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Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features


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33 minutes ago, Smurf said:
  1. I don't mind the positioning/decision making in the 3D match engine, I barely notice it. And it's fine for me.
  2. I'm sure adding VAR was not easy, and I'm sure tweaking the rules around the game for new laws etc has ramifications in the programming world. 

 

YES i am 100% we all want better AI  but keeping a 2003 proccesor is not a long term good idea  that why you striker try to score in a impossible angle instead of giving the to a free player , that why player in FM struggle to score in a 2 vs 1 ( 2 player vs a GK ) that why there is no tricks to past player , that why sometime player give the ball back to oppositions(glitch) because the AI dont have to surpasse minimum requierement 

VAR In FM20 :

  1. To check a offside goal ( if the goal is offside the animation start and the goal is 100% at any time refused ) 
  2. to Check is the fault was on the box or not ( if the fault was outside = no pen , inside =Pen )
  3. to check is there is a penalty ( 100% )

 

Edited by destmez
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13 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

I don't think that's correct. When it was removed, there was tons and tons of posts complaining about it. We had two 2D options back then and I'm pretty sure 2D Classic was far from "barely used".

If I remember correctly, SI removed it because it wasn't compatible with the new 3D graphics engine they switched to. Back then they said it gives them a huge room for improvement going forward, so naturally people understood the first year wasn't going to be perfect, but here we are now. Two or the iterations later, graphics seem to be even regressing. And frankly, it's getting pretty tiresome, as responses in this thread show.

We actually had Miles say upwards of 90% used the 3D engine at the time

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1 hour ago, Marko1989 said:

Absolutelly false. Everybody wants better graphics. And whoever say that they would not like FM to look better is lying.

It is Just some people don't want the game to became more demanding. 

I honestly don't care how the game looks.  It isn't important to me.

Try not to let that blow your mind.

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1 minute ago, destmez said:

but you care of having a Better AI ?

Not sure how that's relevant to me replying to the point of "everyone wants better graphics and if they say they don't, they're a liar".

If I'm completely honest, the match engine - presentation or calculation side - don't really come high up on my own list of wants and needs.  The way I play the game, it's very much a case of "if the game gets to the right answer, I don't care much about the working".  Would it be nice if the match was prettier, and when the engine needs to make it 1-0, the play looked a little more like real life?  Yeah.  But I'd far rather they breathed more life into pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE.  The game has gotten stale, po-faced, and lacks any kind of life or imagination that you don't put in yourself.  It's not about the matches for me, it's about the entire package.

Put it this way, if I was given a choice between them ONLY touching up the ME, or not touching it at all, leaving it as it was in 20, and going after the wider picture like I mentioned above, I'd choose the latter every time.  

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9 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Put it this way, if I was given a choice between them ONLY touching up the ME, or not touching it at all, leaving it as it was in 20, and going after the wider picture like I mentioned above, I'd choose the latter every time.  

It should be possible to do both in 2020. I'm on the other side of this, wanting them to only touch the ME and leave the rest, if that is what it would take. From reading all post here, it seems like people are very split about what should actually be changed or not.

This forum is in the minority of people playing. Most are silent, or on some small national forum. I can't really tell what the majority actually wants. Proberbly a mix of it all. Better AI, better UI, better graphics ... I mean, at this point, if FM21 feels like an upgrade in any aspect, I'll take it, but I do worry it wont (to me.) Time will tell. 

Edited by Rullom
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4 minutes ago, Rullom said:

It should be possible to do both in 2020. I'm on the other side of this, wanting them to only touch the ME and leave the rest, if that is what it would take. From reading all post here, it seems like people are very split about what should actually be changed or not.

This forum is in the minority of people playing. Most are silent, or on some small national forum. I can't really tell what the majority actually wants. Proberbly a mix of it all. Better AI, better UI, better graphics ... I mean, at this point, if FM21 feels like an upgrade in any aspect, I'll take it, but I do worry that wont. Time will tell. 

https://community.sigames.com/topic/528100-fm-vs-realism/ 

What do you think Football manager game is missing the most when compared to real football? 3 choices.

