Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '08

[AlexisManson]

Originally posted by wwfan:

Looks pretty good. Only thing I would play around with is the DMC's FWRS and Closing Down. I find it best to have a DMC heavily CDing with no FWRs, but you might find, with a global mentlaity, he sits too close to the back four that way.

I'd also look at tempo in attack and shift it between fast and slow depending on conditions.

Do you really believe weather conditions are a crucial factor in deciding what kind of tempo to play at?

So if the weather is cool and dry, tempo can be set high, but if it is hot and/or wet, tempo should be set to low?

[wwfan]

Best to play high tempo in busts in such conditions or you'll drain your players.

[AlexisManson]

If your scout identifies a player as a main threat for the next match, and you want this player to have no space and no influence on the game, would you rather close him down in OI, or tight man mark him?

So if I understand your logic wwfan, you would never use tight marking in conjunction with heavy CD? It's either one or the other? What makes you decide which one you would rather use?

[llama3]

well thanks to the tactics i have stuck to based on wwfan's tt&f i have just won the league with 101 points, (W33, D2, L3) - the 3 defeats were all in the last 8 games, and all due to playing weak sides. i scored 88 points first season, didnt win the league, 92 in the 2nd season, still didnt win league, 94 in 3rd season, won at a canter, and finally 101 points, won by a stonking country mile.

so cheers is what i am saying

[freddiw]

ok I have read this through as well as the links and am beginning to understand what everything means.

As an FM/CM player my way has changed signifigantly from buying the best and being content to not touch the settings and win everything with arsenal in champ man 01 to trying to understand and master tactics in 08.

I have had minor success in the past with the FM08 game coming 3rd with Arsenal in my first season and going trophieless, hitting christmas at 5th with Atrhletico and getting Coventry promoted (USING INTERNET TACTICS)

now I ask myself why and what is my intention, I love the game and although I barely class myself as viable to play the game I still want a challenge and love winnning/losing games. Now however I want to go up to the next level.

I just spent about an hourtweaking tactics and trying to get myself 4 good 4-4-2 formations, another 3 hours later and 24 games I have lost 16 and drawn 8 winning 0. Continually tweaking and editing what was going on around me, persuading myself it would click , AND IT DIDNT .

Now I ask myself some questions and am hoping you guys and wwfan can answer at least a few of them

- Is the 'Player Instruction' option compulsery if you want to win trophies and become the best.

- How would you advise learning the game and what should I do to improve my knowledge of these Frameworks

- Can matches and trophies be won simply with good transfers/formation and team setting.

- How and when do I know what to tweak during the match, or is it just instinct?

Thankyou and I hope you can answer these questions.

Please add me on msn if you want to give me further adivce

fredster-aussierules@hotmail.co.uk

[AlexisManson]

I think a basic thing you need to do first is look at the formation of your opponents and decide whether they are playing offensively or defensively.

A 4-4-2 with forward arrows (farrows) on the wingers is an offensive tactic. A 4-4-2 with no farrows is defensive. A 5-4-1 is defensive, so are a 5-3-2 and a 4-5-1.

Now what you want to do is play the oppposite style. Thy're playing defensively, and you're at home, plus the pre-match odds are in your favour? Fine. Play offensively. Set the team settings to: Mentality Attacking; Width Wide; Time Wasting Little; Closing Down Heavy etc...

Yes individual instructions are important. Set fullbacks and wingers on at least forward runs, run with ball and through balls 'mixed', or even 'often'. Basically the more offensive you want to play, the more you want your players to run with the ball, to have creative freedom, to try through balls, to make forward runs, to cross balls etc...

If you are the underdog, playing away and/or your opponents' tactic looks offensive, you might want to choose these settings: Mentality: Defensive; Width: Narrow; Closing Down Little; Counter Attack

You want your players to attempt less forward runs, running with ball, crossing, through balls etc...

Finally look at your scout's report of your opponents. Follow any advice he may give you. Also, you may want to tight mark and hard tackle the player whom your scout deems to be the main threat.

These are very general guidelines to give you an idea of what you should be thinking about when preparing for a game. Hope they helped.

[AlexisManson]

May I point out that your opponents will almost always change ther formation during a match, so keeping an eye on the formations screen and adjusting accordingly is key to getting good results.

