Is the 4-1-4-1 shape overpowered?

[Fudal]

Here is the tactic I am using, to great success I must say

 

Now is FMT easier than full blown FM? Or is this tactic just clicking for some reason idk, I feel like no tactic this attacking should work. Any ideas? Here are some of my best players

Edited August 10, 2020 by Fudal

[Fudal]

I should probably be happy with this streak but I can’t help but be annoyed that there’s no resistance 

[crusadertsar]

I dont understand this game anymore  

I have been struggling for most of the duration of FM20 trying to create a balanced 4-1-4-1 Wide that actually scores consistently. And you just come up with a tactic on Attacking mentality with no less than 6 attack duties and every single tactical instruction checked off. And you go on a 72 match winning streak? Wow

That's it I give up.

Edited August 10, 2020 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

@Fudal what's your rational for some of your team instructions by the way? I'm especially interested in "play for set pieces" and combination of extremely high tempo with attacking mentality? Are all the instructions there to recreate a specific style of play?

Edited August 10, 2020 by crusadertsar

[Experienced Defender]

8 hours ago, Fudal said:

Now is FMT easier than full blown FM? Or is this tactic just clicking for some reason idk, I feel like no tactic this attacking should work

Plug'n'play (exploit) tactics are successful even though they make very little (if any) sense in terms of football and tactical logic. I cannot know for sure if your tactic is one of those - although it does strongly resemble them - just offering a possible reason as to why it works.

[MRAFTCT]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

I dont understand this game anymore  

I have been struggling for most of the duration of FM20 trying to create a balanced 4-1-4-1 Wide that actually scores consistently. And you just come up with a tactic on Attacking mentality with no less than 6 attack duties and every single tactical instruction checked off. And you go on a 72 match winning streak? Wow

That's it I give up.

You can't give up as I need some inspiration 😂

I love FM and my favourite formation IRL is a 4 1 4 1 wide but for the last 3 or 4 versions I have really struggled, especially with scoring goals.

So I definitely do not think it's over powered! 

[Fudal]

2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

@Fudal what's your rational for some of your team instructions by the way? I'm especially interested in "play for set pieces" and combination of extremely high tempo with attacking mentality? Are all the instructions there to recreate a specific style of play?

I let my GK take free kicks and penalties so I want them to get as many opportunities as possible . 
 

 

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Plug'n'play (exploit) tactics are successful even though they make very little (if any) sense in terms of football and tactical logic. I cannot know for sure if your tactic is one of those - although it does strongly resemble them - just offering a possible reason as to why it works.

I really do think this is a plug and play tactic, but because I made it myself I have continued to use it time and time again, and it just works for some reason.

[Overmars]

The shape isn't overpowered. Using overly aggressive and attacking tactics is. If you played that shape with much more conservative instructions then you would see worse results.

The game doesn't do a good enough job of punishing risky attacks. My two reasons for this:

1. AI teams can be incredibly passive, rarely actually trying to punish superior teams.
2. One on ones end in an overwhelming amount of missed chances, so you can face repeated one on ones and still keep clean sheets.

[crusadertsar]

42 minutes ago, Overmars said:

The shape isn't overpowered. Using overly aggressive and attacking tactics is. If you played that shape with much more conservative instructions then you would see worse results.

The game doesn't do a good enough job of punishing risky attacks. My two reasons for this:

1. AI teams can be incredibly passive, rarely actually trying to punish superior teams.
2. One on ones end in an overwhelming amount of missed chances, so you can face repeated one on ones and still keep clean sheets.

It's curious that this works so well now in FM20. Because I remember trying something similarly gung-ho in my younger days with FM17 when I didn't really understand that there was such thing as balanced tactics and didn't try to recreate real football too much. But i had my backside handed to me on a platter when I would play like this. Even with stronger teams like Man United.

Edited August 10, 2020 by crusadertsar

[Fudal]

28 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

It's curious that this works so well now in FM20. Because I remember trying something similarly gung-ho in my younger days with FM17 when I didn't really understand that there was such thing as balanced tactics and didn't try to recreate real football too much. But i had my backside handed to me on a platter when I would play like this. Even with stronger teams like Man United.

