Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

[Pasonen]

49 minutes ago, danstam said:

I personally think the more realistic the game gets, the better. But there is a real question as to whether this should be the goal. After all, most football matches irl can be described as boring.

What makes football a living thing and interesting even when game is defensive?

1)Its the attacking and defending as a team. When attacking teams player looks left defending team allready react and its never only one player moving to def or att. Its the whole formation what moves. More movement is needed. 

2) Not only perfect passes but allso semi-good passes are needed mutch more because those cause individuals test their attributes and game is not so predictable.

3) Game needs more little fouls and quick freekicks. Teams dont nearly allways kick long deep freekick.

4) Players form def line not other way around. They just dont stand in line like statues.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Pasonen

[Lucas]

1 hour ago, Deisler26 said:

Noticed a heck of a lot more driver crashes of FM20 with this new update.

I'm kinda anal about my graphics driver updates and I check everytime I turn the laptop on.

But I've had 5 crashes so far since 20.4

Hi @Deisler26 have you reported these in our tech issues forum? One of the team could take a look and advise if you are getting crash dumps.

[ferrarinseb]

@Neil Brock Can you tell me which attribute governs the Defensive Width of AI managers? I checked their Attributes but can only see Width but not Attack width / Defensive width like we users have.

[WilltheWolf92]

Better newgens pictures should be necessary in the next edition because now 9/10 look the same and all have a beard at 16 years old. i hope there's a plan for better faces.

[kiwityke1983]

4 hours ago, WilltheWolf92 said:

Better newgens pictures should be necessary in the next edition because now 9/10 look the same and all have a beard at 16 years old. i hope there's a plan for better faces.

I've had plenty who had both a beard and were grey at 16. I've seen younger looking 60 year olds. 

[KUBI]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb kiwityke1983:

I've had plenty who had both a beard and were grey at 16. I've seen younger looking 60 year olds. 

That's because there is no aging with newgens. If they are set as bearded or bald they are right from the start.

[Bry]

5 hours ago, WilltheWolf92 said:

Better newgens pictures should be necessary in the next edition because now 9/10 look the same and all have a beard at 16 years old. i hope there's a plan for better faces.

This kind of feedback can surely only hinder SI in progressing the game. It's just emotional hyperbole. Sorry to pick on you specifically Will, it's just one of many examples on this forum. 

Here are the first 10 16 year-old players I could find. I don't think 9/10 look the same, and they certainly don't all have a beard*. Then people will say, "Aw come on, I wasn't being literal!". Well, we should be literal, if our feedback is going to be of any use.

*I do agree, however, that even 2 x 16 year-old players here having beards is slightly unsettling.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Bry

[Icy]

Seeing that the other thread that imho had a very civilized and constructive talk about the ME was just closed by Lucas, should we keep the discussion here mixed with all the other stuff? anywhere else? or is it just that SI doesn't want more talk/feedback about the ME? I'd like to know if to continue or just give up.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Icy

[TheInvisibleMan]

Just when I was getting fed up of the game & the match engine... it goes and pulls me back in!

(We won't go into how the goals were scored though )

[zachalxnder]

Has anyone had any strange swings in locker room morale? I had excellent support from the team and excellent tactical understanding, yet after the World Cup in 2022, my locker room atmosphere dropped from “Excellent” to “Good” and stayed there. This is despite having gone on an unbeaten run, having won many matches by 4+ goals, and all of my squad seemed to be around “Exceptional/Perfect” morale. It doesn’t seem to be going up either. If it does, it drops back down, or it’s very gradual. It’s been like this for months. I did do a staff purge and brought in some higher quality staff members - would that be causing this? That seems rather bizarre. It isn’t necessarily hurting my team performance at all, but I would expect the atmosphere to be much better by now. I’m questioning whether it’s a bug and the atmosphere just isn’t being updated correctly. 

[duesouth]

I was calling for a statement from SI on the ME - and that was delivered on Friday.  Now, it was the polar opposite of what I was hoping for - but at least I know where I stand.  My choice now is whether to continue my FM20 save (just starting my 10th season) - or throw that time/work away and go back to FM19, or even try to buy a copy of FM17 and give that a dart.  In truth, I suspect that's why people are still playing FM20 - not because it's a top ME.  However, fair play to Neil and Lucas for posting in here over the weekend, as if it was my job, I wouldn't have wanted to do it!

I haven't given feedback on the changes within the winter update, but will do so to conclude my feedback given with each patch.

The key thing for me in the change list was this:

Improvements to player behaviour and instructions when defending set-pieces

I haven't really seen much difference.  I am seeing less direct free kicks score - particularly the animation where a keeper who is normally a cross between Superman and Inspector Gadget suddenly develops T-Rex arms and basically palms the ball into the net!  However, corners (near post) and free kicks from deep (far post) are still lethal and OP.  Even when free kicks are from deep and a central position (thus lacking the angle from wide where someone can curl the ball into a difficult to defend area), they are still OP.  Easy to see - hard to fix.  One thing to mention is going back into FM19 - I noticed my keeper (with similar stats to my FM20 keeper) dominated his 6 yard box far more than in FM20, particularly defending corners - that might be one for devs to consider for FM21.  Thanks for trying, but on this point, I'll have to say 1 out of 10 I'm afraid.

