Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

[3maldini3]

Playing with Atalanta, won two championships in a row and going to win a third.

My keeper Gollini was worth about 20 million in the last summer and since then the value is falling down, every week a 200k or so.

Surely a bug, isn't it?

[Novem9]

@zyfon5

hi, this is no insane for you?

5 clear chances, 2 woodworks and a lot moments which poor GK solved as Buffon best years interpretation

Willem II - N.E.C..pkm

And I see a c*** like this every few games. Without any exploits

Edited May 9, 2020 by Novem9

[Pasonen]

36 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

@zyfon5

hi, this is no insane for you?

5 clear chances, 2 woodworks and a lot moments which poor GK solved as Buffon best years interpretation

Willem II - N.E.C..pkm 184.74 kB · 1 download

And I see a c*** like this every few games. Without any exploits

Can i add this game to this post?

Your game has the same problem with the interceptions.

 

[Pasonen]

I'll Add couple headers to this too. 

 

[zyfon5]

11 hours ago, Pasonen said:

Can i add this game to this post?

Your game has the same problem with the interceptions.

 

hi ive just checked your game. look at the amount of passes completed versus the amount of shots that u are getting 400+ passes with 56 shots. maybe ur tactic is the problem here?

Edited May 10, 2020 by zyfon5

[Gee_Simpson]

19 hours ago, Kingstontom88 said:

Precisely. If we're relying on preset tactics and reduced highlights to get our kicks then I seriously question the point of playing it at all. Developing tactics is a huge part of the game - watching them play out is ultimately the reward. I use presets as a foundation at times, but end up tweaking substantially to aim for what I need.

What's your solution for people who aren't great at tactics? For example someone who is genuinely rubbish at analysing the ME or is just genuinely not clued up to real life tactics? Tactics is a huge part of the game, I get that, we are supposed to be football managers of course but there are also other parts to the game as well. It should be accessible for both camps though and if you feel it's not in great shape then don't buy it next time round. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Gee_Simpson

[zyfon5]

11 hours ago, Pasonen said:

I'll Add couple headers to this too. 

 

all those shots are first time shots in mid air from a cross or heavily contested shots which is always going to be harder to hit properly. if u have played football before, u will know that these first time shots are not easy to hit properly. a bad contact of the ball with ur foot will deflect the ball in random direction. Data analytics also reveal that crosses are the least efficient ways to score a goal. in a lot of cases, these balls will not even be in contact with the players foot and simply missed completely. if u have videos where a player completely missed a close range ground shot with no pressure and well controlled ball, then i think it is a very valid reason of complaint.

Edited May 10, 2020 by zyfon5

[zyfon5]

2 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

What's your solution for people who aren't great at tactics? For example someone who is genuinely rubbish at analysing the ME? 

watch FM videos, learn and practice to apply them in game. just like everything else in real life. the tactics forum also has a ton of guides.

[Gee_Simpson]

Just now, zyfon5 said:

watch FM videos, learn and practice to apply them in game. just like everything else in real life. the tactics forum also has a ton of guides.

I've read and watched tonnes of guides, but it hasn't made me any better at reading the ME. I think there are many like me that play the game. I have still tried to come up with a tactic though and hopefully it works. If it didn't though, I would probably be clueless as how to fix it. 

[zyfon5]

Just now, Gee_Simpson said:

I've read and watched tonnes of guides, but it hasn't made me any better at reading the ME. I think there are many like me that play the game. I have still tried to come up with a tactic though and hopefully it works. If it didn't though, I would probably be clueless as how to fix it. 

if u have any problems with your tactics, u can ask for help from the tactics forum. there are a lot of kind people who are more knowledgeable than me about tactics there that are willing to help anyone with questions about tactics.

[Gee_Simpson]

2 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

if u have any problems with your tactics, u can ask for help from the tactics forum. there are a lot of kind people who are more knowledgeable than me about tactics there that are willing to help anyone with questions about tactics.

Yeah I understand, I know how helpful the people in the tactics forum are. I'm also a patron of BustTheNet so I have plenty of help if I need it. People who want to use the presets though, I have no issue with, they are there to be used for beginners if needed. 

[zyfon5]

14 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Yeah I understand, I know how helpful the people in the tactics forum are. I'm also a patron of BustTheNet so I have plenty of help if I need it. People who want to use the presets though, I have no issue with, they are there to be used for beginners if needed. 

some things that have helped me to understand tactics more including watching some tactical analysis videos and reading some books about football in general. other than that watch some football matches and try to analyze how they play urself using the tactical knowledge u have. it will gradually come with experience.

[zyfon5]

12 hours ago, Novem9 said:

@zyfon5

hi, this is no insane for you?