[AlexisManson]

Ok whatever you do don't thank me freddiw

[DomD]

So I have read through your post and a bunch of stuff on FM-Britan. I set up the tactics, OI, and team talks as per your suggestions.

The one thing I could not figure out is how to counter a tactic that is different from a traditional 4-4-2.

I'm playing the Polish 1st Division with Lech Poznan. My first match of the season was against Groclin who line up in a 3-5-2.

I used the counter tatctic with a regular 4-4-2. My players were outplayed the whole match and were lucky to only lose 2-1. I did make some mistakes during the match myself sticking to the coutner tactic for too long even after it was apperant that it was not working. But should I have lined up differently? What is the best way to beat a packed midfield? Would a midfield diamond have worked better.

[wwfan]

Beating a packed midfield is tough as the extra man is invariably unmarked. You will need to use OI instructions to counter his influence, possibly by Specific Marking him with the FCd or by tight marking always. I'd also look to be exposing the opposition flanks if they don't have full backs, perhaps with high tempo, direct counter-attacking balls to the wingers or sarrowed FCs.

[John Swarbrick]

Hi wwfan, hope you know/remember me from FM-Britain!

Just one question. I have successfully took all your info along with my ideas about linking everything together (see post on FM-B) and created a very good systematic approach to making a tactic set.

I have taken this one step further and so say for an Attack tactic for the closing down instruction goes like this:

Gk = Team = 16

Fullbacks = Team - 4 = 12

DCs = Team - 4 - 4 = 8

Wingers = Team + 4 = 20

FCd = Team = 16

FCa = Team + 4 = 20

So as you can see, everything works in fours. But then when I come to the MCs, I am unsure whether to have MCa on team and MCd on team + 4, or MCa and MCd on team + 2, or MCa and MCd both on team + 0. If you look at the formation screen and just imagine a circular radius around the player 'dots', then if they weren't symmetrical, the opposition team could just walk through whichever side had the MCa on (if the MCa's closing down was lower than the MCd's). This leads me to believe that the MCd and MCa should have the same closing down, so that the imaginary circular radius is the same for both players, and the opposition could not pick out a weaker side easily.

If you were to pick a setup using my systematic approach (basically without tweaking too much) would you pick both on 16, both on 18, both on 20, one on 18 one on 16, or one on 20 on on 16? I know this may sound confusing to you, but basically I start everyones closing down from the midpoint of the mentality framework (16 in Attack) and then work round it. Assume the work rate and stamina and the other attributes you listed are the same for MCd and MCa, because I want a one size fits all no tweaking closing down setup.

Cheers mate.

[Daniele77]

Hi wwfan !

I'm following Yours suggestions in TT&F '08, but I've got a little problem...

So many times, I scored 2 goals, but I'm not capable to Kill the game...

I don't want to score more goals (I'm italian, You know...) but simply I'd like to block everything on the pitch...

I cannot make this, and everytime CPU comes up with unrealistic 2-3 !!! This is very boring, also if I try to take the control with SLOW tempo and VERY SHORT PASSING with huge WIDHT, I see my passin' percentage and ball possession dropping down miserabily...

Please did You have any suggestion ?

[crouchaldinho]

wwfan - I have learned a great deal from your theories over the last few FM releases. Keep up the fantastic work!

Personally, I prefer the satisfaction of building my own tactics and keeping my tactics simple - but I have certainly picked up a thing or two from TT&F over the last few years!

I have a few questions for you about FM08, as follows:

1) In FM07, I had huge success with defensive mentalities especially when playing as an underdog. I could pretty much sit my whole team on a very low mentality and play the frustration game. Eventually I would score or at least get a point from the game. I achieved some astonishing success using this tactic.

However, the FM08 game engine seems to react quite differently. Playing low mentality, defensive tactics from the start of a game can be suicidal. I have found it better to begin with a more balanced mentality. Yet, when 1 or 2 goals up and wishing to kill the game, switching to a very defensive mentality works very well.

With this in mind, would you say that your 'defend' tactic is more of a specialist tool for implementing towards the end of games to kill off the opposition?

2) I notice that you describe tempo as a 'flavour' setting. Personally, I have found tempo to be more important than just a stylistic tool. The manual defines tempo as the urgency with which your side will play. Therefore, I associate slower tempos with more defensive tactics where you want to keep the ball and frustrate the opposition. Contrast that to the higher tempos, which I link to more attacking tactics, where urgency is a priority and you desire to get the ball forward quickly.

