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Are Trequartistas Pointless?


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Nothing in the opponent box : you might want to uncheck "work ball into box" :D

Your heatmap basically shows your team spent quite all the time passing the ball around the box. Your AF seems isolated and is getting no support either from CM, or from your Treq.

 

 

 

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I wouldn't be concerned about that, as it's showing your possession - you're never really spending that much time in the opposition box whilst in possession for it to register. Chances are if you are in possession in the opposition box you're about to attempt to  finish. Here's a couple of examples though (one with a blown out scoreline to solidify the point). 

image.thumb.png.f63f74415b343a087dbcb9fa75d38bc9.png

image.thumb.png.ab32e699ff9d49bf6ad11a97d1e92dc4.png

 

Player movement, passing combinations and other tools may be better suited to providing you with the sort of information to determine how well players are linking together. I am a novice with them though, so grain of salt.

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On 22/09/2020 at 16:22, Keyzer Soze said:

And what about the forward role? 

Should it be a attacking duty, like a DLF(a) or even a PF(a) or a AF(a), or someone with a support duty? 

What worked best for me - and please keep in mind I played 3 strikers rather than IF - ST - TQ - was to have them like this:

AF(A)   DLF (S)   TQ(A)

The AF ran the channel between the DL/WBL and DC which a) created headaches for any team who had their FB pushing forward and b) meant he often found himself in a mismatch at the back post when jumping/competing for a cross. I had Esposito, Lukaku or Dusan Vlahovic play there - and all 3 are basically Target Men in terms of physical profile (it's 2023 in my save) - so that worked for me. Like putting Shaq in the post versus a small forward :cool:

If you were going to play a Sterling type out on the left in the IF role, I am not sure if my setup would still be the best fit. 

I'd also like to note, which I covered in my longer post, that I couldn't get the central striker of the 3 to do much of anything - despite trying almost every ST Support role in the game. I've binned this formation as a result. Not keen to have a €90m passenger!

Edited by 32MJ32
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I managed to get a lot more of Trequartistas once I stopped looking at them as playmakers that don't track back but instead players given complete freedom. Freedom to move around and even outside his position, freedom to dribble more, to try through balls, to try long balls, switching plays, to take shots from any position they feel comfortable. More than any other role in the game player attributes and PPMs will dictate how they operate, since they're allowed to do everything with no overly specific instruction. Different players might turn out to do completely different things in this role, some may be very direct whenever they get the ball dribbling towards the goal, some will be very creative and dictate the play from upfront and create chances for others, some will be looking to finish every chance they get, etc. A great one will do a bit of everything at the correct time,

As far as the pressing goes, in general they will still press if your system is set to do so and they have the attributes to do it, they just won't track back once the opponent breaks through the first line of press. But that's ok, because you want him in a good position once you recover the ball. Generally he should be someone who is above the rest of the team technically or mentally (ideally both), as he is a ball magnet and as such will be the focal point of most of your attacks.

To get some real life examples outside the obvious ones most people will think about like Messi, Neymar or Hazard type of player, someone like Ibrahimovic would be a Trequartista in my mind. Even CR7 in some cases. A wild one maybe, but Thomas Müller's position in Flick's Bayern is closest emulated by the Treq in game.

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Yeah, I will admit my experiences with the wide TQ this season has reshaped my perception of the role more in line with your assessment. Come end of September, mine had already bagged in double digits in goals but only a singular assist. Which was easy to see why from watching the games. I let the assman take charge for the rest of the season and I've no idea what he did with the team during the team but the player playing the Wide TQ role's form completely dropped off. 

It's definitely effective, especially if your system is designed to utilise it properly. I did have a specific use or hope there of for it which didn't pan out though.

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  • 6 months later...

Whats the best surrounding setup for an AMC Treq? Flat 4-4-1-1 with a support role striker? What role is ideal for the striker? (most tactics use the AF(a), but assuming that isn't necessarily best with a treq AMC?)

Also is it possible to use a Treq in a two AMC, one striker setup, or is that too much crowding?

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51 minutes ago, Dundalis said:

Whats the best surrounding setup for an AMC Treq? Flat 4-4-1-1 with a support role striker? What role is ideal for the striker? (most tactics use the AF(a), but assuming that isn't necessarily best with a treq AMC?)

