Advice for My Tactic

[Patfan1991]

Hi, 

Been playing for a long time but looking to get better. I'll post my tactic here and you can let me know what I can do to improve it. My team is pretty inconsistent and I'm looking to find ways to achieve some balance with this formation, 

 

Thanks 

 

Please disregard this image, it is outdated as I have revised it due to great advice from everyone. See my latest post for the updated tactic

Edited June 14, 2020 by Patfan1991

[Prepper_Jack]

Well, it's a little difficult without knowing all the settings, and what all the players are capable of, but I'll point out a couple potential issues.

The first is that I see you have an overlap on the left, when you have a defending fullback in the rear, and a supporter on the front. The defending fullback generally won't get that high up the field - at least until quite late in the play, where the zone is crawling with defenders and your winger is disposessed. If you use overlaps, you want to use a supporting wingback or fullback at a minimum. Preferably it should be attacking, which get much further forward. This should give you more frequent overlaps. If that fullback is poor at crossing, keep him as a defender, and consider making the left winger go on attack, and don't attempt overlaps. Overlapping would be appropriate on the right if that fullback was decent.

I notice that you have the instruction "focus play through the middle". This is a little rough because you have a supporting DLP and a defensive CD. By default, their instructions are to hold position, and they will not move up enough to support the play into the box with any real effectiveness. It's not a bad idea to have a player designated to defending that area of the pitch of course, though I personally prefer two supporting players of different varieties in central midfield, or a support and attack. A basic supporting and attacking CM duo generally works well enough, given they have decent acceleration, pace, and tackling. I often go with a box to box (support) and an advanced playmaker (attack), or a ball winning midfielder (support) and advanced playmaker (attack). Sometimes an attacking mezzala. That's more for a positive to attacking stance, though. If you like your balanced philosophy, a couple carilleros might suffice. They're a relatively neutral option that doesn't roam excessively, enable a decent midfield defense, and link your defense to the forward areas well enough without much fuss.

But, generally it seems like you're just focusing play through that one DLP, and judging by his coloration he may be kind of mediocre - and that's a position you really want to be very competent. If you're playing a direct game, it could be effective at times, but it's too easy to lock him down, thereby nullifying your entire offense. Consider opening up play to the wings as well as the midfield, and let your wings do their work. You might find your midfield does better when they're not the continuous center of attention, and the game becomes more free flowing and dynamic.

[Experienced Defender]

12 hours ago, Patfan1991 said:

 

12 hours ago, Patfan1991 said:

I'll post my tactic here and you can let me know what I can do to improve it. My team is pretty inconsistent and I'm looking to find ways to achieve some balance with this formation

For starters, do you have an idea of what style of football you want to play with this Vanarama side? 

I mean, I can tell you how to make this tactic better balanced overall, but what matters is context. That's why I am asking about the style of play.

[Patfan1991]

On 11/06/2020 at 01:06, Prepper_Jack said:

Well, it's a little difficult without knowing all the settings, and what all the players are capable of, but I'll point out a couple potential issues.

The first is that I see you have an overlap on the left, when you have a defending fullback in the rear, and a supporter on the front. The defending fullback generally won't get that high up the field - at least until quite late in the play, where the zone is crawling with defenders and your winger is disposessed. If you use overlaps, you want to use a supporting wingback or fullback at a minimum. Preferably it should be attacking, which get much further forward. This should give you more frequent overlaps. If that fullback is poor at crossing, keep him as a defender, and consider making the left winger go on attack, and don't attempt overlaps. Overlapping would be appropriate on the right if that fullback was decent.

I notice that you have the instruction "focus play through the middle". This is a little rough because you have a supporting DLP and a defensive CD. By default, their instructions are to hold position, and they will not move up enough to support the play into the box with any real effectiveness. It's not a bad idea to have a player designated to defending that area of the pitch of course, though I personally prefer two supporting players of different varieties in central midfield, or a support and attack. A basic supporting and attacking CM duo generally works well enough, given they have decent acceleration, pace, and tackling. I often go with a box to box (support) and an advanced playmaker (attack), or a ball winning midfielder (support) and advanced playmaker (attack). Sometimes an attacking mezzala. That's more for a positive to attacking stance, though. If you like your balanced philosophy, a couple carilleros might suffice. They're a relatively neutral option that doesn't roam excessively, enable a decent midfield defense, and link your defense to the forward areas well enough without much fuss.

