Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

[saihtam]

On 09/03/2020 at 13:08, duesouth said:

Now, with FM Touch and full fat FM there are already two modes essentially.  Perhaps it is guiding those who want to use exploit tactics to FM Touch (being able to use custom databases with this product would become an essential part of this solution) and those who use their own maybe logical/sensible tactics to full fat FM.  There are clearly a vast number of people who download tactics and love playing the game this way - and I don't want to suggest they shouldn't be able to play/enjoy the game - but I don't want it to be at the expense of how I, and many others, want to play it.  SI writing a ME to keep both "camps" happy makes a tough job even tougher, and tbh, I don't know it's possible.

Good overall post!

I have sometimes touched this topic, but it feels in my opinion like big blocking stone for the future of FM. I know low-end pc are big market and it is touchy subject
We really want to see more evolution in ME etc, but there must be some sacrifices then. For so long SI has used very low end system requirements for FMs and i believe it hinders the results we see in FM. Processor: Intel Pentium 4 (64-bit), Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 – 2.2 GHz + and Memory: 2 GB RAM... (looking this up again makes me sad)

It holds back natural growth of software production. Cant build up new ideas and mechanics top of each other if the specs are not there to support it. Might be reason why in march patch we have things more less fixed and in new version broken again. It is very small thing but damn happy to see this version we have 64bit version, so maybe they are getting ready for bigger update for next years fm. There must be some up in the specs, because if u see the same ones next version again, I highly sure that we end up in same discussions. Even if it works somewhat I would still be out as this shows lack of progress.

The reason why I pointed out your FM Touch subject. If we continue to use the same ME for PC and Touch, then we cant progress anywhere as they limit hugely to please touch platforms... My understanding is that they are basically same ME, maybe someone can correct me here.

Edited March 10, 2020 by saihtam

[Neil Brock]

32 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

A print from a Facebook group showing the quality of the ME 

The print isn't mine

No offence, but not really sure what that's supposed to represent? Here's a look at a bunch of Burnley fixtures in 17-18

Maybe with a bit more context that screenshot may be of interest, but showing that in football depending on setups consecutive matches can be tight doesn't mean all that much. 

[LucasBR]

It's just me who thinks the yellow cards are kind random? It doesn't show not even a highlight, just appears the card.

[Neil Brock]

6 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

It's just me who thinks the yellow cards are kind random? It doesn't show not even a highlight, just appears the card.

If you play in comprehensive highlights mode you should see all yellow cards. It's not random and every booking can be seen happen within the ME. 

[LucasBR]

1 minute ago, Neil Brock said:

If you play in comprehensive highlights mode you should see all yellow cards. It's not random and every booking can be seen happen within the ME. 

I'm playing on extended highlights, sometimes the cards just come through comments, not been shown during highlights.

[KUBI]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb LucasBR:

I'm playing on extended highlights, sometimes the cards just come through comments, not been shown during highlights.

comprehensive and extended highlights is not the same.

[LucasBR]

1 minute ago, KUBI said:

comprehensive and extended highlights is not the same.

That's right, my mistake, I thought comprehensive was below extended, thanks Kubi and Neil.

[d d]

44 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

If you play in comprehensive highlights mode you should see all yellow cards. It's not random and every booking can be seen happen within the ME. 

What about goals being scored, they don't always appear in the highlights or even in the commentary, is that because its not in comprehensive highlights

[bitzu_rock]

9 hours ago, bitzu_rock said:

On opponent instructions is the closing down option replaced by pressing ? What do i select if i want to close down an opposite player ? Thanks!

Is that right ?

[MrPompey]

1 hour ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

A print from a Facebook group showing the quality of the ME 

The print isn't mine

Oh, a print of the real life Premiership results on 7th March 2020  showing the quality of real life

[rp1966]

5 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Oh, a print of the real life Premiership results on 7th March 2020  showing the quality of real life

Pretty dreadful set of games (especially for Fantasy Football players) - lots of competition for last game on MOTD. Not typical though.