Also is it possible to use a Treq in a two AMC, one striker setup, or is that too much crowding?

With Trequartista it's best to give him most space possible to operate in. So a striker that pushes the opposition defensive line - someone like PF on attack duty or AF. Then a winger on one side and IW on the other. I then would drop the two midfielders into DM strata. Assign them non-playmaker roles like Anchor and Segundo Volante. The trick is only having one playmaker in your Treq so that he gets involved in all plays.

Edited by crusadertsar
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The most success I've had with a central T(A) was with a RMD, W(A)*, F9, and true double pivot behind him in a 4231. I'm not a big fan, so that was one of the only times I've really used the formation. 

* - Easily one of the most underappreciated roles in recent years. Everyone wants inverted wingers with bombarding FB/WBs, and that can work, but there are other paths forward, especially if you're wanting to use someone in a #10 role. 

Edited by XuluBak
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18 hours ago, Dundalis said:

Whats the best surrounding setup for an AMC Treq? Flat 4-4-1-1 with a support role striker? What role is ideal for the striker? (most tactics use the AF(a), but assuming that isn't necessarily best with a treq AMC?)

Also is it possible to use a Treq in a two AMC, one striker setup, or is that too much crowding?

Honestly in a flat 4-4-1-1 I'd be partial to having the TREQ up front rather than CAM (think Totti when he lead the line for Roma).

Of course, if you really want the TREQ in the CAM slot then definitely go with CrusaderStar's suggestions. You could also make use of a CF(s) as well but that would depend on how aggressive your wide men are.

Edited by NotSoSpecialOne
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48 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

The most success I've had with a central T(A) was with a RMD, W(A)*, F9, and true double pivot behind him in a 4231. I'm not a big fan, so that was one of the only times I've really used the formation. 

* - Easily one of the most underappreciated roles in recent years. Everyone wants inverted wingers with bombarding FB/WBs, and that can work, but there are other paths forward, especially if you're wanting to use someone in a #10 role. 

I was gonna say, having two mids in the DM positioning seems rather defensive minded and giving a huge space for the treq. I feel like a AMC treq works better in a flat 4-4-1-1, but Im trying to figure out best way to accommodate it into a 4-2-3-1.

13 minutes ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Honestly in a flat 4-4-1-1 I'd be partial to having the TREQ up front rather than CAM (think Totti when he lead the line for Roma).

Of course, if you really want the TREQ in the CAM slot then definitely go with CrusaderStar's suggestions. You could also make use of a CF(s) as well but that would depend on how aggressive your wide men are.

Does the treq really need that much space to have two centre mids in the DM positions? I currently am playing a 4-2-3-1 with a DLP and BBM on support in centre mid, an IW and IF on the wings and AF up front. I've tried AM and SS for my AMC and overall my tactic works just fine, I'm just looking to feature my AMC more since he's somewhat of a bit part player in my team, when he's attribute wise my best player.

I guess It's more about what roles to make the players around to accommodate him as well as possible without completely changing the tactic, it sounds like the Treq is the most high maintenance role to build around lol, but it seems like it's also by far the best role to feature a very good number 10.

Edited by Dundalis
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@Dundalis

I don't think either of us were suggesting that two mids behind the Treq should be in the DM strata. Mine weren't. They just weren't "runners," forming a double pivot (specific roles were player/matchup dependent), and allowing the Treq space to operate. 

I wouldn't say they're "high maintenance." All roles work best under certain circumstances, Treqs need space to maximize their effectiveness, which kinda goes against the modern trend of IF/IW with bombarding FBs. 

Edited by XuluBak
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6 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

@Dundalis

I don't think either of us were suggesting that two mids behind the Treq should be in the DM strata. Mine weren't. They just weren't "runners," forming a double pivot (specific roles were player/matchup dependent), and allowing the Treq space to operate. 

I wouldn't say they're "high maintenance." All roles work best under certain circumstances, Treqs need space to maximize their effectiveness, which kinda goes against the modern trend of IF/IW with bombarding FBs. 

crusadertsar was and the post above mentioned to go with his suggestion. TBH, space is the most precious commodity on the pitch, from what im reading about Treq's it seems like no other role needs the same amount of space as this role.

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Sorry, to clarify, I meant in so far as the striker suggestions were concerned.