But, generally it seems like you're just focusing play through that one DLP, and judging by his coloration he may be kind of mediocre - and that's a position you really want to be very competent. If you're playing a direct game, it could be effective at times, but it's too easy to lock him down, thereby nullifying your entire offense. Consider opening up play to the wings as well as the midfield, and let your wings do their work. You might find your midfield does better when they're not the continuous center of attention, and the game becomes more free flowing and dynamic.

Thanks for the advice, Prepper_Jack. Any other advice would be appreciated.

[Patfan1991]

On 11/06/2020 at 10:02, Experienced Defender said:

 

For starters, do you have an idea of what style of football you want to play with this Vanarama side? 

I mean, I can tell you how to make this tactic better balanced overall, but what matters is context. That's why I am asking about the style of play.

Hi, Experienced Defender

 

Ideally, I'd like to play a counter attacking but I have had mixed success with this. Honestly, I'm looking for general advice about how to improve my formation and then possibly move to a counter attacking style if possible. Unless I need to form a style first before improving the formation, I'm fine with that. Let me know if you don't understand what I mean.

[Prepper_Jack]

22 minutes ago, Patfan1991 said:

Ideally, I'd like to play a counter attacking but I have had mixed success with this. Honestly, I'm looking for general advice about how to improve my formation and then possibly move to a counter attacking style if possible. Unless I need to form a style first before improving the formation, I'm fine with that. Let me know if you don't understand what I mean.

Considering your position in the league, a counter attack style might be appropriate. However, since you're playing in a very low league I assume you have a limited payroll, and therefore limited options as to what kind of talent you might attract. Style is important, but it's also important to know what assets you have at your disposal before selecting a style.

How are your strikers? If you have a forward with very high pace, acceleration, decent first touch and dribbling, you can make probably make an effective direct counter-attack. Set your defensive line and line of engagement to lower, which will lure the opposition into your turf, opening up space behind them. If your midfield and rear line is decent at marking, consider training them in tight marking, and set individual instructions on which player should mark who. This is a catenaccio - a system that aids in intercepting, and works wonders against teams who use lots of short passes in patient or gegenpress approaches. The better the marking, the further they can get into your territory with you being relatively safe. Eventually their entire team will come down to box, while all you need is one interception to launch at your striker waiting beyond them. All he has to do is beat the opposition back to the net, and engage the keeper in a one on one. A more direct passing system is desirable for this, as is the instruction "pass into space". For engaging keepers in one-on-one situations, train him to "round the keeper". Instead of firing it stupidly at the keeper, he'll sidestep him at the last moment and fire at an empty net. Mentality for this approach should be cautious or defensive. You might not have 30-40 shots against the opposition during each match, but the chances you get will be quality. I did this with a striker who had 14 dribbling, 11 first touch, 13 acceleration and 12 pace, but 5 (5!) finishing. He scored over 40 goals that season in a league along the level of yours.

If you don't have a very fast striker option, but have generally decent passing, crossing, and tackling abilities, you might want to consider a more positive approach. What are the strengths of your team? If we got a screenshot or two of your "strengths and weaknesses" under team report, and perhaps a screenshot or two of your player skill levels, it may allow us to advise you better as to what might be the most effective approach for you to take. Even if you have a bunch of relatively mediocre players, they may have some redeeming qualities in certain areas that may allow them to demolish more powerful competition. It's a matter of using them effectively.

[Experienced Defender]

10 hours ago, Patfan1991 said:

Hi, Experienced Defender

 

Ideally, I'd like to play a counter attacking but I have had mixed success with this

The good news is that 442 as a formation suits counter-attacking football very nicely. So you just need to make some tweaks to your tactic within this 442 formation so as to make it better suited to a counter-oriented style. 

What can be a problem is that counter-attacking styles usually work when opposition are attack-minded and thus give you space to take advantage of on the counter, but that's not going to be the case in every single match even if you are considered an underdog in your league. Therefore, you'll likely need a plan-B tactic for these specific games (probably against other underdogs, especially at home). But that plan-B tactic should not be overly different from the primary (counter-attacking) one. Instead, the difference should not involve more than just a couple of tweaks. I can give you comparative examples if you want. 