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by rp1966

[MrPompey]

Someone is trying to highlight the quality of FM showing a few sample match results, I'm showing the quality of real life in the premiership

I will raise a defect that FM is copying real life football with results and matching real-life set-piece % 

[sporadicsmiles]

So I thought I would put some numbers to the types of goals scored by the ME. Where I have watched every goal from the first 10 rounds of the division (which is 100 games total, 90 AIvsAI and 10 mevsAI) I am playing in (which actually is quite fun). I have classified where the goal comes from. So, for example, if there is a cross which rebounds in the box before being scored, it comes from a cross. Ditto for a pass. I have listed "none" as anything that was either a solo effort or came from a mistake; where there is no obvious type of goal. The point of this is to try to understand what I am seeing, and hopefully to help the devs by just analysing what I see so they do not have to. If it is of interest to the devs I can upload the save in the bugs forum, should they wish to take a look. I have been playing as Almere FC (I move there in a few weeks, so I am preparing ), in the Dutch second division. This is not me moaning, I am actually top of the league at the moment.

Here is a screenshot of the results (I am far too lazy to make a HTML table). 

I have divided passes into 3 types here. Short are passes from around the penalty area. Medium are passes from inside the opposition half, but not close to the box. Long are from a team's own half. Long balls here means passes directly from the keeper. Proper route one stuff, usually coupled to a defender making an error. I have counted something as a cross if it is lateral to the goal. So a low cross along the ground is counted as a cross rather than a pass (because it is a cross).

We are averaging 2.35 goals per game, which I think is pretty okay. 100 games is not huge, so there is chance that we are still skewing things with the occassional big result (we have had a 5-0 and a 7-1). 

60% of goals come from some kind of cross. The majority (40%) being from crosses in open play. The remainder being from set plays. I have generally seen that indirect free kicks (IFK) are not scored that much, but most of them lead to a shot, because attackers almost always seem to win headers. Corner goals are not really that common, a couple of big days has skewed this number (I will continue to do this for better statistics). 

Passes lead to 15% of the goals. Note that I have no counted passes that lead to long shots here. I am thinking about through balls, where a pass leads directly to a goal scoring chance. So a ball over the top, a ball into the box for a striker to run on to. That kind of thing. This is definitely much too low. 

Indeed, long shots are almost as common as goals from passes. I have noticed a whole bunch of long shots actually. Absolutely unstoppable beasts which come from nowhere. I am not sure if 13% is a good number for these (I do not have real life stats to hand). 

I guess the point here is to try to put some numbers to what people are seeing, and because hopefully this is something someone will find useful. Having done this, I think the reason why people are so frustrated is that there is nothing you can do to stop conceding these goals in many cases. The long shots are a normal part of the game, but no matter how well you defend all it takes is one deep cross to the back post to concede. Or to score, I find it equally frustrating when I win a tight game like this, because it feels like I do not deserve it. Anyway, like I said, if this is something that would be better suited to the bugs forum I can move it over there. 

[duff33]

So is FM Touch a bit more....casual? Easy going? Arcade-y when it comes to the ME? More likely to win or lose 4-3 in an end-to-end affair than lose 1-0 to a late corner?

[baris28]

Watching how goals scored in my youth team; 2 penalties, 1 deep setpiece and 2 long shots goals. That is what we get in 2020.. Hopefully better year will be for FM in 2021.  Otherwise people will lose faith about player attributes and how they are important in game. Seems like long  range goals related to 6-7 attributes. Game highlights rewards player quality. But it doesn't look natural about how quality player scores goals. Also see some IF(S) with good passing to other flank IF(A) long deep pass, result in goals in recent match engine. That was common through balls in my game. Central play and AM position very passive unfortunately.

[sporadicsmiles]

9 minutes ago, duff33 said:

So is FM Touch a bit more....casual? Easy going? Arcade-y when it comes to the ME? More likely to win or lose 4-3 in an end-to-end affair than lose 1-0 to a late corner?

Same ME, so you will see the same things. It just cuts back on some of the interactions.

