Total Football (Very Fluid)

[gpassosbh]

On 26/05/2020 at 15:12, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

 

 

Hello @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!,

Can you show me a picture of the other 2 formations,(Total 2-3-5 and Total WM) just for me to get a inspiration to try to reacreat a pack of Total tactics?

Thanks

[Southern Buddie]

If you were playing with a winger(or two) instead of an inside forward, would you make any changes to any of the other roles?

Also, if you didn’t have a player suited to playing the DLP(D) role, what other midfield set ups would you consider? 

[fmFutbolManager]

Following along. Great start as always!

Now, sorry to hijack, but it's a little concerning people are taking my calculator as gospel. It's meant as a guide, a view of all mentalities to save you flicking in and out of players. This is only applicable for FM20 (some roles are different in FM19) — if you do spot any errors, please contact me on here or through my site and I'll get them updated. I had to manually go through every player position and role along with each team mentality with various team instructions to get these values so it is possible I've made a mistake.  At last count there are just over 1,000 variables, which you can appreciate leaves room for error.

Still, it was easier than FM18 that's for sure, which had over 4,000 variables I had to manually input.

I've now updated this to take into consideration full-backs while over/underlapping and over/underlapping in conjunction with focussing play down the flanks (there's slight variance)

https://theresonlyoneball.com/2020/05/22/an-individual-player-mentality-calculator-for-football-manager-2020/

Sorry, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!, I didn't know where else to say this. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by fmFutbolManager

[Luizinho]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Those results are insane!

I had a question about the DLP in your system. It's great that he has all of the options ahead of him and against PSG that was very evident. However this was against a 4-4-2 when you have an extra man in midfield. What happens when the opposition have an AMC or are tight-marking your DLP out of the game? Do you change things if he's being shut down?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Luizinho

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

17 hours ago, fmFutbolManager said:

Following along. Great start as always!

Now, sorry to hijack, but it's a little concerning people are taking my calculator as gospel. It's meant as a guide, a view of all mentalities to save you flicking in and out of players. This is only applicable for FM20 (some roles are different in FM19) — if you do spot any errors, please contact me on here or through my site and I'll get them updated. I had to manually go through every player position and role along with each team mentality with various team instructions to get these values so it is possible I've made a mistake.  At last count there are just over 1,000 variables, which you can appreciate leaves room for error.

Still, it was easier than FM18 that's for sure, which had over 4,000 variables I had to manually input.

I've now updated this to take into consideration full-backs while over/underlapping and over/underlapping in conjunction with focussing play down the flanks (there's slight variance)

https://theresonlyoneball.com/2020/05/22/an-individual-player-mentality-calculator-for-football-manager-2020/

Sorry, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!, I didn't know where else to say this. 

No problem at all. Your mentality calculator is excellent and I would highly recommend it for anyone trying to navigate the FM 2020 tactics creator 

[Spiegel]

Another great thread - Will be following closely!

On 27/05/2020 at 10:10, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

My first observation would be that looking at the PIs the Inverted Winger and the Inside Forward are identical aside from mentality however there may be some hard-coded behaviour, as otherwise the change is utterly pointless.

Crossing aswell, I had to change to Inverted Winger on my game - otherwise they won't attempt to play the centre forward in and just spaff shots into the side netting...

[skyline72]

Couldnt load my saved game at all. Even the backups!

Got to start all over again.....

[Deego619]

My current setup:

I'd call this a 'lite underdog' version of the OP. My Kingstonian team are newly promoted to the PL and spend a measly £21M per annum on wages, a full 100% lower than the next lowest spenders in the PL, and a full £200m lower than the highest spenders. I'm not going to even try to play "Total Football" with this type of team. However, I am going to maintain the principles, so as my team grows over the years and settles in the PL, we can eventually evolve.

• The collective, free-flowing and attacking style of play.
• Complete - or 'Total' - footballers capable of playing it.

I picked "Balanced" because I want to limit my players' creative freedom, and ensure that they're not going overly high up the pitch with the D-Line. 

