Turkey. It should be revised

* Turkish club managers dont make transfer too much (big teams only 1 or max 2 per season). As if im not facing to AI. It should be revised

* In Second season foreign player rules should be changed, it should be 8 max in squad or so. It is almost certain but still they didnt make last decision tough.

* Ofcourse some tactics are overpowered, this is not realted with database but it is related with Turkey maybe, so it should be tweaked, because it is making the game so "gamish" which we dont like....

 

 

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding...

 

Waiting for your good news.....

The details regarding data issues are known and should hopefully be fixed for the final release.
The foreign player limits have been announced, then delayed for one season.  As of how things stand, they will be used next year. 
Having it like this also gives a good opportunity for those rules to be tested out by policy makers using this simulation. ;)
The details regarding gameplay should really be reported in separate threads in relevant areas of the beta forums (regarding AI, tactics etc.).

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1- Mert Müldür plays for Austria in my game, but he capped many times Turkey International.
2-Yusuf Barasi and Halil Dervisoglu plays for Turkish U-21, but in game Netherlands u-21
3-Turkish Registration has also problem. 3rd year, foreign rules dec. 12 and must play 1 u-21 player in starting lineup. Turkish Federation declared the plan but give up the plan after negative responses
 

Pls fix them. Ty

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