How can I improve this tactic

[JackPretzel]

Have only been playing FM20 for a few months, so I'm not too experienced with tactics. Spent a few seasons at Palace before moving to Milan. Did okay at Palace (mid-table) but so far am doing terribly in Italy. 

I've changed the tactic/roles around a few times but to no avail. We do create some chances, however our three centre-forwards (Leao, Silva, Batshuayi) are absolutely awful so most of them are wasted. We can't defend well either - most teams turn into Mourinho's Real Madrid whenever we lose the ball further up the field.

Here are the two tactics I've been using. I started with the tiki-taka one but switched to the gegenpress after our dismal start to the season.

[JackPretzel]

Made a few tweaks to the tactic, we seem to be much better now both defensively and offensively. We dominated both Torino and Inter, but Silva and Leao...  They wasted more chances than I could count. Judging by their stats they're not terrible strikers so I don't know why they're doing so badly - we've gone four matches without scoring! This obviously isn't acceptable at a club like AC Milan. Please let me know what more I can do to improve this tactic.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, JackPretzel said:

I don't have the time to comment on all your 3 tactics at the moment, so I'll (for now) focus just on this 1st one (4-2-4). 

Honestly, I am not surprised at all that you are struggling despite managing a strong team with good players. The setup of roles and duties is highly unbalanced, which generally tends to have an adverse effect both in defense and attack.

Let me explain now...

You play in a top-heavy formation with no DM (4-2-4), which is inherently more vulnerable compared to more balanced systems (e.g. 4141dm wide a.k.a. 4123 wide). Which means that you need to pay even more attention to tactical balance than you otherwise should. However, your tactic is lacking any balance at all:

- all the front 4 players are on attacking duties (which only needlessly increases congestion in the final third, rather than making you more dangerous in attack)

- neither CM is played in a holding role; to the contrary, both are roaming midfield runners

- and on top of all that, both fullbacks are given an attack-minded WB role

The combination of the above is a clear recipe for (defensive) disaster, since the 2 CBs are virtually left to their own devices most of the time, which is especially risky when you lose possession in a dangerous area allowing the opposition to launch a quick counter. And given your in-possession instructions such as extremely high tempo and pass into space, you are probably losing possession cheaply pretty often.

Add to this your overly/needlessly aggressive defensive instructions - extreme pressing coupled with less than optimal compactness (i.e. the distance between D-line and LOE) + counter-press - and your defensive vulnerability becomes even worse. 

So these were, in short, the most pressing issues you need to seriously think about and address. 

[JackPretzel]

On 11/10/2020 at 01:20, Experienced Defender said:

I don't have the time to comment on all your 3 tactics at the moment, so I'll (for now) focus just on this 1st one (4-2-4). 

Honestly, I am not surprised at all that you are struggling despite managing a strong team with good players. The setup of roles and duties is highly unbalanced, which generally tends to have an adverse effect both in defense and attack.

Let me explain now...

You play in a top-heavy formation with no DM (4-2-4), which is inherently more vulnerable compared to more balanced systems (e.g. 4141dm wide a.k.a. 4123 wide). Which means that you need to pay even more attention to tactical balance than you otherwise should. However, your tactic is lacking any balance at all:

- all the front 4 players are on attacking duties (which only needlessly increases congestion in the final third, rather than making you more dangerous in attack)

- neither CM is played in a holding role; to the contrary, both are roaming midfield runners

- and on top of all that, both fullbacks are given an attack-minded WB role

The combination of the above is a clear recipe for (defensive) disaster, since the 2 CBs are virtually left to their own devices most of the time, which is especially risky when you lose possession in a dangerous area allowing the opposition to launch a quick counter. And given your in-possession instructions such as extremely high tempo and pass into space, you are probably losing possession cheaply pretty often.

Add to this your overly/needlessly aggressive defensive instructions - extreme pressing coupled with less than optimal compactness (i.e. the distance between D-line and LOE) + counter-press - and your defensive vulnerability becomes even worse. 

So these were, in short, the most pressing issues you need to seriously think about and address. 

Appreciate your feedback, I've switched to a gegenpress tactic like the one in my second post - but have changed the IF roles to support in order to decrease congestion in attack as you recommended. My team is performing much better, although I am again finding that my three strikers - Leao, Silva and Batshuayi, are seemingly incapable of scoring goals and I am very much reliant upon my inside forwards to finish chances. Leao has 4 goals in 13, Silva 3 in 14 and Batshuayi 0 in 7. 

This means that I am losing some matches despite otherwise being on top, like in this game against Atalanta. They had two shots on target and converted both of them. We had seven, but our only goal came from Sarabia cutting inside and striking (Batshuayi had a 6.4 rating by the end).

Is there anything I can do tactically or training-wise that can improve my striker's prolificacy? After all, none of them are necessarily bad strikers - they each scored 12-14 goals last season. 