My mentality structure breaks down as as the following:

• GK - Defensive
• RB - Positive (Gets further forward)
• LB - Positive (Gets further forward)
• CB- Defensive
• CB - Defensive
• CDM - Defensive 
• RCM - Positive
• LCM - Positive (Gets further forward)
• AML/AMR - Positive
• ST - Attacking

So we remain compact in the area of the pitch that matters for us, the defensive trio, the flanks and the center of the park. The only weakness here is potentially isolating the striker, but I don't feel like the current ME is supportive of Strikers dropping deep at all, so I may as well tell him to just stay up there and let the team bring the ball to him.

I tell the team to stay disciplined and prioritize my tactics above their individual expression. Not min-max total football, but I don't trust my players' decision making abilities to make something out of nothing. In other words, I'm forcing them to be compact and maintain teamwork. 

So I guess you could call this Highly Structured if we were playing FM18.

However, the football at times is far from it:

Not bad for 900-1 outsiders.

Now obviously that's sped up somewhat, but you get my drift. This move actually started from the goalkeeper which I wasn't able to capture which makes it all the more sweet.

Edited May 29, 2020 by JDeeguain

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 28/05/2020 at 18:37, gpassosbh said:

Hello @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!,

Can you show me a picture of the other 2 formations,(Total 2-3-5 and Total WM) just for me to get a inspiration to try to reacreat a pack of Total tactics?

Thanks

The 2-3-5 is actually another 4-3-3 but I saved it as 2-3-5 as that's the attacking shape. I used this a lot in earlier seasons of the save, which you can read about in the Caixa thread.

We have an outstanding out-and-out Number 10 coming through the ranks so I did also put together more of a 4-2-4 shape to get the best out of him.

\

I'm going to put the W-M in spoiler tags because I don't want to spread misinformation.

 

Spoiler

The W-M is used as an option to play an extra man in attack when facing extremely deep opposition defensive blocks.

Those dominant in their respective leagues will know the struggle - particularly Portugal and France in my experience. Opponents will play 4-5-1 variants so deep that they have 10 players in their own half and only leave one striker forward who is extremely isolated.

My answer to this is to use Florentino Luis as a hybrid defender/holding midfielder alongside one other defender; thus allowing me to play another attacking player.

Usually something like this.

It's built on the positional play principle of having few at the back at possible, but as many as necessary.

I would not use this against anyone but sides playing one isolated centre forward and the rest deep.

We are extremely attacking and very open at the back. Nevertheless we do still have a DC-DM-DM triangle against a single opposition attacker.
 

..plus an extra man forward in attack.

You're obviously still going to concede chances, but I don't even really mind if the opposition score as we're going to outscore them.

Use with caution

 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 29/05/2020 at 19:31, JDeeguain said:

My current setup:

I'd call this a 'lite underdog' version of the OP. My Kingstonian team are newly promoted to the PL and spend a measly £21M per annum on wages, a full 100% lower than the next lowest spenders in the PL, and a full £200m lower than the highest spenders. I'm not going to even try to play "Total Football" with this type of team. However, I am going to maintain the principles, so as my team grows over the years and settles in the PL, we can eventually evolve.

• The collective, free-flowing and attacking style of play.
• Complete - or 'Total' - footballers capable of playing it.

I picked "Balanced" because I want to limit my players' creative freedom, and ensure that they're not going overly high up the pitch with the D-Line. 

My mentality structure breaks down as as the following:

• GK - Defensive
• RB - Positive (Gets further forward)
• LB - Positive (Gets further forward)
• CB- Defensive
• CB - Defensive
• CDM - Defensive 
• RCM - Positive
• LCM - Positive (Gets further forward)
• AML/AMR - Positive
• ST - Attacking

So we remain compact in the area of the pitch that matters for us, the defensive trio, the flanks and the center of the park. The only weakness here is potentially isolating the striker, but I don't feel like the current ME is supportive of Strikers dropping deep at all, so I may as well tell him to just stay up there and let the team bring the ball to him.

I tell the team to stay disciplined and prioritize my tactics above their individual expression. Not min-max total football, but I don't trust my players' decision making abilities to make something out of nothing. In other words, I'm forcing them to be compact and maintain teamwork. 

