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Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features


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6 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Hopefully, that's all they're ironing out at this stage & the game's in good knick 

Yeah, that's the hope, just found it ironic in a post lauding "attention to detail" :onmehead:

They've got my money, and I'm hyped anyway

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10 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

Yeah, that's the hope, just found it ironic in a post lauding "attention to detail" :onmehead:

They've got my money, and I'm hyped anyway

Same buddy, sat there in Steam ready to download, working from home again Thursday for a month, no pub, no going anywhere so perfect time :D 

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19 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Same buddy, sat there in Steam ready to download, working from home again Thursday for a month, no pub, no going anywhere so perfect time :D 

Here is the same. ;)

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The ME Blog was brilliant, it really adressed a lot of the issues. If all it said works as intended, this could be a really awesome edition of FM. But I can't get excited to the max until I see it in action. I hope it's as good as it sounded in the blog and if it is, we're in for a treat. I hope the AI has seen some improvements as well and can give you a bit of a challenge. I think If we get a fun ME and a strong, challenging AI the game will be a massive success across the board, so fingers crossed. 

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On 15/10/2020 at 18:15, Lexis said:

- Speech mentality (aggresive ,passionate, etc) switched to the new terms. Some new dialog options written for them. Probably the same mechanics as before, once you figure out the best reactions you just go with that 95% of time.

- Backroom advice presented under another GUI.

- Useless Twitter reactions after matches that no one really cares about.

- Scouting requirements presented under different names.

- Different celebration at end of the season.

It is beyond me how these are presented as the main features of a new installment while asking for full retail price.

At least match engine looks better

"FM21's new additions and game upgrades put all of the focus on you, delivering new levels of depths and drama through improvements to these key areas:"

To call this an overstatement would be putting it mildly, given these all are areas no one cares about and people just click through once they found what works and what doesn't.

 

Ok firstly I get these aren’t groundbreaking features like the Dev Centre was, or the introduction of 3D, or the revamp to training... all features in recent(ish) years

However a game like Fifa rattles out literally the same game year in year out. Maybe adding a new league once in a while, or a street football mini game, but the core game never changes... in fact it often gets worse.

Im not assuming you or others buy/play Fifa, but put it in some context. You’re getting the latest instalment of the most realistic Football Management game ever made for about £33... compared to over £60 for the latest Fifa. 
 

This game has been developed over the past 25 years and is the most detailed and through game series I’ve ever player. Millions of actions are taking place in tandem every second to create the immersion that this game brings.

Also, you say it’s beyond you that they are asking for full retail price... is 10% off on Steam :p


Bottom line, if you’re not happy paying £33 for it, don’t.

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2 hours ago, BrightLad5 said:

However a game like Fifa rattles out literally the same game year in year out. Maybe adding a new league once in a while, or a street football mini game, but the core game never changes... in fact it often gets worse.

Fifa is also heavily criticized for that, especially Fifa21, so it's not like Fifa gets a pass, so I'm not sure what you are arguing here. People can be unhappy with the progress of both games.

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3 hours ago, goranm said:

Fifa is also heavily criticized for that, especially Fifa21, so it's not like Fifa gets a pass, so I'm not sure what you are arguing here. People can be unhappy with the progress of both games.

It's actually kinda shocking how downhill Fifa has gone since 2012.

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8 hours ago, goranm said:

Fifa is also heavily criticized for that, especially Fifa21, so it's not like Fifa gets a pass, so I'm not sure what you are arguing here. People can be unhappy with the progress of both games.

I was using it to apply context, I know Fifa doesn't get a free pass and people are very vocal about issues with that game too.

My argument was that it is double, even triple the price of FM, whilst at the same time it adds new features at a much slower rate than FM does. Compare Fifa 17 to Fifa 21... then compare FM17 to the upcoming FM21... I'm sure there would be a lot more noticeable changes with FM than Fifa but I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

Anyway its irrelevant what Fifa are doing, I was just using it for context like I said. If people aren't happy with the prospects of fewer headline new features (baring in mind that 4 months after the release of FM20 the world was in lockdown for several months) then they should continue playing a previous version of FM that they enjoy. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy something they don't like the look of.

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1 minute ago, BrightLad5 said:

I was using it to apply context, I know Fifa doesn't get a free pass and people are very vocal about issues with that game too.

My argument was that it is double, even triple the price of FM, whilst at the same time it adds new features at a much slower rate than FM does. Compare Fifa 17 to Fifa 21... then compare FM17 to the upcoming FM21... I'm sure there would be a lot more noticeable changes with FM than Fifa but I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

Anyway its irrelevant what Fifa are doing, I was just using it for context like I said. If people aren't happy with the prospects of fewer headline new features (baring in mind that 4 months after the release of FM20 the world was in lockdown for several months) then they should continue playing a previous version of FM that they enjoy. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy something they don't like the look of.