5 clear chances, 2 woodworks and a lot moments which poor GK solved as Buffon best years interpretation

Willem II - N.E.C..pkm 184.74 kB · 3 downloads

And I see a c*** like this every few games. Without any exploits

hi ive carefully analyze your match. maybe u were a bit unlucky there that u hit the woodwork twice. however what i notice is most of your chances were generated from crosses which is always going to be very low percentage chances. the opponent is playing a 4411 shape most of the match. so by pinning them so deep into their own half and so reliant on crosses u are doing exactly what they want u to do. of course they are defending so happily there. next time when playing against a 4411 exploit the space in the centre bcz they only have two central midfielders and stop pushing ur wingbacks so high up the pitch where they could be easily defended by the two wingers that will track back and defend. in summary, u have essentially played into your opponents hand this match with your poor tactical choice which no amount of shots could save u there. maybe u were a bit unlucky there but with a better tactical decision u will definitely increase ur chances of winning this match.

[zyfon5]

13 hours ago, Novem9 said:

@zyfon5

hi, this is no insane for you?

5 clear chances, 2 woodworks and a lot moments which poor GK solved as Buffon best years interpretation

Willem II - N.E.C..pkm 184.74 kB · 3 downloads

And I see a c*** like this every few games. Without any exploits

having think carefully of it im not sure what is more insane-constantly sticking to a tactic that is clearly not working or u hit the woodwork twice. here is an insane suggestion for you if u want to keep your playing style like this: play a 433 with 3 strikers up top instead of the 4231 u are using right now. u will get more success with playing 3 strikers up top if ur game plan is just cross the ball into the box or pressure ur opponents defenders until they make a mistake.

[zyfon5]

@Novem9  @Pasonen

if u want to know what kind of shots will give u the best chances of scoring, check out this video

notice how little goals were from a floated cross let alone a first time shot from a cross. even an unmarked long shot directly facing the goal will give u a better chance of scoring than from a cross. and pay attention to how most of their 1 v 1's scored is from a cutback or from a well controlled ball not immediately pressured by a defender. what i feel SI should be doing though is increase the chances of getting a rebound from a cross or a shot currently it is too easy for the GK to held onto the ball or players to get a shot from a set piece directly.

Edited May 10, 2020 by zyfon5

[Novem9]

2 часа назад, zyfon5 сказал:

having think carefully of it im not sure what is more insane-constantly sticking to a tactic that is clearly not working or u hit the woodwork twice. here is an insane suggestion for you if u want to keep your playing style like this: play a 433 with 3 strikers up top instead of the 4231 u are using right now. u will get more success with playing 3 strikers up top if ur game plan is just cross the ball into the box or pressure ur opponents defenders until they make a mistake.

Why I need to change my realistic tactic for unrealistic and cheat tactic with 3 strikers?

Again, I create 5 clear chances as FM noticed, but FM ignore a lot of clear chances in some reasons. There are no problem with tactic, no sir

[Pasonen]

@zyfon5 Those are not my games. I watch other played games and try to help SI to improve the game. If they say theres nothing to fix or they cant right now its ok for me. I just want this game to improve.

1) I know the game doesnt utilize middle enough. Not enough passplays that in real life break tight formations.  I'm not meaning goal leading passes in the final third should allways come from center.

2) Defending teams dont know how to attack from deep after ball is robbed. They dont use the space what attacking team leaves open. No proper countering logic.

3) Playing very attacking tactic is too easy because theres too much time and space everywhere, Defending is too static and narrow. and because of 2) you can play attack almost allways.

4) Too many shots because defending gives too much space and time spent in attacking zone is high. + 3) you can keep men up. Its really one big snowball effect.

[zyfon5]

7 hours ago, Novem9 said:

Why I need to change my realistic tactic for unrealistic and cheat tactic with 3 strikers?

Again, I create 5 clear chances as FM noticed, but FM ignore a lot of clear chances in some reasons. There are no problem with tactic, no sir

Hi I've stated the reason why the tactic failed against the AI. If u want a proper answer kindly post ur tactics at the tactics forum I'm pretty sure someone will offer better advice than me. However if u don't feel ur tactic is the reason why u are not getting results against the AI then feel free to continue complain about the ME.

7 hours ago, Pasonen said:

@zyfon5 Those are not my games. I watch other played games and try to help SI to improve the game. If they say theres nothing to fix or they cant right now its ok for me. I just want this game to improve.

1) I know the game doesnt utilize middle enough. Not enough passplays that in real life break tight formations.  I'm not meaning goal leading passes in the final third should allways come from center.

2) Defending teams dont know how to attack from deep after ball is robbed. They dont use the space what attacking team leaves open. No proper countering logic.

3) Playing very attacking tactic is too easy because theres too much time and space everywhere, Defending is too static and narrow. and because of 2) you can play attack almost allways.

4) Too many shots because defending gives too much space and time spent in attacking zone is high. + 3) you can keep men up. Its really one big snowball effect.

1) there is truth that the ME doesn't utilize the middle space well due to the striker making less dropping movements. 