So I guess you could call this Highly Structured if we were playing FM18.

However, the football at times is far from it:

Not bad for 900-1 outsiders.

Now obviously that's sped up somewhat, but you get my drift. This move actually started from the goalkeeper which I wasn't able to capture which makes it all the more sweet.

 

On 27/05/2020 at 18:41, Akranion said:

Thank you for this post, this is my favourite style of play. I want to share how I translated to FM20.

 

 

All players on positive, besides F9 who is balanced. All the front 5 have Roam from position and the IWs have Get Further Forward. I'm playing Southampton first season and they don't have a great squad for this style of play but the addition of Ajer who is a very complete player and a great pivot, Almada and Vanheusden will help the team a lot,

My early results (Match against City was a surprise for me):

 

On 28/05/2020 at 16:24, nidhar.ram said:

I have created a very fluid possession based system in FM20 but in 4411 formation as it suits my players better. Below is the tactic.

I have deliberately positioned my wingers/ wide forwards at ML/MR position rather than AML/AMR. This is so that those players are more involved in the build-up play and also prevents the ball being moved to switch to flanks too early where they lack enough support.

As part of total football I still press high but not counterpress. Instead, forwards and wingers along with wingbacks compress space and my midfield is mainly positioned to stay close to opposition midfielders.

I have customized IW(S) on both flanks  so that one acts as a creator primarily while the other is scorer/creator.

The two roles I am not entirely sure are the MCL which is the DLP(D) and the AM(S).

Any suggestions on how those two roles can be set-up in this system will be really appreciated. Also please critic the overall tactic too.

Thank you for these posts; great to see people applying this to their own teams. Let me know how you go!

@nidhar.ram my suggestion would be Saul on the MCL deep-lying playmaker role as he's left footed and one of the best players for that role on the game. Watch a few games and see how it plays. The AM(S) is definitely a good option for Almada so don't worry about that. Saul and Koke are two of the most complete players on the game and one of the few combinations where I'd consider both being playmakers. Saul DLP(D) and Koke DLP(S) - you've basically got a 3-man midfield between two players.

 

[Robson 07]

On 26/05/2020 at 19:12, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Hello, and welcome to - what is very likely to be - my last tactics thread for the Football Manager community.

I think your contributions have been second to none over the last 3 or 4 years.  What I have always liked the most is both the way you engage with people and make your posts both generally, plus the messages within, so clear.  I can't recall an incident where your tone ever appeared condescending or it seemed as if you were talking in riddles.  Well played; hat off to you fella.  Carry on as long as you like.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Robson 07

[skyline72]

Found this interesting article about mentalities.

https://www.fmscout.com/a-mentality-analysis.html

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, Robson 07 said:

I think you contributions have been second to none over the last 3 or 4 years.  What I have always liked the most is both the way you engage with people and make your posts both generally, and the messages within, so clear.  I can't recall an incident where your tone ever appeared condescending or it seemed as if you were talking in riddles.  Well played; hat off to you fella.  Carry on as long as you like.

Thank you for the kind words, much appreciated 

 

1 hour ago, skyline72 said:

Found this interesting article about mentalities.

https://www.fmscout.com/a-mentality-analysis.html

I've just scanned it and this actually seems very good; miles ahead of the typical content for this type of website.

I'll read it properly after lunch.

If I was playing Football Manager 2020 I would be looking for combinations which give:

• Most of the team on Positive or Attacking
  • Not Very Attacking
• Compactness - ie. the same mentality - for the DR/L and AMR/L combination and the DC/DM/MCd combination.
• A midfield playmaker on Positive or Attacking.
• Flexibility for the "defensive unit" - whatever combination of DC/DM/MCd you use - to be positive, balanced, cautious, defensive depending on the capability of your team and desired style.

 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

2 hours ago, skyline72 said:

Found this interesting article about mentalities.

https://www.fmscout.com/a-mentality-analysis.html

Edit: just tagging @fmFutbolManager to make sure you see the link above as it may be useful for your mentality calculator.. 