There is an exception to this rule, which is when playing lesser opposition and desiring to play slow tempo probing football to tire them and build up patient attacks.

I also believe that tempo can be used as a good tool for playing against unfit opposition - I tend to adopt a higher tempo against sides when they look tired. If the opposition is looking tired from the start of the game, I consider playing with a slow tempo in order to keep the ball and tire the opposition that way.

I should also point out that I do not tie tempo with passing style although I realise that both can have an influence on each other. I tend to set up with mixed passing, either slightly shorter or slightly longer in different scenarios.

I just wondered what your opinion about this was?

Many thanks,

C.

[tarillo]

Hi wwfan. I'm a big fan of your work and I was wondering if you might be able to work out what my problem is.

I've been switching between counter and balanced at home at it works well by all accounts. My home record is good, and I would be 4th in the table based on that alone. But away from home when I use a mix of defense and counter I can't buy a win. I currently have only 1 point in 10 away games and lose badly to everyone. Everything I do seems to have no effect whatsoever. My defense falls apart and terrible players are able to find space and score easy goals. Nothing seems to be able to put any stop to this, and what bugs me is that it isn’t just a form thing, which I could deal with. One week I play well at home and win 2-0 against strong opposition. The next week I play away against the team at the bottom of the table and lose 3-1.

Right now I have virtually no control over the team and I was wondering what you think I should do?

Cheers.

[wwfan]

Sorry. Been so busy supporting the Betas had very little time to run this thread. Will try to answer the last few posts sometime tomorrow.

[tarillo]

I've just downloaded your tactics wwfan. Before I was using my own influenced from your thinking. In my first game I won 3-0 away! Fantastic. I don't know what you've done, but it works. Now I'm going to compare the two and see what I can learn.

[thezogsageordie]

I've read the opening posts and have tried to implement this into 4 tactics myself - I'll give you feedback, brilliant stuff as ever though, I was reading it and thinking how obvious this is yet so genius! Things like crossing deeper the less offensive the tactic is a prime example.

[wwfan]

Closing Down and Central Midfielders

I can appreciate the attraction in trying to get the MCs to close down sytematically, as with the mentality frameworks, but it seems to me that CD has to be set in line with player attributes. A slower, non-aggressive player will often not get to his man in time, so high CH will be a problem and having him sit in fornt of the line would be more preferable. However, a quick thug can CD at maximum all day if he has the fitness. However, in general I find it beneficial to have the MCa closing down higher than the MCd. If the MCa misses the tackle, the MCD is still in the cover position. So, I answer to your question I would probably look at 16 (MCa), 12 (MCd).

@ Daniele77: Try a narrower formation when trying to see out the match, and keep the FBs back (no FWRs). Increase time wasting and reduce TBs (so hardly anyone is playing them). That should help you keep the ball towards the end of a game.

@ crouchaldinho: Defend has only ever really been a 'see out the match' or 'I'm at 50-1 to win' strategy. Counter, however, should get you lots of away wins and I tend to use it in preference to Defend to see out any match in which I am not a total underdog.

Tempo can be used in the following ways:

1: Play aggressive, English style-attacking football (fast & attacking mentality)

2: Play on the break (fast & defensive mentality)

3: Play a controlled, pateint, Continental-style build game game (slow & attacking mentality)

4: Play keep ball (slow & defensive mentality)

Switching the sliders around can really help you impose a style of play depending on the match situation. So it is stylistic, but very important when looking at a tactic holistically.

@ tarillo: I would check CD (should be lowish except for wingers and one FC), tackling (generally light), marking (tight) and TTBs (rare for most players). Also timewasting (high-normal). If you are struggling away try to reduce them until you begin to see an improvement.

[crouchaldinho]

WWFan - thank you for the reply.

What you have done here is fantastic - it is great for getting people started and increasing their awareness of how the match engine works. It is also great for people who like building their own tactics because they can learn something new here and implement it in their own way.