It really does feel like FM20 caters towards attacking and high pressing tactics. I wish things like anti football were replicable in FM, but I don’t know how you would be able to play such a strong mental game as Simeone’s sides have.

[XuluBak]

I'm pretty clueless when it comes to touch, and while I generally agree that highly aggressive gegenpressing tactics can be overpowered in FM20 (they were in FM19 too)...

I don't think France is the best indicator of anything. Same could be said of Portugal, the Netherlands, etc., where you have 1-2 sides that dominate domestically. Once you've "usurped" them, there just aren't enough resources in the league for anyone to close the gap, especially if you have European success. 

I think, by far, the greatest shortcoming of FM is that it's way, way too easy to dominate the transfer market. Scouts never get it wrong. Players don't fail to adapt or unexpectedly fail. So if you have vastly superior talent, you can just crush your opposition with pressure. 

[crusadertsar]

50 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

I'm pretty clueless when it comes to touch, and while I generally agree that highly aggressive gegenpressing tactics can be overpowered in FM20 (they were in FM19 too)...

I don't think France is the best indicator of anything. Same could be said of Portugal, the Netherlands, etc., where you have 1-2 sides that dominate domestically. Once you've "usurped" them, there just aren't enough resources in the league for anyone to close the gap, especially if you have European success. 

I think, by far, the greatest shortcoming of FM is that it's way, way too easy to dominate the transfer market. Scouts never get it wrong. Players don't fail to adapt or unexpectedly fail. So if you have vastly superior talent, you can just crush your opposition with pressure. 

Yeah, I agree. Let's see him dominate Premiere League in the same way 

[Fudal]

29 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Yeah, I agree. Let's see him dominate Premiere League in the same way 

Challenge accepted 

[Fudal]

Season 1 Finish

I used IR to play this season, so I didn’t get full control tactically, but I am very happy with 8th position. We were predicted to finish 15th, and if arsenal win the FA Cup final I’m pretty sure we get Europe.

[Fudal]

Season 2 Finish

We fell off a cliff after September and never recovered 

[ReadingFan82]

5 hours ago, XuluBak said:

I'm pretty clueless when it comes to touch, and while I generally agree that highly aggressive gegenpressing tactics can be overpowered in FM20 (they were in FM19 too)...

I don't think France is the best indicator of anything. Same could be said of Portugal, the Netherlands, etc., where you have 1-2 sides that dominate domestically. Once you've "usurped" them, there just aren't enough resources in the league for anyone to close the gap, especially if you have European success. 

I think, by far, the greatest shortcoming of FM is that it's way, way too easy to dominate the transfer market. Scouts never get it wrong. Players don't fail to adapt or unexpectedly fail. So if you have vastly superior talent, you can just crush your opposition with pressure. 

In fairness to this guy he has won the champions cup 5 times in 9 seasons so its worked outside of France as well

[crusadertsar]

5 minutes ago, ReadingFan82 said:

In fairness to this guy he has won the champions cup 5 times in 9 seasons so its worked outside of France as well

Yup, and with a team like Strasbourg. And I couldnt even win it in all my months playing FM20 with both Benfica and Man United lol.

[ReadingFan82]

1 minute ago, crusadertsar said:

Yup, and with a team like Strasbourg. And I couldnt even win it in all my months playing FM20 with both Benfica and Man United lol.

Well I can assure you it definitely isn't just you that has had a lot of issues on this years game 

[Fudal]

30 minutes ago, ReadingFan82 said:

Well I can assure you it definitely isn't just you that has had a lot of issues on this years game 

This was probably my only successful save this year 

34 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Yup, and with a team like Strasbourg. And I couldnt even win it in all my months playing FM20 with both Benfica and Man United lol.

Don’t worry I didn’t take any offense to the comment about it only working in France, I would also love to see if you could get success with this tactic in your games

[XuluBak]

26 minutes ago, ReadingFan82 said:

In fairness to this guy he has won the champions cup 5 times in 9 seasons so its worked outside of France as well

I know. I acknowledged aggressive gegenpressing is overpowered. That's usually my start point (admittedly, not to the extreme illustrated above), then get bored, and move on trying to get different things to work. 