OK so this should indeed be a 'go to' resource for anyone trying to navigate the Football Manager 2020 tactics creator. Thanks again for sharing.

Nothing new for those who have followed the Caixa Academy threat but it's nicely laid out all in one place.

Applying this to the style of play we are trying to create gives two options:

Which gives you:

                   Balanced
Positive                              Positive
           Positive        Positive
                   Positive
Positive   Positive        Positive   Positive
                   Positive

Or knock the mentality down to positive, switch to inside forwards and have the fullbacks overlap for:

Which gives you:
 

                   Balanced
Attacking                             Attacking
           Positive        Positive
                   Balanced
Attacking  Balanced        Balanced   Attacking
                   Balanced

Unfortunately you lose the mystique of the entire team playing the collective, attacking football but both should work pretty well 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[skyline72]

1 minute ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

OK so this should indeed be a 'go to' resource for anyone trying to navigate the Football Manager 2020 tactics creator. Thanks again for sharing.

No worries. Something for the community.

Was looking for training related stuff and chanced upon it.

[Deego619]

Pre-season is always my favourite part of FM. The squad building aspect of the game, scouting and trying to find the "perfect" player always keeps me coming back to this game even when the ME throws some ridiculous curve balls at you.

A total outlay of £48m has seen some comings and goings at Kingstonian:

However by far the most important signing is an extension to our loan of Spurs youngster Chris Naylor:

A two footed DLP with fantastic mentals to be the hub of my team. Hopefully we can sign him permanently next season.

I've upped the mentality to my tactic to "Positive" to represent a more aggressive approach to this season. I still don't trust my players' mentals across the squad to open up their creative freedom.

However, if the season opener is anything to go by, a 4-0 demolition away at Derby, then we're in for a fun season.

If Naylor had scored that cut back this would be my favourite FM goal of all time. But FM doesn't like nice things sometimes.

Edited May 31, 2020 by JDeeguain

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

48 minutes ago, JDeeguain said:

Pre-season is always my favourite part of FM. The squad building aspect of the game, scouting and trying to find the "perfect" player always keeps me coming back to this game even when the ME throws some ridiculous curve balls at you.

A total outlay of £48m has seen some comings and goings at Kingstonian:

However by far the most important signing is an extension to our loan of Spurs youngster Chris Naylor:

A two footed DLP with fantastic mentals to be the hub of my team. Hopefully we can sign him permanently next season.

I've upped the mentality to my tactic to "Positive" to represent a more aggressive approach to this season. I still don't trust my players' mentals across the squad to open up their creative freedom.

However, if the season opener is anything to go by, a 4-0 demolition away at Derby, then we're in for a fun season.

If Naylor had scored that cut back this would be my favourite FM goal of all time. But FM doesn't like nice things sometimes.

Brilliant. Nice work 

[camoulton21]

If I've understood correctly, O-zil has used the Very Fluid team shape to give his players the creative freedom to play a free-flowing style of play. How would you replicate this in the latest editions of FM? I want to base a tactic around a less successful Total Football inspired Arsene Wenger team, the post Invincibles Cesc Fabregas team which would obviously mean giving my team the freedom to improvise, move and express themselves

[carloshcorbalan]

Hello...

Very good article....

Good that nidhar.ram, upload link of your tactic 4411 to see individual instructions and be able to practice it ...

Edited May 31, 2020 by carloshcorbalan

[JEinchy]

42 minutes ago, camoulton21 said:

If I've understood correctly, O-zil has used the Very Fluid team shape to give his players the creative freedom to play a free-flowing style of play. How would you replicate this in the latest editions of FM? I want to base a tactic around a less successful Total Football inspired Arsene Wenger team, the post Invincibles Cesc Fabregas team which would obviously mean giving my team the freedom to improvise, move and express themselves

To focus on those three traits you mentioned, the Be More Expressive TI would be a good start, imo. Be More Expressive increases creative freedom by an unknown amount and also encourages more roaming. 

Apart from that, I'd look to use as many roaming roles as possible, though which ones would depend on if you're going for the 2008 last hoorah of the 4-4-2 or the post-2009 4-2-3-1.