  1. Player movement.
  2. Animations showing individual skill differences between players.
  3. Atmosphere.
Edited by destmez
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5 hours ago, Cal585 said:

If I remember the fuss a few years back, wasn't that a completely separate 2D graphics engine that they discontinued because they were finding it tricky to maintain 2 versions of it? So they won't bring it back. But it would be good if they could spruce up the existing 2D one that does indeed look a bit drab.

Edit: Apparently FM18 changed from primarily 2D converted to 3D to being mostly 3D with a 2D skin. So they had to scrap the nice looking 2D view for the sake of progressing the rest of the game.

Reference as to why it was done: 

 

I don't get it. They state they removed the 2D Classic view because it only took advantage of the CPU, but how come we ended up with a 2D view that looks even worse? If it is supposed to be taking advantage of the GPU then surely it can get a bit more detailed? Also, there used to be two 2D views. Did they remove one and downgraded the other?

2D Classic view:

 image.png

2D view that should still be in the game:

 image.png

Edited by orlyzao
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2 minutes ago, Rullom said:

I feel like the options I would like to push, is not there. :D

And again, this only represent people on this forum.

 

Even if the mods or the SI team made this same kind of post it would not be representative , players in forum dont represente players who are not in the forum ! 

Edited by destmez
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Looking forward to some of the new features. I’m a big fan of the media and interaction on the game and actually feeling like you have a relationship with the players and they’re not just bots on the field. I want to feel in charge. 

I think the issue with previous versions was that you knew exactly which interaction worked and you’d always just select that one. Hopefully this will open up a bit more. 

Excited to see what else will be announced in the next couple of weeks. 
 

 

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I think they must put their money and resources into scouting the players for the database and ignore the ME. I can’t believe it just doesn’t improve over the years and as some have said on here, graphics wise has gotten worse.  Somebody or something at SI is holding them back. Like someone wants it to look purposely dated for their own nostalgias sake or something. Definitely needs bringing up to date in the match day graphics department. Not even up to date - even if they brought it up to the year 2000 it would be an improvement!! I mean, even a cheap footy game played on a cheap phone has better graphics then this. It just looks dreary. Awful shades of green. No vibrancy to it at all. And if I see another pub picnic bench.... 🤬🤬🤬

 

Off the pitch I thought FM20 was excellent but then it comes to match day and it’s a chore to watch. Still, nothing will get said or done about it and we’ll all buy it anyway and be here again saying similar things next year.

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Uhh remember when I did this post, glad a bit more people are raising their voices. Hope to see some evolution coming as we went over to 64bit exe, but not so sure about this year.

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14 minutes ago, Nathozz said:

Looking forward to some of the new features. I’m a big fan of the media and interaction on the game and actually feeling like you have a relationship with the players and they’re not just bots on the field. I want to feel in charge. 

I think the issue with previous versions was that you knew exactly which interaction worked and you’d always just select that one. Hopefully this will open up a bit more. 

Excited to see what else will be announced in the next couple of weeks. 
 

 

More coming out tomorrow. 

I think your point also ties into AI, so will be interesting to see what has gone into that this year as well. Better interaction won't just come from better context and choices, but the reactions as well, and that means better AI

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  1. Player movement.
  2. Animations showing individual skill differences between players. 
  3. Atmosphere.

currently the game does not have:

1 different way of running with and without the ball , directional touch ,

no system of contact , there is not center of gravity , 

no physical language when players are tired

there is not center of gravity

Differant skills and tricks , which is a big problem because dribbling is important in this sport !

Atmosphere

(plastic fan 2d ),supporters , fans , in stadiums not in 3D , no fumigène no tifo , 

lack of collection asset for stadium , irrealistic stadium , there is nothing differant between small match and big ,

cartoon textures , repetive generic stadium , no cutscene , no Intro 

I dont thinks we will have this in the game one day because a i dont thinks a 2003 Proccessor can Handle it ( These are the Football Manager 2021 system requirements (minimumCPU:AMD Athlon 64 FX-51. 

but outiside Me i can expect new features 😃

Edited by destmez
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5 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Uhh remember when I did this post, glad a bit more people are raising their voices. Hope to see some evolution coming as we went over to 64bit exe, but not so sure about this year.

What is the minimum Direct X for FM21 ? 

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1 minute ago, destmez said:

What is the minimum Direct X for FM21 ? 