 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, JackPretzel said:

I've switched to a gegenpress tactic like the one in my second post - but have changed the IF roles to support

So your current tactic looks like this:

PFat

IFsu                                 IFsu

CAR      MEZsu

DLPde

WBsu   BPDde  BPDde  WBsu

SKat

Positive - play out of defence, extremely high tempo, fairly narrow - take short kicks, distribute to CBs, counter, counter-press - higher D-line, much higher LOE, extremely urgent, prevent short GKD

Correct or not? 

[JackPretzel]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

So your current tactic looks like this:

PFat

IFsu                                 IFsu

CAR      MEZsu

DLPde

WBsu   BPDde  BPDde  WBsu

SKat

Positive - play out of defence, extremely high tempo, fairly narrow - take short kicks, distribute to CBs, counter, counter-press - higher D-line, much higher LOE, extremely urgent, prevent short GKD

Correct or not? 

Correct, we went on a winning run but there's been another drop-off in form. Lost to Lazio and Juventus and got knocked out of the Italian Cup by Sampdoria. Against Sampdoria we again dominated in terms of chances created yet could only score one goal, while they had a total of 3 shots and managed to convert one, resulting in a penalty shootout which they won. Against Juve and Lazio though we were comfortably second class. Think I'm getting the sack soon 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, JackPretzel said:

Correct, we went on a winning run but there's been another drop-off in form. Lost to Lazio and Juventus and got knocked out of the Italian Cup by Sampdoria. Against Sampdoria we again dominated in terms of chances created yet could only score one goal, while they had a total of 3 shots and managed to convert one, resulting in a penalty shootout which they won. Against Juve and Lazio though we were comfortably second class. Think I'm getting the sack soon 

Okay... in terms of roles and duties, switching the mezzala's duty to attack would definitely make sense along with changing the AMR into IW on support instead of IF. The rest of the setup looks good, which does not mean that a couple more tweaks couldn't make it even better or more effective. For example, switching the carrilero to DLP on support and then changing the DM's role into half-back. Like this:

PFat

IFsu                               IWsu

DLPsu    MEZat

HB

The keeper's duty could also be changed from attack into support. I would also change one of the BPDs into the standard CD. So the whole setup would now look like this:

PFat

IFsu                              IWsu

DLPsu   MEZat

HB

WBsu   CDde  BPDde  WBsu

SKsu

However, your team instructions look like a much bigger problem to me. So here are the tweaks I would recommend:

- drop the tempo a notch (from extremely high to higher)

- change the attacking width from fairly narrow to default (i.e. fairly wide under the positive mentality)

- remove the "take short kicks" and "distrubution to CBs" (because you already have the "play out of defence" turned on)

When it comes to out-of-possession TIs, I personally never play gegengpress or any style that involves extreme levels of pressing - simply because I prefer intelligent over aggressive defending. But if you insist on extreme pressing, then at least remove the Prevent short GKD and drop the LOE just 1 notch (to higher instead of much higher) in order to improve your defensive compactness a bit. 

So these are the tweaks to your tactic I personally would recommend first. It's now up to you to think about them and see if you are willing to give them a try or not. 

[JackPretzel]

On 14/10/2020 at 00:33, Experienced Defender said:

Okay... in terms of roles and duties, switching the mezzala's duty to attack would definitely make sense along with changing the AMR into IW on support instead of IF. The rest of the setup looks good, which does not mean that a couple more tweaks couldn't make it even better or more effective. For example, switching the carrilero to DLP on support and then changing the DM's role into half-back. Like this:

PFat

IFsu                               IWsu

DLPsu    MEZat

HB

The keeper's duty could also be changed from attack into support. I would also change one of the BPDs into the standard CD. So the whole setup would now look like this:

PFat

IFsu                              IWsu

DLPsu   MEZat

HB

WBsu   CDde  BPDde  WBsu

SKsu

However, your team instructions look like a much bigger problem to me. So here are the tweaks I would recommend:

- drop the tempo a notch (from extremely high to higher)

- change the attacking width from fairly narrow to default (i.e. fairly wide under the positive mentality)

- remove the "take short kicks" and "distrubution to CBs" (because you already have the "play out of defence" turned on)

When it comes to out-of-possession TIs, I personally never play gegengpress or any style that involves extreme levels of pressing - simply because I prefer intelligent over aggressive defending. But if you insist on extreme pressing, then at least remove the Prevent short GKD and drop the LOE just 1 notch (to higher instead of much higher) in order to improve your defensive compactness a bit. 

So these are the tweaks to your tactic I personally would recommend first. It's now up to you to think about them and see if you are willing to give them a try or not. 

Thanks for your feedback! I've implemented your recommendations and results have improved significantly. We've won almost every match and conceded in only two, and those were both EURO Cup II games which I rested most of my first team for, as the priority is finishing top four in the Serie A. Leao is finally starting to rediscover his goalscoring form, while Trossard has been immense as an IW on the left. My best player, however, is Lewis Cook. I made him Milan's most expensive signing at £40M and he's proven to be worth every penny. He seems to average a 7+ almost every game and has by far the highest number of key passes in the Serie A. 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, JackPretzel said:

My best player, however, is Lewis Cook

He was my best player in my Bournemouth save back in FM19 as well