Not to mention that SI lets you demo their game with full proper engine for 6 months while EA cancelled FIFA demo for this year and it was not released.

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3 hours ago, oblongata21 said:

Stadiums look exactly the same, i was hoping that would be changed this year. Not a huge deal, but variety would be nice

 

Yeah it would be nice to see some variation, particularly for lower league teams. Some of these clubs just have a bit of string around the edge of the pitch IRL! :lol:

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2 minutes ago, rosque said:

Not to mention that SI lets you demo their game with full proper engine for 6 months while EA cancelled FIFA demo for this year and it was not released.

Remember pre-beta releases when it was just a demo, followed by the full game release a few weeks later?

In its infancy you couldn't carry on after that 6 months! :stop: The game has come a long long way over the past decade or so

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My problem with FIFA, FM and Pes is always the same. These games have a gameplay loop that always makes it worth for most people. You pay like 60$ at max and get 100+ hours of gameplay. Most people would argue it's good value. It's just the lack of innovation compared to previous years. Standalone, ignoring previous releases the games are completely fine. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

You pay like 60$ at max and get 100+ hours of gameplay. Most people would argue it's good value.

 

I worked out I paid about £0.02 per hour for FM20, over 1400 hours this installment... talk of good value! :onmehead:

Lockdown was a big part of that mind... I have done those sorts of numbers since my University days on FM10

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19 hours ago, BrightLad5 said:

Ok firstly I get these aren’t groundbreaking features like the Dev Centre was, or the introduction of 3D, or the revamp to training... all features in recent(ish) years

However a game like Fifa rattles out literally the same game year in year out. Maybe adding a new league once in a while, or a street football mini game, but the core game never changes... in fact it often gets worse.

Im not assuming you or others buy/play Fifa, but put it in some context. You’re getting the latest instalment of the most realistic Football Management game ever made for about £33... compared to over £60 for the latest Fifa. 
 

This game has been developed over the past 25 years and is the most detailed and through game series I’ve ever player. Millions of actions are taking place in tandem every second to create the immersion that this game brings.

Also, you say it’s beyond you that they are asking for full retail price... is 10% off on Steam :p


Bottom line, if you’re not happy paying £33 for it, don’t.

Hello @BrightLad5

Comparing with FIFA is out of place in my opinion. Be that as it may, they churned out a decent amount of features this year. Improvements in pro clubs, volta multi, co op UT, etc. I am by no means pleased with EA and FIFA in general, especially regarding their career mode. They ARE getting criticism their way quite often, both FIFA and EA in general, so I don't think they are a good example.

FIFA is an AAA title, FM is not. Why the price comparision?

The game has been developed over the past 25 years I agree. It is the most detailed game in the genre, I agree. But that doesn't say a lot. The genre is heavily dominated by SI with no real competition. Yes, that also means kudos to them but that also means you have no other benchmark or competition to really measure against. It's a monopoly. I would sincerely doubt we are talking about millions of actions every second, most certainly not in the match engine. And "millions of actions per second" doesn't have any real value to it. There are probably dozens / hundreds of games that likely pull more calculations per second. Why are we measuring calculations per second instead of actual quality / output of those calculations? 

The "if you're not happy don't buy it" is getting really old at this point. Should we all sing songs of glory and praise and never criticize if we feel things aren't going in the right direction?

While I criticized SI in the beginning of the thread for their lackluster set of features their year, I also praised them for the changes they are announcing to the ME which will be a game changer provided it won't be buggy. Yes, we should criticize and offer feedback for things that don't work as intended. Yes, we should also give them credit where it's due.

You've mentioned above some of the features that (possibly) set a bar in the past few years.

 

The suggestions forum is filled with threads enumerating things that really should get some attention eg:

- International Management

- Stamina / Conditioning System

- Gegenpressing Issues.

- AI Long Term Squad Development

- Set Pieces

- Training systems being more meaningful

 

And this doesn't even begin to get into real complex issues eg revamping the CA/PA system, etc. The above I mentioned, I THINK [ I have no metric for this ] the community considers much more important than reskinning press conferences which anyone clicks what works anyway with no real regards of anything else.

Again, don't take this the wrong way. I think we all want what's best for the game. Yes, I will likely buy it myself at some point. Earlier if general feedback regarding the ME is good, if else winter. I bought FM20 as well, despite being massively disappointed with it and didn't enjoy it anywhere near what I did older versions or for the same amount of time (due to ME). I still support SI and will support them for the time being but that doesn't mean I won't expect them to up their standards.