However, I have noticed the change with the club vision logic - and I like that.  In a save you might be top of one division and get promoted - thus playing Positive/Attacking football against mainly parked buses - but a promotion might well lead you to a change in style (the hunter becomes the hunted) depending on the gap between one division and another.  I didn't feel the game was taking that into account - but that's been much better - 8/10 here.  An example of where it's still weak would be my team (mid table - season goal - avoid relegation) losing to Roma who were top and won the league with several games to spare - and the board saying they were worried about a 3-1 loss.  Actually, we were 2-1 down with 10 minutes to go and I went for it and got done on the break, but I was really happy with how we played - think the board AI should see that too.

Final Non-ME FM20 Feedback

Outside of the ME, FM20 is a much stronger product than FM19.  For me, the only things I would like improved are:

The early report on your youth intake, which you get in December, tends to be pretty inaccurate.  My last youth intake is an example - I was told it was a "Golden Generation" - I ended up signing just 5 players from it and only 1 had 4+ star PA.  I know poaching is a reason why this may be inaccurate, but I can't make any decisions on winter window signings based on the report - and it is therefore not a particularly worthwhile tool.

The screen where you make first team squad players available for U20/U18 fixtures is far worse than FM19.  Please can we go back to the FM19 screen as it was far more user friendly?

I find "runs" - be that winning or losing - are too easy to go on/hard to get out of.  I know if I lose 2 in a row - even if I'm in a relegation battle and have played the 1st and 2nd placed teams - I'm in trouble.  Morale/confidence is important in all sports, but it does feel OP - but then that was the case way back in CM...

Overall 9 out of 10 - and a real upgrade on FM19.

Now for the ME...

Final FM20 ME Feedback

In my main save, I started out in L7 in Italy - and over the save have got promoted all the way to Serie A.  I've therefore played as the favourite - and the underdog.

When playing as the favourite, boy, it's hard work - and it's flat out dull.  When you play against a parked bus every single game, it gets boring very, very quickly.  Now, for SI to balance a realistic ME and the fact FM is a game and therefore should be fun is tough.  That being said, I strongly feel the balance has been lost here because when playing as the favourite, I did not enjoy it one bit.  I went from L7 to L3 with 4 straight promotions, but I didn't enjoy it - and really I should have done.

Now, playing as the underdog it's different - but the same - as everyone does the same thing against you - they counter-press.  Counter-press does feel OP.  I felt there was a penalty for doing it in the original pre-release beta - but the fix for the official release took that away in order to remove too many 1 on 1's (in my pre-release save I was using a 4-1-4-1 on balanced/cautious, playing a direct counter attacking style - and my striker had 25 goals - my striker in the last 3 or 4 seasons when I'm the underdog struggled to score).

I've rather felt as the FM20 life cycle has gone on that those who use downloaded tactics which mostly play with a high line and counter-press are driving the direction of the ME.  This is a very complex issue for SI.  I strongly feel in terms of reality that playing a high line and counter pressing should come with a penalty - you should get hit on the break and if your training schedule isn't heavily physically oriented, your players should be on their knees - especially if they play 3 games in a week.

I'm a Southampton fan - and Ralph Hasenhuttl likes to press.  However, in some games (e.g. West Ham away recently) that penalty for an average side was clear.  It stresses your back 4 and when you have average/poor defenders, in some games you will come unstuck.  I think also the fact we don't press all the time - and instead use pressing triggers makes it different to FM.  However, I fully acknowledge pressing triggers would be super difficult to code - and I think for most players, rather too in depth to want to set them up.  That might be why it doesn't perhaps take the physical toll what you see in the ME suggests it should.

Anyway, in FM20 - ever since the patch for the official release - I have not seen enough of a penalty for teams pressing.  Trying to play a direct 4-1-4-1 was very possible in FM19 (and I went back and played a few games last week to check) and in the pre-release beta - but I felt way harder against even sides around you in the table since that pre-release beta was patched.  It does lead you to have to counter-press yourself just to try to win a few games.  I feel in FM20 you are rather forced down a road to play counter-pressing football when you are an underdog - and if you don't want dull football, as a favourite too.

So, it's different - but the same.  In reality, I feel I'd be seeing a lot more variety from how teams played.  I'd really like to see the AI managers try to skin the cat differently - as pitting your wits against the same system every week doesn't help make the game interesting, challenging or fun.

Overall, I find the ME animations too repetitive, which doesn't help the fun factor.  The set pieces being OP sucks the life out of it.  The lack of central play issue has been done to death, but it's a problem - I find that forward central players play with their backs to goal way too much - but then, there's not much space to face the goal, I guess.  Again, clearly as it's not been fixed, a complex issue - but some massive changes are needed.