2) they will if u set them up properly. However the AI sometimes is overly cautious. A human player can set up a counter attacking tactic no problem at all in this ME.

3) how do u define easy? So many players play very attacking tactics that failed to get results against the AI. Yes u dominate shots and possession but does it lead to more goals? No. If the AI is defending deep but u still want to bang into it is it the ME's fault or your fault? The aim of the AI is to get a result against you. If it means they are defending deep they will do it. It's that simple. Also u really need to learn how teams defend in real life. Defending is always about defending narrow and leaving wide spaces bcz ur opponents cannot hurt u so much from these wide spaces. A quote from the great Cruyff, "when u defend u want to make the pitch narrow, when u attack u want to make the pitch as wide as u can"

4) if the tactical set up is to camp the opponents in their own half then it will do exactly that. I can score 4 goals with 44% possession and 13 shots or 60% possession with 26 shots it doesn't matter. What matters is I score 4 goals and get a win. If the AI feels that giving space if what they will need to win they will do exactly that. It is up to u to counter the AI tactics. 

Also from what I can see from the screenshot u posted there I am 99% sure it is an exploit tactic or the opponents is just very weak. 

[Pasonen]

5 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

1) there is truth that the ME doesn't utilize the middle space well due to the striker making less dropping movements. 

2) they will if u set them up properly. However the AI sometimes is overly cautious. A human player can set up a counter attacking tactic no problem at all in this ME.

3) how do u define easy? So many players play very attacking tactics that failed to get results against the AI. Yes u dominate shots and possession but does it lead to more goals? No. If the AI is defending deep but u still want to bang into it is it the ME's fault or your fault? The aim of the AI is to get a result against you. If it means they are defending deep they will do it. It's that simple. Also u really need to learn how teams defend in real life. Defending is always about defending narrow and leaving wide spaces bcz ur opponents cannot hurt u so much from these wide spaces. A quote from the great Cruyff, "when u defend u want to make the pitch narrow, when u attack u want to make the pitch as wide as u can"

4) if the tactical set up is to camp the opponents in their own half then it will do exactly that. I can score 4 goals with 44% possession and 13 shots or 60% possession with 26 shots it doesn't matter. What matters is I score 4 goals and get a win. If the AI feels that giving space if what they will need to win they will do exactly that. It is up to u to counter the AI tactics. 

3) You can push your players up and not get punished from it like it would happen in real football. The balance of things is not right. In real life if you would push opponent deep with both wingbacks attack and exploit the wide, then there would be a big chance for counter goals. Good tackle when 7-8 players are up --> defending team is ready to hit you by passing a run ball -> you got 3-2 men behind and cant stop them. In FM 1) Good tackle --> pass to a free player who plays ball back down and ball is cleared. 2) You take a hammering of 20-50 shots --> get a lucky foul close enough to make indirect freekick and score from it. Its not humane to sit tight and not try to cut out passes or start counters.

No defending team leaves wingbacks completely unmarked for seconds and then he hits a forced cross to legs. That happens in FM all the time. No. wingback stretch the defending formation passes ball back to center are there space pass to it. of course sometimes they go for crosses. 

I know we're talking a different things. You're talking about computer game football and I want to see real football from my display while I play. I think SI would love to see FM look like real football as much as possible. If you want to say football fan who plays football manager 2020 that you're playing it wrong because you create too much chances it might not go down well. Simulation is selling illusion and you're saying snap out of it its not football its a game! Its like stabbing football fans heart.  

I Understand you but i understand players who want to win if they got 5 ccc. I also understand in sports things rarely go the way you like and its good FM doesnt hand them to you freely if you got the most of shots or control. In the end behind all the talking and arguing stands that round thing what is being kicked at to get it to goal. Most goals scored wins.

 

[Zemahh]

5 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

What's your solution for people who aren't great at tactics? For example someone who is genuinely rubbish at analysing the ME or is just genuinely not clued up to real life tactics?

If you don't mind playing through seasons at slower pace, my first advice would be to watch more of the highlights. You can set highlights to Full for first 15 minutes of the match, which should help you spot any glaring issues, and then switch to Comprehensive. Watch them at slow speed and rewind problematic things you notice, but aren't exactly sure why they happened.

For example, let's say you notice your Full-Back passing the ball straight to the opposition. Rewind the action (upper right corner) and try to find out why his pass got intercepted. Did he have enough passing options in close range, or is the winger in front of him bombing forward too quickly, meaning he has no short passing options? Did he take too many touches before getting closed down, which could mean your tempo is too low vs. the opposition' closing down urgency? Is he instructed to attempt risky passes? Or is it his attributes and he's just bad at passing or assessing his options? Then write these things down, look at your tactic and see how you could improve them. Make sure you're only fixing things that are actually problematic though (repeating pattern during 2-3 matches), you don't want to constantly make changes to your tactic, which could make players struggle to find their rhythm and create a problem in itself. Sometimes things just come down to your opposition having better players or system that is a natural counter to yours.

