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A guide to direct long ball, antifootball play - A Dyche's Burnley inspired 4-4-2


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46 minutes ago, TommyToxic said:

I've read this thread and the previous hoofball thread. Thanks to everyone that contribute, it's great reading material! I've had a lot of success with my Stoke team. Finishing 1st in the championship, currently 7th in the PL after 24 matches. The idea is pretty simple, long balls to the AF who runs at goal, or to a more stationary TM who can protect the ball until support arrives. We play narrow so that forwards have close support after the long ball from defense or GK, this also means that we have lots of players in and around the box during attacks. OIs are set up to mark and press dangerous central players, while wide players are forced wide so they have to cross. I have very few PIs, the MR get further forward, and the fullbacks stay wide in possession and cross towards the TM. I stop telling them to cross it to the TM if he is marked by a CB with better aerial ability. I'm not sure if you would consider this a counter tactic or hoofball, the game atleast recognises me as playing route one.

 

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Looks great!

When do you play the Low LOE and when the High LOE?

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1 hour ago, TommyToxic said:

I've read this thread and the previous hoofball thread. Thanks to everyone that contribute, it's great reading material! I've had a lot of success with my Stoke team. Finishing 1st in the championship, currently 7th in the PL after 24 matches. The idea is pretty simple, long balls to the AF who runs at goal, or to a more stationary TM who can protect the ball until support arrives. We play narrow so that forwards have close support after the long ball from defense or GK, this also means that we have lots of players in and around the box during attacks. OIs are set up to mark and press dangerous central players, while wide players are forced wide so they have to cross. I have very few PIs, the MR get further forward, and the fullbacks stay wide in possession and cross towards the TM. I stop telling them to cross it to the TM if he is marked by a CB with better aerial ability. I'm not sure if you would consider this a counter tactic or hoofball, the game atleast recognises me as playing route one.

 

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That is absolutely brilliant! Great job there! I like how you have a cautious and aggressive versions of the same style (Y)

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28 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

Looks great!

When do you play the Low LOE and when the High LOE?

I use the High LOE when I think I can actually win the ball higher up. I just tried to do it vs Man Utd after conceding an early pen, which resulted in them winning 3-0 because their players easily passed themself out of our press.  I naturally use low LOE more, since I'm almost always the weaker team in PL matches.

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1 hour ago, TommyToxic said:

I use the High LOE when I think I can actually win the ball higher up. I just tried to do it vs Man Utd after conceding an early pen, which resulted in them winning 3-0 because their players easily passed themself out of our press.  I naturally use low LOE more, since I'm almost always the weaker team in PL matches.

Sounds logical yeah!

 

concerning the OI's, you put all AMC/MC/DMC on tight marking and pressing allways? And all the AML/ML/WBL/DL on left foot, and the right sided ones on right foot?

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1 hour ago, JoOSTAR said:

Sounds logical yeah!

 

concerning the OI's, you put all AMC/MC/DMC on tight marking and pressing allways? And all the AML/ML/WBL/DL on left foot, and the right sided ones on right foot?

Marking is situational except on AMC. Most important thing is just to keep players in the center to press, block and mark. Always force wide players wide yes. My logic is that I have to be able to defend against crosses with my big defenders, so forcing them wide and letting them cross is ok. They still manage to dribble inside, or assist from low crosses ofc, good players awlays find a way. I also give away a fair amount of set pieces, which is also unavoidable I think.

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It feels like parking the buss is much more viable this FM than in previous versions. The 22/23 season started with me playing Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs. I expected three losses as I haven't done so well against big clubs. I decided to go with Much Lower LOE and Low DL. It's just been block after block after block. 0-0D, 4-1W, 1-2L was the results, and in the 1-2 loss I was in the lead until 84min.

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  • 4 weeks later...

This tactic single-handedly destroyed medium possession based teams

I'm currently using it at Hamburg in Bundesliga 2, we are by far the best team in the league, but I wanted to try a different style and tried this 442 

Match Stats

1362160979_MatchStats.JPG.6257765e1f1bdd1c93e66da393c4ae16.JPG

Osnabrück isn't any good atm but they try to play a vertical tiki taka style, while beating any possession record of German football in recent history they didn't even shoot once

288257405_PlayerPasses.JPG.39e2c77b2dfc6775682df7a0f522ce14.JPG

Bryan Henning (in Osnabrück he is called Xavi) managed to complete 252 passes in this game which led to a clean 10.0 rating

this tactic is doing well atm

I plan to do some adjustments when i get promoted to Bundesliga, but until then I'm going to have much fun at destroying the league

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Absolutely love the tactic. Got promoted from league two in my second season and am now on the verge of promotion from league one in the very next season despite having a small squad and budget.

One change I've made since my last update is to have my default mentality as defensive, but with tempo set to higher, I also set 'use tighter marking' on against stronger teams. I found that when I was set to balanced or positive that I would dominate weak teams but lose cheap goals on the counter and get well beaten by better teams so to be defensively solid was a priority

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1 hour ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Absolutely love the tactic. Got promoted from league two in my second season and am now on the verge of promotion from league one in the very next season despite having a small squad and budget.