So for 4-4-2 maybe you'd have a Roaming Playmaker, a Wide Playmaker, a Wide Midfielder who can roam from position, a Complete Forward and a Deep-Lying Forward. This, I think, gives you an approximation of the roles Fabregas, Rosicky, Hleb, Adebayor and Van Persie played respectively.  

4-2-3-1 is trickier. The AM would need to be very traits driven to get the same movement of Fabregas. The AML would probably be an AP(S) with roaming. AMR would be a Winger or Inside Forward on attack.  

In both cases you're looking for a lot of support roles. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by JEinchy

[yonko]

16 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Edit: just tagging @fmFutbolManager to make sure you see the link above as it may be useful for your mentality calculator.. 

OK so this should indeed be a 'go to' resource for anyone trying to navigate the Football Manager 2020 tactics creator. Thanks again for sharing.

Nothing new for those who have followed the Caixa Academy threat but it's nicely laid out all in one place.

Applying this to the style of play we are trying to create gives two options:

Which gives you:

                   Balanced
Positive                              Positive
           Positive        Positive
                   Positive
Positive   Positive        Positive   Positive
                   Positive

Or knock the mentality down to positive, switch to inside forwards and have the fullbacks overlap for:

Which gives you:
 

                   Balanced
Attacking                             Attacking
           Positive        Positive
                   Balanced
Attacking  Balanced        Balanced   Attacking
                   Balanced

Unfortunately you lose the mystique of the entire team playing the collective, attacking football but both should work pretty well 

 

This post is why I hope you continue to contribute and perhaps start playing more recent editions of FM.

On my current save, I started using IF-S on both sides with CWB-S and Overlapping instructions to give me Attacking Player Mentalities on both flanks. 

I have used different combinations of roles in midfield. And I have tried to tweak my tactic slightly in each of the 4 seasons so far. Currently I'm using the following in my 4th season:

SK-S, 2x CWB-S, 2x BPD-D, DM-D, AP-S (MCR), MEZ-S (MCL), IW-S (AMR), IF-S (AML), F9-S

Attacking Mentality

Much Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defense, Slightly Lower Tempo, Dribble Less, Work Ball Into Box

Counter Press, Hold Positions

Higher D-Line, Higher LOE, Extremely Urgent Pressing, Offside Trap

This gives me:

                                        Balanced

Very Attacking                                                    Positive

                           Positive                  Positive 

                                       Balanced

Positive          Balanced             Balanced       Positive

 

The only PIs used are on the F9 - Roam From Position and Move Into Channels.  

I have gone for a little overload tactic ala Pep Guardiola and Barca 2010-11 season. I'm looking to possess the ball and create from the right side with the AP and IW, while releasing the left side and looking for goals from the IF and MEZ.

I've been considering to try WB-D behind the IF with Overlap Left TI to give me Positive + Attacking mentality there. This might replicate more how Abidal and Villa played on the left side. The CWB on the right naturally overlaps the IW anyway so no additional overlap instruction needed there, especially if the player has "Gets Forward" PPM. 

[bdixon]

Is there a particular set of PPM's you train for each role? I see a lot of plays one-twos

[AndersAas]

19 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Edit: just tagging @fmFutbolManager to make sure you see the link above as it may be useful for your mentality calculator.. 

OK so this should indeed be a 'go to' resource for anyone trying to navigate the Football Manager 2020 tactics creator. Thanks again for sharing.

Nothing new for those who have followed the Caixa Academy threat but it's nicely laid out all in one place.

Applying this to the style of play we are trying to create gives two options:

Which gives you:

                   Balanced
Positive                              Positive
           Positive        Positive
                   Positive
Positive   Positive        Positive   Positive
                   Positive

Or knock the mentality down to positive, switch to inside forwards and have the fullbacks overlap for:

Which gives you:
 

                   Balanced
Attacking                             Attacking
           Positive        Positive
                   Balanced
Attacking  Balanced        Balanced   Attacking
                   Balanced

Unfortunately you lose the mystique of the entire team playing the collective, attacking football but both should work pretty well 

 

I did not think it was possible, but you have again outdone yourself with this thread @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!!
I don`t think you can underestimate what impact you have on so many of us, based on all the well deserved feedback and appreciation you get, I hope you understand

Is this the TI you wolud use if you set this up in FM20? I would imagine much shorter passing would be an option emulating retain possession?
Distrubte to cbs? Get further forward on the IW/IF?