You obviously learn the most by watching matches and seeing how changes affect things on the go, but if you prefer to play at faster pace, I suggest briefly checking the Analysis screen after every game. Firstly the Summary section, which should point out any glaring issues, such as your GK making a mistake leading to goal, winger not connecting a single cross or your striker fluffing all of his chances, and then the Team/Player section, where you can filter down for all kinds of things. Some of the more common ones:

• Passes/Key Passes/Crosses Completed: from which areas did the opposition threaten you the most?
• Passes Intercepted: who lost possession the most?
• Pass Received/Touches: is there a player that isn't getting as much of the ball as you imagined?
• Heat Maps: are you enjoying possession close to your opposition's goal, or is it mostly non-threatening, in your own half?
• Shots: are you shooting from dangerous areas (centrally, inside the 6-yard box) often enough? If you're Rashidi's Patreon, you probably already watched it, but he made a video specifically for this topic.
• Fouls Made: is a certain player having issues controlling his area that could use more support defensively?

Also worth mentioning are the Analysis -> Goals -> Assist Locations/Goal Types and league's Team Detailed screens, which can help you spot issues such as constantly conceding assists from one area, or just not scoring enough goals for your media prediction/board expectation. That then gets you started on which areas of your tactic are problematic.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Zemahh

[Overmars]

18 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

1) I know the game doesnt utilize middle enough. Not enough passplays that in real life break tight formations.  I'm not meaning goal leading passes in the final third should allways come from center.

I agree. EPL matches typically have 40-50 throw-ins, but I constantly see well over 60 in FM matches. I just played an EPL match using ordinary tactics and had 88 throw-ins, right after having 77 the match before. You can't have a proper simulation with that. There are also too many corners.

[zyfon5]

4 minutes ago, Overmars said:

I agree. EPL matches typically have 40-50 throw-ins, but I constantly see well over 60 in FM matches. I just played an EPL match using ordinary tactics and had 88 throw-ins, right after having 77 the match before. You can't have a proper simulation with that. There are also too many corners.

throw ins are definitely a bit too much in FM. part of the reason why there are so many corners in FM is almost every cross that are blocked ends up as a corner. IRL they will bounce off more randomly. also it is too easy for players to head a ball from a free kick to get a shot or for a corner.

[dolph11]

A lot of dodgy things happen in the ME, tall defenders marking the wrong players at set-pieces, tall defenders getting out-jumped consistently, weird pass choices, static defenders when the opposition counter and I let it go. It's too difficult to show on here. This, however, is really annoying. A big game against Burnley (a big game for me, anyway) and I have an attacking corner. As with all my attacking corners I leave a player lurking on the edge of the area. In this case it's Tyler. As you can see, he's in the area. Now, my problem here is the opposition have a player by himself outside the area. Why is Tyler a) not doing his job and b) not  even close to the opposition player. This inevitably leads to Burnley scoring as they win the header in the box and it falls straight to the opposition player waiting outside the box who is unbelievably quick and it creates a 2v2 situation which is incredibly dangerous and I got punished because of it. 

 

Once again, this feels scripted. Of course, I'm not saying it is, but it's crap like this that makes people question it at least. Can people always defending the game start to understand this? 

Edited May 10, 2020 by dolph11

[zyfon5]

24 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

3) You can push your players up and not get punished from it like it would happen in real football. The balance of things is not right. In real life if you would push opponent deep with both wingbacks attack and exploit the wide, then there would be a big chance for counter goals. Good tackle when 7-8 players are up --> defending team is ready to hit you by passing a run ball -> you got 3-2 men behind and cant stop them. In FM 1) Good tackle --> pass to a free player who plays ball back down and ball is cleared. 2) You take a hammering of 20-50 shots --> get a lucky foul close enough to make indirect freekick and score from it. Its not humane to sit tight and not try to cut out passes or start counters.

No defending team leaves wingbacks completely unmarked for seconds and then he hits a forced cross to legs. That happens in FM all the time. No. wingback stretch the defending formation passes ball back to center are there space pass to it. of course sometimes they go for crosses. 

I know we're talking a different things. You're talking about computer game football and I want to see real football from my display while I play. I think SI would love to see FM look like real football as much as possible. If you want to say football fan who plays football manager 2020 that you're playing it wrong because you create too much chances it might not go down well. Simulation is selling illusion and you're saying snap out of it its not football its a game! Its like stabbing football fans heart.  

I Understand you but i understand players who want to win if they got 5 ccc. I also understand in sports things rarely go the way you like and its good FM doesnt hand them to you freely if you got the most of shots or control. In the end behind all the talking and arguing stands that round thing what is being kicked at to get it to goal. Most goals scored wins.