[ReadingFan82]

7 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

I know. I acknowledged aggressive gegenpressing is overpowered. That's usually my start point (admittedly, not to the extreme illustrated above), then get bored, and move on trying to get different things to work. 

Yeah that's fair enough sorry I might not have fully understood what you'd meant in your original comment.

That's interesting you say about getting bored with a certain play style. I've never really had that myself, as long as my team is doing well I can't say I've ever really been too tempted to ever change it from how it is at that time.

[Fudal]

9 minutes ago, ReadingFan82 said:

Yeah that's fair enough sorry I might not have fully understood what you'd meant in your original comment.

That's interesting you say about getting bored with a certain play style. I've never really had that myself, as long as my team is doing well I can't say I've ever really been too tempted to ever change it from how it is at that time.

Yeah my teams have always played gegenpress and it will never change!

[fivetwelvepony]

On 10/08/2020 at 13:49, Experienced Defender said:

Plug'n'play (exploit) tactics are successful even though they make very little (if any) sense in terms of football and tactical logic. I cannot know for sure if your tactic is one of those - although it does strongly resemble them - just offering a possible reason as to why it works.

You call them an exploit, but you have to admit it is a little discouraging. Take a standard formation with normal positions, not one of these crazy asymmetric formations, then add in stuff that should make it work worse, but instead it works better. 

I was in the same boat. I started playing this year in FM20, and it was a few months before I even knew about downloading tactics and Knap. I was playing with a 4-2-3-1, reading all the guides, and adding up the "points" for tactic balance from the guidetofm website. Then I discover one of the top rated tactics was a Knap 4-2-3-1 with mostly similar roles, but breaking all the rules in terms duties -- having all support down one side, pairing an AMC-A with an AF-A, etc. Basically taking a tactic I had come up with on my own, but adding duties that should make it worse, not better. Anyway, I personally found it discouraging.

Edited to say that I've come to terms with it, and I'm starting to think more independently now.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Experienced Defender
a mention of fm base

[ReadingFan82]

1 hour ago, fivetwelvepony said:

You call them an exploit, but you have to admit it is a little discouraging. Take a standard formation with normal positions, not one of these crazy asymmetric formations, then add in stuff that should make it work worse, but instead it works better. 

I was in the same boat. I started playing this year in FM20, and it was a few months before I even knew about downloading tactics and Knap. I was playing with a 4-2-3-1, reading all the guides, and adding up the "points" for tactic balance from the guidetofm website. Then I discover fmbase, and I see one of the top rated tactics was a Knap 4-2-3-1 with mostly similar roles, but breaking all the rules in terms duties -- having all support down one side, pairing an AMC-A with an AF-A, etc. Basically taking a tactic I had come up with on my own, but adding duties that should make it worse, not better. Anyway, I personally found it discouraging.

Edited to say that I've come to terms with it, and I'm starting to think more independently now.

This. 100% this. It completely kills any desire to want to try and make something that is sensible and looks like it makes sense when you know that it would make a far better tactic in game to ridiculous instructions with player roles that don't make sense to work at all in game.

I've read a lot of the guides and what not and they do make perfect, logical sense for how football should work. The problem is not them at all, but the match engine and how it seems to reward these bizarre nonsensical tactics that for some reason walk all over the match engine. If the match engine was coherent in that way it would be pretty great in my opinion and hopefully it can get improved for the next game. 

[goku4]

37 minutes ago, ReadingFan82 said:

This. 100% this. It completely kills any desire to want to try and make something that is sensible and looks like it makes sense when you know that it would make a far better tactic in game to ridiculous instructions with player roles that don't make sense to work at all in game.

I've read a lot of the guides and what not and they do make perfect, logical sense for how football should work. The problem is not them at all, but the match engine and how it seems to reward these bizarre nonsensical tactics that for some reason walk all over the match engine. If the match engine was coherent in that way it would be pretty great in my opinion and hopefully it can get improved for the next game. 