FM21 Windows System Requirements

Minimum:

    • Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
    • OS: Windows 7 (SP1), 8/8.1, 10 (Update 1903/May 2019 or later) – 64-bit
    • Processor: Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 – 1.8 GHz +
    • Memory: 4 GB RAM
    • Graphics: Intel GMA X4500, NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT or AMD/ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 – 256MB VRAM
    • DirectX: Version 11
    • Storage: 7 GB available space

Recommended:

    • Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
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2 minutos atrás, destmez disse:
  1. Player movement.
  2. Animations showing individual skill differences between players. 
  3. Atmosphere.

currently the game does not have:

1 different way of running with and without the ball , directional touch ,

no system of contact , there is not center of gravity , 

no physical language when players are tired

there is not center of gravity

Differant skills and tricks , which is a big problem because dribbling is important in this sport !

Atmosphere

(plastic fan 2d ),supporters , fans , in stadiums not in 3D , no fumigène no tifo , 

lack of collection asset for stadium , irrealistic stadium , there is nothing differant between small match and big ,

cartoon textures , repetive generic stadium , no cutscene , no Intro 

I dont thinks we will have this in the game one day because a i dont thinks a 2003 Proccessor can Handle it ( These are the Football Manager 2021 system requirements (minimumCPU:AMD Athlon 64 FX-51. 

 

The only truly discernible skill in the current match engine is how fast a player can run and that is still sometimes neglected during those annoyingly frequent instances when players gain a sudden speed boost as they're "dribbling" through the opposition.

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So many people want better animation for moronic on-pitch decisions. Please, people, let them fix obvious flaws like CCC conversion, crosses and tactical representation on the pitch overall. No point in fancy looks if created tactics go out if the window because engine is s..t

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1 minute ago, CEVR1996 said:

The only truly discernible skill in the current match engine is how fast a player can run and that is still sometimes neglected during those annoyingly frequent instances when players gain a sudden speed boost as they're "dribbling" through the opposition.

Pace is a key in this game 🤣🤣🤣 , kick and rush too 

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Btw very interesting to see replays of offside and goal check system. Replays of them are terrible in FM20 - camera based on falcon I guess and it's almost impossible to see something

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3 minutes ago, CEVR1996 said:

For a game striving to distinguish itself from FIFA, they're oddly familiar on that chapter!

🤣🤣🤣🤣 strange isn't it? so on the moddable game side it should be inspired by konami and PES it has already been partially done but there is nothing on the ME

Edited by destmez
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15 минут назад, saihtam сказал:

Processor: Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 – 1.8 GHz +

discontinued 8 years ago. Laptop of 8 years ago is a junk but even this could support better graphics then FM20

image.png.5656080b95b0bb5e91b1ffea02354aba.png

 

18 минут назад, saihtam сказал:

NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT

Videocard of 2008 year :eek:

image.png.ba0244d353cae557e6313a08d601ada2.png

 

 

Nvidia 2080 vs NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT

Effective speed +7k % :D

Average Score +6,9k %

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2080-vs-Nvidia-GeForce-9600M-GT/4026vsm7707

 

I'm console gamer but even my old videocard is better for 1480% in compare of this. Absolutely democratic System Requirements for sure

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31 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

discontinued 8 years ago. Laptop of 8 years ago is a junk but even this could support better graphics then FM20

image.png.5656080b95b0bb5e91b1ffea02354aba.png

 

Videocard of 2008 year :eek:

image.png.ba0244d353cae557e6313a08d601ada2.png

 

 

Nvidia 2080 vs NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT

Effective speed +7k % :D

Average Score +6,9k %

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2080-vs-Nvidia-GeForce-9600M-GT/4026vsm7707

 

I'm console gamer but even my old videocard is better for 1480% in compare of this. Absolutely democratic System Requirements for sure

and Smurf said us " FM is different to other games - it relies on a processing power, not graphical power" so I don't think we'll go very far with this (this config) 

I feel pessimistic it is useless to think that they want to push the graphics or integrate the driblble, smurf tells us that they have integrated 3D because the players ask us but if he never would have done it ? would he integrate 3D?

