442 Diamond Narrow

[Fatkidscantjump]

Hello,

I've been playing for a few seasons with a 433 and while I was happy with the results, I felt it was a bit lacking in some games. Moreover, my 2 best wingers were wanted by big clubs and wanted to leave, and I have really good central midfielders, and to spice things up i fancied a tactic change for a while.
I've settled for a 442 diamond cause I think it fits my squad.

Here is the tactic and instructions (lots of players you won't know cause they're regens, but I have a pretty good team, with the likes of Tonali, Esposito and similar players) i've come up with :

Does that makes sense ?
Here is a breakdown of my thought process for roles and TIs.

Defending Triangle (HB - CDs) : Central Defenders cause i just expect them to pass it to wingbacks or midfielders, don't need anything fancy. Half back cause I will play with very offensive wingbacks as the formation needs it.

Left side (CWB(a) - CAR - AF) : On the AF side I wanted to have the wingback on attack so he could link up better with the AF. For the midfielder, i've considered 3 roles : BWM(s), DLP(s) and CAR. I feel like CAR would be more useful covering the space the wingback will leave behind and supporting him. Also, since I plan to use Tonali there, i feel like he would still have some creativity as a DLP would have.

Right side (CWB(s) - Mez(s) - DLF(s)) : This is the more "creative" striker side, I went for a DLF(s). But honestly I don't know, maybe switch him to Pressing Forward (s) considering my TIs ? Or even F9, i feel F9 would drop a bit too deep though. Really not sure about that one. Since the Striker is deeper on that side I went with a slightly more conservative Wingback on support, and a Mezzala on support to link up and still provide width.

 

Trequartista : I feel like the description matches what I would want from a player in this area, someone who will try to get into space and either score himself or provide an assist. I feel like theres a lot of movement around him (AF making runs hopefully drawing defenders, DLF dropping deep hopefully drawing defenders too + wingbacks stretching wide with the help of the 2 cm) that in theory he should be able to work. In my mind at least. Also, I was worried about the role not being too defensive but the player i wanna play here, Abramovich (got tired of being chelsea's president and wanted to get on the field) got 17 work rate and 15 stamina so hopefully he will contribute to the pressing.

Now the the team instructions :

Mentality : not sure tbh, went with Positive because I feel like it would suit most of my games, i expect to control the game.

In possession :

• "Play out of defence" : I feel like I would be the better team in most of the games and I don't wanna give back possession with random long balls. My strikers are OK in the air but not the best.
• "Wide" : i feel like playing narrow will leave too much congestion in the center of the pitch. I want my Wingbacks / Mez / Car to stretch up opposition so my Trequartista / AF / DLF have more space to work with. I feel ilke "Extremely Wide" would be a bit too much especially considering my positive mentality.

Nothing else seems worthy of checking here. Something i'm strongly considering here is "Hit early crosses" to speed up play in the last third.

In transition :

Just "Counter press", i feel like I'm playing too high up for Counter to be effective. Since i'm playing out of defence I don't feel the need to restrict furthermore the goalkeeper.

 

Out of possession :

I went with gegenpress instructions since I feel the formation is suited for it. 2 strikers + AMC + 2 midfielders would be able to press very high.

• "Higher defensive line / LOE with offside trap" : feels like the way to go with a gegenpress type style. Might be worth dropping deeper and removing offside vs bigger teams maybe ?
• "Extremely urgent pressing" / "Prevent GK distribution" : self explanatory, i wanna press as much as I can, prevent them to exploit the space behind my lines.
• "Use Tigher Marking" : not sure about this one. Feels like it would help the pressing. But maybe i'm mistaken ?

 

That's pretty much it. Idea is pressing very high, stretching the opponents with the wingback supported by CMs. Open up spaces in the middle for the Trequartista and the forwards to exploit. Or using wingbacks to deliver crosses. I would like to pretend I tried to mimic Gallardo's river, but the truth is i have nowhere near enough tactical knowledge for that.

What do you guys think ? Any fundamental mistakes you can see in my thought process ? Do you see this tactic performing well and which changes would you consider ? Any help appreciated.

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

Let's hope you don't get destroyed on the counter, not just because of your extremely aggressive manner of defending but also a shaky setup of roles and duties. For me personally, the tactic does not look solid enough. But sometimes such tactics can actually be very successful in FM. So I would encourage you to test the tactic first, because none of us can know in advance if it will work or not.

[XuluBak]

I think you're on the right track, but I'd...