 

liverpool push up their wingbacks all the time why are they not punished for it? maybe they have found the secret formula? the reality is bcz of the offside rule pressing is a very viable way of defending when u can push numbers high up the pitch. it is a reason why pressing is all the craze nowadays. teams that push wingbacks high up the pitch are still defending but they are defending in a very different way so they can stop counter attacks before it is even started.

about the crossing thing i do think players choose a cross over a pass a little too often in FM. sometimes i wish my wingbacks will pass the ball back to the centre to recycle possession instead of hitting so many crosses but it is hard to get the balance right.

of course i would love FM to simulate real life football but i dont think it is at a point where the ME is absolutely useless until there is only one way to play football even though high pressing is clearly the most efficient way. the animations definitely need some work though.

[zyfon5]

15 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

A lot of dodgy things happen in the ME, tall defenders marking the wrong players at set-pieces, tall defenders getting out-jumped consistently, weird pass choices, static defenders when the opposition counter and I let it go. It's too difficult to show on here. This, however, is really annoying. A big game against Burnley (a big game for me, anyway) and I have an attacking corner. As with all my attacking corners I leave a player lurking on the edge of the area. In this case it's Tyler. As you can see, he's in the area. Now, my problem here is the opposition have a player by himself outside the area. Why is Tyler a) not doing his job and b) not  even close to the opposition player. This inevitably leads to Burnley scoring as they win the header in the box and it falls straight to the opposition player waiting outside the box who is unbelievably quick and it creates a 2v2 situation which is incredibly dangerous and I got punished because of it. 

 

Once again, this feels scripted. Of course, I'm not saying it is, but it's crap like this that makes people question it at least. Can people always defending the game start to understand this? 

first off the corner is already taken so im not sure if tyler moves from his original position or that is his original position. in my save the player that is tasked to lurk at the edge of area always stays close to the 18 yard line.

second why should the player that is tasked to lurk the edge of area carry any defensive responsibility when u leave so little players behind? if u want him to help defend u can use stay back when needed. i never leave so few players defending during a corner bcz it is risky. if u want to take the risk then u have to bear with the risk. stop moaning about conceding from a corner counter when u don't leave players to defend.

also the dodgy things that u mentioned above is always a big doubt for me if u cannot show me a proof of it. i also have raised my questions about a lot of things u claimed in the past which most of them are unanswered so i have to view everything that u say a bit more cautiously.

[dolph11]

3 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

first off the corner is already taken so im not sure if tyler moves from his original position or that is his original position. in my save the player that is tasked to lurk at the edge of area always stays close to the 18 yard line.

second why should the player that is tasked to lurk the edge of area carry any defensive responsibility when u leave so little players behind? if u want him to help defend u can use stay back when needed. i never leave so few players defending during a corner bcz it is risky. if u want to take the risk then u have to bear with the risk. stop moaning about conceding from a corner counter when u don't leave players to defend.

also the dodgy things that u mentioned above is always a big doubt for me if u cannot show me a proof of it. i also have raised my questions about a lot of things u claimed in the past which most of them are unanswered so i have to view everything that u say a bit more cautiously.

Wait, what? Are you for real? They have one striker who stayed in attack, how many would you leave for one striker? I leave two pacey full backs to prevent a counter. Usually, in real football, one would sit tight on him and the other a little deeper to cover. Two players staying back is sufficient, you're just being silly now. Additionally, lurk outside area is there so the player doesn't enter the area, attack ball from edge of the area is when you want them in there, ergo, he should have stayed outside the area as instructed. Furthermore, he is a DLP(d) so should have a defensive nature. Lurk outside is, by nature, a cover tactic for if the ball gets headed clear, it is not an attacking tactic. There is no way on earth he should have been in the area. You are defending the game for the sake of it now. 

I have attached the shot from when the corner was taken, he's right in the midst of the box. He shouldn't have been. 

[zyfon5]

6 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

Wait, what? Are you for real? They have one striker who stayed in attack, how many would you leave for one striker? I leave two pacey full backs to prevent a counter. Usually, in real football, one would sit tight on him and the other a little deeper to cover. Two players staying back is sufficient, you're just being silly now. Additionally, lurk outside area is there so the player doesn't enter the area, attack ball from edge of the area is when you want them in there, ergo, he should have stayed outside the area as instructed. Furthermore, he is a DLP(d) so should have a defensive nature. Lurk outside is, by nature, a cover tactic for if the ball gets headed clear, it is not an attacking tactic. There is no way on earth he should have been in the area. You are defending the game for the sake of it now. 

I have attached the shot from when the corner was taken, he's right in the midst of the box. He shouldn't have been. 

this is my tactical set up everything is working perfectly as planned. pls also post ur corner set up here. takehashi is the player i have tasked to lurk outside area here. the player to lurk outside area will not help u to do much defending. he is tasked to collect a loose ball. if the loose ball is collected by an opponent player, he cant do much about it. do u have players to do any man marking in OI? bcz they will also affect marking in set pieces. again what im seeing in my game may not equal to what u are seeing in your game. so if u do believe its a bug pls report it in the bugs forum there. i have no reason to defend SI if it is really an issue.