[WelshMourinho]

2 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Indeed, long shots are almost as common as goals from passes. I have noticed a whole bunch of long shots actually. Absolutely unstoppable beasts which come from nowhere. I am not sure if 13% is a good number for these (I do not have real life stats to hand). 

The Mezzala feels like an absolute cheat code for this. Positions himself perfectly from overloads to have a clear crack at goal. 

[duff33]

31 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Same ME, so you will see the same things. It just cuts back on some of the interactions.

Thanks - think I might out things away until FM21 comes along; unsurprisingly, my Lyon experiment has just led me down the same path of disappointment and frustration.

[Demosisto]

Wow @sporadicsmiles, it seems like the numbers for crosses and passes should be swapped around!

 

On a separate note, I wanted to share some results from 2 A.I. games from the opening day of my 2020/21 Championship season. Really pushes the boundaries of realism considering the gulf in quality between the teams and the premier league quality attackers. Parking the bus a bit too effective? Also the average ratings were similar for both teams..?

Edited March 11, 2020 by Demosisto

[duesouth]

14 hours ago, saihtam said:

Good overall post!

I have sometimes touched this topic, but it feels in my opinion like big blocking stone for the future of FM. I know low-end pc are big market and it is touchy subject
We really want to see more evolution in ME etc, but there must be some sacrifices then. For so long SI has used very low end system requirements for FMs and i believe it hinders the results we see in FM. Processor: Intel Pentium 4 (64-bit), Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 – 2.2 GHz + and Memory: 2 GB RAM... (looking this up again makes me sad)

It holds back natural growth of software production. Cant build up new ideas and mechanics top of each other if the specs are not there to support it. Might be reason why in march patch we have things more less fixed and in new version broken again. It is very small thing but damn happy to see this version we have 64bit version, so maybe they are getting ready for bigger update for next years fm. There must be some up in the specs, because if u see the same ones next version again, I highly sure that we end up in same discussions. Even if it works somewhat I would still be out as this shows lack of progress.

The reason why I pointed out your FM Touch subject. If we continue to use the same ME for PC and Touch, then we cant progress anywhere as they limit hugely to please touch platforms... My understanding is that they are basically same ME, maybe someone can correct me here.

I think we should be able to have sensible discussions on here, no matter how "touchy" the subject.  If we can demonstrate our ability to do that, then I'm sure SI would interact more with us.

It is logical to believe they will have to up the specs to push the game forward.  I don't know how much it holds back the ME.  I know SI know users' specs, so it might be something that would cause sales to drop by a significant amount and thus not considered, I don't know.  I suspect the medium/longer term future will be Stadia - or alternative platforms of that nature.

[Neil Brock]

13 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

So I thought I would put some numbers to the types of goals scored by the ME. Where I have watched every goal from the first 10 rounds of the division (which is 100 games total, 90 AIvsAI and 10 mevsAI) I am playing in (which actually is quite fun). I have classified where the goal comes from. So, for example, if there is a cross which rebounds in the box before being scored, it comes from a cross. Ditto for a pass. I have listed "none" as anything that was either a solo effort or came from a mistake; where there is no obvious type of goal. The point of this is to try to understand what I am seeing, and hopefully to help the devs by just analysing what I see so they do not have to. If it is of interest to the devs I can upload the save in the bugs forum, should they wish to take a look. I have been playing as Almere FC (I move there in a few weeks, so I am preparing ), in the Dutch second division. This is not me moaning, I am actually top of the league at the moment.

Here is a screenshot of the results (I am far too lazy to make a HTML table). 

I have divided passes into 3 types here. Short are passes from around the penalty area. Medium are passes from inside the opposition half, but not close to the box. Long are from a team's own half. Long balls here means passes directly from the keeper. Proper route one stuff, usually coupled to a defender making an error. I have counted something as a cross if it is lateral to the goal. So a low cross along the ground is counted as a cross rather than a pass (because it is a cross).

We are averaging 2.35 goals per game, which I think is pretty okay. 100 games is not huge, so there is chance that we are still skewing things with the occassional big result (we have had a 5-0 and a 7-1). 