Can I also ask you how you would best set-up the 3-4-3 diamond on FM20?

[gpassosbh]

I´m trying to understanding this mentality better. For this tactic, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! was able to have everyone with positive mentality. In FM20, we got everyone but F9 in positive. But for another formation, what is the best composition? Trying to get everyone in one mentality, but if it´s not posible, what is the best? Defender in Balance/Positive, Midfilder in positive/attacking and attackers in positive/attacking? This make sense?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

9 minutes ago, gpassosbh said:

I´m trying to understanding this mentality better. For this tactic, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! was able to have everyone with positive mentality. In FM20, we got everyone but F9 in positive. But for another formation, what is the best composition? Trying to get everyone in one mentality, but if it´s not posible, what is the best? Defender in Balance/Positive, Midfilder in positive/attacking and attackers in positive/attacking? This make sense?

I am playing Football Manager 2018 so can see the exact mentality of my players. The breakdown is:
 

        12
14              14
    14      14
        14
14  14      14  14
        14

Those trying to implement this in FM2020 cannot see exact mentalities, instead they have labels; balanced, positive, attacking etc.

The problem is that these are subjective. Is 12 balanced or positive? Is 14 positive or attacking?

The closest I can see to an FM2020 recreation is this.

Which gives..
 

                 Balanced
Positive                          Positive
         Positive        Positive
                 Positive
Positive Positive        Positive Positive
                 Positive

I am pretty confident this would work pretty well; although would personally interpret 12 as positive and 14 as attacking so I do have a concern this would be slightly less attacking than my version.

In an ideal world I would want..

 

                    Positive
Attacking                               Attacking
          Attacking           Attacking
                    Attacking
Attacking Attacking           Attacking Attacking
                    Attacking

..but this does not seem to be possible.

The principles described in the opening post can be applied to any formation you like.

[crusadertsar]

3 hours ago, gpassosbh said:

I´m trying to understanding this mentality better. For this tactic, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! was able to have everyone with positive mentality. In FM20, we got everyone but F9 in positive. But for another formation, what is the best composition? Trying to get everyone in one mentality, but if it´s not posible, what is the best? Defender in Balance/Positive, Midfilder in positive/attacking and attackers in positive/attacking? This make sense?

The only way to have everyone on same mentality (eg. Positive) in FM20 is by using Strikerless tactic and specific team instructions like overlap or focus through the middle. 

[gpassosbh]

11 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

The only way to have everyone on same mentality (eg. Positive) in FM20 is by using Strikerless tactic and specific team instructions like overlap or focus through the middle. 

Yes. I´ll try Strikerless formations along with O-Zil post. Right now I´m reading Strikerless site to give me some ideas.

[wixxi]

On 27/05/2020 at 15:22, skyline72 said:

Ahhh.

I used to think that just the duties matters. 

Learning new stuff yet again. 

I think the best way to think about it is that individual mentality is the main factor within a tactic, and that team mentality, duty, TIs etc. are what help to influence this in certain directions e.g. using overlap to increase your fullback's individual mentality.

[gpassosbh]

Has anyone here managed to put together a tactic with everyone with an attack mentality in FM 20?

[anxiousAnarchist]

Hey Ozil! Congrats on retirement I guess, you'll be sorely missed on the forums. You've been a great inspiration to me and you've always made your posts fun and engaging to read, can't thank you enough.

I hope you won't mind me jumping onto the question pile though. Now I know from following Caixa that you zigged and zagged a bit in the tactical evolution of that save. If you were to try to integrate this total system over the course of say, 3 seasons, or so for an average club, what would you think the key adjustments were (in the FM18 tactic editor).  I'd want to bring it down to fluid and probably switch those CWBs to Wingbacks. And make sure the CBs are playing safe, no risky passing business for a mid-table club. In my head I always try to get the whole starting 11 at 13-14 First touch, passing, and technique before going too attacking. I'd be curious if you had any other ideas though.

