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I tried the same formation from picture above, but did not get it all Positive. So I reached to this:

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Complete Forward and Ball Playing Def are set do Balanced. All other positions set to Positive. I'll test this with Barcelona, simulation 1 season.

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15 minutes ago, gpassosbh said:

I tried the same formation from picture above, but did not get it all Positive. So I reached to this:

spacer.png

Complete Forward and Ball Playing Def are set do Balanced. All other positions set to Positive. I'll test this with Barcelona, simulation 1 season.

Don't forget to turn on dribble less / more disciplined so they pass more.

From the all matches i've seen, it plays a lot like a cross between classic gegenpress and tiki-taka- and I've seen my AMR contribute in defensive right back halves.

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On 13/11/2020 at 06:52, NotSoSpecialOne said:

They will be on cautious as Focus doesn't affect mentality in 21.

Correct. I noticed Focus play doesn't affect mentalities anymore. But it has more affect in terms of how midfielders support play in area of focus. 

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On 26/05/2020 at 19:12, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

AecM5Gp.png

Great thread as usual - I've read it three or four times already.

I had a question on what you did if Joao Felix was injured? I assume you had a couple of players that could slot into the F9 role without too much complication. However did you ever change the Striker role in order to use different type of player there (ie. Embalo?)?

Edited by Luizinho
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Hi guys, 

Just done a post on the Caixa thread which kind of relates to this, but don't want to go off topic too much on there so thought it'd be best to pop this one in here.

I'm currently at Inter using a 4-3-3 (2 IWBs, DLP and 2 CMs), attempting to create that 2-3-5 shape in attack that we have seen be so effective.

My issue however, as you will see below, is the positioning of the 2 central midfield players. Firstly, that they rarely position themselves as high up the pitch as I would like. Secondly, this leads to them standing on the toes of my IWBs.

Here, we have secured good possession in midfield with our Deep Lying Playmaker, Eriksen (slightly odd choice I know but other midfielders have attacking PPMs). In this case, the positioning of the 2 IWBs (22 and 18) is fine. But my 2 CMs (6 and 23) are far too deep and therefore occupy the same space.

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This is about 15 seconds later. The ball had been across to the right and passed back inside to Eriksen (24), who moved it onto Asamoah (18). Once again, my CM (23) is literally in his way.

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As I'm sure you can figure out, the blue circles are the rough areas where I'd like to see my CMs move into when we are in this situation. Fiorentina's 4-1-4-1 is very clear in this moment. The idea with the 2-3-5 would be to get my CMs into the half spaces either side of their DM (5). That way, if their CMs choose to press my IWBs, this would open up gaps that we can exploit. Frustratingly, with my IWB and CM taking up the same space, the opposition CM can simply press them both in the same action.

The relevant parts of the tactic, which I've tried to keep as simple as possible, are as follows:
- Positive Team Mentality
- Shorter Passing, Pass Into Space, Work Ball Into Box, Focus Play Through Middle
- MCR/MCL = Central Midfield, Support with PIs of Get Further Forward and Move Into Channels.
- DR/DL = Inverted Wing Back, Support with no PIs.
- AMR/AML = Winger, Support with PIs of Get Further Forward.
- Both CMs in this clip have 'Gets Forward Whenever Possible' as PPMs, neither have 'Comes Deep To Get The Ball' or anything else which might discourage them from moving into the spaces highlighted.

Any help very much appreciated! 

Edit - Just to add, I know on the face of it the Mezzala role seems ideal - "a central player that likes to drift wide and operate in the half-spaces", but I'm slightly put off by the the prospect of it disrupting our defensive shape, as the description also states that "he does generally have less defensive responsibility." One of the big plus points of this tactic has been the defensive structure, keeping 14 clean sheets in 17 matches, I'd be worried about compromising that too much. 

Edited by ElJefe4
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What is your LOE and defensive line? Are they close to each other? Maybe try increasing the space between both.

Have you tried the mezzala/rpm instead?

Maybe try changing the IWBs to defend, if you haven't already.

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39 minutes ago, MadOnion said:

What is your LOE and defensive line? Are they close to each other? Maybe try increasing the space between both.

Have you tried the mezzala/rpm instead?

Maybe try changing the IWBs to defend, if you haven't already.

Both defensive line and LOE are higher. I hadn't actually considered altering these. I've always been worried that increasing the space would make it easier for teams to play through my midfield. Changing it in order to increase the spaces between the lines for myself offensively literally hadn't crossed my mind.

