Defending Set Pieces is a Nightmare!

[mister.cool40]

Almost every away match I concede a goal from set piece.To be honest I really don't understand how defensive set piece routines should work ( to prioritise which position and which player to defend which zone ). But if the set piece routine is at fault then theoretically I should concede as *frequently in home as in away matches,which is definitely not the case cz I almost never concede set piece goals at home.My guess is the ME gives a big boost to the chance that an attack would result in goal for the home team.As a result the home team scores more from set pieces and also from general play.But this is just my guess,I very well might be wrong.

Trying defensive set piece training schedules before away match helps,but not always.Against a top team in away match these training routines almost have no effect as they almost certainly score from set pieces. Against smaller teams they help,but doing them before every away match is not a viable option.

I have tried numerous set piece routines but the results are not satisfactory.Most are focused on scoring and the ones for defending are not properly explained.Sometimes when I think I get close to a good routine and even do the training schedules but in the match a SCRAMBLE happens and AI scores.These experiences are incredibly frustrating and almost makes the game unplayable.It's not to say I never benefitted from set piece goals but I would happily give up all the set piece goals I scored for the ones I conceded. 

*frequently = set piece goals I concede with respect to the set piece chances I give up

Edited August 4, 2020 by mister.cool40

[XaW]

First of all, SI have acknowledged that there are issues with set pieces in the game, so I expect they will change something for FM21.

HOWEVER, it's far from impossible to negate it to a degree. In my current game, I'm 14 games in, and I've conceded 3 from freekicks and 1 from corner. I've also scored 3 from freekicks and 5 from corners. Not horribly much with 8 goals of 33 in total for, and 4 of 17 against.

So, I'd advise you to take a look at what happens and try to find out if it's the instructions or players that are the reason for each situation. In an earlier save I didn't concede much, but a few seasons later I conceded A LOT. So I checked it out and when I initially set up the set pieces my DM was a big burly fellow, so I had him man mark. A few years later, my DM was a short, more playmaker type, and I found he very often lost duels or were far away from his marked man for a lot. It was not very easy to spot, but when I saw it, it became obvious. So I changed my set pieces for only the single role and I conceded a lot less from that point.

TLDR: The game has issues, but they can be negated (at least partially) or worsened by instructions and/or players.

[mister.cool40]

3 minutes ago, XaW said:

First of all, SI have acknowledged that there are issues with set pieces in the game, so I expect they will change something for FM21.

HOWEVER, it's far from impossible to negate it to a degree. In my current game, I'm 14 games in, and I've conceded 3 from freekicks and 1 from corner. I've also scored 3 from freekicks and 5 from corners. Not horribly much with 8 goals of 33 in total for, and 4 of 17 against.

So, I'd advise you to take a look at what happens and try to find out if it's the instructions or players that are the reason for each situation. In an earlier save I didn't concede much, but a few seasons later I conceded A LOT. So I checked it out and when I initially set up the set pieces my DM was a big burly fellow, so I had him man mark. A few years later, my DM was a short, more playmaker type, and I found he very often lost duels or were far away from his marked man for a lot. It was not very easy to spot, but when I saw it, it became obvious. So I changed my set pieces for only the single role and I conceded a lot less from that point.

TLDR: The game has issues, but they can be negated (at least partially) or worsened by instructions and/or players.

Thanks for the reply.....Do you have some reliable set piece routines I can use?I have gotten to a point I can't compete in the league bcz of set pieces.

[XaW]

8 minutes ago, Nahidul Islam said:

Thanks for the reply.....Do you have some reliable set piece routines I can use?I have gotten to a point I can't compete in the league bcz of set pieces.

I've used plenty different, but I tailor each to my team (lesson learned!). So I'd start by analyzing each conceded goal and see what happened and go from there. One of my old tactics is uploaded to Steam, so for the team I used that for, the instructions should be in it.