I was quite interested to see that you recommend sticking with the attacking tactic when the odds are close at home or when playing as a firm favourite away from home. In these situations, I have normally been cautious and played a balanced system, particularly being afraid to use a very attacking tactic in an away game. However, after some experimentation, I have change to more a attacking style when playing in these kind of games with very positive results. Where previously I occasionally failed to finish off the game, now I am creating clearer chances for my forwards and finishing games off. This is at no expense to my defensive record.

I understand your point about the Defend tactic. In FM07, as an underdog, I played with a tactic that was very defensive and had extraordinary success with it. In the latest incarnation of the game, it appears that sitting too deep and playing with too low a mentality from the start can result in the opposition creating chance after chance and pounding your side into the ground!

Anyway, great work WWFan !

C.

[mattbuck]

Hi WWF. Great thread, i have a question for you.

I have created a few sets of tactics after reading this thread. All based around a 4-5-1 with no arrows. Every tactic is working well thus far, except counter.

Whenever i play a side playing counter attack, they seem to have a lot of possession and a decent amount of chances. When i play counter attack away from home and against better or slightly better opposition i get dominated, and have maybe one or two shots all game.

Any pointers?

[wwfan]

Specific and/or tight marking their defensive players should force possession, plus higher CD. You can experiment with raising the d-line and CD until the MCs begin to challenge their MCs well inside their half.

When playing counter yourself, you should be able to achieve good possession too. Experiment with the d-line and tempo to try and keep deepish possession but be ready to flood forward when the chance opens up.

[ambi]

I understand when to implement the different tactics, it all depends on the line-up, the odds etc.

But what is the difference between attack and control? In FM2007, control was used, if I remember correctly, against a flat 4-4-2 that used heavy closing down. Against top-teams that were heavily the favourites, the cpu would often use this when going down 1-0.

How does this tactic work in FM2008?

[boowman]

Hello wwfan!

Thanks for your lovely work on TT&F08! Im a big fan of your tactics since the first time you published it, and has had great success with it.

But now in FM08 im really struggeling, getting b*tt *****d each other game. Working a full time job as a doctor has made it impossible for me to spend hours analyzing tactics, so now im turing to the guru himself, wwfan, right away!

Playing as Leyton Orient now my third season; using the tactict you uploded, first season almost went down finishing 20th, second season had a good midseason winning 100 in a row made me end 10th. The third season, 10 games played, 4 points... Using GenieScout has made me able to pick up some good talents and according to the geniescout i should have the best "rating and pot rating" So im wondering, why am i not winning? It makes me frustrated, having played the game since cm1 was released... So im not a rookie...

Some general feelings watching a game:

- Their attackers often get a opening pass in the center and has a clear shot in the box.

- If i win its often 3-4 goals difference...

- Im pretty weak in the air... But im using tall players with good antic, jump, head...

Pls help me, im about to heabutt through my lcd-screen the nex time i loose.

[wwfan]

It's difficult to tell. I didn't upload a tactic but a tactic set. How you employ the various tactics within that set is what will make you win or lose.

That you finished tenth last year should see teams playing in a pretty standard manner against you, which means you should employ Attack at home and Counter away at the the start of most matches, certainly at the start of the season. However, as you have had a bad start a lot of teams will start to see you as easy pickings which means you should be a little more conservative for a while, using Balanced at home to try and get some form. Also be very gentle in team talks and media interaction. Take the pressure off the players.

Once you have turned around your form you can then become a little tougher/more cocky in team/media modules and press onwards form there. I suggest you read The next Diaby's Communication and Psychological Warfare (links in the Tactics Bible) as I think it is this area that is likely to be causing most of your on field issues.

[boowman]

Ok! Thank you very much!

So i have to adjust the tactic-set you uploaded. Havent figured that out yet, its often been released tactics working just fine without alterations.

So whats the most crucial things to alter in the sets?

Should you:

-use a target man?

-change the way balls are fed to spec players (head/run/feet)?

-already employed settings are they "rock solid" or do they need alteration?

-change player spec tactics? "often crossing"

-should you change the tackling? ive always played hard since cm2 but now ive see you play easy tackling f.ex the centre backs?

Thank you once again, having a guru like you is amazing!

[wwfan]

In general, the defence should be pretty good, but you will need to change the attacking structure to suit your specific players. In simple terms, qucik striker with good off the ball, then play lots of TBs; tall, strong FC who's not so quick, cross ball, perhaps Target Man to feet or head, one of each then look to experiment.