Haven't tried Mezzala or Roaming Playmaker yet, again slightly concerned that it'd compromise my defensive structure. I think I'd be more inclined to make this switch if we were dominating possession but despite being set up to do so, I'm not having as much of the ball as I'd expect. Probably averaging about 50%. Then again, given how few goals we're conceding it's likely that much of this opposition possession is fairly sterile and therefore more adventurous midfield roles might actually be plausible. This will probably be the first one I try.

Changing the IWBs is another one I hadn't considered as well. I'm happy with their positioning so wouldn't want to alter it too much, having them slightly more withdrawn would definitely prevent them getting too close to the CMs. I'm just not sure if it would help with pushing the CMs any closer to my wingers/striker. Again, definitely worth some thought. Thanks for the ideas!

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Can't say how having a Mezzala will change your defensive structure (if at all), but I wouldn't worry too much about that part of the role description. A player with the right attributes will contribute nicely to defense. It's like the Trequartista; a player with good work rate isn't going to be lazy or necessarily defensively neglible when played there.

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10 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

My issue however, as you will see below, is the positioning of the 2 central midfield players. Firstly, that they rarely position themselves as high up the pitch as I would like. Secondly, this leads to them standing on the toes of my IWBs.

I have faced a similar issue ever since FM19 I believe. However, I have noticed a slight improvement in their positioning and fluidity of their movements in 21. 

In my system I had two IWB's on Support with two Mezzala's in midfield. One on Attack and one on Support, with two Wingers on Support to provide width and stretch the field. However, I also saw the issues you are facing, albeit in certain moments such as at kick-off, or when we had possession quite deep in our half. Once we reached the final third there was decent (not excellent) spacing between them. Often I would find the Mezzala's pushing up next to the F9 creating that 2-3-5 shape. 

For example bellow, I have the same issue with my no. 3 and no. 16 (IWB and Mez on Support) occupying the same space. But on the other flank, my Mez on Attack (49) is exactly where I want him to be - between the lines in that 'inside high' position with the IWB on that side 'inside low' and the Winger 'wide'. It's not perfect, but it results in an easy switch of play to either my 49 or 36 as we have a clear 3 v 2 on that side.

1706057402_Screenshot2020-11-19at09_34_14.thumb.png.034aad7a6103209ae0a6f6a74749d1d6.png

However, as I mentioned when we are in the final third, both Mezalla's are spaced quite nicely apart from their respective IWB. In this image my 16 - the Mez(S) - is quite high and occupies the opposition full back, leaving my 17 free. He then plays him in to score. 

Btw - I found instructing the team to play Wider helped quite a lot in achieving this. Coupled with 'Focus Play through the Middle' to ensure we weren't always playing through the wings. 

469771368_Screenshot2020-11-19at09_30_03.png.a1a791b68e49461db2339b9329604ce0.png

Admittedly it is not perfect, and I have since reverted back to a system similar to O-zil's with CWB's and IF's because it occasionally felt a bit stale in attack. However, it controlled games really well - easily having over 60% possession in most games. FYI I am managing Benfica where my team is obviously far superior to most that we face. 

Hopefully it shows that its (almost) possible to achieve the positioning you are after - in certain scenarios/areas of the pitch. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

How have people found the FM21 match engine now you've had a couple of weeks to get used to it? I haven't made the switch over yet. I've actually gone back to FM18 as I found the ME much more enjoyable. One thing that has really jumped out is the positioning of 'attacking' central midfield players in possession based systems.

VO2Js44.png

"Here's one I made earlier" - a few posts up I demonstrated how the positioning of my MCL/MCR was not as aggressive or adventurous as I'd like it to be, to the extent that they'd be standing on the toes of my inverted wing backs and utilising the space ahead of them. Below is a screenshot from an FM18 game with Lyon. Notice how Aouar is positioned is so much higher up the pitch in order to really that exploit that half space. The blue line shows the direction of the pass from Mendy (DL/IWB) to Aouar. The red circle is where I'd typically see my midfielders position themselves on FM20.

4CV4mmL.png

 

Really hope the FM21 match engine can get back to something like FM18 as far as the above is concerned. 

Edited by ElJefe4
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On 29/11/2020 at 01:40, ElJefe4 said:

Really hope the FM21 match engine can get back to something like FM18 as far as the above is concerned. 

It does. In FM21 a mezzala-attack/Central Midfielder usually take up much higher positions now - and they do it earlier. Often I see my attacking midfielder as high as the striker. In general I can recommend FM21, it's the best ME of all of them. Right now I am toying with turning a deep 4-1-4-1 into a 2-3-5ish in attack.