1. Lower press intensity a notch - "extremely urgent" is overkill
2. Drop"complete" from your WBs - keep it simple (and run your ass off)
3. Get rid of prevent short distribution - I'd prefer to encourage them to try to play through the press than attack FBs long.
4. Lastly, I'd want a DLP in there somewhere - I generally gravitated more to 4312, then drop the central CM back, if needed, so that's what made the most sense to me (also puts them central to maximize their touches), but if you're thinking strictly 442d, then LCM would make sense. 

[Fatkidscantjump]

Il y a 1 heure, Experienced Defender a dit :

Let's hope you don't get destroyed on the counter, not just because of your extremely aggressive manner of defending but also a shaky setup of roles and duties. For me personally, the tactic does not look solid enough. But sometimes such tactics can actually be very successful in FM. So I would encourage you to test the tactic first, because none of us can know in advance if it will work or not.

I feel like I should be able to play this way in the games i'm favored so I can be really agressive and try to get a goal early. Then maybe switch to a second tactic which would basically be the same but more conservative to keep control of the match without exposing myself too much to counter attacks ? Like, switching wingbacks to fullbacks, dropping lines and whatnot ? Which element do you feel is the more vulnerable in the tactic ? I feel like the wingbacks are my biggest weakness but at the same time the formation implies they would be very offensive. So maybe switch the mezzala to something else ?
 

 

il y a 40 minutes, XuluBak a dit :

I think you're on the right track, but I'd...

1. Lower press intensity a notch - "extremely urgent" is overkill
2. Drop"complete" from your WBs - keep it simple (and run your ass off)
3. Get rid of prevent short distribution - I'd prefer to encourage them to try to play through the press than attack FBs long.
4. Lastly, I'd want a DLP in there somewhere - I generally gravitated more to 4312, then drop the central CM back, if needed, so that's what made the most sense to me (also puts them central to maximize their touches), but if you're thinking strictly 442d, then LCM would make sense. 

To be honest I wasn't really sure about the CWB but i've read somewhere they can be good to use in Wingerless formations.
I have applied your recommendation on pressing, mostly because I feel like i don't have that much depth in the bench so any energy saved would do me good in the long run.

DLP was something I heavily considered, it felt like the Carrilero would be a more conservative choice but maybe i was mistaken. I guess I can put the DLP on a defense duty against bigger teams and on support against teams I'm supposed to win.

 

Thank you both for the advices, i'm about to start the season so i'll post later or tomorrow with some first results.
 

[nick1408]

10 hours ago, Fatkidscantjump said:

I feel like I should be able to play this way in the games i'm favored so I can be really agressive and try to get a goal early. Then maybe switch to a second tactic which would basically be the same but more conservative to keep control of the match without exposing myself too much to counter attacks ? Like, switching wingbacks to fullbacks, dropping lines and whatnot ? Which element do you feel is the more vulnerable in the tactic ? I feel like the wingbacks are my biggest weakness but at the same time the formation implies they would be very offensive. So maybe switch the mezzala to something else ?
 

 

To be honest I wasn't really sure about the CWB but i've read somewhere they can be good to use in Wingerless formations.
I have applied your recommendation on pressing, mostly because I feel like i don't have that much depth in the bench so any energy saved would do me good in the long run.

DLP was something I heavily considered, it felt like the Carrilero would be a more conservative choice but maybe i was mistaken. I guess I can put the DLP on a defense duty against bigger teams and on support against teams I'm supposed to win.

 

Thank you both for the advices, i'm about to start the season so i'll post later or tomorrow with some first results.
 

I wouldn't use CWB's in a 4-4-2. I may use one in a 3-5-2 as the extra guy back does allow a bit of coverage. The CWB doesn't really offer much in defence. Have a look at the highlighted important attributes:

No marking or positioning, flair and off the ball are important. Have a look at the important attributes for an advanced playmaker (support):

 What's the difference? The AP-Su requires vision but not crossing or tackling, the CWB-At requires work rate. Otherwise, all the important attributes are the same. Would you expect an advanced playmaker to be defensive? This is why I don't expect a CWB to be defensive.

[Fatkidscantjump]

Il y a 1 heure, nick1408 a dit :

I wouldn't use CWB's in a 4-4-2. I may use one in a 3-5-2 as the extra guy back does allow a bit of coverage. The CWB doesn't really offer much in defence. Have a look at the highlighted important attributes:

No marking or positioning, flair and off the ball are important. Have a look at the important attributes for an advanced playmaker (support):

 What's the difference? The AP-Su requires vision but not crossing or tackling, the CWB-At requires work rate. Otherwise, all the important attributes are the same. Would you expect an advanced playmaker to be defensive? This is why I don't expect a CWB to be defensive.