[Swindon69]

5 hours ago, XaW said:

First of all, SI have acknowledged that there are issues with set pieces in the game, so I expect they will change something for FM21.

HOWEVER, it's far from impossible to negate it to a degree. In my current game, I'm 14 games in, and I've conceded 3 from freekicks and 1 from corner. I've also scored 3 from freekicks and 5 from corners. Not horribly much with 8 goals of 33 in total for, and 4 of 17 against.

So, I'd advise you to take a look at what happens and try to find out if it's the instructions or players that are the reason for each situation. In an earlier save I didn't concede much, but a few seasons later I conceded A LOT. So I checked it out and when I initially set up the set pieces my DM was a big burly fellow, so I had him man mark. A few years later, my DM was a short, more playmaker type, and I found he very often lost duels or were far away from his marked man for a lot. It was not very easy to spot, but when I saw it, it became obvious. So I changed my set pieces for only the single role and I conceded a lot less from that point.

TLDR: The game has issues, but they can be negated (at least partially) or worsened by instructions and/or players.

I had the same where I had a midfielder back who was 6 foot plus - when I changed my side around it was a while before I picked up the player now doing the job was 5 ft 4 in.

[busngabb]

On 04/08/2020 at 19:08, XaW said:

First of all, SI have acknowledged that there are issues with set pieces in the game, so I expect they will change something for FM21.

HOWEVER, it's far from impossible to negate it to a degree. In my current game, I'm 14 games in, and I've conceded 3 from freekicks and 1 from corner. I've also scored 3 from freekicks and 5 from corners. Not horribly much with 8 goals of 33 in total for, and 4 of 17 against.

So, I'd advise you to take a look at what happens and try to find out if it's the instructions or players that are the reason for each situation. In an earlier save I didn't concede much, but a few seasons later I conceded A LOT. So I checked it out and when I initially set up the set pieces my DM was a big burly fellow, so I had him man mark. A few years later, my DM was a short, more playmaker type, and I found he very often lost duels or were far away from his marked man for a lot. It was not very easy to spot, but when I saw it, it became obvious. So I changed my set pieces for only the single role and I conceded a lot less from that point.

TLDR: The game has issues, but they can be negated (at least partially) or worsened by instructions and/or players.

I'm not sure this issue can be negated by anything other than just having a vastly superior side and dominating games so they opposition doesn't get many set pieces. Even then it still feels materially broken. It's just a big issue in the game that makes the match engine hard to enjoy for me. The type of set pieces are just stupid. No Premier League team slings the ball in with a huge curl from deep unless potentially it's the last minutes of the game. They all take the free kick short unless it's close. Long throws also aren't a common source of goals. Some teams have tried, Stoke et al, but you're very unlikely to see a goal from a long throw these days, 99.9% travel about three feet to the side foot of the very next player who passes it back. Corners on FM have a ridiculously high success rate, maybe not for the initial header, but certainly the ensuing mess after it. I have Yerry Mina and Jarrad Branthwaite at centre back too, it's soul destroying.

Statistically I don't concede that many from set pieces. 9 in my last 25 games. But I've only conceded 13 in that time, 70% of goals being from set pieces makes them feel far worse. The game engine is responsible for this, teams are far too urgent in getting the ball towards the goal, where in the top leagues they wouldn't as it would be so easy to defend. Having highlights start at a set piece should never happen either, nothing worse than dominating possession and chances, then the highlights coming on for your opposition's 5 ft 4 right winger to nod in from a corner and leave Yerry Mina crying over another missed header.

 

[XaW]

Just now, busngabb said:

I'm not sure this issue can be negated by anything other than just having a vastly superior side and dominating games so they opposition doesn't get many set pieces. Even then it still feels materially broken. It's just a big issue in the game that makes the match engine hard to enjoy for me. The type of set pieces are just stupid. No Premier League team slings the ball in with a huge curl from deep unless potentially it's the last minutes of the game. They all take the free kick short unless it's close. Long throws also aren't a common source of goals. Some teams have tried, Stoke et al, but you're very unlikely to see a goal from a long throw these days, 99.9% travel about three feet to the side foot of the very next player who passes it back. Corners on FM have a ridiculously high success rate, maybe not for the initial header, but certainly the ensuing mess after it. I have Yerry Mina and Jarrad Branthwaite at centre back too, it's soul destroying.