CAM-TREQ can work whether the double pivot is in the DM or CM strata. Really, it just depends on the overall tactic - they can even work well in systems that aren't necessarily maximising their space. 

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14 minutes ago, Dundalis said:

crusadertsar was and the post above mentioned to go with his suggestion. TBH, space is the most precious commodity on the pitch, from what im reading about Treq's it seems like no other role needs the same amount of space as this role.

Tbf, most/all creative/playmaking roles need space. That's not unique to Treqs or #10s in general, but the modern trend of inverted wings goes agaist that, so not surprising that #10s are becoming less prevalent in the modern game. 

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47 minutes ago, Dundalis said:

I was gonna say, having two mids in the DM positioning seems rather defensive minded and giving a huge space for the treq. I feel like a AMC treq works better in a flat 4-4-1-1, but Im trying to figure out best way to accommodate it into a 4-2-3-1.

Does the treq really need that much space to have two centre mids in the DM positions? I currently am playing a 4-2-3-1 with a DLP and BBM on support in centre mid, an IW and IF on the wings and AF up front. I've tried AM and SS for my AMC and overall my tactic works just fine, I'm just looking to feature my AMC more since he's somewhat of a bit part player in my team, when he's attribute wise my best player.

I guess It's more about what roles to make the players around to accommodate him as well as possible without completely changing the tactic, it sounds like the Treq is the most high maintenance role to build around lol, but it seems like it's also by far the best role to feature a very good number 10.

Exactly as @XuluBak said. When I set up any 4-2-3-1 I can never play with anything other than a double pivot in midfield. Could be either in CM or DM strata. That's not an issue. What is important however is making sure that both roles have "hold position" selected. Whatever their roles are. So there are a few different combinations you can go here. Recently I have been running with CM (S) with added hold position and DLP(s). This way I have one with more creative freedom. Both players have to have good defensive attributes because in a 4-2-3-1 they are your only real shield in front of the defence. It's a very attacking formation. And ideally you want to give your 3 advanced midfielders more freedom in attack. While the striker can be more of a strong hold up type player in the style of Slimani at Olympique Lyonnais.

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And it's not just the space for your Treq bur also the left and right wingers you need to worry about. In my ideal 4-2-3-1 three of them should be able to work very well in concert. And have plenty of acceleration and bags of pace along with the important attacking mental attributes such as off the ball and anticipation. In order to really take advantage of the space opened up by your central striker dropping deep and holding up the ball and the wingbacks/fullbacks stretching the wings.

So @XuluBaksuggestion of Raumdeuter, Treq and Winger (especially if he can cut inside once he is high up) can work really well. But it requires a lot of defensive solidity in the midfield. As well as good creativity and passing ability.

 

 

Edited by crusadertsar
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So to add to the above, roles  like BBM, RPM or Mezzala wouldn't be my choice for 4-2-3-1 midfield, even if managing world-class clubs. None of them can have hold position PI and will leave your defence too exposed and isolated. But then I know a lot of popular plug and play tactics don't work like that. It might still work very well by overwhelming the AI but it wouldn't be my choice. I love balanced and realistic (to me at least) tactics too much.

But again it's not about the strata the midfielders are in. A pairing of Regista and SV could be very aggressive going forward, even if they start deeper.

Edited by crusadertsar
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You could always eliminate the issue of the wide players formation wise.

 

Try something like a 5-3-2, or 5-2-1-2 or 5-3-1-1.

 

With the 5-3-2, you'd utilise him as the deeper, creative striker and would have a choice of strike partner (poacher, AF etc). You'd be able to have attacking options behind him, if you have a DM triangle behind him, then you have defensive cover combined with three defenders. So that should give you some freedom to select more mobile central midfielders to support and to surge behind/around him. Thinking, CM/A's, attacking mezzala's that will attack the half space on the other side of the other striker for example. 

With the 5-3-1-1 it's the same principle, but he'll be in the AMC strata instead.

With 5-2-1-2, you'd have to tinker with a more defensive midfield set up to accommodate him  and the additional striker I reckon.

 

As a bonus, you'd be playing a formation that is probably unique for once, since everyone and their dog likes 4-2-3-1's and 4-3-3's and 4-4-flipping-2! :P

 

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25 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

You could always eliminate the issue of the wide players formation wise.