60% of goals come from some kind of cross. The majority (40%) being from crosses in open play. The remainder being from set plays. I have generally seen that indirect free kicks (IFK) are not scored that much, but most of them lead to a shot, because attackers almost always seem to win headers. Corner goals are not really that common, a couple of big days has skewed this number (I will continue to do this for better statistics). 

Passes lead to 15% of the goals. Note that I have no counted passes that lead to long shots here. I am thinking about through balls, where a pass leads directly to a goal scoring chance. So a ball over the top, a ball into the box for a striker to run on to. That kind of thing. This is definitely much too low. 

Indeed, long shots are almost as common as goals from passes. I have noticed a whole bunch of long shots actually. Absolutely unstoppable beasts which come from nowhere. I am not sure if 13% is a good number for these (I do not have real life stats to hand). 

I guess the point here is to try to put some numbers to what people are seeing, and because hopefully this is something someone will find useful. Having done this, I think the reason why people are so frustrated is that there is nothing you can do to stop conceding these goals in many cases. The long shots are a normal part of the game, but no matter how well you defend all it takes is one deep cross to the back post to concede. Or to score, I find it equally frustrating when I win a tight game like this, because it feels like I do not deserve it. Anyway, like I said, if this is something that would be better suited to the bugs forum I can move it over there. 

This is interesting to see, but we do already record these types of stats across multiple leagues over a seasonal basis. I mentioned in a previous post we output hundreds of different statistics in the match, including the types of assists, types of goals and many other things. Whilst this is helpful and interesting, the data we have internally is done over a wider range of matches. But not to knock what you've done as this type of feedback which goes to this level of depth is always going to be far more useful than anecdotal feedback. 

We compare our own internal data with real life data - there's more work to be done on this as everyone has their own rules for what qualifies as say a 'cross' or a short pass compared to a long pass. For instance we've seen examples where some 'match stats' on TV broadcasts don't count blocked shots to their total 'shots on goal', whilst others now store it as a separate 'stat' entirely. But as said. all really interesting stuff and definitely important with regard to trying to use stats to create part of in-game match balance. 

[sporadicsmiles]

12 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

This is interesting to see, but we do already record these types of stats across multiple leagues over a seasonal basis. I mentioned in a previous post we output hundreds of different statistics in the match, including the types of assists, types of goals and many other things. Whilst this is helpful and interesting, the data we have internally is done over a wider range of matches. But not to knock what you've done as this type of feedback which goes to this level of depth is always going to be far more useful than anecdotal feedback. 

We compare our own internal data with real life data - there's more work to be done on this as everyone has their own rules for what qualifies as say a 'cross' or a short pass compared to a long pass. For instance we've seen examples where some 'match stats' on TV broadcasts don't count blocked shots to their total 'shots on goal', whilst others now store it as a separate 'stat' entirely. But as said. all really interesting stuff and definitely important with regard to trying to create one of the elements of in-game match balance. 

Fair enough. And thanks for the info and feedback!

Edited March 11, 2020 by sporadicsmiles

[TheInvisibleMan]

Is anyone particularly enjoying or having much success on 20.4 with the latest match engine?

It feels completely different to me since this update was released. The way my team plays just seems to have completely changed. I don't know if I need to re-do my tactics if they were created on a previous update. 

Just really struggling to enjoy or get into the game since the latest patch. The previous match engine seemed the best one to me and now it's just changed again and really affected my team. My strikers are simply none existent.

Edited March 11, 2020 by TheInvisibleMan

[GOODNAME]

Hello

Any of SI stuff have confirmed that there will no be any changes in this ME?

Thanks

[Toonrock]

2 hours ago, TheInvisibleMan said:

Is anyone particularly enjoying or having much success on 20.4 with the latest match engine?

I just wonder, why there are so few Key Highlights...(???)

Been playing the same game again and again (testing), and when it´s on Extended Highlights, we play superb football with so many chances (mostly missed of course, I have Haaland on top for Dortmund and he´s obviously really bad at finishing...)

The game I test with is; Dortmund against Rapid Vienna (....Should really be no contest) ..And all my players are match fit...