[Djuicer]

6 hours ago, gpassosbh said:

Has anyone here managed to put together a tactic with everyone with an attack mentality in FM 20?

Challange accepted

edit: Im not sure about the striker position though, If it can be done?

Its not possible to get all on attack. On balanced you can get the front 5 as attack by simply putting them on it. The DM with focus play gets positive and the keeper can be either positive on support or very attacking on attack. Remove focus play and he gets attack, but the dm only gets balanced then. Fullbacks get positive on attack, with overlap they get attacking but wide players then just get positive. The central attacker is VA with higher team mentalities on attack, still he can't get over balanced on support duties.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Djuicer

[Enzo_Francescoli]

7 hours ago, gpassosbh said:

Has anyone here managed to put together a tactic with everyone with an attack mentality in FM 20?

Technically, it is possible. Good luck using that, though.

 

[skyline72]

32 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Technically, it is possible. Good luck using that, though.

 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

Well, once I applied the gegenpress preset to that tactic above, it performed much better than it should have in a million years. I simulated half a season with Atletico Madrid and these are the results:

 

Granted, there are a few games when our defending kind of collapsed, but...

BUT.. this tactic beat Real Madrid

BUT.. this tactic finished 1st in the CL group

BUT.. this tactic sits at 4th in La Liga only 9 points behind the first (real life Atletico is at 6th)

 

The lesson here is Everything Works Better If You Gegenpress. Which is Exhibit A why this current match engine is need of a complete revision startover from scratch.

Edit:

Here's the final one. Fullbacks are told to sit narrow. I'm sure that with some more tweaking, it could perform even more admirably. Something I will not be testing further.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Enzo_Francescoli

[cm4lane]

Why have you chosen lower line of engagement in your fm20 version

[josel15]

40 minutes ago, cm4lane said:

Why have you chosen lower line of engagement in your fm20 version

To create a more compact defense.

[skyline72]

1 hour ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Well, once I applied the gegenpress preset to that tactic above, it performed much better than it should have in a million years. I simulated half a season with Atletico Madrid and these are the results:

 

Granted, there are a few games when our defending kind of collapsed, but...

BUT.. this tactic beat Real Madrid

BUT.. this tactic finished 1st in the CL group

BUT.. this tactic sits at 4th in La Liga only 9 points behind the first (real life Atletico is at 6th)

 

The lesson here is Everything Works Better If You Gegenpress. Which is Exhibit A why this current match engine is need of a complete revision startover from scratch.

Edit:

Here's the final one. Fullbacks are told to sit narrow. I'm sure that with some more tweaking, it could perform even more admirably. Something I will not be testing further.

This tactic need the correct players for it to show its magic. Not just plug and play. 

[TheGoodRebel]

Love this thread. It's a real shame the tactics creator doesn't allow for quite the same customisation in FM20. No idea why they have changed it.

[Deego619]

3 hours ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Well, once I applied the gegenpress preset to that tactic above, it performed much better than it should have in a million years. I simulated half a season with Atletico Madrid and these are the results:

 

Granted, there are a few games when our defending kind of collapsed, but...

BUT.. this tactic beat Real Madrid

BUT.. this tactic finished 1st in the CL group

BUT.. this tactic sits at 4th in La Liga only 9 points behind the first (real life Atletico is at 6th)

 

The lesson here is Everything Works Better If You Gegenpress. Which is Exhibit A why this current match engine is need of a complete revision startover from scratch.

Edit:

Here's the final one. Fullbacks are told to sit narrow. I'm sure that with some more tweaking, it could perform even more admirably. Something I will not be testing further.

This is actually insane. 

Not at all should a tactic like this be feasible in FM.

This thread is showing some gaping holes in the tactics interface, are there any go-to devs on here that we can loop in to get their feedback? 