The biggest issue with the match engine is the conversion rate of 1on1s... I have never tried out these uploaded tactics, but from what I can see, it is impossible that these tactics give away lots of chances. But since strikers tend to miss 19 of 20 situations, where they run towards the keeper, it doesnt really hurt these "exploit" tactics playing with very high d-line, aggressive, 7-8 attacking duties etc... If the conversion rate was much higher, people, even those trying to crack the ME, would be way more careful when considering the depth of d-line and whether the full backs and wingers should all have attacking duties...

[FMunderachiever]

1 hour ago, goku4 said:

The biggest issue with the match engine is the conversion rate of 1on1s... I have never tried out these uploaded tactics, but from what I can see, it is impossible that these tactics give away lots of chances. But since strikers tend to miss 19 of 20 situations, where they run towards the keeper, it doesnt really hurt these "exploit" tactics playing with very high d-line, aggressive, 7-8 attacking duties etc... If the conversion rate was much higher, people, even those trying to crack the ME, would be way more careful when considering the depth of d-line and whether the full backs and wingers should all have attacking duties...

Id have to agree.

You seem less likely to concede from a 1 v 1 situation than from a shot from the edge of the area.

So it makes sense given the way the games pan out to press as high and hard as possible, and trust your keeper to save the 1 v 1, rather than risk being done from a cross or a long shot.

Its better to just have fun with the game i think anyway. I just like to try and pound the opposition now with good teams.

[FMunderachiever]

1 hour ago, goku4 said:

Imagine how awful the match engine has become, when you just chill in 1on1 situations (I use key highlights) but get a heart attack when the opposition has a set piece in the last second... the match engine is really awfull... I stopped playing when SI took away the tactic table. Tried out fifa after 10 years, but did not like it, as it was very toxic. But FM can be even more toxic... I really like to go into details when it comes to tactics... but as soon as I drop the LOE or d-line from very high to high, or extremely urgent to more urgent, the AI just plays around the back and keeps the ball with its cautious play style to just nick one in from a random cross or set piece...

You also have the weird paradox of trying to be a successful attacking team, and trying to create chances that are not 1 v 1s, but instead shots from the edge of the area.

Its really easy with pacey forwards to defend in a compact shape, nick the ball, play into space for a quick striker. But even with very good composure these chances will be missed over and over again.

Too many goals are scored from set pieces so you can quite easily pick a tall physical team and whip the ball into them to attack from set pieces.

But from open play you have to kind of find away to get players into the area between the 18 yard line and left and right edges of the box to shoot from, these positions score the most goals by a long way.

[goranm]

After 3 or 4 of seasons any successful tactic will become overpowered due to bad AI team building and generally not playing to the strengths of its players. I'm yet to see a season in which AI Liverpool utilize Salah as the primary goalscorer, or at least have him consistently score +10 league goals.

You are some 13 seasons in, so it's not surprising to me that you'd go on such an unbeaten run. As seasons go on, it is easy to go more and more attacking, to the point of attacking mentality being the starting point in any match as your opponents will generally start the match very cautiously and on the defensive, even if they're a world class team with the home advantage. The match engine is not penalizing this guns blazing approach enough. With a similar tactic and instructions I went on a +100 match unbeaten run and finished the league with 8 goals conceded from 5 matches.

[Xavier Lukhas]

There's something broken almost every year anyway. FM15 was somewhat balanced... except that the equivalent of Positive + Fluid was by default the best shape and team mentality to use, RPMs were unstoppable forces of nature, and keepers were incredible at stopping penalties; penalties already weren't amazingly balanced in FM14 if my memory serves; but then in FM18, keepers became suddenly hilariously worse at stopping spot kicks. FM16 had unstoppable crosses no matter what you did, and CWBs were frequently populating Ballon D'Or podiums as a result. In an attempt to fix that, FM17 had your wide midfielders always marking the FBs and leaving huge spaces in the half-spaces between them and their CMs/DMs; so much so that having a three-man midfield was a sure way to dominate easily. FM18 had players like Vardy either always getting behind your defenders or being offside; your defenders were absolutely clueless on how to mark them or how to play of the offside trap effectively (to be honest, running intelligence has never been FM's forte), and FM19 was barely better in that regard.

