Replicating Flick's Bayern Treble Winning Tactics

[FMunderachiever]

Hello Everyone

Im sure like most people, you cant help but be impressed with the progression of Bayern from Kovac to the team we now see under Hansi Flick. I have been watching a lot of Bayern matches, and found that the empty stadium matches made it easier to focus in on Flick's tactics.

I have been looking at building a replica Flick tactic, but so far, I have only tried this out in two friendlies vs mediocre opposition as id been working on a long term career with Juventus. So for now its just a replica as i see it in my mind.

Just wanted to get some opinions on this interpretation and where it could be improved.

Tactic

This is what ive decided to go for in terms of roles, and instructions. There are a few roles for a few players I have been tinkering with.

In Possession

In possession instructions I think look ok. I really want to get Alphonso Davies raiding down the left and using his athleticism so have him on the overlap. I think due to the high mentality of the team lowering the tempo slightly would work well. I also think whipped crosses as an instruction fits well. The ball that Kimmich played for Coman in the Champions League final springs to mind immediately but also Davies will put hard crosses into the box as defenders run back towards their own goal.

I chose "be more expressive" as an instruction as i really want to encourage some variability and roaming amongst the front 4 players in attack, interchanges of position.

In Transition

In transition i want the high energy counter pressing that seems common in many of the good tactics but also in Bayerns tactics, and then to look to counter immediately.

Out Of Possession

In our out of possession instructions, im trying to get more of a split block press, but definitely to prevent the short goalkeeper distribution from goal kicks, back passes etc.

What i do notice about Bayern is a pressing system they have from such situations that may not be achieveable in the game but I want to try and design. From the goalkeeper having the ball, Lewandowski tends to look to drop very deep into the opposition defensive midfield area whilst the wide men come inside to mark the centre backs. It creates this kind of box effect as i tend to see it in their matches where they can then quickly spring Muller into space.

 

Player Roles

I wont go into every single player role as some players fit well within their player roles with their player traits and without additional instructions. But ive got a few players and roles that I wanted to get some opinions on.

Kimmich

I have Kimmich as a full back, but his role looks somewhere between a supporting full back and a wide central midfielder. He has good passing AND crossing ability but not as willing to get past Gnabry as Davies would be past Coman/Perisic. So i have him sitting narrow so he can join in with midfield play, but also to cross more often. He will still get to the byline sometimes

Alaba

In possession, i want the interaction of the half back to create a back three with the full backs pushed on. Alaba has been converted into a centre back so he has a ball playing centreback role, and I am coaching him the trait of "bring the ball out of defence" to get him involved in the buildup play

Muller

I find it difficult to interpret Mullers role. He is a key man for Flick. He comes deep and can act like a playmaker, but just as easily pop up in the box and run past Lewandowski. He tends to drift out to the right hand side into a "raumdeuter" position at times to make forward runs, yet is often the hardest pressing player in the team higher than Lewandowski. I want him to swap positions with Lewandowski regularly too with Lewandowski often dropping deep.

Ive got him as an attacking midfielder on support, but this is also with the instructions to "get further forward" to be a presence in the box, "roam from position" so he can come deep for the ball to act as a playmaker as well, and "move into channels" to encourage him to drift into the right hand side half space.

Im trying to also give him a new player trait of "come deep to get ball"

Lewandowski

I want him to interact with Muller so when one drops deep, one can run in behind OR create space for an outside-in run from Gnabry. Like Muller, he roams from his position and moves in to channels, in the ambition of creating as fluid a front 4 as possible, and also looking to develop a player trait of "comes deep for ball"

 

Just wanted some advice as to whether they think this accurately reflects Flick's real life Bayern tactics and what could be improved on to get it closer to real life.

 

Thanks Everyone

[carloshcorbalan]

Hello.....

I uploaded a link to see it as you did it, with individual instructions, etc ...   

[jc577]

I’d say your roles and duties are pretty much nailed on, the only change I’d make would be Thiago to a DLP-d. I think he’s definitely the only pure playmaker in Flick’s system, and you could replicate him dropping in to make a three by asking the GK to distribute to playmaker. 

[skyline72]

Arent you the same guy who created the other thread: Replicating complex style of play?

@themadsheep2001 has shared his views on it already. 

 

[FMunderachiever]

34 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Arent you the same guy who created the other thread: Replicating complex style of play?

@themadsheep2001 has shared his views on it already. 

 

Hi yes it was and ive looked carefully at his interpretation.

That thread was mostly to discuss aspects of tactics that i dont think can be translated into the game.

Plus i wanted just a specific thread to talk about how i saw bayerns style of play to gather the thoughts of others.

[Rashidi]

I don't understand why you need to create two threads. In one thread you talk about bayern and atlanta and you start another thread to specifically discuss bayern.  It's going to lead to confusion, and I doubt anyone who posted in that thread will repost here.

[FMunderachiever]

57 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I don't understand why you need to create two threads. In one thread you talk about bayern and atlanta and you start another thread to specifically discuss bayern.  It's going to lead to confusion, and I doubt anyone who posted in that thread will repost here.

Merge the threads if you prefer?

They arent the same subject. One is how i interpret a tactic, the other is asking about how you interpret complicated real life patterns into the game in a general sense.