 

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20 minutes ago, Lexis said:

Hello @BrightLad5

Comparing with FIFA is out of place in my opinion. Be that as it may, they churned out a decent amount of features this year. Improvements in pro clubs, volta multi, co op UT, etc. I am by no means pleased with EA and FIFA in general, especially regarding their career mode. They ARE getting criticism their way quite often, both FIFA and EA in general, so I don't think they are a good example.

FIFA is an AAA title, FM is not. Why the price comparision?

The game has been developed over the past 25 years I agree. It is the most detailed game in the genre, I agree. But that doesn't say a lot. The genre is heavily dominated by SI with no real competition. Yes, that also means kudos to them but that also means you have no other benchmark or competition to really measure against. It's a monopoly. I would sincerely doubt we are talking about millions of actions every second, most certainly not in the match engine. And "millions of actions per second" doesn't have any real value to it. There are probably dozens / hundreds of games that likely pull more calculations per second. Why are we measuring calculations per second instead of actual quality / output of those calculations? 

The "if you're not happy don't buy it" is getting really old at this point. Should we all sing songs of glory and praise and never criticize if we feel things aren't going in the right direction?

While I criticized SI in the beginning of the thread for their lackluster set of features their year, I also praised them for the changes they are announcing to the ME which will be a game changer provided it won't be buggy. Yes, we should criticize and offer feedback for things that don't work as intended. Yes, we should also give them credit where it's due.

You've mentioned above some of the features that (possibly) set a bar in the past few years.

 

The suggestions forum is filled with threads enumerating things that really should get some attention eg:

- International Management

- Stamina / Conditioning System

- Gegenpressing Issues.

- AI Long Term Squad Development

- Set Pieces

- Training systems being more meaningful

 

And this doesn't even begin to get into real complex issues eg revamping the CA/PA system, etc. The above I mentioned, I THINK [ I have no metric for this ] the community considers much more important than reskinning press conferences which anyone clicks what works anyway with no real regards of anything else.

Again, don't take this the wrong way. I think we all want what's best for the game. Yes, I will likely buy it myself at some point. Earlier if general feedback regarding the ME is good, if else winter. I bought FM20 as well, despite being massively disappointed with it and didn't enjoy it anywhere near what I did older versions or for the same amount of time (due to ME). I still support SI and will support them for the time being but that doesn't mean I won't expect them to up their standards.

 

Hi there

I appreciate your argument, I do. I’d love nothing more than some amazing new improvements to the areas you mentioned. One of my ongoing suggestions is to have 3D visual set piece training where you can see youre first team practising corners etc vs the reserves. I’d love this, and I’m sure there’s loads more.

I also completely agree that constructive criticism is good, vital even. I’ll be honest, I didn’t look through the whole thread for any more posts from you regarding the ME or other things so I appreciate you’re not just closed off to everything.

I feel that Fifa being a AAA title and FM not being should warrant Fifa getting more criticism if anything! 
 

When referencing the calculations I was just trying to say how much detail this game has, considering it isn’t a AAA. It can’t be overstated enough how much goes into any one save. I suppose I was also empathising with SI in a way. It’s been a tough year for everyone and I’m just excited to actually have a game to play. 
 

I know FM20 was far from perfect but I actually did really enjoy playing it. Also I meant no offence by the “don’t buy it” comment. 
 

The ME changes could be the biggest new “feature” in recent years if everything in the blog is accurate but we’ll see. 
 

Best of luck if you do get the new one pal! :thup:

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4 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

Hi there

I appreciate your argument, I do. I’d love nothing more than some amazing new improvements to the areas you mentioned. One of my ongoing suggestions is to have 3D visual set piece training where you can see youre first team practising corners etc vs the reserves. I’d love this, and I’m sure there’s loads more.

I also completely agree that constructive criticism is good, vital even. I’ll be honest, I didn’t look through the whole thread for any more posts from you regarding the ME or other things so I appreciate you’re not just closed off to everything.

I feel that Fifa being a AAA title and FM not being should warrant Fifa getting more criticism if anything! 
 

When referencing the calculations I was just trying to say how much detail this game has, considering it isn’t a AAA. It can’t be overstated enough how much goes into any one save. I suppose I was also empathising with SI in a way. It’s been a tough year for everyone and I’m just excited to actually have a game to play. 
 

I know FM20 was far from perfect but I actually did really enjoy playing it. Also I meant no offence by the “don’t buy it” comment. 
 

The ME changes could be the biggest new “feature” in recent years if everything in the blog is accurate but we’ll see. 
 