Use each players attacking stats to the best of their ability whilst keeping the defenisve settings roughly as they are and you should do very well.

[footynut]

Introduction

Closing Down & Marking

Closing Down and Marking seem to work in conjunction. There is a logical pattern. Defensive formations require tight, man-marking to constantly maintain contact with the opposition attackers, leaving them as little space as possible in which to operate. As the players are already closely marked, closing down isn’t required. For more aggressive formations in which you expect to control the play then marking should be zonal and loose. In order to regain quick possession, preferably in the opposition’s half, closing down should be pretty high.

Defenders

In general, the defenders’ marking/closing down settings should be roughly as follows:

Control: All zonal/loose, FBs close down 14-16, DCs 10-12.

Attack: DCs man/loose, FBs zonal/loose; FBs close down 10-12, DCs 6-8

Balanced: DCs man/tight, FBs zonal/tight; reduce closing down

Counter: All man/tight; further reduce closing down

Defend: All man/tight; further reduce closing down

This is a great guide but I have a problem with setting your 2 centre backs to man mark amd your 2 full backs to zonal mark in a back four. How would this work? Who would the full backs hand over to?

[wwfan]

This is a great guide but I have a problem with setting your 2 centre backs to man mark amd your 2 full backs to zonal mark in a back four. How would this work? Who would the full backs hand over to?

IF you are using attack at the right times, you'll notice how withdrawn the AI wingers are. Man-marking them with the FBs is pretty useless as the FBs will either have nobody to mark or get dragged too far up the pitch and be exposed on the break. With zonal, they will pick up the wingers if they come forward rather than at all times. This allows them to support the attack primarily and only look to defend once a man is in a dangerous position.

[Cleon]

Becareful if you use man marking on your DC's against a lone striker, 9/10 he'll destroy you no matter how good your defence is.

[Maverik]

Ok, I know i posted this on the main tactics page, but me bein the bright spark i am, didnt notice this thread. To sum it up, What sort of instructions would i have to give to my fullbacks to make them 'overlapping fullbacks'? I am hoping Cleon may be able to help as i believe he posted about overlapping fb's for '07, although it appears wwfan knows his stuff so maybe he could help as well. Thanks guys

[wwfan]

It appears I know my stuff!!! Talk about damning with faint praise

Width, FB (mentality 14+) FWRs often & cross from byline, wingers HUB is how I find it works best, although there are other ways of doing it.

[footynut]

IF you are using attack at the right times, you'll notice how withdrawn the AI wingers are. Man-marking them with the FBs is pretty useless as the FBs will either have nobody to mark or get dragged too far up the pitch and be exposed on the break. With zonal, they will pick up the wingers if they come forward rather than at all times. This allows them to support the attack primarily and only look to defend once a man is in a dangerous position.

I'll take a look at that but what happens in the situation where an opposing winger being tracked by your full back is running along your back four? When the winger moves out of the full backs zone what does he do? Who is going to pick him up now as the centre backs have been asked to man mark?

I'm going to watch a nd see what happens in the game but in real life there is no way that you would have your centre backs man marking and your full backs zonal marking with a back four.

[Justified]

Sometimes you just have to step back and accept that this is a game and sometimes things don't work as they would IRL. Of course a back four in a 4-4-2 should be zonal. If any team was to man mark with two CD's I would say they should go for a back three with attack wingbacks.

[footynut]

Sometimes you just have to step back and accept that this is a game and sometimes things don't work as they would IRL. Of course a back four in a 4-4-2 should be zonal. If any team was to man mark with two CD's I would say they should go for a back three with attack wingbacks.

I'm not saying that the back four in a 4-4-2 has to be zonal, but that they have to all choose to mark either zonally or man for man and not a mix of both.

Like you said, you have to accept that this is a game and things don't work as they do in real life.

[Justified]

wwfan//

Have got an idea which I'm wondering if you could ponder your thoughts about. I'm all for RoO because of it's cover by cover nature. It is very realistic approach and does hold good water. However my eyes caught the FFM thread by rashidi and after reading countless posts (5-6 pages I forget) I couldn't help but feel that most players defences these days consist of lower mentalities but still having rather high mentalities for attackers.