Edited August 25, 2020 by FMunderachiever

[Rashidi]

Then perhaps rename the other thread, so people don't assume its a flick replication there, which is exactly what i thought initially. And chances are I wont be the last one either.

[FMunderachiever]

17 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Then perhaps rename the other thread, so people don't assume its a flick replication there, which is exactly what i thought initially. And chances are I wont be the last one either.

I thought it was fairly self explanatory to be honest:

"Replicating Complex Styles Of Play; How Do You Do This? Particularly Thinking Of Gasperini And Flick Recreations"

It was asking how people take intricate real life tactical aspects and put them into the game, suggesting two current managers who have current successful tactics. Some people have highlighted some complicated real life aspects of said tactics.

Ill change it for you anyways.

[carloshcorbalan]

sorry to insist ..
could you upload tactic link ... ???   

[FMunderachiever]

2 hours ago, carloshcorbalan said:

sorry to insist ..
could you upload tactic link ... ???   

Ive not done this before, do you mean the tactic itself as a file to download?

[carloshcorbalan]

If right..
upload it in a link to download it and test it as you built it.     

[Miragepredator]

This is my version of Flicks Tactics,I use the player swap options on the DMs and Wingers to get a fluid attack and mimic how Kimmich and Thiago would often swap who would drop into the defence,Ive won back to back leagues with this lyon side

I wasnt capable of getting the whole attack scoring last season However depay got 18 goal and assists in both seasons while dembele got 20+ goals but this season i had to pretty much sign a whole new front 4 after United signed Depay back and Aouar for 70mil to Hertha Berlin(surprisingly) and they scored so often splitting the goals through the team

I also left the FBs on support so that when there is a prolonged period of possesion the FBs would eventually overlap when they wanted to

bayern.fmf

[Rexfelis]

It's hard to replicate FC Bayern with the joke of stats their players have been given.  This game favors EPL and other teams.  Look at Davies stats, he is currently clocked at 36.5km/h and yet his pace is at 17 which is lower than MBappe's even though Davies current speed of 2019/2020 is faster than Coman's top.  He should have a pace of 19 or even 20, higher stats in defense and crossing.  Muller's stats are the biggest joke considering how good of a player he is and wasted under Ancelotti and Kovac.  Muller's stats for 19/20 are equal overall to KDB, but better in UCL.  Muller's crossing and passing should be much higher along with leadership.  He's a must start player for FC Bayern, but in FM2020 his stats are so low I can't start him.

[denen123]

On 21/09/2020 at 15:07, Rexfelis said:

It's hard to replicate FC Bayern with the joke of stats their players have been given.  This game favors EPL and other teams.  Look at Davies stats, he is currently clocked at 36.5km/h and yet his pace is at 17 which is lower than MBappe's even though Davies current speed of 2019/2020 is faster than Coman's top.  He should have a pace of 19 or even 20, higher stats in defense and crossing.  Muller's stats are the biggest joke considering how good of a player he is and wasted under Ancelotti and Kovac.  Muller's stats for 19/20 are equal overall to KDB, but better in UCL.  Muller's crossing and passing should be much higher along with leadership.  He's a must start player for FC Bayern, but in FM2020 his stats are so low I can't start him.

KDB & Muller are totally different players. Comparing them in terms of output is a stretch. Muller has always had decent stats by FM standards for time. It is not unusual that some of those would be low for this version considering some should decline with age. There's also the fact that he is limited in certain areas. The role requirements for most areas he can or should play in, he can't essentially fulfill due to lack of pace & dribbling. He can play there, but you will see a better effect if he had those attributes.. SS, RMD, TQ & AMat to name a few. Your best bet is to play him as PFat. There is no real complaint there.

Davies has a Ceiling. He develops. Into those attributes you ask for. Again. plus, 17 is really fast, especially for potential.

Edited September 25, 2020 by denen123

[ElJefe4]

I would personally swap Goretzka and Thiago over so Goretzka is on the right and Thiago is on the left. With Kimmich playing a conservative full back role and Gnabry being very attacking, you may find that they are too far apart. Could mean that they struggle to combine offensively and leave big spaces on that flank defensively as well.

[Rexfelis]

On 25/09/2020 at 03:26, denen123 said:

KDB & Muller are totally different players. Comparing them in terms of output is a stretch. Muller has always had decent stats by FM standards for time. It is not unusual that some of those would be low for this version considering some should decline with age. There's also the fact that he is limited in certain areas. The role requirements for most areas he can or should play in, he can't essentially fulfill due to lack of pace & dribbling. He can play there, but you will see a better effect if he had those attributes.. SS, RMD, TQ & AMat to name a few. Your best bet is to play him as PFat. There is no real complaint there.

Davies has a Ceiling. He develops. Into those attributes you ask for. Again. plus, 17 is really fast, especially for potential.

Muller isn't declining with age, he's getting better.  He broke the Bundesliga assist record held by KBD (at the age of 24) after being benched until Flick took over November 2019.  He's looking like he will have an even better season this year.

Davies does not reach the stats he currently has.  I've played Bayern for 5 seasons and he never reaches a 19 or 20 on top speed and he is currently the fastest player in the Bundesliga and yet Coman has a higher top speed.

https://speedsdb.com/alphonso-davies-top-speed/