Overall ME rating: 3 out of 10

I ended up leaving a "thumbs down" review on Steam recently.  It wasn't a great ranking system, as for me FM20 is in the middle - but it very much is ME is poor - everything else is really good.  However, as the ME is so important, it does drag things down.  I honestly don't know if I'll continue playing FM20.  Having sunk a lot of hours into growing my team to the top flight in my save, I want to keep growing and see if I can qualify for Europe or even win something - but while I love growing the club, improving facilities, signing players, using the new tools to help me here - it's like taking a pin to a balloon when you play matches.  Immersion and enjoyment just vanish - frustration quickly rises to boiling point...  I've been using commentary only, but that makes it harder, as you obviously can't see issues and it isn't how I want to play the game, but I just can't do even key highlights...

Now, the solution - likely very tough as not everyone would agree on the problem, let alone on a solution.  Over the weekend, a thread was raised about difficulty levels in FM.  My first thought was that might be a good idea - but on reflection, I changed my mind.  Instead, it feels like we need two different "modes".  One to allow the exploit style tactics - and one where the code against those types of tactics means they pay a heavy price for having everything warped up to 11 (get stuck in, high line, counter-press, prevent GK distribution, pass into space, dribble more etc. etc.).  Way back in CM03/04 Diablo was the exploit tactic - but it was patched.  In FM20, it feels like the patch has been to help the exploit tactics.  Perhaps have a mode where these exploit tactics are patched - and one which is more lenient with them.

Now, with FM Touch and full fat FM there are already two modes essentially.  Perhaps it is guiding those who want to use exploit tactics to FM Touch (being able to use custom databases with this product would become an essential part of this solution) and those who use their own maybe logical/sensible tactics to full fat FM.  There are clearly a vast number of people who download tactics and love playing the game this way - and I don't want to suggest they shouldn't be able to play/enjoy the game - but I don't want it to be at the expense of how I, and many others, want to play it.  SI writing a ME to keep both "camps" happy makes a tough job even tougher, and tbh, I don't know it's possible.

I do hope SI can find a solution - but I think it's worthwhile for players/customers to see how complex issues around SI trying to improve the game are.  Just scan this thread - there are wildly differing opinions - and often if another person doesn't agree with you, they're an idiot (hats off to the mods!).  It's worth remembering that we all see the game differently.  It's not a game that's played the same way by people, it's so vast, we call attack it differently.  If someone loves the ME, I don't personally agree with them, but I'm not going to shoot them down for enjoying playing - I'm genuinely happy for them.  So, let's try to get along a little more on this thread - let's try to get somewhat of a consensus to help SI with a direction.  I'd also love to see SI share their planned direction for FM21 and perhaps beyond - but having read the last few pages I certainly understand there's probably little chance of that.

In concluding, as someone who suffers from anxiety and depression, I do think the "Be Kind" message is much needed in the modern world.  If we do that on here, I suspect SI are more likely to communicate with us and more people will feel confident enough to post.

[Lucas]

Thanks for taking the time for a thoughtful post @duesouth 

[Neil Brock]

2 hours ago, Icy said:

Seeing that the other thread that imho had a very civilized and constructive talk about the ME was just closed by Lucas, should we keep the discussion here mixed with all the other stuff? anywhere else? or is it just that SI doesn't want more talk/feedback about the ME? I'd like to know if to continue or just give up.

Lucas covered this when when closing the thread - it was essentially repeating what was already being discussed in here and what appears on the first page of this feedback thread. If you want to discuss feedback then feel free to do so here. You want to discuss tactics and how they work in the ME we'd suggest the Tactics and Training Discussion. If you have a bug, please use the bugs forum.

Just as a reminder of the rules set out for the feedback thread, please see below:

• Please try to keep any feedback constructive. Help us to help you by giving details. 
• Respect other opinions. We don't expect you to agree with everyone, but take the time to read and respect their position.
• Let everyone have their say. What we've found recently is a handful of the same users dictating and rather dominating the discussion. Please allow everyone to have their say and don't allow this thread to become an echo chamber.
• Take Tactical Discussion elsewhere. We've seen a lot of posts focus on the tactical side of the game and whilst this is interesting, it's much more appropriate discussion for our Tactics, Training and Strategies Discussion.

[andu1]

Strikers can't score 1 v 1 ? Tell that to Lautaro, 4 goals from 4 clear cut chances, not even a single set piece goal.

 

https://imgur.com/767H0gq

[Novem9]

36 минут назад, Neil Brock сказал:

If you want to discuss feedback then feel free to do so here

Oh yeah until you say 'enough' and block access for thread for 2 weeks at least  feel free, absolutely

[JamieTC13]

18 hours ago, Deisler26 said:

Noticed a heck of a lot more driver crashes of FM20 with this new update.