[dolph11]

6 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

this is my tactical set up everything is working perfectly as planned. pls also post ur corner set up here. takehashi is the player i have tasked to lurk outside area here. the player to lurk outside area will not help u to do much defending. he is tasked to collect a loose ball. if the loose ball is collected by an opponent player, he cant do much about it. do u have players to do any man marking in OI? bcz they will also affect marking in set pieces. again what im seeing in my game may not equal to what u are seeing in your game. so if u do believe its a bug pls report it in the bugs forum there. i have no reason to defend SI if it is really an issue.

So what you're saying is that my player tasked with 'lurk outside area' shouldn't do so and if he does, he shouldn't try to defend should the ball be cleared? And in defend I mean challenge the opposition player when it's cleared so as not to allow him to just collect the ball and counter freely? I just want to know for clarity? If you are, I will stop interacting with you as that's just nonsense. 

 

Just so we are clear here, man-marking on an attacking corner? What are you on about? I don't need to man-mark. I need cover players. 2 players covering 1 striker and a player lurking outside the box covering there player is enough. My player didn't do that and the opposition scored. How can you not see the problem here?

Edited May 10, 2020 by dolph11

[dolph11]

Secondly, I'm not sure if it's a bug. I'm saying it's one of the reasons when things like this happen that people question the ME.

[zyfon5]

Just now, dolph11 said:

So what you're saying is that my player tasked with 'lurk outside area' shouldn't do so and if he does, he shouldn't try to defend should the ball be cleared? And in defend I mean challenge the opposition player when it's cleared so as not to allow him to just collect the ball and counter freely? I just want to know for clarity? If you are, I will stop interacting with you as that's just nonsense. 

post your corner set up first and verify if u made any marking in OI. if u feel a player that is lurking outside the area should also take part in defending then u can voice your opinion to SI. read my comments again he is there to collect the loose ball not to man mark a player. but he can still challenge the player if he is close to do so. u initially asked why he is not marking the player (not close to the opposition player) not asking why he didint tackle the player from a counter. and how would i know what happened after the corner was cleared when u didint post any screenshot of it? your screenshot the player that u have set up to lurk outside area is clearly not doing what he is supposed to do. so either u have set up the corner routine wrongly with additional OI added or it is a bug.

[dolph11]

20 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

post your corner set up first and verify if u made any marking in OI. if u feel a player that is lurking outside the area should also take part in defending then u can voice your opinion to SI. read my comments again he is there to collect the loose ball not to man mark a player. but he can still challenge the player if he is close to do so. u initially asked why he is not marking the player (not close to the opposition player) not asking why he didint tackle the player from a counter. and how would i know what happened after the corner was cleared when u didint post any screenshot of it? your screenshot the player that u have set up to lurk outside area is clearly not doing what he is supposed to do. so either u have set up the corner routine wrongly with additional OI added or it is a bug.

What are you even on about? You're making no sense. He was supposed to lurk outside the are. End of story. Had he been there he should have been close to the opposition player. That's how football works. No player in his right mind would leave an opposition player free. Again, he was instructed to lurk outside the area and he didn't. There is no excuse for it. It cost me a goal and it shouldn't have. 

My corner routine. It's really unnecessary to upload it as I had no reason to lie about him being instructed to 'lurk outside area' for crying out loud.  

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by dolph11

[zyfon5]

16 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

What are you even on about? You're making no sense. He was supposed to lurk outside the are. End of story. Had he been there he should have been close to the opposition player. That's how football works. No player in his right mind would leave an opposition player free. Again, he was instructed to lurk outside the area and he didn't. There is no excuse for it. It cost me a goal and it shouldn't have. 

My corner routine. It's really unnecessary to upload it as I had no reason to lie about him being instructed to 'lurk outside area' for crying out loud.  

yes the player is clearly not doing something that he is supposed to do here. if u think it is a bug then log it in the bugs forum. as simple as that. not sure what all the bashing is about.

Edited May 10, 2020 by zyfon5

[dolph11]

Of course, I don't expect people to just trust. You have to understand that this is time consuming and not a lot people can be bothered. If I came on here every time stuff like this happened I'd never be able to play the game. Additionally, some stuff is really hard to to highlight on here. But, be certain, stupid stuff like this happens far too often. 

[zyfon5]

3 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

Of course, I don't expect people to just trust. You have to understand that this is time consuming and not a lot people can be bothered. If I came on here every time stuff like this happened I'd never be able to play the game. Additionally, some stuff is really hard to to highlight on here. But, be certain, stupid stuff like this happens far too often. 

of course the ME is not perfect and has bugs. i also encountered them. but when u have ppl claiming something like AI strikers are performing like normal and their strikers are nerfed without any evidence, are u not frustrated? 