One change I've made since my last update is to have my default mentality as defensive, but with tempo set to higher, I also set 'use tighter marking' on against stronger teams. I found that when I was set to balanced or positive that I would dominate weak teams but lose cheap goals on the counter and get well beaten by better teams so to be defensively solid was a priority

in some scenarios the attacking mentality leads to risky pressing maneuvers of the central midfielders, that's why I'd decrease the mentality a bit, but I like the high risk direct passing a lot

and i think that faster CB are needed, better opponents tend to play one-twos and simply knock out my defense, but to even get into the space where one-twos become a problem, a misplay by one of the CM is needed. So I think I could also fix that by decreasing the mentality 

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13 hours ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Absolutely love the tactic. Got promoted from league two in my second season and am now on the verge of promotion from league one in the very next season despite having a small squad and budget.

One change I've made since my last update is to have my default mentality as defensive, but with tempo set to higher, I also set 'use tighter marking' on against stronger teams. I found that when I was set to balanced or positive that I would dominate weak teams but lose cheap goals on the counter and get well beaten by better teams so to be defensively solid was a priority

Trying out the attacking mentality tactic was so frustrating, I'd be on the front foot all game with some magnificent attacking play and concede because of (ironically) a long ball over the top. As soon as I switched to cautious I was much more solid, even with the high lines and tempo. There's also the issue that my squad is more suited for a possession style, but where's the fun in that?

Edited by SCCP1910
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18 hours ago, heutheo said:

This tactic single-handedly destroyed medium possession based teams

I'm currently using it at Hamburg in Bundesliga 2, we are by far the best team in the league, but I wanted to try a different style and tried this 442 

Match Stats

1362160979_MatchStats.JPG.6257765e1f1bdd1c93e66da393c4ae16.JPG

Osnabrück isn't any good atm but they try to play a vertical tiki taka style, while beating any possession record of German football in recent history they didn't even shoot once

288257405_PlayerPasses.JPG.39e2c77b2dfc6775682df7a0f522ce14.JPG

Bryan Henning (in Osnabrück he is called Xavi) managed to complete 252 passes in this game which led to a clean 10.0 rating

this tactic is doing well atm

I plan to do some adjustments when i get promoted to Bundesliga, but until then I'm going to have much fun at destroying the league

Which version of the tactic are you using? Combing back through the thread it appears to have evolved. 

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my latest tweaks fwiw

image.png.404a397a3dce5812909312466889d90d.png

the only individual instructions remain the two centre midfielders as pass it shorter

and Use Tighter Marking & Play for set pieces are optional depending on opponent.

4 games to go? can i get a consecutive promotion?

unknown.png?width=1049&height=590

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This tactic and style really reminds me of CM 03/04 with the big mitre ball on the front cover where the only formation that in my mind was successful was 442 i had Romario n Edmundo playing upfront for Ipswich save  in the championship got promoted through the play offs.

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20 hours ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

my latest tweaks fwiw

image.png.404a397a3dce5812909312466889d90d.png

the only individual instructions remain the two centre midfielders as pass it shorter

and Use Tighter Marking & Play for set pieces are optional depending on opponent.

4 games to go? can i get a consecutive promotion?

unknown.png?width=1049&height=590

There's something weirdly bizarre in seeing you in first place, without having a top 3 scorer, avg rating or assist representative. 

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On 23/10/2020 at 22:13, engamohd said:

LzjHruh.jpg

@Oakland StomperI'm currently using this one, sometimes I play with a Much Higher DL and SKa cause of Sven Ulreich who's capable of dealing with One-on-ones

and I removed the time waste instruction, I usually lower the tempo and switch to shorter passing when matches are close in the 70s and further

 

imo defensive wingers are key, having Jatta left and Narey right, both very hardworking players going up and down their flanks

Edited by heutheo
defensive wingers
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11 hours ago, heutheo said:

@Oakland StomperI'm currently using this one, sometimes I play with a Much Higher DL and SKa cause of Sven Ulreich who's capable of dealing with One-on-ones

and I removed the time waste instruction, I usually lower the tempo and switch to shorter passing when matches are close in the 70s and further

 

imo defensive wingers are key, having Jatta left and Narey right, both very hardworking players going up and down their flanks

Thanks for the reply heutheo. 

Defensive Wingers are an under appreciated role in FM, especially in attacking/positive tactics. I miss being able to place them in the AML/R slots. 

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14 hours ago, heutheo said:

@Oakland StomperI'm currently using this one, sometimes I play with a Much Higher DL and SKa cause of Sven Ulreich who's capable of dealing with One-on-ones

and I removed the time waste instruction, I usually lower the tempo and switch to shorter passing when matches are close in the 70s and further

 

imo defensive wingers are key, having Jatta left and Narey right, both very hardworking players going up and down their flanks

Agree. They are versatile (those I'm adjusting when I'm behind) and allow me to defend narrow. 

Edited by yanloup64
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On 06/03/2021 at 13:29, Christopher S said:

There's something weirdly bizarre in seeing you in first place, without having a top 3 scorer, avg rating or assist representative. 

Goals from all over the pitch though, the wingers have really contributed well

 

 

image.thumb.png.95f17a0526883ddf9cddeecbce7830cf.png

my top goalscorer is joint 6th in the chart, AvR - 4th and Assists - joiny 8th. so not far off

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