I'm kinda anal about my graphics driver updates and I check everytime I turn the laptop on.

But I've had 5 crashes so far since 20.4

That's what i have been getting mate it is really bad for a game to crash so much

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by jckc221013jamie

[Neil Brock]

13 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Oh yeah until you say 'enough' and block access for thread for 2 weeks at least  feel free, absolutely

I've updated my original post to clarify that whilst we encourage people to post feedback, that we don't want certain users to dominate the discussion for their own interests. Thanks for pointing that out. 

[ferrarinseb]

does any one know which attribute governs the defensive width for AI managers?

[Novem9]

14 минут назад, Neil Brock сказал:

I've updated my original post to clarify that whilst we encourage people to post feedback, that we don't want certain users to dominate the discussion for their own interests. Thanks for pointing that out. 

So dont close separate threads if people want to discuss in place where is no a problem for SI? This is forum, a place for discussion as I understand meaning of this word

[ChelseaFan]

finally enjoying the match engine again.

However, attacking midfielders and strikers are still under powered.

 

[redders1977]

19 hours ago, rp1966 said:

This pretty much mirrors my feelings about scorelines.  The outcome of any game should be entirely an emergent phenomenon, but it often feels that there are artificial constraints in place to stop outcomes getting too far from RL averages rather than being true to what has happened on the pitch.  

The trouble is SI are trying to satisfy two conflicting audiences - those who focus on how the individual game plays, who want what they are seeing as good chances to be scored at a rate commensurate with the quality of those chances, and those who look at the overall stats and complain whenever it starts getting a few %age points away from points or goal tallies of the RL league they are comparing with.

Personally, I think the stats obsessives are going to end up killing the game.  The moment you press continue for the very first time in a game you enter an alternative football universe. You literally cannot play a season in FM that matches the teams in the real world because even if you set no transfers in the first window it still allows loans, and most AI teams will take advantage. That's before probability has its way with match results, injuries and manager sackings. 

The expectation should be for 'pretty close to IRL' in the first season, and increasing drift thereafter.

Ultimately it comes down to how realistically did each individual game play out and that is where we have a problem at the moment, because there is a disconnect between quality of chances and chances taken. Where that is coming from is where the forum goes round in circles of speculation. But statistical averages and comparisons with the real world will only allow you a 'ballpark' guide to whether you're getting things right. Averages and league level stats can hide a lot of anomalous behaviour in the ME for the individual games that make up those higher level stats.

 

Absolutely, i can go on a winning run of 7 or 8 games then for no reason I'll lose at home to the bottom club. A few dodgy results later and I'm on another winning run. You might say that's what happens in real life but it just feels scripted, especially when you've had 20 shots, and your opponent has scored from their only one.

[rafaelbenitez]

2 hours ago, duesouth said:

 

Good post but I don't agree with your solution. As someone who plays a lot of FM Touch and uses his own tactics, that would just completely devalue that version to be viewed as a game for "exploit" tactics.  The difference between FMT and the full game should only be on the off the pitch requirements.

Exploit tactics are going to happen regardless of the ME imo. There's always going to be someone who puts together 100+ instructions that the AI just won't be able to cope with that creates an exploit. SI should just focus on developing an ME that supports a variety of playing styles. If people want to exploit the game, that's on them.

[duesouth]

2 minutes ago, rafaelbenitez said:

Good post but I don't agree with your solution. As someone who plays a lot of FM Touch and uses his own tactics, that would just completely devalue that version to be viewed as a game for "exploit" tactics.  The difference between FMT and the full game should only be on the off the pitch requirements.

Exploit tactics are going to happen regardless of the ME imo. There's always going to be someone who puts together 100+ instructions that the AI just won't be able to cope with that creates an exploit. SI should just focus on developing an ME that supports a variety of playing styles. If people want to exploit the game, that's on them.

Cheers.  My idea came from the thread over the weekend about difficulty levels, so I thought maybe "modes".  But, yes, I see your point - and figure I would feel the same, and I should probably have thought of that!  A mode for each of FM and FM Touch starts to get a bit hard work to develop/maintain, which might end that idea!

It's so hard for SI to have one ME to keep all of us happy.  I guess for me it felt like the original pre-release beta if you had a high line and pressed, the AI countered you with long balls, which led to the 1 on 1's (and I was doing that too - I thought the ME was the best of FM20, although there were too many 1 on 1's).  That ME wasn't well received and the change then had a negative impact for me, which I don't think SI quite resolved.  Having gone back into FM19 last week, I tried the same tactic in both games with San Marino Calcio in Serie A (an underdog just promoted), and what I saw in extended highlights felt more logical in FM19 - certainly it felt like I could play that style in FM19, but I don't in FM20 as I seem to invite far more pressure and give up a lot more chances.