[dolph11]

20 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

of course the ME is not perfect and has bugs. i also encountered them. but when u have ppl claiming something like AI strikers are performing like normal and their strikers are nerfed without any evidence, are u not frustrated? 

I don't know, to be honest. I'm not really a dismissive person so I like to hear what people say and give them a chance to show it. That can be difficult on here with the complexities of uploading stuff and taking screenshots etc. I have read some complaints that weren't valid and some that were. That's always going to be the case. 

[FrazT]

@dolph11 and @zyfon5  There is a feeling that you two are taking over this thread ( the last 14 posts?), so why not take your discussion to PM and let the thread re-open to other users?

[dolph11]

2 minutes ago, FrazT said:

@dolph11 and @zyfon5  There is a feeling that you two are taking over this thread ( the last 14 posts?), so why not take your discussion to PM and let the thread re-open to other users?

Really? How strange. Are we limited to how many times we discuss things with a person on here? I do find that really strange. No worries, I'm done for the day.

[FrazT]

Just now, dolph11 said:

Really? How strange. Are we limited to how many times we discuss things with a person on here? I do find that really strange. No worries, I'm done for the day.

Of course not and you are not breaking any rules.  Experience shows that when 2 users get into a long and personal discussion in the feedback thread, other users will decide not to post, so since this is a general feedback thread, I am suggesting that you can start a specific thread about your discussion points and you can chat away or do it by PM. Not a big deal, only a suggestion.

[Kingstontom88]

10 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

What's your solution for people who aren't great at tactics? For example someone who is genuinely rubbish at analysing the ME or is just genuinely not clued up to real life tactics? Tactics is a huge part of the game, I get that, we are supposed to be football managers of course but there are also other parts to the game as well. It should be accessible for both camps though and if you feel it's not in great shape then don't buy it next time round. 

For new players or those who aren't great at tactics, obviously the presets make sense. But if the game takes a turn as soon as you deviate from them, what is the point for experienced players? It essentially becomes plug and play, which is dull in my view.

I have not, in any previous edition, encountered the mind-numbing frustrations as I have in FM20 from an ME perspective. I see all these advisory tips on here and those saying 'what issues?' - well done to all of them, but I have been through the mill and out the other side and nothing changes. Not only that, I watch highlights of other games regularly and the goals are repetitive, defensive behaviours are woeful.etc

I think it's in poor shape, and I will wait for feedback on next year's BETA before I even consider buying.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Kingstontom88

[DiStru_]

Wut, how can the AI trial players for 7 weeks? 

[CityAndColour]

You can take a player on trial for all of pre-season can't you?

[craigcwwe]

You can yeah but you can't take a player on trial for longer than four weeks at a time. That image above makes out that the player in question has been taken on a straight 7 week trial which isn't possible in the game without bringing the player in on trial twice.

[XaW]

13 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

You can yeah but you can't take a player on trial for longer than four weeks at a time. That image above makes out that the player in question has been taken on a straight 7 week trial which isn't possible in the game without bringing the player in on trial twice.

It's possible actually. When you offer a trial while in pre-season you can ask the player to stay "until the end of pre-season", and he will stay that long, even if it's over 4 weeks. So in the screenshot above, the rest of pre-season could be 7 weeks.

Edited May 10, 2020 by XaW

[craigcwwe]

5 minutes ago, XaW said:

It's possible actually. When you offer a trial while in pre-season you can ask the player to stay "until the end of pre-season", and he will stay that long, even if it's over 4 weeks. So in the screenshot above, the rest of pre-season could be 7 weeks.

Really? Fair enough, can't say I've ever come across that option but you learn something new everyday as the saying goes. 

So I stand corrected. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by craigcwwe

[XaW]

7 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

Really? Fair enough, can't say I've ever come across that option but you learn something new everyday as the saying goes. 

So I stand corrected. 

Yeah, I haven't done this in FM20, but I'm certain I did in FM19 at one point.

[XaW]

Just now, illy 7 said:

i got dreds

grateful dead

$occer $Tar$

Watauga

TeD

What....?

[JordanMilly]

Spammer @XaW, I've just dealt with it.

[Gee_Simpson]

21 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

some things that have helped me to understand tactics more including watching some tactical analysis videos and reading some books about football in general. other than that watch some football matches and try to analyze how they play urself using the tactical knowledge u have. it will gradually come with experience.

Unfortunately I don't have much tactical knowledge, despite watching football all my life. Mostly just watched it from an entertainment perspective, never really focused on the tactics. 

16 hours ago, Zemahh said:

If you don't mind playing through seasons at slower pace, my first advice would be to watch more of the highlights. You can set highlights to Full for first 15 minutes of the match, which should help you spot any glaring issues, and then switch to Comprehensive. Watch them at slow speed and rewind problematic things you notice, but aren't exactly sure why they happened.

