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Hi all. Just started a new save with 1860 Munich. I'm looking for advice on how to play a gegenpress tactic with a target man up front (4-3-3 formation with a DM and two wingers). My thoughts at the moment are to play the TM on support and surround with two inverted wingers/forwards on attack and a box to box midfielder to boot, giving him options to knock the ball down to. Anyone got any other words of advice?

Secondly, I know only playing with one playmaker is a generally good rule of thumb because of how the role alters how the rest of the team play. Is this also the case with a playmaker and a target man? Again I know both roles encourage the rest of the team to give them the ball more often than not so would it confuse the tactic to use, for example, a deep lying playmaker with a target man up front?

Thanks in advance for all your advice!

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Given that gegenpress counts among fast attacking styles, using a TM should be okay (generally speaking). However, I personally never play gegenpress, so I am probably not the right person to offer you more specific advice on the rest of your tactic. 

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I tried this a little bit with my St. Pauli save when 5-3-2 wasn't clicking, and my problem was that the target men were a bit too ponderous in possession for my liking, sitting on the ball for far too long and not laying it off fast enough to really create, and letting the defense organise.

Of course, that could be down to the (poor) quality of my target men in terms of passing, vision and decisions.

I had a lot more success with a quick, high pressing game using a split block and a PFa. It's actually working a treat in the bundesliga now as well immediately after promotion, positive and imo risky tactic but drew Bayern away and creamed Dortmund at home with great output from the PFa.

Edit to add: most of my goals have come from close range headers, the PFa is the target man sort. He has had one on one chances because of teams attacking us, and his pace is not terrible (Borys Tachy) but I don't think any of my strikers have scored a one on one yet in a season and a quarter.

Edited by Druvi
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I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 Gegenpress on Benfica. I don't change almost nothing from default and just bring season after season better players the roles required. I only change mentality, most of league matches attacking mentality. European Competitions Positive or balanced mentality.

First season I win league and portuguese cup. Bottom on champions league group, awful European Competitions season.

Second season. Win all domestic trophies, league, Portuguese cup, league cup and super cup. Reach champions league quarter finals, I was defeated by Manchester City on penalties. That's a great season for Benfica, any Portuguese team reaching UCL quarter finals is great.

Just following the default schema and trying to bring great players executing those roles seems to work. Keep it simple

Edited by inacion
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22 hours ago, DanBeats90 said:

Hi all. Just started a new save with 1860 Munich. I'm looking for advice on how to play a gegenpress tactic with a target man up front (4-3-3 formation with a DM and two wingers). My thoughts at the moment are to play the TM on support and surround with two inverted wingers/forwards on attack and a box to box midfielder to boot, giving him options to knock the ball down to. Anyone got any other words of advice?

Secondly, I know only playing with one playmaker is a generally good rule of thumb because of how the role alters how the rest of the team play. Is this also the case with a playmaker and a target man? Again I know both roles encourage the rest of the team to give them the ball more often than not so would it confuse the tactic to use, for example, a deep lying playmaker with a target man up front?

Thanks in advance for all your advice!

I'm not going to say it's impossible to play Gegenpress with a targetman however I wouldn't be a fan. If the ball is on for a speedier player running deep he might get ignored as the targetman is the option players are going to look for. I actually had a targetman type in my Bath City save when I first took over but I played him as PFsu. It's a similiar role in possession but is physical without and fits in with the philosophy better. I always think of targetmen best utilised in a counter attacking tactic where your team sit deeper so he provides an outball. 

Like I said, it wouldn't be impossible as I'm pretty sure I caught a BTN video somewhere with Rashidi played a high press system with a targetman. I just personally feel it's not particularly a role that leds itself to the playing style. PF, DLF or CF fit in quite nicely.

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I don't see any reason you can't press/gegenpress with a target man, but seems out of place in a 433. I suspect your options are somewhat limited, but if you've got a TM, they can likely work as a DLF. 

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I would more likely prefer a DLF over a TM in a Gegenpress. The idea behind GGP is that you win the ball quickly and high up the pitch - the TM is ideally suited to teams that win the ball deeper and fire longer, higher balls forward. The transition is quick and a TM might not keep up, nor would the player on the ball necessarily be able to deliver the way a TM would like. The DLF would be in and around for a shorter pass, and a little more agile to switch during transition.

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6 hours ago, Snorks said:

I would more likely prefer a DLF over a TM in a Gegenpress. The idea behind GGP is that you win the ball quickly and high up the pitch - the TM is ideally suited to teams that win the ball deeper and fire longer, higher balls forward. The transition is quick and a TM might not keep up, nor would the player on the ball necessarily be able to deliver the way a TM would like. The DLF would be in and around for a shorter pass, and a little more agile to switch during transition.

think zlatan in a gegenpress 

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On 22/07/2020 at 18:30, rossenori said:

think zlatan in a gegenpress 

Fair point, but Zlatan was so much more than just a Target Man, and was, to be fair, a bit of a unique case.

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