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6 hours ago, Gegenklaus said:

It does. In FM21 a mezzala-attack/Central Midfielder usually take up much higher positions now - and they do it earlier. Often I see my attacking midfielder as high as the striker. In general I can recommend FM21, it's the best ME of all of them. Right now I am toying with turning a deep 4-1-4-1 into a 2-3-5ish in attack.

I'd love to see how you get on with this. I've been brewing up a similar idea after getting more time in game

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Hey @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!, amazing thread. I'm also fascinated with Total Football, and always tended to implement such a style in my FM campaigns. 

Currently trying to implement the tactic you've shared above (I'm managing Arsenal), which is adaptation of your FM18 tactic on FM20. FM21 gives me another challenge, it's nearly impossible to switch the mentality of BPD's and DLP(De) to positive, they'll stay "Balanced" no matter what. I left SK on Defensive as well. Will see how it goes, but DLP (De) is still participating in the attacks, which is surprisingly. I added "Be more Expressive" option an saw an increase in goals. It's still pre-season, and I'll see how it works during the season.

It's obvious that I have some problems with Arsenal, such as the team is quite unbalanced. 

Also read your Caixa thread. Quite fascinating.

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  • 1 month later...

Adopting a total football philosophy strategy to my team recently promoted to La Liga
I hope I managed to stay and evolve my young hired players and reach the objectives

image.png.cd5509258e4799b8f40206de80a90cc9.png

image.png.50a6b07457c50615cd369f3d3a7f8476.png

 

Edited by Nick_CB
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6 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

Adopting a total football philosophy strategy to my team recently promoted to La Liga
I hope I managed to stay and evolve my young hired players and reach the objectives

image.png.cd5509258e4799b8f40206de80a90cc9.png

image.png.50a6b07457c50615cd369f3d3a7f8476.png

 


Nice to see Alex Pinto making an appearance in there. Is that the same one from Benfica? :D Squad looks very well rounded. Let us know how you go! :thup:

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5 horas atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:


Nice to see Alex Pinto making an appearance in there. Is that the same one from Benfica? :D Squad looks very well rounded. Let us know how you go! :thup:

It's the same Alex Pinto. It was a great coincidence haha

But I will sell him in the next window, it did not develop well and I have promising players who need more playing time

Tell me, do you find it interesting to keep or remove Pass Into Space when I need to be more "cautious" at the end of a match?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

It's the same Alex Pinto. It was a great coincidence haha

But I will sell him in the next window, it did not develop well and I have promising players who need more playing time

Tell me, do you find it interesting to keep or remove Pass Into Space when I need to be more "cautious" at the end of a match?


I am probably not the best person to ask.

Personally I do not, I keep playing the same way, but also I play with squads who have the quality to do so and the game is done and dusted in the vast majority of cases. My saves are often about creating a style of play, more than achieving results with an underdog.

I know you mentioned playing as a newly promoted side so it may well be a good idea, but I really cannot say that with much authority.

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@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Out of interest, in your initial system, why do you use IF on support with Get Further Forward selected, rather than using IF on Attack?

EDIT: Found the reasoning back in the thread :thup:

Edited by Luizinho
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43 minutes ago, yonko said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Do you play FM21 or are you still with FM18?


Still FM2018 buddy :lol: Reaching the point now where the old database is making the prospect of a new game more challenging, but interest in experimenting with the tactics creator and creating new styles of football remains strong. Maybe one day the FM creators will bring it more back in line with my interests. Fingers crossed!

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On 18/01/2021 at 00:59, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:


Still FM2018 buddy :lol: Reaching the point now where the old database is making the prospect of a new game more challenging, but interest in experimenting with the tactics creator and creating new styles of football remains strong. Maybe one day the FM creators will bring it more back in line with my interests. Fingers crossed!

Its a shame that you haven't given FM21 a try. I think your tactical ideas would translate really well in the new match engine.

 I was largely inspired by your Total Football threads before but couldn't really recreate Cruyff diamond in FM20. Well, now on FM21 this is the kind of gameplay that my Cruyff-inspired tactic is able to achieve. The possession and the number of chances created feel almost criminal. And its fun as hell. 

1580132962_vsSevilla.PNG.a44fc40d5ff9c08e9977de88b0f7dc29.PNG

Edited by crusadertsar
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20 minutes ago, alaugharne said:

Is there anywhere I can download the tactics on this thread to try / tweak for myself? You're clearly all very clever, and better at the game than me :)

No. Read through the thread for answers.

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