 

Try something like a 5-3-2, or 5-2-1-2 or 5-3-1-1.

 

With the 5-3-2, you'd utilise him as the deeper, creative striker and would have a choice of strike partner (poacher, AF etc). You'd be able to have attacking options behind him, if you have a DM triangle behind him, then you have defensive cover combined with three defenders. So that should give you some freedom to select more mobile central midfielders to support and to surge behind/around him. Thinking, CM/A's, attacking mezzala's that will attack the half space on the other side of the other striker for example. 

With the 5-3-1-1 it's the same principle, but he'll be in the AMC strata instead.

With 5-2-1-2, you'd have to tinker with a more defensive midfield set up to accommodate him  and the additional striker I reckon.

 

As a bonus, you'd be playing a formation that is probably unique for once, since everyone and their dog likes 4-2-3-1's and 4-3-3's and 4-4-flipping-2! :P

 

lol I love number 10's and I always end up buying the best number 10's I can find in FM without even realising it (got Yusuf Demir and Thiago Almada in current save who both have ridiculous number 10 attributes for their age even if they can also play wing). I'm kinda playing a plug and play 4-2-3-1 in my first two seasons just till I get the finances and personnel sorted, plus this is the first FM I've played since like FM16, so a lot has changed.

I only ever play a back 5 on occasion very early in my saves depending on the squad when I don't have my team built. But after 2-3 seasons I always end up having bought lots of good attacking players, so leaving out one of my talented mids or forwards for a third centre back just never sits well with me. I would def want to try a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond formation, I'm not seeing as many of those tactics around as I would have thought. I kinda wanna see if I can create an effective tertiary tactic that uses a narrow 4-2-3-1 with 3 AMC's. Or some combination that accommodates two AMC's and two strikers as weird as that sounds.

Edited by Dundalis
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3 hours ago, Dundalis said:

I was gonna say, having two mids in the DM positioning seems rather defensive minded and giving a huge space for the treq. I feel like a AMC treq works better in a flat 4-4-1-1, but Im trying to figure out best way to accommodate it into a 4-2-3-1.

Does the treq really need that much space to have two centre mids in the DM positions? I currently am playing a 4-2-3-1 with a DLP and BBM on support in centre mid, an IW and IF on the wings and AF up front. I've tried AM and SS for my AMC and overall my tactic works just fine, I'm just looking to feature my AMC more since he's somewhat of a bit part player in my team, when he's attribute wise my best player.

I guess It's more about what roles to make the players around to accommodate him as well as possible without completely changing the tactic, it sounds like the Treq is the most high maintenance role to build around lol, but it seems like it's also by far the best role to feature a very good number 10.

I use a similar system to yours and it's been absolutely fine for me. There isn't a fixed rule that means certain roles and duties can't work together etc, it just depends on what you want to do yourself. This season my Treq at AMC doesn't have many assists, but he's my top goalscorer which is nice. He's absolutely my top performer but then again he is Bruno Fernandes who is absolutely insane in this game.

Edited by Gee_Simpson
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3 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

I use a similar system to yours and it's been absolutely fine for me. There isn't a fixed rule that means certain roles and duties can't work together etc, it just depends on what you want to do yourself. This season my Treq at AMC doesn't have many assists, but he's my top goalscorer which is nice. He's absolutely my top performer but then again he is Bruno Fernandes who is absolutely insane in this game.

Yeah but I have tried tactics that work well as a whole, but for some reason don't get the most out of the AMC position, regardless of the quality of the player there. What roles are the players around your treq in your system? Almost all tactics I've seen posted with Treq's at AMC have players around the position in roles that basically have them stay the hell away from the Treq's zone lol, so wingers that stay wide, mids that don't push forward much, and strikers that push the defensive line.

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13 minutes ago, Dundalis said:

Yeah but I have tried tactics that work well as a whole, but for some reason don't get the most out of the AMC position, regardless of the quality of the player there. What roles are the players around your treq in your system? Almost all tactics I've seen posted with Treq's at AMC have players around the position in roles that basically have them stay the hell away from the Treq's zone lol, so wingers that stay wide, mids that don't push forward much, and strikers that push the defensive line.