[gpassosbh]

So these are the tactics I'll try to use in a save (did not decided the team yet, but I'm thinking in Benfica, Ajax or Man Utd). I got everyone on Positive Mentality, but to get this, I'll have to go Strikerless (thanks to Guido and his site Strikerless for the ideas).

For Home Games and Away, I'll use this one:

For Home Games and Team I know I can beat, I'll go with this one:

And for Away Games, European Games or when I was underdog, I'll use this one:

 

So, let me know your thoughts on the formations, and suggestions.

Thanks

[skyline72]

Wonderful team goal.

 

 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

7 hours ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Well, once I applied the gegenpress preset to that tactic above, it performed much better than it should have in a million years. I simulated half a season with Atletico Madrid and these are the results:

 

Granted, there are a few games when our defending kind of collapsed, but...

BUT.. this tactic beat Real Madrid

BUT.. this tactic finished 1st in the CL group

BUT.. this tactic sits at 4th in La Liga only 9 points behind the first (real life Atletico is at 6th)

 

The lesson here is Everything Works Better If You Gegenpress. Which is Exhibit A why this current match engine is need of a complete revision startover from scratch.

Edit:

Here's the final one. Fullbacks are told to sit narrow. I'm sure that with some more tweaking, it could perform even more admirably. Something I will not be testing further.

 

39 minutes ago, gpassosbh said:

So these are the tactics I'll try to use in a save (did not decided the team yet, but I'm thinking in Benfica, Ajax or Man Utd). I got everyone on Positive Mentality, but to get this, I'll have to go Strikerless (thanks to Guido and his site Strikerless for the ideas).

For Home Games and Away, I'll use this one:

For Home Games and Team I know I can beat, I'll go with this one:

And for Away Games, European Games or when I was underdog, I'll use this one:

 

So, let me know your thoughts on the formations, and suggestions.

Thanks

What on earth has happened to this thread?! 

[gpassosbh]

1 minute ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

What on earth has happened to this thread?! 

You gave us the idea, now we are here...

[daveb653]

46 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Wonderful team goal.

 

 

Nice Goal  

Is this using the 4-1-2-3 posted earlier in this thread?

 

[carloshcorbalan]

 Enzo_Francescoli,  muy bueno lo tuyo....

Subí enlace para probar la tactica tal cual la armaste....   

[Garrlor]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! You started it mate! Everyone is looking at your ideas, trying to implement them into FM20 and discovering that the ME is essentially broken if you play a certain way.

[yonko]

4 hours ago, skyline72 said:

Wonderful team goal.

 

 

Indeed. What setup are you using here?

 

I can't post a video but I have a few screenshots from my 4th season and the tactic I used. 

 

Only PIs are:

F9 - roam from position and move into channels

Mez - take more risks

This season I didn't change or tweak anything in terms of roles or duties. 

 

 

GK - Ter Stegen / Inaki Pena

DR - Barella (retrained) / Sergi Roberto

DL - Grimaldo / Miranda

CD - Ruben Dias / Todibo / Lenglet

DM - Camavinga / Oriol Busquets 

MCR - De Jong / Arthur / Puig

MCL - Puig / Moriba / Pedri 

AMR - Ansu Fati / Arigotti (regen) / Pedri

AML - Mbappe / Sterling / Pedri 

ST - Almada / Messi / Mbappe 

 

 

[skyline72]

@daveb653 @yonko

Its either 4123 or 4231. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

12 hours ago, yonko said:

GK - Ter Stegen / Inaki Pena

DR - Barella (retrained) / Sergi Roberto

DL - Grimaldo / Miranda

CD - Ruben Dias / Todibo / Lenglet

DM - Camavinga / Oriol Busquets 

MCR - De Jong / Arthur / Puig

MCL - Puig / Moriba / Pedri 

AMR - Ansu Fati / Arigotti (regen) / Pedri

AML - Mbappe / Sterling / Pedri 

ST - Almada / Messi / Mbappe 

What a team that is 

[daveb653]

11 hours ago, skyline72 said:

@daveb653 @yonko

Its either 4123 or 4231. 

Well, which is it?