If curious, watch the pkm.

Borussia Dortmund v SK Rapid Vienna.pkm

Edited March 11, 2020 by Toonrock

[MrPompey]

1 hour ago, GOODNAME said:

Hello

Any of SI stuff have confirmed that there will no be any changes in this ME?

Thanks

If you mean future ME changes then I dont think SI have and likely wouldnt say either way until they had one to release

Historically at this time of year we do not normally see ME changes. However if issues are logged with suitable statistics, examples, real life stats etc in the bugs forum then there is an increased chance of specific issues being looked at for the ME for FM21. Thats my suggestion anyway

[Meraklija Vujevic]

Won title with Mainz  in first season and main striker scored only 9 goals definitely current match engine is disaster.

 

Match engine even worse after last 2 updates now is 2/10 rating.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Meraklija Vujevic

[serg__23]

Not gonna lie, but this year I am very disspointed by FM and SI. 

After last patch there is a bug during distribution from opponent's GK posted by me in the Bug thread. After february update ME shall be polished. 

[MrPompey]

8 minutes ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

Won title with Mainz and main striker scored only 9 goals definitely current match engine is disaster.

 

Match engine even worse after last 2 updates now is 2/10 rating.

 

 

Which bit of your statement highlights the ME is a disaster?

The fact Mainz won the title or that your main striker only scored 9 goals ?

[Tiger666]

1 hour ago, GOODNAME said:

Hello

Any of SI stuff have confirmed that there will no be any changes in this ME?

Thanks

There will be no more changes to the match engine for FM20.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Tiger666

[Robioto]

I've given it another go, 6 months in I've decided to revert to FM2019. 

[Meraklija Vujevic]

1 minute ago, MrPompey said:

2 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Which bit of your statement highlights the ME is a disaster?

The fact Mainz won the title or that your main striker only scored 9 goals ?

that main striker scored only 9 goals!

 

[MrPompey]

1 minute ago, serg__23 said:

Not gonna lie, but this year I am very disspointed by FM and SI. 

After last patch there is a bug during distribution from opponent's GK posted by me in the Bug thread. After february update ME shall be polished. 

We have never had a polished and bug free ME ......EVER

I'm sure your GK distribution bug has been noted but it doesnt always means its targetted for a fix. Of course raising the bug in the bug forum gives the best chance of getting fixed

On a personal note I'm not feeling it with this ME either and have raised a number of bugs also

[MrPompey]

5 minutes ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

 

so your main striker has a scoring record of 1 goal in 3 games. In real life I think he has only scored 3 goals so far this season?

Perhaps your tactics are not using your striker as the only outlet for goal scoring. I assume someone else is scoring them, I wonder why that is?

[Meraklija Vujevic]

1 minute ago, MrPompey said:

so your main striker has a scoring record of 1 goal in 3 games. In real life I think he has only scored 3 goals so far this season?

Perhaps your tactics are not using your striker as the only outlet for goal scoring. I assume someone else is scoring them, I wonder why that is?

before last update he was scoring minimum 20 goals per season.

 

[MrPompey]

2 minutes ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

before last update he was scoring minimum 20 goals per season.

 

ahh now that is interesting assuming no change to your tactics or other players in squad

[Meraklija Vujevic]

1 minute ago, MrPompey said:

ahh now that is interesting assuming no change to your tactics or other players in squad

after last update I struggled with all 3 of my tactics even they stating that they dint do any changes to match engine

 

alot of people can tell you that some tactics droped in perfomanse after last update

 

[serg__23]

6 минут назад, MrPompey сказал:

We have never had a polished and bug free ME ......EVER

I'm sure your GK distribution bug has been noted but it doesnt always means its targetted for a fix. Of course raising the bug in the bug forum gives the best chance of getting fixed

On a personal note I'm not feeling it with this ME either and have raised a number of bugs also

In my opinion it shall be targeted for a quick fix, because whats the reason to play when your wide forwards are in cm strata (with bad tackling and aerial presence) and cms in aml/r strata and aftrer they run to their designated position creating one more transition when you are completly vanurable and they are in half-positions.