10 hours ago, Patfan1991 said:

Honestly, I'm looking for general advice about how to improve my formation

Not formation, but the tactic. The formation is already suitable for a counter style (as I said above). 

 

10 hours ago, Patfan1991 said:

and then possibly move to a counter attacking style if possible. Unless I need to form a style first before improving the formation, I'm fine with that. Let me know if you don't understand what I mean

Honestly, this last quoted part is what I didn't quite understand.

[Patfan1991]

13 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

What can be a problem is that counter-attacking styles usually work when opposition are attack-minded and thus give you space to take advantage of on the counter, but that's not going to be the case in every single match even if you are considered an underdog in your league. Therefore, you'll likely need a plan-B tactic for these specific games (probably against other underdogs, especially at home). But that plan-B tactic should not be overly different from the primary (counter-attacking) one. Instead, the difference should not involve more than just a couple of tweaks. I can give you comparative examples if you want. 

 

 

 

Yes, Please

[Patfan1991]

On 12/06/2020 at 22:28, Prepper_Jack said:

Considering your position in the league, a counter attack style might be appropriate. However, since you're playing in a very low league I assume you have a limited payroll, and therefore limited options as to what kind of talent you might attract. Style is important, but it's also important to know what assets you have at your disposal before selecting a style.

How are your strikers? If you have a forward with very high pace, acceleration, decent first touch and dribbling, you can make probably make an effective direct counter-attack. Set your defensive line and line of engagement to lower, which will lure the opposition into your turf, opening up space behind them. If your midfield and rear line is decent at marking, consider training them in tight marking, and set individual instructions on which player should mark who. This is a catenaccio - a system that aids in intercepting, and works wonders against teams who use lots of short passes in patient or gegenpress approaches. The better the marking, the further they can get into your territory with you being relatively safe. Eventually their entire team will come down to box, while all you need is one interception to launch at your striker waiting beyond them. All he has to do is beat the opposition back to the net, and engage the keeper in a one on one. A more direct passing system is desirable for this, as is the instruction "pass into space". For engaging keepers in one-on-one situations, train him to "round the keeper". Instead of firing it stupidly at the keeper, he'll sidestep him at the last moment and fire at an empty net. Mentality for this approach should be cautious or defensive. You might not have 30-40 shots against the opposition during each match, but the chances you get will be quality. I did this with a striker who had 14 dribbling, 11 first touch, 13 acceleration and 12 pace, but 5 (5!) finishing. He scored over 40 goals that season in a league along the level of yours.

If you don't have a very fast striker option, but have generally decent passing, crossing, and tackling abilities, you might want to consider a more positive approach. What are the strengths of your team? If we got a screenshot or two of your "strengths and weaknesses" under team report, and perhaps a screenshot or two of your player skill levels, it may allow us to advise you better as to what might be the most effective approach for you to take. Even if you have a bunch of relatively mediocre players, they may have some redeeming qualities in certain areas that may allow them to demolish more powerful competition. It's a matter of using them effectively.

Here you go, Prepper_Jack

 

The player is my DLP

[Rashidi]

On 11/06/2020 at 09:25, Patfan1991 said:

Hi, 

Been playing for a long time but looking to get better. I'll post my tactic here and you can let me know what I can do to improve it. My team is pretty inconsistent and I'm looking to find ways to achieve some balance with this formation, 

 

Thanks 

Basically you have a Winger on support on the left flank, who will try and drop in crosses supported by a DLP(S) who will hold his position, so you don't really have many options. To be effective you need to control midfield, and only then will you see successful overlaps down the left. Not sure who you have the keeper specifically sending the ball to, but I would recommend telling both the FB and the W to cross to the far post. And I would change the role from a poacher to either an AF, or a TM. An AF would suit a more counter attacking style but he will mostly go it alone. Or you can use a TM(A) which would make the transitions easier.

Just noticed its a FB(D) so you won't get transitions involving him, unless his passing is really simplified, you could also change one of the CDs preferably the one on the right to a NCD or BPD, that way he could seek out players with longer passes for quick turnovers.