Best of luck if you do get the new one pal! :thup:

The ME, in my honest opinion is a make it or break it type of feature. Get it right and it makes for a good version at least, offsetting even lackluster features elsewhere, get it wrong and all hell breaks loose.

It's also true that outside of the ME, FM has reached some sort of maturity with most systems having reached a decent state at the very least.

I am also very curious why they are not opening the game up to modders completely. I am positive a lot of people from the community would help mod the ME to reach better outcomes, modify stat weights, etc. It's definitely something to tap into. Not saying make it open source, just open it up a little bit more to the modding community. There's a lot of good work already happening with just a JSON file opened for editing. Look at what they did with Skyrim. The community fixed stuff way beyond what the dev team could do themselves, not to mention revamped / new content.

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15 minutes ago, Lexis said:

The ME, in my honest opinion is a make it or break it type of feature. Get it right and it makes for a good version at least, offsetting even lackluster features elsewhere, get it wrong and all hell breaks loose.

It's also true that outside of the ME, FM has reached some sort of maturity with most systems having reached a decent state at the very least.

I am also very curious why they are not opening the game up to modders completely. I am positive a lot of people from the community would help mod the ME to reach better outcomes, modify stat weights, etc. It's definitely something to tap into. Not saying make it open source, just open it up a little bit more to the modding community. There's a lot of good work already happening with just a JSON file opened for editing. Look at what they did with Skyrim. The community fixed stuff way beyond what the dev team could do themselves, not to mention revamped / new content.

I’ve never really thought much about modding. I do know that if a game like PUBG had opened itself to modders it would still be as big in the BR genre.

The vibes they (FM) give is that opening to modding isn’t in the pipeline though

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Just now, saihtam said:

Recommend to sing up for FMFC, some good blog post up today

Yup, just saw it. Fantastic news. I'm curious if also now low stamina in the match has a more pronounced effect. Some good stuff in there really.

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1 minute ago, Lexis said:

Yup, just saw it. Fantastic news. I'm curious if also now low stamina in the match has a more pronounced effect. Some good stuff in there really.

Hope or maybe idea for future for Match Condition would be that reading that is affected by facilitates. With better coaches and facilities the overview of player condition is a bit better and less room for error.

Just an idea. But love the info I am seeing, mostly in collaboration with ME.

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Seems like SI covered most of all the complaints that was made in this thread aside from any drastic graphically improvements.

 

At this point, fixing MLS and International management  would put me over the moon.

 

i think it’s safe to say that pressing all game isn’t going to be OP this year...

 

Stripping it back, Condition drains by taking into account the following things: distance covered, speed of movement, change of direction, weather and pitch conditions, tackles, jumps and many more variables. Of course, a player’s attributes also come into play here, most notably Stamina.”

Nice...

“This year we’ve been able to add much more separation to the type of runs that a player makes and how they affect their Condition – more definition to Distance Covered and player speed. Sprinting hard in a race to a loose ball will have much more impact on a player’s Condition than other, less tiring, actions for example. A player who makes a high number of sprints will drain quicker than a player who calmly jogs a larger distance.

This all has a big impact on playing a system with a high press. Tactics with a high Intensity rating require your team to cover a lot of ground in a concentrated period, in FM21 the match engine is now able to more accurately calculate exactly how this affects each player.”

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Remember all those people telling SI to skip a year because FM21 was only a reskin????  Repent and bow to our SI overlords!

Joking aside, the feature blogs after the first one mention improvements in all the areas of the game most people wanted to see improvements in, especially the match engine one. SI is just too awesome.

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20 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

“Part of the weather variables that FM21 analyses in player Stamina now is altitude, so you’ll be able to see the effect playing in tricky circumstances has on your squad, most notably in South American leagues”

 

 

someone asked about this weeks ago.

 

Altitude, finally. Shame that the Bolivian league isn’t included as standard! Although I sure hope to see their National team winning their fair share of home games.

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14 minutes ago, kidd_05_u2 said:

Remember all those people telling SI to skip a year because FM21 was only a reskin????  Repent and bow to our SI overlords!

Joking aside, the feature blogs after the first one mention improvements in all the areas of the game most people wanted to see improvements in, especially the match engine one. SI is just too awesome.

Haha, I'm not going to bow to the overlords, but I might just preorder the game if they keep this up :) . Seems like they kept the good stuff from us for a while.

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The new blogs are really intriguing. I feel it will like we’re getting even more data than before but it will feel less cluttered. Only a good thing.