So, yes, a ME where all logically and well-thought out tactics can succeed - but also I think it would really help if the AI played you differently.  If you are near/at the top of the league = park the bus; if you are mid/lower table = counter-press you, either control possession or gegenpress is all I've seen in Serie A over my first two seasons with an underdog.  Perhaps AI managers who sticks to their identity more, and those identities are coded to be more varied (which they are irl).  As I said, I'm a Southampton fan, with a manager who likes to press.  Away to Liverpool recently, he didn't park the bus and still pressed (but with triggers, so it wasn't completely like under 11's "chase the ball" football) - in the end we lost 4-0, but I suspect in FM, the AI Saints manager parks the bus, even if its AI Ralph.

I'm not sure what percentage of players use exploit/downloaded tactics as opposed to creating their own.  I suspect it's a high number though.  Just checking Knap's FM19/20 download thread in the tactics forum, I can see it has over 1 million views () and TFF's FM20 thread almost 270,000 - so OK a very high number then!!  So, SI absolutely has to keep that element of their customer base happy, which made me think of having different "modes".  FM19 was my first FM - I found it dead easy to create a tactic - but it's much harder to create a good tactic!  Because it's hard and you can fall into traps of having instructions which conflict, I think it does turn people off (I'm pig headed, so I read a bunch, watched stuff on YouTube and kept plugging away - well, still am!) and many don't do this and download them.  If they enjoy FM with a downloaded tactic - fair play to them - but that's a pretty big voice if they don't work, or give result to something like the 1 on 1's, for SI to deal with...

Quite how you code a ME, I have zero clue - but one that allows someone like me wanting to play a cautious/balanced 4-1-4-1, or maybe a 4-1-2-2-1 at times at home - standard d-line, lower loe and not counter-press - and the people who download tactics both to enjoy the ME - that would seem to make the task a lot more difficult.

Hopefully, SI can come up with a solution.  I certainly don't envy them the task of finding one!

[He can't believe he's missed it]

Still plenty of flaws in this ME and trying to play possession football may be pretty tough, I've weirdly had a lot of success getting my striker to score in this system, a lot of tap ins or getting slipped in behind. The number 10 remains fairly useless but performances and results are incredible so i'm almost scared to tinker with it. 

If anyone is in my position where they were really struggling to get into a save at all, I recommend reading that article that came out a few weeks ago which talked about striking roles and complimenting each other etc. I wanted a quick system that featured getting quick balls to a target man where the am's would feed off him, and this works.

Attached a few photos if anyone wants to see, It previously had the RB on WB- attack and the rcm was box to box in the league below but I was getting torn apart, this has a nice balance and getting a lot out of my two target men.

edit - should also point out the am in the picture is not my usual first choice.

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by He can't believe he's missed it

[gpassosbh]

57 minutes ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

Still plenty of flaws in this ME and trying to play possession football may be pretty tough, I've weirdly had a lot of success getting my striker to score in this system, a lot of tap ins or getting slipped in behind. The number 10 remains fairly useless but performances and results are incredible so i'm almost scared to tinker with it. 

If anyone is in my position where they were really struggling to get into a save at all, I recommend reading that article that came out a few weeks ago which talked about striking roles and complimenting each other etc. I wanted a quick system that featured getting quick balls to a target man where the am's would feed off him, and this works.

Attached a few photos if anyone wants to see, It previously had the RB on WB- attack and the rcm was box to box in the league below but I was getting torn apart, this has a nice balance and getting a lot out of my two target men.

edit - should also point out the am in the picture is not my usual first choice.

What article you mean?

[KlaaZ]

Just started a new game with Ajax, and I noticed that apart from their individual TV deal, they have no sponsorship deals. Is this normal?

[craigcwwe]

1 hour ago, gpassosbh said:

What article you mean?

https://www.footballmanager.com/the-byline/get-most-your-strikers-wednesday-wisdom

[Zemahh]

Has anyone tried managing their set pieces carefully and seeing if excessive amount of goals from them is still an issue? Personally, although I enjoy "minmaxing", I never bothered with set pieces too much, because I simply found them too tedious. And I still do, there should absolutely be a quicker way of seeing who is instructed with what at set pieces, without having to manually click through all the different routines and their subsections. Over the course of the season, it's easy to end up with a few changes in the starting eleven you originally created the routines for, so having some sort of a list where you could quickly notice issues such as your midget winger going back for corners or your 6'7" target man staying up, would be very useful.

However, after conceding multiple goals from indirect free-kicks at the start of the season, I bit the bullet and sorted them out. My players clearly aren't to be trusted with man marking, so I changed to zonal instead and switched them around a little, according to their attributes. I also set up nickname markers for players that are especially bad in the air, so that I'm reminded of them in case I end up subbing them on and can make quick changes. Since then, I haven't yet conceded a single goal from set pieces, but I'll wait until the end of the season before jumping to conclusions.