The AI always has been looking at reputation way too much in assessing about every aspect of the game. Player selection in transfer windows (like having some kids refuse loans because "not reputable enough club Boss"), how to line up, how good a player is, so on and so forth. Transfer and wages values are indeed based on reputation. Coming back to the ME and combined with how God awful the AI is at creating tactics, this results in teams respecting your squad too much. I've always said that if you have your tactics sorted out, it's almost easier to play in the Champions' League as the less reputable team because the bigger clubs leave themselves more exposed, allowing your somewhat inferior players to exploit their weaknesses or the home/away bias.

Anyway, that went tangential real quick.

[goku4]

Has anyone tried this one out from the very first season on and can report whether it is successfull consistently? Hard to think that you can put pressure on the AI who tends to play cautious or defensive mentality and just passes the ball around in his own half... 

[Karlo]

14 hours ago, fivetwelvepony said:

You call them an exploit, but you have to admit it is a little discouraging. Take a standard formation with normal positions, not one of these crazy asymmetric formations, then add in stuff that should make it work worse, but instead it works better. 

I was in the same boat. I started playing this year in FM20, and it was a few months before I even knew about downloading tactics and Knap. I was playing with a 4-2-3-1, reading all the guides, and adding up the "points" for tactic balance from the guidetofm website. Then I discover fmbase, and I see one of the top rated tactics was a Knap 4-2-3-1 with mostly similar roles, but breaking all the rules in terms duties -- having all support down one side, pairing an AMC-A with an AF-A, etc. Basically taking a tactic I had come up with on my own, but adding duties that should make it worse, not better. Anyway, I personally found it discouraging.

Edited to say that I've come to terms with it, and I'm starting to think more independently now.

I 100% agree with this.

It's demotivating to see that you put a lot of thought into reading guides, reading the forum here and then trying to translate that to FM and then find out that it just doesn't work the way you'd like to see. And not because you do not have the 'hard' work for it, but purely because a tactic with crazy pressing and contradictory roles and team instructions generally wins over such a self-made approach.

[Impacto]

There will always be flaws in the Match Engine. Evert year is this one main thing, then they fix it and something else brakes. It's just the way it is, unfortunately. 

The 1v1 stupidity, however, should never be allowed to happen in a game of this magnitude. NEVER! I don't know why it happened, but there is no excuse for that. There is testing phases for a reason. They corrected it a little but, but still It completely breaks the game. Like people above said, high pressing and attacking should be a risky strategy used by big teams. But because of the poor 1v1 conversion there is not much penalty to this. You can always NOT use this style of play, but come on, the game should not be that easy to exploit. 

And the biggest issue of them all - when you win the league, the game is over. You are now a top team with a top reputation and the AI only geats weaker from this point. So it gets boring and you drop the save. There is a reason most saves with big teams last 2-3 seasons on average. There is almost no incentive to keep going. 

There should be a penalty for winning too much. Players get complacent, they lose the hunger, teams figure out how to beat you and you're forced to find a new way to win. All these things are non existant in the game for the most part. 

Since the AI is too limited to compete with the human manager, make things harder for us after we've had some success. You can't make the AI better? OK, I understand, people on low end PCs should be able to play too. Then make the human weaker.  After you get to the top. You know the saying getting ot top is hard, but staying on top is even harder? Yeah that has to happen in FM. And then it's a whole new game. Now you win the league and you know it's going to be very hard to do it again. You'll have to be on top of your game.

Football is cyclical and no one is on top for too long. This should be in the game as well, or at least very hard to achieve. Then situations like this will not be an issue. 