 Why I focus on the graphic aspect is because everything that is outside of the ME is of good quality but the Graphic Quality of the ME is not their strong point that's why I suggested that 'he works with Nvidia that could bring him a very good publicity as much for Nvidia which could promote these products in the FM niche and that Nvidia could bring a lot of visibility by relaying the results of a potential RTX mod in these social media 

This would increase the quality of content from content creators ▶ More promotion of the game

Edited by destmez
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13 minutes ago, destmez said:

and Smurf said us FM is not a Graphical game so I don't think we'll go very far with this (this config) 

I feel pessimistic it is useless to think that they want to push the graphics or integrate the driblble, smurf tells us that they have integrated 3D because the players ask us but if he never would have done it ? would he integrate 3D?

 Why I focus on the graphic aspect is because everything that is outside of the ME is of good quality but the Graphic Quality of the ME is not their strong point that's why I suggested that 'he works with Nvidia that could bring him a very good publicity as much for Nvidia which could promote these products in the FM niche and that Nvidia could bring a lot of visibility by relaying the results of a potential RTX mod in these social media 

This would increase the quality of content from content creators ▶ More promotion of the game

I have no idea what you're talking about. 

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55 минут назад, Pav_Makarov сказал:

So many people want better animation for moronic on-pitch decisions. Please, people, let them fix obvious flaws like CCC conversion, crosses and tactical representation on the pitch overall. No point in fancy looks if created tactics go out if the window because engine is s..t

I almost sure that AI programming and graphics/animation make different departments/teams of SI 

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25 минут назад, destmez сказал:

and Smurf said us " FM is different to other games - it relies on a processing power, not graphical power" so I don't think we'll go very far with this (this config) 

You need huge processor (i5 or better i7) if you're playing with a big database. Videocard is required for graphics. Its simple

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Just now, Novem9 said:

You need huge processor (i5 or better i7) if you're playing with a big database. Videocard is required for graphics. Its simple

That's not true - you can play with an i3 processor. The i3 10100F would be better some i5s or i7s.

i3 8100H would be good too.

 

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1 минуту назад, Smurf сказал:

That's not true - you can play with an i3 processor. The i3 10100F would be better some i5s or i7s.

i3 8100H would be good too.

 

for sure modern i3 10k processor is better in compare of any i5-7400 (which is not bad too). But if somebody choose between i3 10k and i5 10k forsure for processing i5 is better isn't? And i7 is the best (Intel) choice because i7 is focused for worskstation and FM days processing is procedure for workstation, do you agree?

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16 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I almost sure that AI programming and graphics/animation make different departments/teams of SI 

Still work in conjunction tho. I'm not objecting visual enhancement, just mourn core thing that's broken at the moment

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3 horas atrás, angelo994 disse:

It really put it into perspective. I’ve not really noticed just how far backwards we’ve gone until I’ve seen these screenshot comparisons. 

Same here.

I guess it's that tale of the boiling frog: if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will instantly leap out. But if you put it in a pot filled with pleasantly tepid water and gradually heat it, the frog will remain in the water until it boils to death.

FM didn't went that backwards (graphically) from one edition to the next, but over the course of various editions.

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32 minutes ago, 99 said:

Same here.

I guess it's that tale of the boiling frog: if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will instantly leap out. But if you put it in a pot filled with pleasantly tepid water and gradually heat it, the frog will remain in the water until it boils to death.

FM didn't went that backwards (graphically) from one edition to the next, but over the course of various editions.

Nice comparison, but check another post with screenshots somewhere here - it all happened in FM 2018. They removed a layer with a worn out texture and a layer with some other grass details texture and now we have such ugly pitches. The same happened when they replaced newgen faces with 3d renders - they have gone ugly as well.

Edited by Exius
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1 hour ago, Pav_Makarov said:

So many people want better animation for moronic on-pitch decisions. Please, people, let them fix obvious flaws like CCC conversion, crosses and tactical representation on the pitch overall. No point in fancy looks if created tactics go out if the window because engine is s..t

It is not only graphical part, it effects AI, decisions and all the shenanigan that works in the background. Nobody wants FIFA graphics etc, just some direction to improvements and variety in stadium/crowd is good start. Have to understand that these kind of lower end specs make development harder, it is harder to fix something and same time adding things on top of code and parameters without causing other issues. Ever wonder why issues that where fix in previous version still pop out on next iterations? 