The default routines can be really poor; and with every club having a different squad and different attributes at different positions, it's impossible to create a single set of routines that would work as "plug'n'play" for everyone. Could it be that the match engine now punishes such tactical issues more harshly (intended or not) and because people tend to not bother with set pieces, which has even been said on this forum many times before (and understandably so), they're now having issues which they weren't having before?

Anyway, just a thought on set pieces. Long shots on the other hand, are a different story. I can't think of a way to reduce conceding them, without focusing on them too much and changing my overachieving tactic drastically, so I'll write my Vanarama South stars scoring absolute worldies on regular basis down as the match engine interpreting them differently than shown (which I can be fine with, as long as they're not completely random and an actual bug).

Apart from that, I'm enjoying FM 20 very much. If the match engine was a little more enjoyable to watch, I would give it a 10/10. The whole experience seems very smooth and straight forward, I find myself flying through the save, while still controlling everything. I love tiny little additions such as being able to incorporate playing time happiness or ability progress graph into the squad view, that I now wouldn't be able to live without. I feel the game definitely gets a lot more stick than it actually deserves, but ultimately the match engine has always been, and always will be, a be-all and end-all of this game.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Zemahh

[spiritdonkey]

Guys, is this the last version of ME or we can wait for some ME updates? Someone knows? 

[Lucas]

@Nick_CB Please don’t post misinformation in the thread and mislead people asking honest questions. 
 

@spiritdonkey Yes, you can play with the latest match engine.  

[Kingstontom88]

9 hours ago, duesouth said:

I honestly don't know if I'll continue playing FM20.  Having sunk a lot of hours into growing my team to the top flight in my save, I want to keep growing and see if I can qualify for Europe or even win something - but while I love growing the club, improving facilities, signing players, using the new tools to help me here - it's like taking a pin to a balloon when you play matches.  Immersion and enjoyment just vanish - frustration quickly rises to boiling point...

This is a perfect summary (within a very well put together post) that sums up my feeling to a tee

[odigweg]

On 08/03/2020 at 13:45, danstam said:

I agree partially, I think this is why gegenpressing tactics are so overpowered, because using this style I think you can create space the way Man Utd have using this style in the game (even though I wouldn't describe Man Utd as gegenpressing irl). There's definitely too many shots in the game. I think individual attributes in this game are definitely more important than ever before, because for example playing as Chelsea Abraham fits the advanced forward role really well in terms of attributes and he scores tonnes of goals and gets lots of chances in my game, but Batshuayi, who lacks key attributes in off-the-ball movement and such can barely get a sniff in the game. I just disagree that there is a complete lack of movement and creativity, but it is arguably too hard to achieve in the game. With a good advanced forward you can definitely get good striker movement though (I've also had unusually great success with target men, and they can score a lot with their feet and even get in behind). 

I personally think the more realistic the game gets, the better. But there is a real question as to whether this should be the goal. After all, most football matches irl can be described as boring.

 

First, in response to your post about the Man City game. One game isn't indicative of a trend or "an issue with the ME". If what happened in the Manchester Derby happens in one or two games in the ME (maybe even a few) then I would never complain about the striker thing or the central play/set pieces issue. However, I think the problem seems to lie in the fact that such situations tend to happen in almost every single game. Even in my first season in charge of Arsenal, pretty much every team in the land adopted the low block, narrow defense which is not tremendously realistic. I get teams adjusting to how my team plays, but it's never that drastic that fast. Surely, certain teams would find other ideas for how to play against me.

Secondly, the striker issue: I never had a problem with the striker success rate in terms of goals. My issue is with the way the strikers seem to move. Perhaps you're right and one can find good movement with an Advance Forward or another specific role. But doesn't that hugely contradict the point of a game that should allow different styles of play. Most of the other striker roles, especially the ones that require more dropping deep and more exploitation of space, seem to lack the movement and creativity. I've been trying to replicate a False 9 tactical set up but the best I get is when I play a lone Shadow Striker as opposed to playing a False 9. What makes this harder to bare, is the fact that I have successfully done this one previous versions of FM (particularly pre-2019). 

[bartdude]

I'd love to try the updates or ME but have now given up on FM20 and reverted to FM19 as I'm still suffering from an inexcusable stutter in 3D match play,despite owning a high end PC. However that's been covered and commented on many times in the bugs forum

[WelshMourinho]

@Zemahh, that's exactly what I have done, and the results speak for themselves.

My Stoke side conceded just 1 corner in 46 league games last season, with that goal coming on the 44th match day. We conceded 2 from IFKs, and 0 from DFKs.

We also romped our way to about 13 corner goals, so in that sense I do think set pieces may still be an issue. You can 100% stop conceding set pieces, I've seen it myself. The AI, however, can't.

Tbf I've also found I've got my AMC doing incredibly well. 8 games into the Premier League season where we're predicted to finish 17th and he's got a 7.59 average rating, and we sit in 3rd. 

This ME is wonky, and the attacking play does lack, but you can absolutely work your way around that. 

[duff33]

Great post by duesouth higher up; pretty much nails it.

