Struggling to implement passing with world class players

[Chair_]

My players (man city, first season) are struggling to complete incredibly basic passes and I don't understand what's wrong with my tactics to cause this. 

I have attached two images from the first match, 10 minutes apart, of Laporte messing up very easy passes. 

On the first image, he waits for a bit then turns and passes backwards to the goalie.

On the second he waits and passes sideways to the full back. 

 

On both images, for the time between the screenshot and him passing, the highlighted pass was available, not blocked off. This means that on both occasions, the player valued the sideways/backwards pass over the highlighted one. I'm trying to figure out what combination of instructions has caused/will fix this. 

On both occasions the highlighted pass was easy (short pass along the ground), without risk (no chance of interception) and to a player higher up than 6 opposition players (putting them all behind the ball). They are as close to the 'correct decision' as you will ever see in football and somehow my world class players are struggling. 

I've attached a picture of the tactics, no individual instructions on Laporte. 

[zyfon5]

34 minutes ago, Chair_ said:

My players (man city, first season) are struggling to complete incredibly basic passes and I don't understand what's wrong with my tactics to cause this. 

I have attached two images from the first match, 10 minutes apart, of Laporte messing up very easy passes. 

On the first image, he waits for a bit then turns and passes backwards to the goalie.

On the second he waits and passes sideways to the full back. 

 

On both images, for the time between the screenshot and him passing, the highlighted pass was available, not blocked off. This means that on both occasions, the player valued the sideways/backwards pass over the highlighted one. I'm trying to figure out what combination of instructions has caused/will fix this. 

On both occasions the highlighted pass was easy (short pass along the ground), without risk (no chance of interception) and to a player higher up than 6 opposition players (putting them all behind the ball). They are as close to the 'correct decision' as you will ever see in football and somehow my world class players are struggling. 

I've attached a picture of the tactics, no individual instructions on Laporte. 

Warning note: ball playing defender on mentality lower than positive does not really work that well. Their mentality will not be high enough to act like a ball playing defender.

[Chair_]

9 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Warning note: ball playing defender on mentality lower than positive does not really work that well. Their mentality will not be high enough to act like a ball playing defender.

Is that why they keep messing up easy passes? 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Chair_ said:

The most obvious problem with this tactic is an almost complete lack of penetration, basically isolating the lone striker who is played in the most attack-minded of all striker roles.

Then there is terrible congestion in the midfield with all 5 midfielders tending to operate in virtually the same area(s) of space, which is further compounded by narrow attacking width. 

Overly conservative fullback roles - considering a formation with 2 DMs - means wide attacking support is insufficent, especially for a top team like City that mostly faces ultra-defensive opposition. Not to mention the lack of any variety in the setup of roles and duties.

What's the point of extremely high tempo in a system with the entire midfield on support duties? You are trying to play fast attacking football while at the same time having a heavily (extremely) possession-oriented setup of roles and duties. So that's an obvious contradiction. 

Focusing play through the middle is another instruction that is likely to do more harm than good, given that most opponents probably play very defensively against you and therefore are looking to pack the central areas the most. So you are trying to attack them where there is the least space possible. 

Hopefully this will help you understand what are the key issues you need to address. 

[Chair_]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

The most obvious problem with this tactic is an almost complete lack of penetration, basically isolating the lone striker who is played in the most attack-minded of all striker roles.

Then there is terrible congestion in the midfield with all 5 midfielders tending to operate in virtually the same area(s) of space, which is further compounded by narrow attacking width. 

Overly conservative fullback roles - considering a formation with 2 DMs - means wide attacking support is insufficent, especially for a top team like City that mostly faces ultra-defensive opposition. Not to mention the lack of any variety in the setup of roles and duties.

What's the point of extremely high tempo in a system with the entire midfield on support duties? You are trying to play fast attacking football while at the same time having a heavily (extremely) possession-oriented setup of roles and duties. So that's an obvious contradiction. 

Focusing play through the middle is another instruction that is likely to do more harm than good, given that most opponents probably play very defensively against you and therefore are looking to pack the central areas the most. So you are trying to attack them where there is the least space possible. 

Hopefully this will help you understand what are the key issues you need to address. 

I'm experimenting with tactics and not trying to win games, I changed tactics 10+ times that match. I'm not looking for advice on how to improve it, but advice on why those tactics lead to the decision making I observed. 

 

Fwiw the entire front 4 were set to 'get further forward', they were on support duties cause I wanted them to track back. I don't understand how narrow high tempo football is contradictory with having possession, it sounds like the way arsenal played under Wenger. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Chair_

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Chair_ said:

I'm not looking for advice on how to improve it, but advice on why those tactics lead to the decision making I observed

Given that I personally have never played with that kind of tactic, I can only assume that the potential cause of your issue is the combination of Balanced mentality and extremely high tempo. Because balanced mentality does not encourage too adventurous passing style in general (unlike higher mentalities like positive and attacking), whereas extremely high tempo forces the player to make a decision quickly. Add to this the fact that all your front players except for the striker are on support duties - which discourages them from making early attacking runs - and the picture becomes clearer (or at least it should be). 

 

2 hours ago, Chair_ said:

Fwiw the entire front 4 were set to 'get further forward'

GFF is not a substitute for attack duty. Because unlike duty, it does not alter a player's individual mentality. 

 

2 hours ago, Chair_ said:

they were on support duties cause I wanted them to track back

Okay, but do you really need all 3 of them to track back? And even if you do, why not up the mentality to Positive at least. Because with support duty under the Balanced mentality, they are hardly going to pose any serious attacking threat, especially since you mostly play against deep and packed defenses (remember, you are managing a very top team). Not to mention the likely isolation of your lone AF (which I actually did mention in my previous post). 

And to be clear - I by no means suggest that you should play all them on attack duties. After all, I myself would never do that. But at least one of them could be encouraged to make early attacking runs as well as at least one of your fullbacks. 

 

2 hours ago, Chair_ said:

I don't understand how narrow high tempo football is contradictory with having possession

Having possession and playing possession football is not necessarily the same thing. For example, Klopp's Liverpool dominates possession statistically, but they do not play possession football. 

[zyfon5]

8 hours ago, Chair_ said:

Is that why they keep messing up easy passes? 

They will pick easy safe passes if their mentality is not high enough. I know that rashidi advocates people that use ball playing defenders to play on attacking mentality. If the ball playing defenders do not have high enough mentality they play like normal central defenders. I will suggest to change your team mentality to at least positive first as I don't really think that a team like man city should be playing on balanced mentality. And by changing to higher mentality you can easily remove a few unnecessary team instructions that could be achieved by playing on higher mentality.

[Chair_]

Thanks for the advice guys I will look into upping the mentality.