So I thought about it. What if you keep a standard mentality setting for the back four in a zonal system like 7 - 4 - 2 - 7 (DL-DC-DC-DR to create the good old Nike Tick defence) and the MCd on about 7-8 but keep the remaining mentalities as they are and only tinker with D-line seeing as it's both an offensive an defensive weapon.

So for attack for example you could have -

D-Line = 16

GK - DR - DC - DC - DL - MR - MCa - MCd - ML - FCd - FCa

13 - 7 - 2 - 4 - 7 - 17 - 18 - 7 - 17 - 14 - 19

I know looking at it you would think "jesus christ look at the split" but if you have a D-line of 16 surely you'd be compacting space despite low mentalities in the D-line? Plus you do have the MCd as an outlet because he does have a lower mentality. I will do some testing but would like your thoughts around it

[Maverik]

It appears I know my stuff!!! Talk about damning with faint praise

Width, FB (mentality 14+) FWRs often & cross from byline, wingers HUB is how I find it works best, although there are other ways of doing it.

Didnt mean any disrespect by that mate, Just tryin to point out that you know what your talkin about and could 'hopefully' help me. I have been tinkering with my formation and settings but as of yet, have seen no results with regards to my overlapping fullbacks

[wwfan]

wwfan//

Have got an idea which I'm wondering if you could ponder your thoughts about. I'm all for RoO because of it's cover by cover nature. It is very realistic approach and does hold good water. However my eyes caught the FFM thread by rashidi and after reading countless posts (5-6 pages I forget) I couldn't help but feel that most players defences these days consist of lower mentalities but still having rather high mentalities for attackers.

So I thought about it. What if you keep a standard mentality setting for the back four in a zonal system like 7 - 4 - 2 - 7 (DL-DC-DC-DR to create the good old Nike Tick defence) and the MCd on about 7-8 but keep the remaining mentalities as they are and only tinker with D-line seeing as it's both an offensive an defensive weapon.

So for attack for example you could have -

D-Line = 16

GK - DR - DC - DC - DL - MR - MCa - MCd - ML - FCd - FCa

13 - 7 - 2 - 4 - 7 - 17 - 18 - 7 - 17 - 14 - 19

I know looking at it you would think "jesus christ look at the split" but if you have a D-line of 16 surely you'd be compacting space despite low mentalities in the D-line? Plus you do have the MCd as an outlet because he does have a lower mentality. I will do some testing but would like your thoughts around it

I think it would work fine. A lot of the FML default tactics are similar to that type of mentality set up. I still prefer the more unit based style I employ, but it seems a very effective type of set up.

@ Maverik: I was only joking Have you tried the settings I suggested?

[Justified]

What an anti-climax. I'm a bit disappointed with that answer because I thought you were going to blow me out of the water with an input which would shoot my theory down. I have been putting it to the test though. I started a new game with West Ham (if Garry from FMB see's this I'm sure I caught his attention now) and so far it looks promising. Only created a balance tactic so far (seems to be the way to go in pre-season unless being a very heavy underdog) and only thing I've really had to regulate is the d-line from match to match. If they sit too deep, raise, if the fullbacks close down too early or too much tracking back from defenders then I deepen it.

If anyone is intrested the set up is atm -

D-Line - 11

GK - DR - DC - DC - DL - MR - MCa - MCd - ML - FCd - FCa

9-7-2-4-7-13-14-7-13-10-17

Bumped up the FCa quite a bit with semi targetman set up with run onto ball's seeing as I have both Zamora and Bellamy who are pacy. The Nike defence set-up so far has seen some brilliant stopper-sweeper moments. Can't wait to see the tactic fair in the Premiership.

[Maverik]

@ Maverik: I was only joking Have you tried the settings I suggested?

Have tried the settings but it doesnt appear to be working to the desired effect. May have somethin to do with who im playin though. Atm, its Finnan and Arbeloa as fbs and Babel and Benayoun as wingers. I know most people would say 'buy so and so' or ' x playes better there' but i thought i would give the guys i have a decent run 1st and i always blitz my backroom staff 1st anyway

[jtwhitt]

What I want to know is how to stop the 4-2-4....I mean, I just lost a three goal lead in the span of six minutes.

[Rio_V]

What I want to know is how to stop the 4-2-4....I mean, I just lost a three goal lead in the span of six minutes.