Statistically I don't concede that many from set pieces. 9 in my last 25 games. But I've only conceded 13 in that time, 70% of goals being from set pieces makes them feel far worse. The game engine is responsible for this, teams are far too urgent in getting the ball towards the goal, where in the top leagues they wouldn't as it would be so easy to defend. Having highlights start at a set piece should never happen either, nothing worse than dominating possession and chances, then the highlights coming on for your opposition's 5 ft 4 right winger to nod in from a corner and leave Yerry Mina crying over another missed header.

I mean, I've previously posted proof that it's indeed possible. When I was an average side and conceded a total of 3 set piece goals over an entire season (40+ games). So it is indeed possible, but you need the right combination of a setup that is suitable and set up to match your players, and of course not only have very short players.

So, as I wrote, there are issues, but they are possible to negate, even as an average side.

Still, if you have decided it's impossible to handle, then yes, it's impossible for you to handle since you have made up your mind. For me it was possible, albeit it required a lot of rewatching conceded goals and some trial and error to find the right combination. So it's not a fun part of the game, but it is possible to do if that is what really stops you from enjoying the game. So I do hope SI will work on it for FM21.

[busngabb]

4 minutes ago, XaW said:

I mean, I've previously posted proof that it's indeed possible. When I was an average side and conceded a total of 3 set piece goals over an entire season (40+ games). So it is indeed possible, but you need the right combination of a setup that is suitable and set up to match your players, and of course not only have very short players.

So, as I wrote, there are issues, but they are possible to negate, even as an average side.

Still, if you have decided it's impossible to handle, then yes, it's impossible for you to handle since you have made up your mind. For me it was possible, albeit it required a lot of rewatching conceded goals and some trial and error to find the right combination. So it's not a fun part of the game, but it is possible to do if that is what really stops you from enjoying the game. So I do hope SI will work on it for FM21.

There are so few options for set pieces though. You tell which players to start where and potentially have them mark certain people or specific players. That's all you can do. I haven't got this wrong, it's often Mina and Branthwaite being beaten to the headers, it's not like I've got Bernard marking Van Dijk. Is there a specific thread or post I can see your setup on?

[XaW]

Just now, busngabb said:

There are so few options for set pieces though. You tell which players to start where and potentially have them mark certain people or specific players. That's all you can do. I haven't got this wrong, it's often Mina and Branthwaite being beaten to the headers, it's not like I've got Bernard marking Van Dijk. Is there a specific thread or post I can see your setup on?

My tactic from that time is uploaded to steam (named with my username so it should be possible to find). That setup was tailored to the players I currently had though, so it's not a plug-and-play setup. I used it with another team and failed, so I had to change it up some. Still, it could be a base to work from if you are struggling.

[busngabb]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

My tactic from that time is uploaded to steam (named with my username so it should be possible to find). That setup was tailored to the players I currently had though, so it's not a plug-and-play setup. I used it with another team and failed, so I had to change it up some. Still, it could be a base to work from if you are struggling.

Cheers, will try to find it.

[XaW]

Oh, and with my current one corners works fine, but I'm still having issues with free kicks, but I'm working on it...

That's 1 corner conceded in the last 50 matches. Still 10 freekicks in the same interval, so I need to continue to tweak it.

e: I should add, I'm playing in Austria now, trying to beat Red Bull Salzburg (and eventually winning CL....hopefully) in a youth only challenge, so I'm not using a lot of amazing players, only players from my own academy.

Edited August 7, 2020 by XaW

[xavierm]

Le 04/08/2020 à 20:08, XaW a dit :

First of all, SI have acknowledged that there are issues with set pieces in the game, so I expect they will change something for FM21.