For example, let's say you notice your Full-Back passing the ball straight to the opposition. Rewind the action (upper right corner) and try to find out why his pass got intercepted. Did he have enough passing options in close range, or is the winger in front of him bombing forward too quickly, meaning he has no short passing options? Did he take too many touches before getting closed down, which could mean your tempo is too low vs. the opposition' closing down urgency? Is he instructed to attempt risky passes? Or is it his attributes and he's just bad at passing or assessing his options? Then write these things down, look at your tactic and see how you could improve them. Make sure you're only fixing things that are actually problematic though (repeating pattern during 2-3 matches), you don't want to constantly make changes to your tactic, which could make players struggle to find their rhythm and create a problem in itself. Sometimes things just come down to your opposition having better players or system that is a natural counter to yours.

You obviously learn the most by watching matches and seeing how changes affect things on the go, but if you prefer to play at faster pace, I suggest briefly checking the Analysis screen after every game. Firstly the Summary section, which should point out any glaring issues, such as your GK making a mistake leading to goal, winger not connecting a single cross or your striker fluffing all of his chances, and then the Team/Player section, where you can filter down for all kinds of things. Some of the more common ones:

• Passes/Key Passes/Crosses Completed: from which areas did the opposition threaten you the most?
• Passes Intercepted: who lost possession the most?
• Pass Received/Touches: is there a player that isn't getting as much of the ball as you imagined?
• Heat Maps: are you enjoying possession close to your opposition's goal, or is it mostly non-threatening, in your own half?
• Shots: are you shooting from dangerous areas (centrally, inside the 6-yard box) often enough? If you're Rashidi's Patreon, you probably already watched it, but he made a video specifically for this topic.
• Fouls Made: is a certain player having issues controlling his area that could use more support defensively?

Also worth mentioning are the Analysis -> Goals -> Assist Locations/Goal Types and league's Team Detailed screens, which can help you spot issues such as constantly conceding assists from one area, or just not scoring enough goals for your media prediction/board expectation. That then gets you started on which areas of your tactic are problematic.

Great post mate, I'll bookmark this.

12 hours ago, Kingstontom88 said:

For new players or those who aren't great at tactics, obviously the presets make sense. But if the game takes a turn as soon as you deviate from them, what is the point for experienced players? It essentially becomes plug and play, which is dull in my view.

I have not, in any previous edition, encountered the mind-numbing frustrations as I have in FM20 from an ME perspective. I see all these advisory tips on here and those saying 'what issues?' - well done to all of them, but I have been through the mill and out the other side and nothing changes. Not only that, I watch highlights of other games regularly and the goals are repetitive, defensive behaviours are woeful.etc

I think it's in poor shape, and I will wait for feedback on next year's BETA before I even consider buying.

Yeah mate you are entitled to your opinion. If you feel that way then as you say, maybe wait and see how FM 21 is shaping up before buying. 

[tajj7]

On 04/05/2020 at 06:42, zyfon5 said:

With so many free kicks and fouls commited, I'm not surprised that u actually created so many shots. Was there actual real football being played? And from the sheer amount of headers and low number of passes by the more dominant side I'm pretty sure both sides are just trying to hoof the ball to each other. Is this by any chance a plug and play tactic?

No it's not a plug and play tactic, it's one I created myself based on Hassenhutl's 4-2-2-2 system.  The lack of passes is a ME engine problem, not a tactic problem. 

There is no hoofball in my system and no hoofball is played, the overall instructions are shorter passing.  The fouls and the lack of passing for Spurs is because of the intense press, it's actually an example of it working for once, probably because Spurs didn't have a defensive mentality in that game as they are similar reputation.

Often poor teams will have loads of possession and passes, despite being under constant pressure because they play 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 very defensive systems and stupidly manage to pass it around at the back under constant press but don't actually go anywhere, again because of the flaws of how the ME engine works. 

[zyfon5]

45 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

No it's not a plug and play tactic, it's one I created myself based on Hassenhutl's 4-2-2-2 system.  The lack of passes is a ME engine problem, not a tactic problem. 

There is no hoofball in my system and no hoofball is played, the overall instructions are shorter passing.  The fouls and the lack of passing for Spurs is because of the intense press, it's actually an example of it working for once, probably because Spurs didn't have a defensive mentality in that game as they are similar reputation.

Often poor teams will have loads of possession and passes, despite being under constant pressure because they play 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 very defensive systems and stupidly manage to pass it around at the back under constant press but don't actually go anywhere, again because of the flaws of how the ME engine works. 

Hi both teams have low number of passes but the more dominant side has less than 10 passes per shot is it really a ME problem? The AI can play whatever they like to get a result but the team that is very likely controlled by a human player choose to play a tactic that can generate one shot with less than 10 passes and proceed to complain that it is a problem of the ME. Please explain to me the logic behind it.