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My possesion based variation on Rashidis Bielsa tactic.


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18 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Great write up mate! Good to see people are still passionate with this game at this point in its lifecycle.

I have immersed myself too much in this save. :)   Btw I use your training schedules exclusively from I believe your Sociedad save and they are top notch.

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11 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I have immersed myself too much in this save. :)   Btw I use your training schedules exclusively from I believe your Sociedad save and they are top notch.

Thanks! I'm glad they work. I made a little change to it to include some more teamwork sessions, especially before big games.

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5 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Thanks! I'm glad they work. I made a little change to it to include some more teamwork sessions, especially before big games.

Rashidi frequently tells people that they aren't making enough use of match preparation sessions just prior to matches so the day before a match I set up almost exclusive match preparation sessions. It might just be a placebo for me but I do think it has made a difference. 

Edited by Crazy_Ivan
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53 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

Rashidi frequently tells people that they aren't making enough use of match preparation sessions just prior to matches so the day before a match I set up almost exclusive match preparation sessions. It might just be a placebo for me but I do think it has made a difference. 

No it definitely makes a difference. Especially in total football style systems.

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Potentially stupid question, but what makes this a "Bielsa tactic?" I ask because I associate him with 3313, which I'm trying to implement in my Frosinone save (the formation, not so much his approach to it). Is this more reflective of what he's done with Leeds?  

1 hour ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

Rashidi frequently tells people that they aren't making enough use of match preparation sessions just prior to matches so the day before a match I set up almost exclusive match preparation sessions. It might just be a placebo for me but I do think it has made a difference. 

That's pretty much always been my approach. I don't really know what training "should" look like, so I just kinda go with what seems intuitive to me. I view the day before, and sometimes the day after, as "walk through" sessions. 

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2 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

Potentially stupid question, but what makes this a "Bielsa tactic?" I ask because I associate him with 3313, which I'm trying to implement in my Frosinone save (the formation, not so much his approach to it). Is this more reflective of what he's done with Leeds?  

That's pretty much always been my approach. I don't really know what training "should" look like, so I just kinda go with what seems intuitive to me. I view the day before, and sometimes the day after, as "walk through" sessions. 

It actually isn't a Bielsa tactic it's a variation on Rashidis Bielsa tactic. So I am using some of the exact same principles from that tactic but changing things up to make it more possession orientated. 

 

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12 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I have immersed myself too much in this save. :)   Btw I use your training schedules exclusively from I believe your Sociedad save and they are top notch.

 

12 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Thanks! I'm glad they work. I made a little change to it to include some more teamwork sessions, especially before big games.

 

12 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

Rashidi frequently tells people that they aren't making enough use of match preparation sessions just prior to matches so the day before a match I set up almost exclusive match preparation sessions. It might just be a placebo for me but I do think it has made a difference. 

 

11 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

No it definitely makes a difference. Especially in total football style systems.

Teamwork Match Prep before game is a must in possession style tactics. Especially in first half of each season to help build team chemistry and cohesiveness. Not to mention it helps with pressing and develops teamwork attribute. After a while your team becomes so comfortable playing the style that is unfair to opponents. Especially if don't make crazy amount of transfers each window to disrupt the bonding process. 

@Crazy_Ivan

If you feeling adventurous, try moving your CWBs to WB positions. It helps with possession as on the ball provides better passing angles and support, while without the ball the WB positions close down better than the FB positions. However if you do move them there, I would suggest using Support duty with Overlap (it won't affect the mentality of IF-A). 

It's crazy how you can dominate games with 2323 shape. 

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Great read! I think i will use this as inspiration for my own game. I am really struggling with total football tactics in FM20, especially conceding goals from crosses. Does defending wide help with this?

Also, i do struggle to get the best from a false 9, do you think a Pressing Forward or CF could work?

Thanks!

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17 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I have immersed myself too much in this save. :)   Btw I use your training schedules exclusively from I believe your Sociedad save and they are top notch.

Where can I find this training schedule?

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42 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

Great read! I think i will use this as inspiration for my own game. I am really struggling with total football tactics in FM20, especially conceding goals from crosses. Does defending wide help with this?

Also, i do struggle to get the best from a false 9, do you think a Pressing Forward or CF could work?

Thanks!

It does help yes. Quite a lot of tactical problems result from not having the right players with the right attributes I find, so no doubt someone will tell me this tactic is awful and doesn't work for them, and certainly I have seen some of the best FM minds get told their tactics are rubbish but I find this is because a lot of people are putting literally zero thought in to the attributes their players have and a big one is the traits their players have. 

I haven't tried this with a forward that isn't a F9 but potentially it could very well work. The one issue is that both the RPM and the CAR can start from kickoffs really deep and if you have someone in the attacking role that isn't deep enough to help link up you are going to have a big disconnect between midfield and attack. If you find the right F9 and get him to learn the traits Comes deep to get ball, Tries Killer Balls often and Plays One Twos you should find an improvement. With a F9 don't discount the ability to dribble and especially their Agility as they have to turn on a dime and make smart passes. The main thing is that my F9 is there to link up play, he will chip in with 14-18 goals a season if he has a good one but he is not by any means the star of the team.

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20 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

It does help yes. Quite a lot of tactical problems result from not having the right players with the right attributes I find, so no doubt someone will tell me this tactic is awful and doesn't work for them, and certainly I have seen some of the best FM minds get told their tactics are rubbish but I find this is because a lot of people are putting literally zero thought in to the attributes their players have and a big one is the traits their players have. 

I haven't tried this with a forward that isn't a F9 but potentially it could very well work. The one issue is that both the RPM and the CAR can start from kickoffs really deep and if you have someone in the attacking role that isn't deep enough to help link up you are going to have a big disconnect between midfield and attack. If you find the right F9 and get him to learn the traits Comes deep to get ball, Tries Killer Balls often and Plays One Twos you should find an improvement. With a F9 don't discount the ability to dribble and especially their Agility as they have to turn on a dime and make smart passes. The main thing is that my F9 is there to link up play, he will chip in with 14-18 goals a season if he has a good one but he is not by any means the star of the team.

Thanks for the reply, its definitely food for thought! 

I have just started a Rangers save and Morelos doesn't fit the F9 mould i dont think, so i will test it with CFsup. Once I sell him (which i inevitably will have to) i think i will look for a F9 player.

Cheers!

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How does the RPM work with the carrilero? Im going to be honest, I started to love CAR once Rashidi talked me into trying him, but I'm still very doubtfull of the role partnering. Mezzala is cool but assists rarely, and I find the Mezzala on support completely minus 1 on the pitch.

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27 minutes ago, Razor940 said:

How does the RPM work with the carrilero? Im going to be honest, I started to love CAR once Rashidi talked me into trying him, but I'm still very doubtfull of the role partnering

Rashidi himself used a combo of RPM and carrilero in his Hannover 442 system with a lot of success.

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12 hours ago, Razor940 said:

How does the RPM work with the carrilero? Im going to be honest, I started to love CAR once Rashidi talked me into trying him, but I'm still very doubtfull of the role partnering. Mezzala is cool but assists rarely, and I find the Mezzala on support completely minus 1 on the pitch.

Its the least of my worries tbh. They do sometimes play a little bit too close to each other but I would put issues with the Carillero and Roaming Play Maker partnership as the least of my problems.

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