What do you guys think? 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Experienced Defender
bad language

[yolixeya]

On 10/08/2020 at 05:05, Fudal said:

Here is the tactic I am using, to great success I must say

This is just ridiculous, winning CL and eveerything with this tactic. ME needs to improve to not allow this. I would never advise anyone to play with 4 wide players on attack and if my friend wanted to do that I would say to him that he will concede goals all the time. I would at least try to persuade him not to use CWBs or to add some protection in the middle like Anchorman but there is no need. You can play with Regista, RPM an Mezz no problem. I won't even bother with commenting TIs. I am a little out of touch with what is possible in FM as I would never try to use something like this because it doesn't make sense. Fixing this should be priority for ME team. Not 1 on 1s or anything else.

[goku4]

48 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

This is just ridiculous, winning CL and eveerything with this tactic. ME needs to improve to not allow this. I would never advise anyone to play with 4 wide players on attack and if my friend wanted to do that I would say to him that he will concede goals all the time. I would at least try to persuade him not to use CWBs or to add some protection in the middle like Anchorman but there is no need. You can play with Regista, RPM an Mezz no problem. I won't even bother with commenting TIs. I am a little out of touch with what is possible in FM as I would never try to use something like this because it doesn't make sense. Fixing this should be priority for ME team. Not 1 on 1s or anything else.

Yet, how I said, the main reason why these overattacking tactics work and not get punished is due to the extremely low goal ratio of 1on1s and also wingers and fullbacks just running into the goal instead of just making a pass to the extremly free striker in the penalty box... let the conversion rate of clean 1on1s increase and all those tactics will end up with conceding 4-5 goals each game... since you know that long ball behind the defence is not effective, you can just attack without hesitation and tell all your players to press whenever possible...

[yolixeya]

I don't think anyone is claiming that ME is perfect, and I think that most issues that people blame on ME are actually AI issues.  But these over the top tactics need to be punished, regardless.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Experienced Defender
quoted part edited out

[Overmars]

As a general rule, if you are going to use CWB on the flanks then you should have three at the back or at least one holding DM in the middle. A HB(d) role would make a lot of sense in that tactic. If you get on a losing streak and other teams start to really go at you then you might need to switch to a 4-2-3-1 DM formation and use two holding DMs to protect yourselves. Similarly, you could give your wingbacks less aggressive roles.

I know the match engine favours aggression, but there is still some value in plugging defensive holes of your own and preventing open shots from just outside the box or free access to the wings. The only way you get away with having CWB(a) on the flanks and only two people staying back is if your opponents are much weaker and refuse to challenge you.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Experienced Defender
quoted part edited out

[Enzo_Francescoli]

On 17/08/2020 at 19:04, yolixeya said:

I don't think anyone is claiming that ME is perfect, and I think that most issues that people blame on ME are actually AI issues.  But these over the top tactics need to be punished, regardless.

Yeah, they should. Remember when the beta came out? The one with the abundance of long balls behind the defense? I believe it was an honest try by SI to punish these tactics. So what happened? The forums exploded. So, with the update, back to gegenpressing we went. A vast majority of the world's most popular clubs play some kind of a high press. As long as people watch these games and decide that hey want to play like Klopp or Guardiola and then go apply it to the game and have success and buy next year's edition, intense high pressing will stay a bit overpowered. I hope I'm wrong, but until it stops being football's dominating trend, the game will reflect that.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Experienced Defender
speculation about SI business policies

[yolixeya]

37 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Yeah, they should. Remember when the beta came out? The one with the abundance of long balls behind the defense? I believe it was an honest try by SI to punish these tactics. So what happened? The forums exploded. So, with the update, back to gegenpressing we went. Ultimately, it's a business decision. Whichever sells more copies of the game will win the day. A vast majority of the world's most popular clubs play some kind of a high press. As long as people watch these games and decide that hey want to play like Klopp or Guardiola and then go apply it to the game and have success and buy next year's edition, intense high pressing will stay a bit overpowered. I hope I'm wrong, but until it stops being football's dominating trend, the game will reflect that.