UI is great, lots of positives there, but come game time I'm just deflated now. As I've noted before, I thought the beta that came at around Christmas time balanced the ME out well, either side of that it's been a mix of frustration at clear cut chances bein squandered over and over, to what we have now - which feels...dull, to be honest. Feel too reliant on set pieces or worldies; going a goal down feels like death most of the time.

It's just not fun anymore; I play to take my mind off things, not to be left feeling frustrated, deflated, or bored.

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by duff33

[hagedisboy]

My left back with 8 crossing has 15 assists in 14 games... shows the lack of central play this year. SI did an absolute terrible job with the ME in my opinion. Can’t believe you are telling me that there won’t be another update. 

[Bobek]

I tried to enjoy FM 20. I played 120 hours and I can't stand this ME. Simulator of set pieces 2020. 

Last game I played against Bournemoth I lost 4 goals from set pieces and 3 from corners - hattrick by Ake. Lost 4:1. Cool game.

Im adding pkm if someone is interested in watching this "enjoyable" ME. 

Im playing this game since FM 12 and I was never disapointed like this year. Not gonna preorder next FM for sure like I always did. 

PS. Everything except ME is great.

Bournemouth - Southampton.pkm

Edited March 10, 2020 by Bobek

[AEJ]

I am very meticulous when it comes down to FM. I like doing every single thing possible, which includes organizing set pieces.

Being a small club led me to being more defensive. And I can say that my team defends really well from normal play. So well that from the last 20 goals that I conceded, 20 came from set pieces

Corners are nerve wracking. And even tought I tried to stop them, the set pieces goals kept coming. It's like the game can't make my opponents score from normal (central) play and, being a small club, the game needs me to conced a few times. And the way is trough set pieces

I just uninstalled the game. I stopped playing in january, waiting for the last update. And now I am out. I tried, but it's not for me. FM 19 and 20 will make me wait for the march update of FM21, after a close read of this forum, of course

 

[kiwityke1983]

5 hours ago, WelshMourinho said:

@Zemahh, that's exactly what I have done, and the results speak for themselves.

My Stoke side conceded just 1 corner in 46 league games last season, with that goal coming on the 44th match day. We conceded 2 from IFKs, and 0 from DFKs.

We also romped our way to about 13 corner goals, so in that sense I do think set pieces may still be an issue. You can 100% stop conceding set pieces, I've seen it myself. The AI, however, can't.

Tbf I've also found I've got my AMC doing incredibly well. 8 games into the Premier League season where we're predicted to finish 17th and he's got a 7.59 average rating, and we sit in 3rd. 

This ME is wonky, and the attacking play does lack, but you can absolutely work your way around that. 

Working your way around it isn't particularly fun and just highlights exactly how wonky the ME is.

A 5-3-2 with geggenpressing will see you win 80% of your games with any side and no transfers. 

All the people defending the ME are IMO basically pointing out exactly what is wrong with the ME. The fact you have to "work around" the MEs flaws surely points out its an awful ME. 

I should be trying to work out tactical flaws not ME flaws. 

[bitzu_rock]

On opponent instructions is the closing down option replaced by pressing ? What do i select if i want to close down an opposite player ? Thanks!

Edited March 10, 2020 by bitzu_rock

[Zemahh]

5 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I should be trying to work out tactical flaws not ME flaws.

Well, set pieces are an important part of your tactic. While I agree they can be very tedious, you simply can't expect not to have issues if you leave everything on default, because sorting them out isn't "particularly fun". It makes no sense to demand your short winger to win all the headers or your defenders with poor concentration and marking to not make mistakes during their man marking tasks. In a game that prides itself as the most realistic football simulator, you will, and should be punished for such mistakes.

That's not to say this year's match engine doesn't have issues, but it feels like it became popular to trash it left and right, while at the same time you refuse to put in any effort. Everything is a "match engine flaw" all of a sudden. I don't want to be rude, but with the amount of poor tactics and dumb questions posted on this forum, I somehow struggle to believe everyone is suddenly a master tactician, who could only struggle if the match engine was "broken".

[kiwityke1983]

2 hours ago, Zemahh said:

Well, set pieces are an important part of your tactic. While I agree they can be very tedious, you simply can't expect not to have issues if you leave everything on default, because sorting them out isn't "particularly fun". It makes no sense to demand your short winger to win all the headers or your defenders with poor concentration and marking to not make mistakes during their man marking tasks. In a game that prides itself as the most realistic football simulator, you will, and should be punished for such mistakes.

That's not to say this year's match engine doesn't have issues, but it feels like it became popular to trash it left and right, while at the same time you refuse to put in any effort. Everything is a "match engine flaw" all of a sudden. I don't want to be rude, but with the amount of poor tactics and dumb questions posted on this forum, I somehow struggle to believe everyone is suddenly a master tactician, who could only struggle if the match engine was "broken".

I never said I wouldn't sort them out! 