Yeah you are right, I guess the name confused me, since "Complete" would imply he tries to do everything. But clearly he is way more offensive than defensive.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Fatkidscantjump

[Fatkidscantjump]

Changes I made (basically followed Xulubak advices) :

• Changed CM left from CAR to DLP(s).
• Changed CWB(a) and CWB(s) to WB(a) and WB(s)
• Added "Hit early crosses" instruction. Felt like my Wingbacks would often receive the ball with a lot of space / time to cross or pass. And they would just slowly getting forward while the defender would come back to them. Then they would either attempt a cross and get it countered or recycle possession back to Mezzala / DLP. I felt like Hit early crosses would help surprise defenses more.
• Changed Line of engagement from Higher to Standard. Felt like it would help to be more compact in defense, hopefully don't let their midfielders time to play through balls.
• Changed one CD(d) to BPD(d), on the WB(a) side. Felt like it would open more passing options, give a bit of variety to the play.

Here are some results, currently mid-december.

Ligue 1 :

Well, this might seem spectacular, and it is quite good. Only loss is against Tottenham away, I was already qualified for the next round so I heavily rotated. But i'm in 2025 with a pretty good team, so honestly most of these games I was expected to win easily. Big satisfaction is the game vs PSG though.



I'm particularly solid in defense, surprisingly. I think vs most teams my squad is just too good at pressuring for them to be able to exploit the space i'm leaving behind. Most of my starting midfield / strikers have 15+ in workrate and agression so I think this helps a lot not getting caught out too much. I regularly see Tonali (DLP(s)) getting back on the touchline to follow the wide defender for example. Most of the danger comes from the flanks and in the box i got my 2 CDs that have good jumping reach and header, plus Zakaria which doesnt have that great header stats but is 1.90m and has a 17 in Bravery. Even my left wingback is 1.89m and has 17 jumping reach (only 10 in header though).

As for the offense it is perfectible I think. I've got lots of "close" wins where I dominate the game but win 1-0 or 2-1.

Lots of crosses, 6 opposition mistakes is good cause I feel like that's the result of the intense pressing. Through balls are basically the DLP Tonali (13 assists in 18 games) chipping it to AF(a) Esposito (18 goals in 23 games) which has the trait "Likes to Beat offside trap".
Esposito's form have been a huge part of our success, i'm hoping its because the role suits him well.

Here are the passes from the last match I played (4-1 win at Home vs Nimes).

This is worrying me a little bit since theres an heavy bias on the left side. Which is understandable given that this is the side I have the AF(a) and Wingback(a). I feel like while it clearly works for the moment it could be too predictable vs bigger teams. Which is why i'm considering options : swapping my two strikers role maybe ?



 

 

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, Fatkidscantjump said:

Like, switching wingbacks to fullbacks, dropping lines and whatnot ? Which element do you feel is the more vulnerable in the tactic ? I feel like the wingbacks are my biggest weakness but at the same time the formation implies they would be very offensive. So maybe switch the mezzala to something else ?

The problem is not roles themselves. The problem is how you combine them to get good balance both in defense and attack. CWB is a very nice role in narrow systems, but not with a mezzala on the same side, because both roles are very attack-minded (on either duty) and highly roaming, so there is none to protect that side/flank properly. 

But as I said earlier - test the tactic first. Maybe your players are really good enough to handle great defensive risks. You cannot know until you try. I just know that my tactic would be set up differently, but that's just my personal approach and need not necessarily be yours.

[XuluBak]

On 04/08/2020 at 08:18, Fatkidscantjump said:

Here are the passes from the last match I played (4-1 win at Home vs Nimes).

This is worrying me a little bit since theres an heavy bias on the left side. Which is understandable given that this is the side I have the AF(a) and Wingback(a). I feel like while it clearly works for the moment it could be too predictable vs bigger teams. Which is why i'm considering options : swapping my two strikers role maybe ?

I think the left side bias probably has more to do with Tonali playing DLP in the LCM slot. If that's concerning, then I'd recommend shifting him central, either in the DM strata, or in a 4312, as a DLP(D). A case could be made for flipping your DLF/AF, regardless. That'd balance you out a bit.