Gegenpressing tactic dominating in FM is not the problem. Nothing wrong with that. But if you want to press but leave yourself exposed and have no cover whatsoever then you should be punished just like in real life. That tactic posted has only 2 CBs defending and all the roles are focused on the attack, coupled with aggressive TIs. I didn't play beta so I don't know what was happening but I guess the long balls over the top would be annoying if it is happening often. They don't happen that much in real life so they don't need to be so common in FM. Teams can get punished on counter without using a long ball over the top.

[crusadertsar]

That's the problem. I don't think things are going to change. Not as long as developers are committed to recreating current stats, aka Premier League statistics for goals scored etc. Which is supposesed to be more realistic right. But at the expense of player agency and tactical feedback. So unfortunately when you think you create that killer tactic with a beastly poacher and world-class playmaker behind him, thinking that you are going to see a ton of goals, guess again. A lot of goals is not what we see in Premier League right now so it ain't going to happen. Face ten parked buses instead and have your top striker score 10 for the whole season.

So what about just giving us the tactical tools to create any kind of tactic and then have the stats reflect how effective that tactic is without any "contemporary" bias? You know like the tactical testing field that FM was in the old days? So sure that will open the way to more exploity tactics but it will also allow us to just create any tactic we wish and actually see them perform as we envision with the tactical instructions.

In other words it would be great if there was less statistical bias and more accurate tactical feedback from the player's input.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Experienced Defender
quoted part edited out

[FMunderachiever]

As i alluded to in my thread about recreating tactics, i just think modern football is too complicated to be put into a computer game of this nature.

A lot of people dont necessarily WANT it to be complicated. its a computer game to play in their spare time, its not their job like its Klopps actual job.

I just have the feeling that certain patterns of play are so easy to create, their effectiveness has to be reduced by means that we see as being dumb.

Cant defenders cut out the long through pass more often? or goalkeepers sweep up? defenders shouldnt be able to pass with such accuracy for example.....but istead there are tons of one on one chances missed.

 

 

[goku4]

11 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

As i alluded to in my thread about recreating tactics, i just think modern football is too complicated to be put into a computer game of this nature.

A lot of people dont necessarily WANT it to be complicated. its a computer game to play in their spare time, its not their job like its Klopps actual job.

I just have the feeling that certain patterns of play are so easy to create, their effectiveness has to be reduced by means that we see as being dumb.

Cant defenders cut out the long through pass more often? or goalkeepers sweep up? defenders shouldnt be able to pass with such accuracy for example.....but istead there are tons of one on one chances missed.

 

 

I think the biggest reason for the low 1on1 conversion rate is that the DevOPs dont have a solution to prevent those long balls/through balls and therefore in order not to have tennis results in a football game each match, they keep the conversion rate so low. Also I think its an issue of the match engine not providing more flexibility. I saw it in FIFA as well. There, pace is also META and overpowered. Without pace, nothing works. The best way to score is long balls to pacey forwards. In FM, it is similar except you miss lots of those 1on1s. But the mechanics are very similar, the match engines only offer a certain way/style of play...

[FMunderachiever]

5 minutes ago, goku4 said:

I think the biggest reason for the low 1on1 conversion rate is that the DevOPs dont have a solution to prevent those long balls/through balls and therefore in order not to have tennis results in a football game each match, they keep the conversion rate so low. Also I think its an issue of the match engine not providing more flexibility. I saw it in FIFA as well. There, pace is also META and overpowered. Without pace, nothing works. The best way to score is long balls to pacey forwards. In FM, it is similar except you miss lots of those 1on1s. But the mechanics are very similar, the match engines only offer a certain way/style of play...

but logically, if you were going to make 1 v 1s less effective, the reality is that:

1) Central defenders shouldnt be able to make pin point 60 yard passes. Some of the time, yes. But these balls should bounce through to the goalkeeper, out of play, or be cleared far more often

2) Opposition defenders should be better equipped to deal with the long ball, even if its a good one

3) The forward running onto the through ball should mis control sometimes, or let the chance get away from him etc

 

Instead all we see are forwards through on goal constantly missing. its disappointingly predictable

[Experienced Defender]

Since this thread has developed into a discussion (rant) chiefly about the ME and in a way that is not appropriate for this tactical section of the forum,  I am locking it permanently.