[Prepper_Jack]

7 hours ago, Patfan1991 said:

Here you go, Prepper_Jack

 

The player is my DLP

I see. Looks like you're in a rough spot all around with the players, who don't have a great ability to either mount a solid defense or a good assault. At least according to the game. The team comparison is a bit disheartening, essentially saying you have a good goalkeeper and the players have strong teamwork, but everywhere else you're fairly well outgunned. The one ray of sunshine I can see is that you have a decent amount of payroll available to you, and it may well be time to shake the place up a bit with some fresh talent, and letting some of the dead weight go. But, if you're outside a transfer window that doesn't quite help. In the meantime, really working on team cohesion and getting training sessions that yield bonuses to the next session could help in the short term, if you're not already doing so. Match practice, attacking movement, defensive shape, and team bonding sessions are all quite helpful. The last, especially, helps team cohesion and morale from dropping.

Your DLP looks promising, though essentially better suited to an advanced playmaker in the long run with that high flair. He just really needs to work on his off the ball movements, as well as a bit of speed. I can see why you're using him as you are, though his defensive skills are fairly horrid for the role, bringing down his suitability. If he's not on free kick duty, he probably should be. If he gets one in, he can get pumped and start to have a really good game.

But, yeah, at this point I'd be looking at a direct counter attack style, even if the game says your defense is a bit shaky. How are your forwards in terms of speed, dribbling, and overall mentals? Their star ratings do concern me a bit.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Prepper_Jack

[Patfan1991]

1 hour ago, Prepper_Jack said:

How are your forwards in terms of speed, dribbling, and overall mentals? Their star ratings do concern me a bit.

Here they are

[Patfan1991]

Here is my latest tactic

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Patfan1991

[Experienced Defender]

13 hours ago, Patfan1991 said:

Yes, Please

Okay, let's imagine this is your primary (counter-attacking) 442 tactic:

DLFat    AF

IWsu   CMde   DLPsu   WMsu

WBsu    CDde    CDde    WBsu

SKde

Mentality - Balanced

In possession - higher tempo, hit early crosses pass into space

In transition - counter

Out of possession - lower line of engagement, get stuck in

Here is what your secondary ("non-counter") could then look like:

DLFsu    AF

IWat    CMde   DLPsu   WMsu

WBsu    CDde   CDde   WBsu

SKde

Mentality - Balanced

In possession - shorter passing and overlap left (everything else on default)

In transition - distribute to CBs and FBs

Out of possession - no instructions (everything on default)

Player instructions - some sort of split block (with both strikers + 1 or 2 midfielders).

Now compare and see how small the difference basically is.

 

[Patfan1991]

28 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, let's imagine this is your primary (counter-attacking) 442 tactic:

DLFat    AF

IWsu   CMde   DLPsu   WMsu

WBsu    CDde    CDde    WBsu

SKde

Mentality - Balanced

In possession - higher tempo, hit early crosses pass into space

In transition - counter

Out of possession - lower line of engagement, get stuck in

Here is what your secondary ("non-counter") could then look like:

DLFsu    AF

IWat    CMde   DLPsu   WMsu

WBsu    CDde   CDde   WBsu

SKde

Mentality - Balanced

In possession - shorter passing and overlap left (everything else on default)

In transition - distribute to CBs and FBs

Out of possession - no instructions (everything on default)

Player instructions - some sort of split block (with both strikers + 1 or 2 midfielders).

Now compare and see how small the difference basically is.

 

I see.  I will try this out. Thank you very much

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Patfan1991 said:

I will try this out

I cannot say that this is the exact tactic you should play with your team, simply because I don't know your team and whether it would be suitable for you. Instead, this was just an example for you to give you some food for thought. Maybe it will work for your team, maybe not. And it's not a plug'n'play by any means. But anyway, you can try and see 

[Patfan1991]

9 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I cannot say that this is the exact tactic you should play with your team, simply because I don't know your team and whether it would be suitable for you. Instead, this was just an example for you to give you some food for thought. Maybe it will work for your team, maybe not. And it's not a plug'n'play by any means. But anyway, you can try and see 

Yep, I knew what you meant. Its the idea of making minor adjustments of the tactic I'm using depending on the opponent. Thanks