HOWEVER, it's far from impossible to negate it to a degree. In my current game, I'm 14 games in, and I've conceded 3 from freekicks and 1 from corner. I've also scored 3 from freekicks and 5 from corners. Not horribly much with 8 goals of 33 in total for, and 4 of 17 against.

So, I'd advise you to take a look at what happens and try to find out if it's the instructions or players that are the reason for each situation. In an earlier save I didn't concede much, but a few seasons later I conceded A LOT. So I checked it out and when I initially set up the set pieces my DM was a big burly fellow, so I had him man mark. A few years later, my DM was a short, more playmaker type, and I found he very often lost duels or were far away from his marked man for a lot. It was not very easy to spot, but when I saw it, it became obvious. So I changed my set pieces for only the single role and I conceded a lot less from that point.

TLDR: The game has issues, but they can be negated (at least partially) or worsened by instructions and/or players.

 

I can't say for sure whether you have negated the issue or not. What I see is that you score and concede from set pieces at quite the same ratio (25% of your scored and conceded goals come from set pieces).

To be totally accurate and to be sure you really mitigated the issue, it would be interesting to know which ratio of your corners result in a goal, and which ratio of their corners result in a goal.

Conceding 3 from FK and 1 from corner is OK if you had 60 FK and 20 corners against you, but KO if you have 6 FK and 2 corners, if you see what I mean.

[XaW]

1 hour ago, xavierm said:

I can't say for sure whether you have negated the issue or not. What I see is that you score and concede from set pieces at quite the same ratio (25% of your scored and conceded goals come from set pieces).

To be totally accurate and to be sure you really mitigated the issue, it would be interesting to know which ratio of your corners result in a goal, and which ratio of their corners result in a goal.

Conceding 3 from FK and 1 from corner is OK if you had 60 FK and 20 corners against you, but KO if you have 6 FK and 2 corners, if you see what I mean.

Certainly I haven't proven anything, but for people in here claiming they are conceding 150% of their goals from free kicks or corners can take some from it and improve their own setups (and yes, the 150% is a joke, I don't know how well it would translate into writing).

Since that was a few seasons back, I can't be bothered to go back and count corners (since free kicks can be anywhere on the pitch i would had to WATCH all free kicks the entire matches...), but going from the last 5 matches in the current season my opponents have had an average of about 5 corners against me per match. Going of that semi-arbitrary number the opponents had roughly 70 corners in those matches and scored 1 goal. So that is quite a low number in my opinion. As I said, I don't think counting free kicks would matter since few/some of them we actually be shots or crosses, but to give a number the average for the same 5 matches were just over 17 per match. So based on that they scored 3 in 238, a very low percentage, but as I said, I don't think that translate well.

In summary though, it implies that I'm not conceding often nor many at all.

[jozza800]

On 05/08/2020 at 01:01, Swindon69 said:

I had the same where I had a midfielder back who was 6 foot plus - when I changed my side around it was a while before I picked up the player now doing the job was 5 ft 4 in.

This is massively important - so much so that I often wont sign players with poor jumping or are under 5' 10".

You do need to keep an eye on when switching positions in the TC, it can have horrible effects on the set pieces set up.

 

In fact SI need to have a look at how the whole tactic creator is worked - as moving players around the tactics screen can create right messes, when switching from one tactic to another. I still havent totally figured this out.

[mister.cool40]

I think I owe everyone the courtesy of giving this update : with some head scratching I conjured up some set piece routines that has been remarkable.Hardly giving away any set piece goals now.Although I think it is due to the fact that these routines need at least 5 players who are good in the air.Will discuss the routines very soon.

[DementedHammer]

One thing that may make a difference that isn't mentioned here is also training defensive set pieces regularly. 

I don't have any proof that it helps. But logically, if your team is struggling to deal with set prices, then spending more time working on them on the training ground could be beneficial.