One thing you should always do when the AI changes to 424 is tight mark the two MCs and close down always on the DL/R b/c those are the only places the ball is coming from. Also, don't be afraid to play the ball down both flanks as there will be lots of space there.

[wwfan]

One thing you should always do when the AI changes to 424 is tight mark the two MCs and close down always on the DL/R b/c those are the only places the ball is coming from. Also, don't be afraid to play the ball down both flanks as there will be lots of space there.

Pretty much word perfect.

[Maverik]

@ Maverik: I was only joking Have you tried the settings I suggested?

Tried the settinds mate but i have tried it on a 4-1-3-2 instead and the amount of crosses Insua and Degen are getting in is unreal! I have however, opted for 2 new fbs with better pace and crossing but hey, It works so..... Thanks mate. Your help was greatly appreciated

[Rio_V]

wwfan:

I have been employing 442 Attack/Balance/Counter setup with two fast strikers.

They seem to be working pretty well.

Here is my setup for them in the Attack version. So, the most extreme set offensively.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9599/fasttmjr3.png

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9074/faststrikerez3.png

(Sorry for the poor cut and paste, I am really awful with paint program)

Normally, I have the two players swap positions.

The Balance and the counter versions are just slight tweaks (usually lower) on things like Mentality, Passing, CD, etc.

Delivery is set to feet and ball is played mixed on all three. I remove HB for the Counter.

Just wondering if you think I am getting the most out of a very fast pairing with this setup.

(One of the reasons why I ask this is that I love the post from FM Britain linked in your opening post on TMs, but I find that it is not necessarily layed out fully, or at least I have trouble following some of it. Maybe that thread can be redone at some point to make it clearer?)

[wwfan]

There's a revised TM thread in the FM-B tactical bible. I'll not link to it as it is a members only section and SI forum rules prohibit my doing so. I'm sure you can find it though. A a quick thought, if both are quick I think you should probably be looking for Run onto Ball supply plus FWRs often/mixed for all tactical flavours.

[Rio_V]

There's a revised TM thread in the FM-B tactical bible. I'll not link to it as it is a members only section and SI forum rules prohibit my doing so. I'm sure you can find it though. A a quick thought, if both are quick I think you should probably be looking for Run onto Ball supply plus FWRs often/mixed for all tactical flavours.

Thank you. I will look for it.

Also, just to clarify, you would not only suggest that the fast tm have fwd runs set to mixed or even often, you would suggest that all three tactics in the set play the tm to "run on to ball?"

If yes, I was always under the impression that "run onto ball" was primarily a defensive maneuver. I wouldn't think of using it for the Attack version and would love any insight into why instead of "to feet."

As always, thank you.

[wwfan]

I would be looking to use it to the more advanced player (as TM), rather than the deeper lying one. The reason for using it would be to build possession in the final third prior to looking for a TB through the d-line for the FCs to run on to. When it works it will create a great chance as the FC should be able to touch and shoot before the defenders can react. However, and there's always a however, it may struggle against very deep d-lines. Against seriously defensive formations, I would actually advise dropping the TM altogether as it limits the variety of attack. I'd be looking to play wide with 2-3 free roles plus a fair amount of CF and overlapping FBs in this situation (although with Yeovil you might not have the player quality). This should stretch the defence widthways, compensating for the difficulty in getting through the middle. You then make sure the crosses are aimed at the best header.

[John Swarbrick]

wwfan, do you agree with me that when playing against the AI when they have a really defensive formation like the 4-1-4-1 that they get far too much possession than they should? They seem to just knock the ball around endlessly round the defensive players. Any way of countering this when using Control? Will it be fixed for FML and FM09?

[John Swarbrick]

Oh and do you think now that arrows have been removed, tactics like Attack and Control without the long farrows will work on FM08? And just rely on the forward runs and high mentality to 'do the work', or will it not be 'attacking' enough on FM08? When you have no farrows at all on the fullbacks and forward runs often and cross byline they still manage to do a good job.

[wwfan]

Post 1: Yes, I do agree and have complained about it in the past. Possible to stop using specific marking instructions

Post 2: It is intended to work in roughly the same manner. In FML I tend to use Balanced, but that is because every body else is so attacking. I can't see any reasons why it should change.