PF (A)

IW (S) TREQ (A) IW (S)

DLP (S) RPM (S)

WB (S) CD (D) BPD (D) FB (S) (Overlap)

Those are my roles and duties, kind of goes against the views in here, I know :D

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2 hours ago, Dundalis said:

lol I love number 10's and I always end up buying the best number 10's I can find in FM without even realising it (got Yusuf Demir and Thiago Almada in current save who both have ridiculous number 10 attributes for their age even if they can also play wing). I'm kinda playing a plug and play 4-2-3-1 in my first two seasons just till I get the finances and personnel sorted, plus this is the first FM I've played since like FM16, so a lot has changed.

I only ever play a back 5 on occasion very early in my saves depending on the squad when I don't have my team built. But after 2-3 seasons I always end up having bought lots of good attacking players, so leaving out one of my talented mids or forwards for a third centre back just never sits well with me. I would def want to try a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond formation, I'm not seeing as many of those tactics around as I would have thought. I kinda wanna see if I can create an effective tertiary tactic that uses a narrow 4-2-3-1 with 3 AMC's. Or some combination that accommodates two AMC's and two strikers as weird as that sounds.

Yeah I seldom use 5 at the back, last time I did was when Van Gaal managed United I think, back when there was a phase of teams trying out 3ATB. I get tired of the formation mainly because I love wide players like IF's and wingers, even if I don't get them working half the time.

In reply to your other comment, I had a Treq as a lone striker once in a 4-5-1, all the way back in 2015/16 I think. He was only supported by a generic triple CM midfield, CM/S/D/A, with the left WM/A acting as a false IF, and a winger on the right. I picked that role because I was playing Aston Villa I think, and I nabbed for £5 million some absolutely nonsense creative striker who fit the bill for the Treq role. He made us a one man team. Don't think I'd do it again, but it was a fun save because he was just a diamond of a player.

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52 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

PF (A)

IW (S) TREQ (A) IW (S)

DLP (S) RPM (S)

WB (S) CD (D) BPD (D) FB (S) (Overlap)

Those are my roles and duties, kind of goes against the views in here, I know :D

Yep kinda, although the IW certainly stay wider than IF's which people seem to like a lot. Do you tend to see high average match ratings from your mids and fwds?

I also have Eljif Elmas, Thiago Almada and Yusuf Demir, who are all freak AMC's attribute wise at their specific ages. Of course they can all play wing, but I feel like they all have more perfect AMC than wing attributes. Kinda why I wanna try a 3 AMC formation eventually to see if I can fit them all in at their best positions once they are fully developed.

19 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Yeah I seldom use 5 at the back, last time I did was when Van Gaal managed United I think, back when there was a phase of teams trying out 3ATB. I get tired of the formation mainly because I love wide players like IF's and wingers, even if I don't get them working half the time.

In reply to your other comment, I had a Treq as a lone striker once in a 4-5-1, all the way back in 2015/16 I think. He was only supported by a generic triple CM midfield, CM/S/D/A, with the left WM/A acting as a false IF, and a winger on the right. I picked that role because I was playing Aston Villa I think, and I nabbed for £5 million some absolutely nonsense creative striker who fit the bill for the Treq role. He made us a one man team. Don't think I'd do it again, but it was a fun save because he was just a diamond of a player.

I think the thing with the Treq is that a dev said apparently the role has special traits that are hidden and cannot be replicated by any other position. Which is something like focused playmaker or something that will always have the ball funnelled through them (but don't other roles have that hidden trait like the other playmaker roles??). I don't really understand why this is a hidden trait though and can't be actively designated, seems kinda silly you can't actively designate a player as the primary playmaker of your team without forced into a specific playing role.

Edited by Dundalis
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43 minutes ago, Dundalis said:

Yep kinda, although the IW certainly stay wider than IF's which people seem to like a lot. Do you tend to see high average match ratings from your mids and fwds?

Yeah that's true. Yeah I tend to get good ratings for most of the front 4, usually though one winger can perform well and the other is a little more quiet in some games, but that's to be expected sometimes. The two behind do really well. As you can see I have went for a triple playmaker system, I really wanted the focus being on those 3 combining with each other and it works really nicely for me. They dominate games which is what I wanted.