Working on old and legacy software is damn hard and getting new developers in to understand this and work on is difficult thing to also achieve. This could be very well reason why it is not easy to add and mod stadiums by the fans, it might be the backdoor they never want to show. I am not saying it is dead old software and back-end they have, but you can see the spec it should be running and it will raise so many questions of what limitation it has for developers. I am not saying it is always true and I know it all, but the years I have been working in software development field have showed me this + add experience developers stories. The thing SI developers still manage to do is amazing and huge thanks they are keeping it going as much as possible.

It is more complex than just add higher specs and be done with it, there must be lot of work done there and it is nothing you can do in a year. We can all just hope they have a one group cooking up new ME or some significant improvements that really takes 1-3 years. But current look from start of fm18 has been worrying. Here is the point where I have hoped more involvement from Miles or some official news that they would ensure the movement to future even if wont happen the same year.  I understand aspects why people here defend but you also must understand that we love the game and want good for it.

Tech, gaming and communication in the industry has been climbing very fast in positive manner and it feels that SI starting to stay behind on these aspects. As a fan and gamer it is just worrying.

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8 minutos atrás, 99 disse:

Same here.

I guess it's that tale of the boiling frog: if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will instantly leap out. But if you put it in a pot filled with pleasantly tepid water and gradually heat it, the frog will remain in the water until it boils to death.

FM didn't went that backwards (graphically) from one edition to the next, but over the course of various editions.

I may have not played FM11 in ages now but I do vividly remember nonetheless how the match engine looked more vibrant and detailed back then, both on the 2d and 3d simulation aspects in comparison to FM 20 for example which seems massively counterintuitive and difficult to rationalise.

 

The AI itself didn't seemed any less sophisticated than that from the 2019 iteration, in fact, I dare to say FM11's match engine actually had fewer simulation bugs than FM20's, at least I don't remember seeing back then goalkeepers kicking the ball against a player right in front of them once in a while to concede an absurd goal which no accountable tactical arrangements hold any responsibility over, unlike in FM 20 where this is a fairly common scenario. I really can't find a sensible explanation, at least not one I'm comfortable sharing here as to why and how this has happened because it appears to go against the basic logic of "the more you do something, the better you'll become at it".

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31 minutes ago, 99 said:

you put a frog in a pot of boiling water

Now you made me hungry.

Anyways... I find it hard to believe SI are deliberatly downgrading the graphics every year because some people are running it on potatoes. I mean, first of all, the number of users with old worthless computers should decrease over time, not increase, and second: I remember games back in the 90:s that could adapt the graphics to suit the power of the computer. Surely SI could do that in 2020 if the problem was users with potato computers.

 

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2 hours ago, orlyzao said:

I don't get it. They state they removed the 2D Classic view because it only took advantage of the CPU, but how come we ended up with a 2D view that looks even worse? If it is supposed to be taking advantage of the GPU then surely it can get a bit more detailed? Also, there used to be two 2D views. Did they remove one and downgraded the other?

2D Classic view:

 image.png

2D view that should still be in the game:

 image.png

That is what I think happened

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8 minutes ago, CEVR1996 said:

I may have not played FM11 in ages now but I do vividly remember nonetheless how the match engine looked more vibrant and detailed back then, both on the 2d and 3d simulation aspects in comparison to FM 20 for example which seems massively counterintuitive and difficult to rationalise.

 

The AI itself didn't seemed any less sophisticated than that from the 2019 iteration, in fact, I dare to say FM11's match engine actually had fewer simulation bugs than FM20's, at least I don't remember seeing back then goalkeepers kicking the ball against a player right in front of them once in a while to concede an absurd goal which no accountable tactical arrangements hold any responsibility over, unlike in FM 20 where this is a fairly common scenario. I really can't find a sensible explanation, at least not one I'm comfortable sharing here as to why and how this has happened because it appears to go against the basic logic of "the more you do something, the better you'll become at it".

The match engine AI from 2011 is a considerably simpler than that of 2019. Not least because it doesn't have to account for any physics. Still had its own quirks too. It also hit it's limits of what it could do in FM12

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