I do. 

But guess what the AI can't.

So it's essentially exploiting the awful ME to give me a massive advantage over AI teams. 

You've yet again in trying to defend it pointed out exactly why it's so so broken. 

[Vlowman]

On 09/03/2020 at 11:08, duesouth said:

Now, with FM Touch and full fat FM there are already two modes essentially.  Perhaps it is guiding those who want to use exploit tactics to FM Touch (being able to use custom databases with this product would become an essential part of this solution) and those who use their own maybe logical/sensible tactics to full fat FM.

No thanks. I'd like Touch to become fun again, just as much as others would like full fat to return to former glories.

[Zool]

I must admit from actually enjoying this  game  and playing  with all the different formations , i would not normally try I had to put  the game down  and uninstalled . like other people have  said don't add features that  takes time away (or even conflicts) in from working on the ME ! been a massive fan for this franchise for years,  This editon and with all the  hard working  people  taking time to reports the bugs etc IN EVERY PATCH   is Big let down in my books..   very very disapointed in Si Games  ..  truly thought you were better then this  please dont turn into another  one of them cash cow  companys !

[st1p]

12 hours ago, AEJ said:

I am very meticulous when it comes down to FM. I like doing every single thing possible, which includes organizing set pieces.

Being a small club led me to being more defensive. And I can say that my team defends really well from normal play. So well that from the last 20 goals that I conceded, 20 came from set pieces

Corners are nerve wracking. And even tought I tried to stop them, the set pieces goals kept coming. It's like the game can't make my opponents score from normal (central) play and, being a small club, the game needs me to conced a few times. And the way is trough set pieces

I just uninstalled the game. I stopped playing in january, waiting for the last update. And now I am out. I tried, but it's not for me. FM 19 and 20 will make me wait for the march update of FM21, after a close read of this forum, of course

 

20 out of 20 goals? That is just insane.

[duff33]

5 hours ago, Zemahh said:

Well, set pieces are an important part of your tactic. While I agree they can be very tedious, you simply can't expect not to have issues if you leave everything on default, because sorting them out isn't "particularly fun".

Whilst I don't disagree with the jist of what you're saying, you've also made the counter point in the same post - it's tedious trying to figure out set pieces if you're a more casual player; especially as, following the Winter Update, it seems borderline essential that you do, lest you be doomed to failure.

It's not an area I've really played around with much before, the ratio of goals scored/conceded was 'fine' (for/to me) using the defaults previously; now? Yeesh. In the last game played, two of Torino's three goals against me were from set pieces - lost 3-1. If it was a one off (or infrequent occurrence), fine, it happens in football eh. But it doesn't feel proportional, nor does it feel balanced as other chances that I'd have expected to go in, even within previous versions of FM20(!), go begging now.

I'll freely admit to being somewhat OCD about having the latest/correct squads, but more and more I am wishing for a way to uninstall the Winter Update and roll back to the public beta.

I tried again with my Genoa save today, but the same feelings just keep coming up as I watch nice build up play fizzle out in the final third over and over, with underperforming/nerfed forwards.

Edited March 10, 2020 by duff33
Additional comment.

[Zool]

i reverted back to football manager  2014  with the  brighter  ball,  bigger ball and  pitch mods  now thats a polished  game  ! we all have personal tastes   favourite versions !!    im hoping  this will be a shake  up  for  si games  surley to god  Miles is  not happy with this version even watford  play better football then this me 

[duff33]

Giving it one more go with Lyon, see if a fresh save gives me new perspective.

[autohoratio]

I've been thinking about PPMs/player traits over the past few days, and I believe that it would be beneficial for Player Instructions to expanded to include most PPMs, so that rather than having to train a player to (for example) Run With Ball Down Right Flank or Like To Beat Offside Trap, you could set it for the player's role in their Player Instructions, and a player who already has those PPMs, instead of attempting that more often, is merely better at doing so. Currently if a player has the "Tries Killer Balls Often" PPM, they'll literally try it whenever possible, but in my proposal a player with that PPM would only try it more often if it's set as a PI, but would be more competent at playing killer balls than if the same player didn't have the PPM. Being able to set the PPMs as PIs instead would also be beneficial to playing certain styles of football, like "Plays One-Twos" for possession football or breaking down a parked bus.

Perhaps PPMs could change from the current binary toggle to a 0-20 system like attributes, as well (or just a 1-5 scale if 1-20 is too precise) - a player with 1 set for Tries To Play Way Out Of Trouble would be worse at doing that and more prone to hoofing the ball upfield than a player with 5 or 20, a player with 1 for Attempts Overhead Kicks will struggle to hit them well, and a player with 1 for Tries Long Range Free Kicks will struggle à la CR7 even if they have good technical attributes

Thoughts?

[h3nrique_SEP]

A print from a Facebook group showing the quality of the ME 

The print isn't mine

Edited March 10, 2020 by h3nrique_SEP