I’m just going to sit in front of my laptop refreshing steam now I think... :lol:

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Quote

This all has a big impact on playing a system with a high press. Tactics with a high Intensity rating require your team to cover a lot of ground in a concentrated period, in FM21 the match engine is now able to more accurately calculate exactly how this affects each player.

This is beautiful.  Users that unrealistically abuse high press tactics should face the consequences of using it. 

Use high press only if you have enough players for rotation, reducing intensity of training, good stamina and a schedule that is not too demanding etc.

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Sounds promising as regards match engine changes but a word of warning you can change as much as you like about central play and decision making, but if the whole reputation system means EVERY SINGLE team parks the bus when playing a top side the whole thing will fall apart again.  SI have to realise that every team in an entire league dosn't remotely play like that its not remotely accurate to real life teams do not park the bus for 89mins then go all out attack for 1 + stoppage time.  

If the reputation system has not changed and when playing as an elite team means you face every single team on defensive or cautious for 89 mins and the high rep team has 35 shots vs the park the bus team scoring at a 25% rate because they are boosted by the "underdog algorithm" it will all still be artifitial and pointless.

Please SI give us real competative football don't bork the ME because of the reputation system so we get another version of attack versus defense which ends up being the third FM in a row that essestially becomes the - Tony Pulis Set Piece and crossing simulator 

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13 hours ago, rosque said:

Not to mention that SI lets you demo their game with full proper engine for 6 months while EA cancelled FIFA demo for this year and it was not released.

While FIFA/EA also make every game mode unplayable unless you sink money into Ultimate Team...

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The changes to condition, match ratings, match sharpness is enough for me to upgrade this year. One of my favourite new features is the added depth in what affects condition e.g. the type of runs and weather etc.

My other favourite feature is the Match Rating for Role Positions especially goalkeepers.. I love the fact that goalkeepers match ratings are fixed and that each player role have their own metrics for their overall match rating.

The only thing I am waiting for is news on A.I and how it has been improved.

  • Do A.I Managers take more tactical risk against stronger teams? (e.g. play more attacking)
  • Do A.I Managers rotate their team better? 
  • Do A.I Teams try to improve their staff ? (buy loan managers, replace coaches to better ones)

If not then this game will suffer and all realism will be out the window as league tables, matches will be unrealistic if A.I are not putting in the effort

Edited by kingking
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They changed the ratings system oh my god...finally!!!!

 

Citation

It’s not an exaggeration to say that Match Ratings have been completely rewritten and redefined. Thanks to a combination of brand new statistics and better tracking of our existing stats we’ve been able to redefine the functionality and process of Ratings behind the scenes.

We felt that FM21 was the perfect time to refresh the Player Rating system to coincide with the new, modernised Matchday UI and flow as well as the Analysis and Statistics Revamp which sees xG finally debut in Football Manager.

To do that we’ve completely changed the algorithm behind our match ratings with new definitions for everything within the code. Definitions that we’ve created ourselves, within the studio, statistic by statistic.

Even something as simple as Possession has been refreshed within our own definitions, to ensure that our matchday code, stats, and ratings, all reflect the 90 minutes as precisely as possible.

ROLE BY ROLE

In FM, each position has specific statistics that hold more weight depending on its responsibility. A Central Defender winning 9/10 aerial duels holds more weight in his Match Rating than a Winger, for example. But in FM21, we’ve gone one better.

Post-game match ratings

Not only do Match Ratings take on board position but roles too, thanks to changes in match statistics and the rating algorithm.

This will be most noticeable in the review of midfielders who can take on a number of different roles with different responsibilities. In FM21 the Player Rating system will judge a Ball-Winning Midfielder differently to an Advanced Playmaker, for example, allowing you to see exactly how your players are fairing across the season.

WOW

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33 minutes ago, kingking said:

The changes to condition, match ratings, match sharpness is enough for me to upgrade this year. One of my favourite new features is the added depth in what affects condition e.g. the type of runs and weather etc.

My other favourite feature is the Match Rating for Role Positions especially goalkeepers.. I love the fact that goalkeepers match ratings are fixed and that each player role have their own metrics for their overall match rating.

The only thing I am waiting for is news on A.I and how it has been improved.

  • Do A.I Managers take more tactical risk against stronger teams? (e.g. play more attacking)
  • Do A.I Managers rotate their team better? 
  • Do A.I Teams try to improve their staff ? (buy loan managers, replace coaches to better ones)

If not then this game will suffer and all realism will be out the window as league tables, matches will be unrealistic if A.I are not putting in the effort

Hopefully during beta we’ll have some people that will test these specific things and give feedback. I’m not sure a lot of people get so far into a save where they start to notice some of these problems and if they do, the new game is problem around the corner...

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