[MrPompey]

1 hour ago, serg__23 said:

In my opinion it shall be targeted for a quick fix, because whats the reason to play when your wide forwards are in cm strata (with bad tackling and aerial presence) and cms in aml/r strata and aftrer they run to their designated position creating one more transition when you are completly vanurable and they are in half-positions.

Well if you have raised the bug in the bug for forum with plenty of examples thats the best you can do

[Lukecr1986]

Has the championship transfer window been changed on the latest update? 

[Bobek]

I just got a question. I did play a southmapton they have 2 players on loan from english clubs ( walker peters and danso) 

In witner transfer window I bought Danso and after that i still couldnt loan other English player from other team - (becouse I can have only 2 English players on long term loan but there was only Walker Peters after i Bought Danso) 

Is it bug?

 

[KUBI]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Bobek:

I just got a question. I did play a southmapton they have 2 players on loan from english clubs ( walker peters and danso) 

In witner transfer window I bought Danso and after that i still couldnt loan other English player from other team - (becouse I can have only 2 English players on long term loan but there was only Walker Peters after i Bought Danso) 

Is it bug?

 

If the rule is that you can only have to players on long term  loans, you used those two spots, and I guess it does not matter that you bought one of those two players in the winter transfer window.

[Bobek]

15 minutes ago, KUBI said:

If the rule is that you can only have to players on long term  loans, you used those two spots, and I guess it does not matter that you bought one of those two players in the winter transfer window.

I mean there is rule that you can't loan more than 2 english players at same time so i guess after I bought Danso i shoudl be able to loan another one..

 

[Novem9]

5 часов назад, Toonrock сказал:

I just wonder, why there are so few Key Highlights...(???)

Been playing the same game again and again (testing), and when it´s on Extended Highlights, we play superb football with so many chances (mostly missed of course, I have Haaland on top for Dortmund and he´s obviously really bad at finishing...)

The game I test with is; Dortmund against Rapid Vienna (....Should really be no contest) ..And all my players are match fit...

If curious, watch the pkm.

Borussia Dortmund v SK Rapid Vienna.pkm 70 \u043a\u0411 · 3 downloads

fmtouch, typical game, just lol. Roll of the dice

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Novem9

[Toonrock]

26 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

fmtouch, typical game, just lol. Roll of the dice

 

W h a t ?! ...That screenshot literally hurts my eyes(!) 

[mutwale]

In FM20 it seems impossible to get a goalkeeper´s average rating in a season above 7.00, also average ratings in general seems lower than FM19 or FM18.

[stevemc]

Won the Premier League title with 4 games to go, at home to Leicester City - immediately after the game, it cuts to us lifting the trophy on the pitch.

Surely that should happen after the last game of the season, or the last home game?

[Neil Brock]

13 minutes ago, stevemc said:

Won the Premier League title with 4 games to go, at home to Leicester City - immediately after the game, it cuts to us lifting the trophy on the pitch.

Surely that should happen after the last game of the season, or the last home game?

Just did a quick search and normally it's done on the last home game of the season (assuming the title has been clinched by that point), so yeah looks like you're right. Probably worth raising on the bugs forum, especially if you've got a save from just before that fixture so we can reproduce it.

Thanks. 

[sporadicsmiles]

11 hours ago, TheInvisibleMan said:

Is anyone particularly enjoying or having much success on 20.4 with the latest match engine?

It feels completely different to me since this update was released. The way my team plays just seems to have completely changed. I don't know if I need to re-do my tactics if they were created on a previous update. 

Just really struggling to enjoy or get into the game since the latest patch. The previous match engine seemed the best one to me and now it's just changed again and really affected my team. My strikers are simply none existent.

There were no changes to the ME with the data updates. This is pretty clear just from watching games. 

I have never had any problems winning games in FM20. Sensible tactics will in general bring good results. I find the football a little bit joyless though.

[ChelseaFan]

Why do wingers and full backs pause (thus allowing full backs to get back into position) before crossing?

Realllllly annoying