Edited by Gee_Simpson
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41 minutes ago, Dundalis said:

I think the thing with the Treq is that a dev said apparently the role has special traits that are hidden and cannot be replicated by any other position. Which is something like focused playmaker or something that will always have the ball funnelled through them (but don't other roles have that hidden trait like the other playmaker roles??). I don't really understand why this is a hidden trait though and can't be actively designated, seems kinda silly you can't actively designate a player as the primary playmaker of your team without forced into a specific playing role.

Think you misread his comment, what he said was that if you want all your play funneled through your Treq he should be the only playmaker within your squad to ensure that play is focused on him. The unique under the hood traits of the Treq are its movement, where he drifts wide far more than other playmaking roles and his tendency to go for goal compared to the AP.

As far as Treq performance goes, I feel it's a role that really depends on the player playing it. Playing a system that's my take on Bayern, with parts of Rashidi's replication mixed in, I've gotten massive performances out of Müller and taking the system to PSG I've also had Neymar become by far the best performing player in the squad as AMC. However, in my future journeyman save, while the tactic as a whole is doing great for me, the AMC is my worst performing attacking player. Looking at the players I have there for that position, they're all good players, but not the most well rounded ones, so they all lack in at least one aspect I would like them to have for the role.

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There are no absolutes. No one was saying you have to create tons of space for a Treq, but that maximizes their potential as both a goal scorer and creative outlet (and generally, #10s are going to be most effective if they have space to operate). I'd also say that some players are so good they almost supercede tactics. Last year, I experimented with Barca to see what Messi could do as a Treq. It was so ridiculous I only played one match. 

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11 hours ago, XuluBak said:

There are no absolutes. No one was saying you have to create tons of space for a Treq, but that maximizes their potential as both a goal scorer and creative outlet (and generally, #10s are going to be most effective if they have space to operate). I'd also say that some players are so good they almost supercede tactics. Last year, I experimented with Barca to see what Messi could do as a Treq. It was so ridiculous I only played one match. 

I realise that, but I feel like if you are going to actually use a Treq, it's kinda pointless unless your aim is to max their abilities, otherwise you are prob better off playing a more supportive AMC role, because the point of a Treq is that they are a lone ranger in attack essentially the "free role" which you used to be able to select in older FM's (and you could give it to anyone in your team without having to set them into some specific positional role). I don't see any other role in the game that gives a player as much freedom to do whatever the hell they want than this one, could be wrong.

Also I've tried playing world class AMC's in the role in non world class teams (since I figure playing as Barca or any team with world class talent across the board, tactics just matter less) and seen ratings that are clearly suppressed, where inferior players do equivalent or even a bit better. To me it feels like you can have a good tactic where your team overachieves and wins a lot yet due to the way roles are setup in your team your best players can have middling stats relative to his talent, while other average players can have exceptional stats and rating relative to theirs. Means nothing essentially wrong with the tactic itself, but there's something with the way it's set up that isn't maxing out your players abilities. Of course then you play with it and maybe start getting certain players playing more to their abilities but overall the tactic becomes less effective lol. So might not be absolutes, but there is for sure rules of thumb everywhere from what I can see if you actually wants something that works really well, that is if you don't simply start the game with a team that has all the best players, which you can pretty much dominate with a preset tactic.

Edited by Dundalis
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11 hours ago, Freakiie said:

Think you misread his comment, what he said was that if you want all your play funneled through your Treq he should be the only playmaker within your squad to ensure that play is focused on him. The unique under the hood traits of the Treq are its movement, where he drifts wide far more than other playmaking roles and his tendency to go for goal compared to the AP.

As far as Treq performance goes, I feel it's a role that really depends on the player playing it. Playing a system that's my take on Bayern, with parts of Rashidi's replication mixed in, I've gotten massive performances out of Müller and taking the system to PSG I've also had Neymar become by far the best performing player in the squad as AMC. However, in my future journeyman save, while the tactic as a whole is doing great for me, the AMC is my worst performing attacking player. Looking at the players I have there for that position, they're all good players, but not the most well rounded ones, so they all lack in at least one aspect I would like them to have for the role.

I feel like I found a website that detailed every role in the game, but not just the visible traits, also the under the hood invisible ones you can't see or change. Can't find it now.

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On 17/04/2021 at 07:16, Dundalis said:

I feel like I found a website that detailed every role in the game, but not just the visible traits, also the under the hood invisible ones you can't see or change. Can't find it now.

Come on man. Please search for it 

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